£45k… 997.2 C2 versus 991.1 C2 versus 981 GTS - Page 3 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

Help needed! Read a few 911 v Cayman posts, and I’m none the wiser. Following making the huge mistake of selling an F90 M5 and moving to an i4 to save the planet… I’ve got a budget of £45k… I’ve looked at and test driven a 997.2 C2 (2011), a 991.1 C2 (2013) and a 981 GTS (2015) We have an XC90 which is the family workhorse for long trips. Kids are teenagers and tall which I think removes the benefit of rear seats in either 911. I can’t see them in the rear except for the shortest of journeys (reminded me of my wife’s old TT) This will be my daily; 3 days in the office (20 miles each way on M25) and weekends (needs to accommodate golf clubs!) I can use the XC90 for the school days etc. I’m completely torn between each car which is leaving me constantly trawling through the classifieds and autotrader. The 997.2 C2 was where it started. Saw it and liked it. Got me looking and discovered the budget could get an early 991 C2. Then when looking at one, I spotted the 981 GTS at the dealer and it looks and sounds incredible plus is a couple of years newer. I have heard some horror stories of 911 maintenance bills, but I’m guessing the 981 might not be far behind. Anyone with any words of wisdom to help me out? As I say, driven all 3 models and like all of them…

You will never get a straight answer to the question you are asking! Perennial debate 911 platform v 718 I have gone from 992 911 (wonderful) to a 718 and thr handling feels just sharper due to the mid engine. Both platforms are great, both have their own following - none of your choices would be a mistake. Enjoy. (718 for me out of your choices)

I know! I think that’s why I’m stuck… all 3 were great to drive and each had its own strong point Oh, and it’s a 981 not a 718… although the 718 S also features in budget and far newer still - even more confusion! Edited by mrobbie on Sunday 20th April 16:59

991>997.2>981C

997 feels a bit more raw, and if you are going manual the 997 would win for me. However, if you are going PDK then the 991 starts to appeal as much as the 997. As a daily driver I think in many ways it is better than my 997. The Caymans I love, but the GTS is the same as the S with a few bits thrown at it, it doesn't make sense to me when on average it is £10-15k more than an S specced with all those bits. I really like the 718 to drive, everyone bangs on about it being a 4 cylinder, but it is really fun to drive. Would I buy one? Hmmm? Not sure I would, because it is a 4 cylinder. Haha But great cars imho and well worth trying. 997 will arguably be one of the most sort after cars as we move forward, we are sort of seeing that in prices already. You took them all out, which did you prefer?

Hotrods1974 said: You will never get a straight answer to the question you are asking! This. The 981 GTS is probably a better sports car than the 991.1 C2. But the 991 is a 911. Depends what you want. I have a 991.1 C4S and chose it because I wanted a 911 and wanted normally aspirated. It's quick, but I bought it for continental cruising rather than a (higher) performance car.

If you're looking at PDK - the 991.1 has a better version of the PDK compared to the 997.2. If manual, I think the 991.1 has a 7 speed box the 997 a 6 speed. Overall, the 991 is the better car especially as a daily. 981 GTS? Nah, it's not a 911, it's an entry level Porsche, a good one, but not a 911.

M25 ? Has to be PDK. 991 for me in that choice from an actual good to live with persoectiv

Thanks all - useful info Ed.Neumann said: You took them all out, which did you prefer? All of them. For different reasons. Cayman felt compact and the nicest driver. 997 was definitely more raw than the 991. Any 911 being more practical than a Cayman is a stretch. Storage yeah, but as seats no. I’m thinking the 991 is the lead contender - I’m not a track day person (so far…) so the Cayman may be better for something I don’t need.

