It’s New Tyre Time Again… 718 GT4 - Page 2 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Eighteen months and seven thousand miles later I need new rears. I know the stock answer is Michelin Pilot Sport 4S but I have never been a huge fan. Pretty decent in the dry, iffy in the wet and as I don’t drive particularly drive hard or use the car that often, I am slightly disappointed in the longevity of the Michelins. I prefer to have the same brand all round and I fitted new fronts last summer but what other brands are other people using and what is their real world experience? The car will never see a track, but will get the occasional spirited drive on a mountain road. I’m hearing good reports about the new Continentals and I have always been a fan of Dunlops on my other cars…..

Continental Sport 7 is a very good tyre BUT it has a firmer sidewall than the PS4S. Good for some aspects if you are pushing it, but not great for ride quality (which, as you know, is firm in a GT4 anyway). Also they don't seem to look as wide as the PS4S for some reason (size for size) with some people saying they look a bit stretched. Perhaps it's the PS4S rim protector that makes them look different.

Back in my Honda days, the Type R lads always came down to one of two tyres, the PS4 (you've already ruled these out) or the Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric. Perhaps these are more to your liking?

Vsix and Vtec said: Back in my Honda days, the Type R lads always came down to one of two tyres, the PS4 (you've already ruled these out) or the Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric. Perhaps these are more to your liking? On my 992 GTS I have the factory fitted Good Year Eagle F1 Asymmetric and on my 981 Cayman I have Michelin Pilot Sport 4S. Happy with both sets of tyres. Different cars with different power and torque, so can't really do a like for like comparison. But overall would recommend either.

Discombobulate said: Continental Sport 7 is a very good tyre BUT it has a firmer sidewall than the PS4S. Good for some aspects if you are pushing it, but not great for ride quality (which, as you know, is firm in a GT4 anyway). Also they don't seem to look as wide as the PS4S for some reason (size for size) with some people saying they look a bit stretched. Perhaps it's the PS4S rim protector that makes them look different. i've got Conti Sport Contact 7 on my GTS and really rate them.

TrevorHill said: Eighteen months and seven thousand miles later I need new rears. I know the stock answer is Michelin Pilot Sport 4S but I have never been a huge fan. Pretty decent in the dry, iffy in the wet and as I don’t drive particularly drive hard or use the car that often, I am slightly disappointed in the longevity of the Michelins. I prefer to have the same brand all round and I fitted new fronts last summer but what other brands are other people using and what is their real world experience? The car will never see a track, but will get the occasional spirited drive on a mountain road. I’m hearing good reports about the new Continentals and I have always been a fan of Dunlops on my other cars….. Where do you live and do you drive it in the winter? PS4S good tyre but one criticism is that it has a softer sidewall so isn’t as responsive as some other tyres.

You can’t go wrong with Continentals a great tire and well priced

The only reason I didn't try Contisport 7's as wets on my 991.2 GT3RS was that I couldn't get them N rated ... two choices of N rating for the rear but no front. Hence I fitted PS4S ... but now I understand that N rating is no longer required. The reviews on the Continentals have been very good and the PS4S is now quite an old tyre. Replaced by the PSS5 ??

athomp04 said: You can’t go wrong with Continentals a great tire and well priced I’m leaning towards the Continentals, but I don’t like having different brands on either axle. There is only about 3k miles on the fronts. (PS4S) I’ll have a chat with my local supplier, he’s very competitive on pricing and I’ve been using him for over thirty years. I may just wait until the fronts need replacing and change all four to Continentals.

ChrisW. said: but now I understand that N rating is no longer required. Is this official? Where has that been communicated?

I read it on here so it must be true ... that's why I say "I understand" ... ask your OPC ??

ChrisW. said: The only reason I didn't try Contisport 7's as wets on my 991.2 GT3RS was that I couldn't get them N rated ... two choices of N rating for the rear but no front. Hence I fitted PS4S ... but now I understand that N rating is no longer required. The reviews on the Continentals have been very good and the PS4S is now quite an old tyre. Replaced by the PSS5 ?? I have read that the Conti 7's are not very durable hence making them an expensive overall option in practice. I'd like to try them, but not if they only last 1/2 the mileage. They might grip better from new, but if they wear significantly faster than the PS4S's then that initial advantage in the wet will be less pronounced as the tread depth - important in clearing water- will reduce more quickly to a less effective depth. If you get my drift.. I understand the PSS5 is not aimed at the enthusiastic driver market, but am probably wrong? The N rating is not now a requirement for the Porsche warranty, but they do have a different construction and rubber compound I read somewhere. They also seem to as cheap or cheaper than standard PS4S's whenever I have purchased them.

