Turbo V's C4S Dilema

Again my head is going around.. I did kick this around a while ago but now want to do it!! Looking at £42K +/- £3K I am keen to 'upgrade' and am still unsure about C4S V's Turbo, naturally I see lots of good feedback about C4S but am i going to have wished I'd pushed the bout for a Turbo... SO.. Any experiences of such decisions would be very appreciated, including such things as:- Living costs Depreciation Hidden costs on Turbo (I hear plug service is not cheap) What to look for etc.. (I've read the buyers guides etc...) Any pointers Ta. Migration info. Legacy thread was 118464

BTW The car will be a day-to-day car with not too heavy use ! Migration info. Legacy thread was 118465

Probably no help whatsoever but I was recently looking for a C4S and found a few nice examples but then looking at the prices they were close to reaching TT levels on similar ages. A fine example of a TT then came available which was local to me so I bought that instead . Had the OPC check performed and put on a 12 month warranty for piece of mind. Haven't contemplated the costs but suspect that they will not be pleasant but surely that comes with the territory and undoubtedly more expensive on the TT rather than the C4S. Just had the car detailed today and it looks fantastic so very pleased with the decision. Migration info. Legacy thread was 118468

On a purely 'emotional' level, I'd go for the Turbo. I don't know about the running costs, etc. Will be interesting to read views of other owners... Migration info. Legacy thread was 118472

I bought a C4S new, thinking that the power would be enough and the handling would be the same. I didn't feel confident enough at the time in my abilities and wanted to save some money. After 15 months I swapped to a turbo. I just wanted more push in the back. NA cars are good but I personally like turbos, and I like the driving characteristics. It was a waste of money for me to get the C4S first, I should just have gone straight for the turbo. It was the one I really wanted, but I tried to tell myself it didn't matter. I would say that if you can, then you should. Since you will be buying used, a big chunk of the depreciation is taken out for you. The turbo will have lost a bigger amount. I would guess the C4S is going to head towards the 30's, the turbo is probably unlikely to dip out of the 40's. How much you lose will depend on how much you pay for the new one, how long you keep it, how good a condition it is, and how much you drive it. But don't buy something you are then worried about driving. It is a waste. MPG on the C4S used to be around 25 for mixed driving, I get around 22 in the turbo. It drops into the teens when going mad, has been below 10 on a track and has reached 28 at a steady 70 on the motorway. Insurance is higher on the turbo, probably by about 50%, but it depends on circumstances. Servicing costs are not outrageous (OPC prices below). C4S 12K miles = £322, TT=£342. C4S 24K miles = £528, TT=£538. Spark plugs are the main difference. C4S every 48K miles = £269. TT every 24K miles = £456. Drivebelt every 48K miles on both, C4S=£17, TT=£61. All other costs are the same (oil, fuel filter, brake fluid, etc.) But the main advantage is that the engine and gearbox is stronger. I don't think they are going to break easily. Of course if major items go wrong, it starts to get expensive. I believe a whole new engine on a C4S is about 8K, and about 18K on a turbo (but this is just an educated guess, I do not really know). I also think a new gearbox on a turbo is over 5K, and I think 1 turbo is over 1K. It is very advisable to have the extended warranty. It can be extended up to 9 years and 120K miles and covers major items. After that, make sure you have some money set aside. Suspension parts, brakes, most drive train parts, bodywork, electrics, etc. are the same, so costs will be the same. Used, there was not much premium attached to the X50 cars, but this may be changing. You should try to get one if possible. Tyre wear on the turbo is more, esp. for the rears, but it again depends on how you drive it. What to look for? Nothing in particular, just get them properly inspected and make sure you have the warranty. Migration info. Legacy thread was 118473

I should mention that I use the car everyday. In the C4S I did 28K miles in 15 months, and in the TT I have done 40K in just 30 months. I did not have a single issue with the C4S, as far as I can remember. But on the turbo I have had some issues. Rear 3rd brake light cracked on it's own, cost about £70 I think to replace it. Had a warning on the dashboard that required the engine bay temperature sensor to be replaced, under warranty. Front diff had an oil leak, seal replaced under warranty. Water leak from hose in the engine, so whole engine out and 3 weeks work to fix it. Ended up with new heat turbo heat shields, new pipe to each turbo (don't know which ones), new head gaskets, all hoses taken off and reseated. Would have cost about 4-5K I think, but all done under warranty. Some idiot drove into the side in a stolen car, so I had a new door, new wing, bonnet respray, A-pillar and door hinges straightened, fuel breather, 2 new wheels, etc. About £11K of work which took about 10 weeks. I have 3 times had a warning for oil pressure, but it is the oil pressure sender. It is on the edge of the normal operating range. I have asked twice for it to be replaced, but the OPC says it is within tolerance, so I ignore it. Follow new door, there was an issue with water getting in, so I have had a new membrane put in the door (at no cost to me) and now it is watertight. There was a rattle when new, which was the rear windscreen wiper relay. It had not beem seated correctly when assembled at the factory. There was some other minor issue I can't remember as well. Plus after the first service the OPC forgot to put two bolts back in, where the plastic guard sits around the oil filter (I think). This was minor though. The only things I can tell you about living with it are there is a rattle from the dashboard in the left hand corner when the car is cold. In the summer and when the car has warmed up with the heater in the winter it stops. The C4S did the same. The passenger seat sticks sometimes and I don't think it goes as far back on it's runners as it used to. The interior wears well, althouh the leather on drivers seat is starting to get a bit shiny from wear. Migration info. Legacy thread was 118476