Sorry I didn’t realise it was a 981 and not 718 For me then I’d go with the 911.1 Good solid car with the NA engine. The turbo engined cars in the 991.2 and 992 whilst strong just sound rubbish. Good luck.

mrobbie said: All of them. For different reasons. Cayman felt compact and the nicest driver. 997 was definitely more raw than the 991. Any 911 being more practical than a Cayman is a stretch. Storage yeah, but as seats no. I’m thinking the 991 is the lead contender - I’m not a track day person (so far…) so the Cayman may be better for something I don’t need. A nice Cayman S I would definitely try if a daily, the GTS is the same car with a few nice options added, many S models are specced nicer for daily use. Not worth another £10-12k imho. Or find another £10k and get a GT4. I would also try a 718 S, it is a proper bit of kit. I disagree about the practicality of the Cayman vs the 911, if it is a 3rd or 4th car fair enough, the differences becomes less, but if it is your 2nd car losing rear seats can start to become an issue, it is the reason we swapped to a 911. I was sure a 2 seater would be a none issue, especially with two boots, it soon became apparent that with a son that still doesn't drive, and dogs, that the two seater just didn't get used very much. It was used for the boring stuff like commuting, but not a great deal else. Drop my son somewhere and having those rear seats make a big difference, drop him off and then we would go and do something, taking the 911 is nice. The 2 seater just sits on the drive again and we are out in the boring old 5 series. The rear seats are not even that bad, my wife is 5'4" but she sat in the back for an hour and twenty minutes the other day and was fine, and I have a 997, the 991 is slightly better. And my daughter came back with us and she is 5'8" and said it was fine. By the time we got back they said they were glad it wasn't any longer, but said it was more than ok. My point being, I think you maybe surprised how handy the 911 layout becomes useful once you have one, and how frustrating the Cayman layout can be if you do have more than 2 of you in the household still.

Would rather have a 981 gts than some sort of vanilla 991, I’ve a 997 and 981 gt4, the gt4 every day, probably changing the 997 for a .1 gts manual if I can find a good one, failing that I’ll go to a .2 gt3. I’d love a 4rs but have to say the top end noise would put me off as I already have a bit of ringing in the ears. Always have preferred the drive of the cayman personally and if your worried about it not being a 911……I wouldn’t as 99% of the public thinks that’s exactly what it is You might get the odd dick in a Porsche cap reminding you its not a 911 though.

Ed.Neumann said: My point being, I think you maybe surprised how handy the 911 layout becomes useful once you have one, and how frustrating the Cayman layout can be if you do have more than 2 of you in the household still. Yeah, I think head count is the critical practicality factor. For two people and luggage or other crap, I think a Cayman is more practical, you can shove all kinds of nonsense in the back of a Cayman. Especially over short distances with the rear boot left open, you can lob in some really large objects that would never go in a 911. In general luggage terms, I think the Cayman is preferable for two people touring. However, if you ever want to take kids and / or dogs, or maybe the occasional third adult, the 911 is clearly miles better / actually viable. Two people plus a dog or two is great in a 911, far, far less so in a Cayman. For me, personally, that could be a deciding factor for a switch from the mid-engine car I currently have to a rear-engine model, despite the fact that I prefer the Cayman chassis (to non-GT 911s). Would be nice to get the GF and two small-to-mid-sized dogs in a 911. Not really an option in a Cayman.

Ed.Neumann said: I disagree about the practicality of the Cayman vs the 911, if it is a 3rd or 4th car fair enough, the differences becomes less, but if it is your 2nd car losing rear seats can start to become an issue, it is the reason we swapped to a 911. I was sure a 2 seater would be a none issue, especially with two boots, it soon became apparent that with a son that still doesn't drive, and dogs, that the two seater just didn't get used very much. It was used for the boring stuff like commuting, but not a great deal else. Drop my son somewhere and having those rear seats make a big difference, drop him off and then we would go and do something, taking the 911 is nice. The 2 seater just sits on the drive again and we are out in the boring old 5 series. The rear seats are not even that bad, my wife is 5'4" but she sat in the back for an hour and twenty minutes the other day and was fine, and I have a 997, the 991 is slightly better. And my daughter came back with us and she is 5'8" and said it was fine. By the time we got back they said they were glad it wasn't any longer, but said it was more than ok. My point being, I think you maybe surprised how handy the 911 layout becomes useful once you have one, and how frustrating the Cayman layout can be if you do have more than 2 of you in the household still. Thanks Ed - this is great, exactly the position. I’d like the family to be able to enjoy it, even just short journeys on weekends. Next time I’m taking the family for a test drive to get them in the back Edited by mrobbie on Monday 21st April 12:00 Edited by mrobbie on Monday 21st April 12:02