Not the same car but Conti 7's lasted about 2000 miles on the back of my old M2, as opposed to nearly double on Michi 4S's. Im surprised you dont get on with the Michelins especially as you state you're not a hard driver, they are very progressive when pushed hard and have good grip all round. The Contis are superb in the wet but the wear for me was brutal. I tried a few others as well, but for all around talent and wear 4S hard to beat. Maybe the 5S though doesn't seem to be much availability. Edited by hooch500 on Thursday 6th March 12:25

I went off Contis at 5's. 2's and 3's were excellent and lasted 25k miles or so but 5's wore out in under 10k. GY F1 A2's split all round both front sidewalls. Goodbye to Goodyear. Pirelli PZero N0's cracked in tread and sidewall. No more of those. On PS4S currently and although stiffer sidewall than the previous F1 A2s they've given me no issues whatsoever and are down to 4.5-5mm at 18k. If you don't drive hard there's something wrong with your car to wear yours out in 7k. Edited by DJMC on Sunday 9th March 22:39

DJMC said: I went off Contis at 5's. 2's and 3's were excellent and lasted 25k miles or so but 5's wore out in under 10k. GY F1 A2's split all round both front sidewalls. Goodbye to Goodyear. Pirelli PZero N0's cracked in tread and sidewall. No more of those. On PS4S currently and although stiffer sidewall than the previous F1 A2s they've given me no issues whatsoever and are down to 4.5-5mm at 18k. If you don't drive hard there's something wrong with your car to wear yours out in 7k. Edited by DJMC on Sunday 9th March 22:39 Interesting. My 'previously enjoyed' base model Cayman 2.9 came on Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 5s which developed large bulges in the sidewall in one front and one rear. I posted about it on PH but there were no comments. I shall be keeping a very close eye on them.

CanAm said: Interesting. My 'previously enjoyed' base model Cayman 2.9 came on Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 5s which developed large bulges in the sidewall in one front and one rear. I posted about it on PH but there were no comments. Unfortunately, that’s normally caused by sidewall bruising from potholes

Koln-RS said: CanAm said: Interesting. My 'previously enjoyed' base model Cayman 2.9 came on Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 5s which developed large bulges in the sidewall in one front and one rear. I posted about it on PH but there were no comments. Unfortunately, that’s normally caused by sidewall bruising from potholes Thanks for your reply. The Cayman has covered far less mileage in my hands than all of the other cars in my long driving history and is the only one to have ever suffered this problem; plus I am even more careful to avoid potholes while driving it. Though where I live the roads are far worse these days than ever before.

DJMC said: On PS4S currently and although stiffer sidewall than the previous F1 A2s they've given me no issues whatsoever and are down to 4.5-5mm at 18k. If you don't drive hard there's something wrong with your car to wear yours out in 7k. Edited by DJMC on Sunday 9th March 22:39 I got 8k from the last set of rears and I expect to get 15/16k from the fronts. I’m at 2mm on the current rears. I find it incredible that anyone is getting 18k on a set of PS4S and still on 5mm. I’d expect that on my Moms Micra, not on a Porsche or any performance car for that matter.

On my 991.2 GTS I fitted a full set of PS4S's as the internet said they are way better than the Pirelli PZero's. I had two previous sets of the Pzero's with no complaints. Good in the wet, the the dry and lasted well enough. The PS4S's were frankly terrible. Softer side walls led to a very high wear rate (two Euro trips) with the rears showing through to the carcass after just over 4000 miles and the fronts going the same way. Never again, will I have those tyres. I think I'll go back to the PZero's unless I can find something better for spirted road / driving tours.

that looks like more negative camber required for the PS4's as opposed to tyres at fault? Stated as a question as I'm clueless on these things! Interesting the Pirelli's didn't exhibit this.

jcosh said: On my 991.2 GTS I fitted a full set of PS4S's as the internet said they are way better than the Pirelli PZero's. I had two previous sets of the Pzero's with no complaints. Good in the wet, the the dry and lasted well enough. The PS4S's were frankly terrible. Softer side walls led to a very high wear rate (two Euro trips) with the rears showing through to the carcass after just over 4000 miles and the fronts going the same way. Never again, will I have those tyres. I think I'll go back to the PZero's unless I can find something better for spirted road / driving tours. That looks like a big issue on camber/toe to carve those up on the inside edge!

993rsr said: That looks like a big issue on camber/toe to carve those up on the inside edge! Agree. That looks like too much camber (and not enough speed as Chris Franklin would say about tracked cars running lots of camber). Looks like the tyre is running on the inside edge. Lots of toe-in can cause excess wear there too. Has your GTS had a geo recently? My PS4S have lasted well.

For those asking about the negative camber on the car. It was (I had it changed again on Thursday at CG) just over 2 degrees.