Thanks Stuart very comprehensive.. My thoughts seem to figure with your experiences.... As I'm in SAGA age bracket & I get 70% NCD from Tesco the insurance won't be too much of a hit but it sounds as if the place to buy a Turbo is Indi' specialist dealer then OPC warrenty at I presume about £1000 pa... I'll carry on the search .. Cheers Migration info. Legacy thread was 118477

I'd check whether Tesco will cover this sort of car. When new, (mostly due to the price inc. some options) I found most people would not quote for it. OPC warranty is the same for all 996 variants. So less than £1K, even for the turbo. It is reasonable value for a C2, but outstanding for a turbo, and is in advance of anything you can get for camparable cars. You need to either get it serviced at OPC, or else get it inspected by them and have any remedial work done, in order to qualify. Assuming the car does not come with it from the previous owner. Another thing I forgot: I believe the TT (at least) is supposed to have heated washer jets. Last winter they froze quite a few times and took about 45 minutes of driving to thaw. This winter, although it has not been so cold, I have noticed a few times the water steaming when I have squirted it on the screen. Following the repair work I think the bodyshop (Bodytechnics in Reading who are good) may have fixed them or connected the correctly. I asked the OPC last winter to check them and they didn't seem to know anything about it. Migration info. Legacy thread was 118481

I have been contemplating the same move and intend to do the deed hopefully within the next month or so, hence Just a couple of things to add to Stuarts comprehensive comparison. Insurance . I did acomparison on Confused and the Turbo was only £10.00 PA dearer, yes ten pounds! This was across the range with most companies and a couple were even slighltly cheaper for a turbo (same value for both cars but 2 years older for a turbo) Servicing costs C4S http://www.jzmachtech.com/shells/service_index.php?porsche=996&model=996%20C4%20Manual%20Air%20Con&engine=3.6&year=2002 turbo http://www.jzmachtech.com/shells/service_index.php?porsche=996&model=996%20Turbo&engine=3.6&year=2002 Not sure but are brakes the same on both cars? Migration info. Legacy thread was 118504

So a Turbo with Warranty it is then!! Migration info. Legacy thread was 118574

The other thing to mention of course, is the 996TT is just the starting point. It is massively tunable. If you aren't worried about warranty stuff, then 500bhp with a chip is easy, 550 with chip, air filter and new exhaust is also easy. You can then go for 600, 650, 700, 750 or 800 bhp depending on how much you want to spend. Note that it can get up to the price of the car (which is daft), if you really want to go for it. The gearbox is based on the the 993 GT2's, and has nothing in common with the C4S gearbox. The engine block and innards are based on the GT1, and also have nothing in common with the C4S. Both can handle more than the TT puts out. No need to upgrade to 997TT or 998TT, just modify the 996. One car with tweaks should be able to keep up for many years. Migration info. Legacy thread was 118582

Brakes are supposed to be the same on both. The discs and callipers are the same, but the pedal feel on my two were very different. I believe the TT has more servo assistance, so you can brake harder. In any case you have to press hard on the pedal, and get some warmth into them to get the real brakig power. Migration info. Legacy thread was 118583

Brakes are the same, discs, pads and all the miscellaneous bits. The extra servo assistance is probably needed to cater for the extra person the Turbo weighs :wink: Plus the Turbo sounds awful, nothing competes with sound of a NA Porsche's PSE :wink: Migration info. Legacy thread was 118608

I love my C4S I really do and I have not driven a TT yet. But for the money I think the TT is such an outstanding supercar, if i was buying now i would buy a TT over a C4S no question. Migration info. Legacy thread was 118619

TTs are cracking value at under £50k, plus the engine has no leaky issues being based on a different block. I prefer the looks of the C4S with rear reflector and no rear intakes, and you can't argue with the PSE noise! Migration info. Legacy thread was 118810