45k is 997 Turbo money

Juan B said: 45k is 997 Turbo money …and 997 Turbo maintenance money too

My last Porsche was a 997.2 3.6 and my current one is a 4.0 GTS. The Cayman is a better drivers car which sounds and feels like a sports car. The 997 is 911 which imho always trumps everything else but it feels less special to drive and feels more grown up. Don’t underestimate the lack of tech on the older car especially when it’s a DD. DAB/Android Auto, CarPlay make a huge difference on a DD. I love the 997.2 but the only one I’d consider now is the GT3. If you do decide to go with the 997 get one with the sports exhaust and retro fit the short shift kit £350-£400.

I have a 997.2 C2 manual (which is a toy, not a daily, and which i hope i never need to sell) so i'm biased, but... If you want a manual, buy the 997.2 or the 981 If you want a PDK, buy the 991.1 or the 981 As your kids are too big to go in the back of the 911, and as you're planning to daily the car, i think i'd go 981 GTS. They make an epic noise and are genuinely both fun to drive and easy to live with.

VerySideways said: As your kids are too big to go in the back of the 911, and as you're planning to daily the car, i think i'd go 981 GTS. They make an epic noise and are genuinely both fun to drive and easy to live with. Have seen a few of these on the go, some with the leather seats which in some way loses part of the appeal of the GTS interior - I love the alcantara with the GTS on the seats. I think the 918 model looks great and seems quite practical in that I can get my golf bats into it no issues.. The Cayman GTS search made me stumble across the 718 GTS... Appealing in terms of newness and tech, and while the 2.5 engine doesn't sound as nice, it doesn't sound bad, and the car goes just as well as the previous model. A decent chat with a finance broker and my budget is actually £55k which opens up some new options, or I hold back a bit and the 981 with its soundtrack could tick the boxes. Got around 6-7 weeks until my current car goes to make up my mind...

I remember Chris Harris saying something like... A Cayman is all about the start of the corner A 911 is all about the end of the corner Have had both and prefer the slingshot effect of leaning on rear-engine traction to punch out of a corner. Pick your poison!

Having driven a 997 GTS, Turbo, 992 Turbo S, 991 GT3, 992 T extensively , I think the 911 is a great start to the Porsche journey but I think the 981 cayman GTS will be a long term possession in your stable as it has character, makes you work for it (especially the manual) as well as rewarding you. It is not all about speed but the way how it handles and sounds. The 981 has a lot of character. The 911 is exceptional but too clinical

With little thought to the details, I'd say go for the older 911 because it's an iconic experience. You can sell it after a year and get the Cayman in whichever format if you want.

People are commenting that the 981 GTS sounds great, and I agree it does, but does the 991.1 C2 not have the same 3.4 litre engine in a marginally higher tune? Should it not then sound similar to the Cayman assuming it also has PSE?

JackReacher said: People are commenting that the 981 GTS sounds great, and I agree it does, but does the 991.1 C2 not have the same 3.4 litre engine in a marginally higher tune? Should it not then sound similar to the Cayman assuming it also has PSE? Correct. I think the difference in experience is from sharing the cabin with the engine.

Royal Jelly said: JackReacher said: People are commenting that the 981 GTS sounds great, and I agree it does, but does the 991.1 C2 not have the same 3.4 litre engine in a marginally higher tune? Should it not then sound similar to the Cayman assuming it also has PSE? Correct. I think the difference in experience is from sharing the cabin with the engine. I suspect the position of the air intakes also plays a factor.