Discombobulate said: 993rsr said: That looks like a big issue on camber/toe to carve those up on the inside edge! Agree. That looks like too much camber (and not enough speed as Chris Franklin would say about tracked cars running lots of camber). Looks like the tyre is running on the inside edge. Lots of toe-in can cause excess wear there too. Has your GTS had a geo recently? My PS4S have lasted well. As per my previous post when these tyres were on the car was running 2degrees on rear camber. And the tyres were used for fast / hard euro driving only with very little motorway type driving. It now has slightly more rear camber and much more front camber as result of a CG geo change last week, ahead of the OP track day.

TrevorHill said: DJMC said: On PS4S currently and although stiffer sidewall than the previous F1 A2s they've given me no issues whatsoever and are down to 4.5-5mm at 18k. If you don't drive hard there's something wrong with your car to wear yours out in 7k. Edited by DJMC on Sunday 9th March 22:39 I got 8k from the last set of rears and I expect to get 15/16k from the fronts. I’m at 2mm on the current rears. I find it incredible that anyone is getting 18k on a set of PS4S and still on 5mm. I’d expect that on my Moms Micra, not on a Porsche or any performance car for that matter. With respect, perhaps you do drive hard all the time but just don't realise it? Mine's a 981 Cayman, and I really don't drive it hard, just the occasional spirited drive when today's roads permit. Part of the reason I chose the Michelins was due to their fabled high mileage ability.

jcosh said: As per my previous post when these tyres were on the car was running 2degrees on rear camber. And the tyres were used for fast / hard euro driving only with very little motorway type driving. It now has slightly more rear camber and much more front camber as result of a CG geo change last week, ahead of the OP track day. So normal camber for these cars. Out of interest what did Chris / Pete say about the wear?

Discombobulate said: jcosh said: As per my previous post when these tyres were on the car was running 2degrees on rear camber. And the tyres were used for fast / hard euro driving only with very little motorway type driving. It now has slightly more rear camber and much more front camber as result of a CG geo change last week, ahead of the OP track day. So normal camber for these cars. Out of interest what did Chris / Pete say about the wear? Pete suggested that the PS4S's are too soft for hard driving with notably camber and that Pzero has a firmer side wall. But with more rear and much more front camber, Cup2's are being suggested as the best option for my car. Which I run anyway for track days, but swap to 'road' tyres for Euro trips.

jcosh said: Pete suggested that the PS4S's are too soft for hard driving with notably camber and that Pzero has a firmer side wall. But with more rear and much more front camber, Cup2's are being suggested as the best option for my car. Which I run anyway for track days, but swap to 'road' tyres for Euro trips. Interesting. Thank you.

993rsr said: jcosh said: On my 991.2 GTS I fitted a full set of PS4S's as the internet said they are way better than the Pirelli PZero's. I had two previous sets of the Pzero's with no complaints. Good in the wet, the the dry and lasted well enough. The PS4S's were frankly terrible. Softer side walls led to a very high wear rate (two Euro trips) with the rears showing through to the carcass after just over 4000 miles and the fronts going the same way. Never again, will I have those tyres. I think I'll go back to the PZero's unless I can find something better for spirted road / driving tours. That looks like a big issue on camber/toe to carve those up on the inside edge! Toe out did that to a pair of tyres on an old car of mine, but odd if the car has been to CG. Maybe tyre pressures were too low (at Cup2 levels) and combined with the camber the shoulders got hammered? Cup2s would be say 33psi but everything else on the rear of a 911 is up around 38-40 I think.

PS4S and the Pirelli’s are both 300 treadwear tyres so the compound will be similar. I use Cup 2’s (180 treadwear) for summer and Pirelli’s for winter. I’ve also tried Goodyear Assy and Bridgestone Potenza (300 treadwear) If they’re N rated and you don’t intend tracking the car, I’d choose value over what the internet says. The Michelin’s are the most expensive because they’ve got the best marketing and “influencer” support.

maz8062 said: PS4S and the Pirelli’s are both 300 treadwear tyres so the compound will be similar. I use Cup 2’s (180 treadwear) for summer and Pirelli’s for winter. I’ve also tried Goodyear Assy and Bridgestone Potenza (300 treadwear) If they’re N rated and you don’t intend tracking the car, I’d choose value over what the internet says. The Michelin’s are the most expensive because they’ve got the best marketing and “influencer” support. Treadwear is a limited measure of a tyres characteristics - a bit like comparing cars using WLTP figures and assuming that those with similar consumptions always have similar performance / use the same technology. They might, but they could also be very different in many respects.