The 981 GTS is the same as the S, same exhaust as the PSE exhaust on the S too. The main difference is the way the sound is tuned going into the cabin, it allows more noise from the engine bay, and also the way it is software tuned. They have put more pops and crackles in, which personally I don't like, but only gets a bit chavvy when in sport plus. The 981 GTS, apart from the silly pops and crackles in sport plus, is one of the best sounding cars out there imho and it adds a lot to the experience.

Ed.Neumann said: The 981 GTS is the same as the S, same exhaust as the PSE exhaust on the S too. The main difference is the way the sound is tuned going into the cabin, it allows more noise from the engine bay, and also the way it is software tuned. They have put more pops and crackles in, which personally I don't like, but only gets a bit chavvy when in sport plus. The 981 GTS, apart from the silly pops and crackles in sport plus, is one of the best sounding cars out there imho and it adds a lot to the experience. The 981 GTS does have a slight ECU map to the exhaust and also has a symposer. It sounds a bit louder to a S.

SkinnyPete said: I suspect the position of the air intakes also plays a factor. The 981 GTS sounds completely different from a 991 3.4 and the 3.8 GTS. One of the best sounding porsche road cars (some even say.......better than a 981 GT4) but depends how much you like the overrun pops and crackles

The pops and bangs are in Sport. Sport Plus gets rid of it pretty much, because it's aimed at track driving

As is always the case with these decisions, it is a combination of what your taste is with your cars and your use case. For the daily commute scenario I suspect that the 911.1 C2 would be best suited and and most comfortable, bigger cabin etc. (I've not driven one, so only speculating on this one) But if you are looking for something fun as a priority (that can also do the commute), I'd probably go for a 981 GTS Boxster. Firm values, top down fun that the kids and family will also love, quick enough, great noise, and with a pdk would make it easy to use on the commute.

n12maser said: The pops and bangs are in Sport. Sport Plus gets rid of it pretty much, because it's aimed at track driving weirdly, my sports plus is far noisier than the sport mode

When I had my 997, I test drove the 981 GTS and thought it was dull tbh. If you’re ok with the older cabin in the 997, it’s easily the most engaging out of that lot. If you are looking for engaging, of course.

DMZ said: When I had my 997, I test drove the 981 GTS and thought it was dull tbh. If you’re ok with the older cabin in the 997, it’s easily the most engaging out of that lot. If you are looking for engaging, of course. Totally agree with the 997 being most engaging of those listed. I was thinking of the open top element from the boxster variant as adding a different element whilst doing the daily chores. Just a balance of what compromise is important for the OP.

OP if dailying just remember that the 911 will carry higher servicing and potentially consumables costs So that is worth baring in mind As for a daily, a 981 S or GTS is perfectly doable. I know a guy who bought his 981 Cayman S at 6 months old; 11 years and 160,000 miles later and it's still going strong

SV_WDC said: OP if dailying just remember that the 911 will carry higher servicing and potentially consumables costs While its a daily, I typically only cover around 8k miles per annum (longer journeys are typically the family & dog so the XC90 comes into play). Just been on a test drive of a 991.2 C2 and it was nice. The 3.0T was so easy to drive in town driv. You are right re servicing - the car had a major service earlier this year with no issues, but with a £2k invoice, so yes, they are not cheap to maintain.

Ed.Neumann said: The 981 GTS, apart from the silly pops and crackles in sport plus, is one of the best sounding cars out there imho and it adds a lot to the experience. Had to YouTube that. It's certainly got a nice throaty roar. The pops and bangs are a bit silly, though - a couple here and there are fine but it's like a dodgy backstreet tuner chipped it.

I drive mine (S PDK) almost exclusively in normal mode, and very rarely do I use sport or sports plus. The throttle response and shift mapping sucks, but I much prefer the lack of pops, bangs and farts out of the exhaust.