Discombobulate said: maz8062 said: PS4S and the Pirelli’s are both 300 treadwear tyres so the compound will be similar. I use Cup 2’s (180 treadwear) for summer and Pirelli’s for winter. I’ve also tried Goodyear Assy and Bridgestone Potenza (300 treadwear) If they’re N rated and you don’t intend tracking the car, I’d choose value over what the internet says. The Michelin’s are the most expensive because they’ve got the best marketing and “influencer” support. Treadwear is a limited measure of a tyres characteristics - a bit like comparing cars using WLTP figures and assuming that those with similar consumptions always have similar performance / use the same technology. They might, but they could also be very different in many respects. Fair enough, but I think folk over complicate tyre purchases for street use. Even the softest compound of tyres (I’ve used 80 treadwear for the street) will barely get heat into them driving at strict speed limits. I like the Cup 2’s for example, not for the grip but more for the sharp turn-in characteristics, which is barely different to the Pirelli’s. But they’re overkill for the street for sure and are noticeably ineffective at temps below 5C. The internet has decided that PS4S is the best tyre; I don’t agree. I think the N rated tyres are much of a muchness regardless of brand, so I’d be shopping based on value and wouldn’t discount a brand because they’re not Michelin. For the track it’ll be a different story, mind. The OP will probably still buy Michelin PS4S and they wouldn’t be wrong either way.

jcosh said: On my 991.2 GTS I fitted a full set of PS4S's as the internet said they are way better than the Pirelli PZero's. I had two previous sets of the Pzero's with no complaints. Good in the wet, the the dry and lasted well enough. The PS4S's were frankly terrible. Softer side walls led to a very high wear rate (two Euro trips) with the rears showing through to the carcass after just over 4000 miles and the fronts going the same way. Never again, will I have those tyres. I think I'll go back to the PZero's unless I can find something better for spirted road / driving tours. Thinking back to when I first put this full set of new PS4S's on the car back in Sept 2023 for road use (fast Euro driving), I recall using my previous pressures from my PZero's (had two sets on the car without complaint). Which would have been about 32R 30F hot, so a good bit lower until up to temperature. I wonder if these pressure were too low for the PS4S's with their softer side walls? I recall noting the tyres 'complaining' (squealing) through high speed sweeping corners. It wasn't until later in the trip i increased the pressures and found the tyres to perform better and not make the cornering noise. Does this resonate to anybody thats had both tyres on the same car?

jcosh said: Thinking back to when I first put this full set of new PS4S's on the car back in Sept 2023 for road use (fast Euro driving), I recall using my previous pressures from my PZero's (had two sets on the car without complaint). Which would have been about 32R 30F hot, so a good bit lower until up to temperature. I wonder if these pressure were too low for the PS4S's with their softer side walls? I recall noting the tyres 'complaining' (squealing) through high speed sweeping corners. It wasn't until later in the trip i increased the pressures and found the tyres to perform better and not make the cornering noise. Does this resonate to anybody thats had both tyres on the same car? Haven't had both so can't help, but the lower pressures would explain a lot.

PS4S and the Pirelli’s are both 300 treadwear tyres so the compound will be similar. I use Cup 2’s (180 treadwear) for summer and Pirelli’s for winter. I’ve also tried Goodyear Assy and Bridgestone Potenza (300 treadwear) If they’re N rated and you don’t intend tracking the car, I’d choose value over what the internet says. The Michelin’s are the most expensive because they’ve got the best marketing and “influencer” support.

jcosh said: ... Which would have been about 32R 30F hot... I'd say 32psi hot on the rears was much too low for the P-zeroes and PS4S, so I think that's your answer on the strange wear. The recommended pressures are for when the tyres are cold I think? 33psi for Cup tyres (i.e. on GT3's door sticker) and 38psi for Carreras et al. In fact here is a sticker for a 991.2 C4S. Rears are 39psi measured at 20 degrees ambient. Oh, that's for maximum speed. 33psi cold is ok with no passengers, but 39psi with passengers and luggage (e.g. Euro trips). https://www.design911shop.com/p/tyre-pressure-deca... Sorry for thread drift. But there might be relevance to the OP, being that if the GT4's recommended pressures are for Cup2/Direzza tyres, those pressures will be too low for PS4S, Conti 7 etc. Given the OP has a fresh set of Michelin on the front I'd stay with them for the rear. Then swap all 4 to Conti 7 the next time round. Edited by braddo on Friday 14th March 14:32

braddo said: Given the OP has a fresh set of Michelin on the front I'd stay with them for the rear. Then swap all 4 to Conti 7 the next time round. That is exactly what I am doing. New PS4S going on the rear next week and then I’ll go with Contis when I’m changing all four. Thank you to everyone who contributed.

Just released.......... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXaYeMwMQ6g Edited by AmoCS on Saturday 15th March 06:36

Has anyone tried the new Michelin 5s yet ?