Paul_D said: Ed.Neumann said: The main difference is the way the sound is tuned going into the cabin, it allows more noise from the engine bay, and also the way it is software tuned. They have put more pops and crackles in, which personally I don't like, but only gets a bit chavvy when in sport plus. The 981 GTS does have a slight ECU map to the exhaust and also has a symposer. It sounds a bit louder to a S. Yeah, that is what I was trying to say. I think they both have symposers, just the GTS one pumps a lot more into the cabin.

Hoofy said: Ed.Neumann said: The 981 GTS, apart from the silly pops and crackles in sport plus, is one of the best sounding cars out there imho and it adds a lot to the experience. Had to YouTube that. It's certainly got a nice throaty roar. The pops and bangs are a bit silly, though - a couple here and there are fine but it's like a dodgy backstreet tuner chipped it. Yeah I agree. The F Type was great when it came out, then seemed everyone with a BMW or Audi coding tool set their car to "max aggro mode" and it has put me right off that sort of sound completely.

JackReacher said: People are commenting that the 981 GTS sounds great, and I agree it does, but does the 991.1 C2 not have the same 3.4 litre engine in a marginally higher tune? Should it not then sound similar to the Cayman assuming it also has PSE? Yes, it's the same engine. But installation, exhaust tuning, induction tuning etc all make a huge difference. It would in fact be a struggle to make the two cars sound very much the same given the exhaust and induction routing, not to mention engine location are so different.

So with the revised budget of up to £57k, me and Mrs R have just spent a good hour at an OPC and are both in agreement that it’s a 991 we are looking for. The budget puts us on the boundary of 991.1 or 991.2 cars through OPC approved but at least now more focussed on what we are after Edited by mrobbie on Saturday 3rd May 17:34

mrobbie said: So with the revised budget of up to £57k, me and Mrs R have just spent a good hour at an OPC and are both in agreement that it’s a 991 we are looking for. The budget puts us on the boundary of 991.1 or 991.2 cars through OPC approved but at least now more focussed on what we are after Edited by mrobbie on Saturday 3rd May 17:34 Nice to hear you are whittling it down. What swayed you to the 991?

Driving all options, each are great. They are Porsches so hardly surprising. They all feel fantastic and each in a slightly different way. Today was no driving. Just at a dealership sitting in various models and the more spacious 911 interior won us over compared to the 718. Actually thought the 718 Boxster was the most practical with the bigger boot, but the 911 works best for us.

I’m just about to sell my Cayman 981 GTS if it’s not too late….Guards Red, fully loaded with GTS Carbon Interior, PDK, full OPc History, 35k miles and transferable OPC Warranty to November 2025. It’s in great condition, bought from OPC Swindon Nov 2023. I’d do a deal if you’re interested rather than trade it in…..

MrVert said: I’m just about to sell my Cayman 981 GTS if it’s not too late….Guards Red, fully loaded with GTS Carbon Interior, PDK, full OPc History, 35k miles and transferable OPC Warranty to November 2025. It’s in great condition, bought from OPC Swindon Nov 2023. I’d do a deal if you’re interested rather than trade it in….. Not too late in that I’ve not agreed a deal yet, but I think it’s a 991 I’ll go for. Ping me an email with the details of your car, location and an idea of price - [email removed]

mrobbie said: So with the revised budget of up to £57k, me and Mrs R have just spent a good hour at an OPC and are both in agreement that it’s a 991 we are looking for. The budget puts us on the boundary of 991.1 or 991.2 cars through OPC approved but at least now more focussed on what we are after I bought a 991.1 C4S last year and am delighted with it. I wanted the bigger non turbo engine and I wanted a 911 over any other model - I wouldn't change that decision.

Interesting reading this as I'll be here in about three years. I'm 6ft 6 and long in the body so I don't know if I can fit in any of them, and it's a convertible I want. Hopefully my budget will be about a max of £70K so I'll have to go and sit in a few and see if I fit. 911 has been my dream car since I was a kid in the 80's with posters on my wall so I hope I do.

mrobbie said: Driving all options, each are great. They are Porsches so hardly surprising. They all feel fantastic and each in a slightly different way. Today was no driving. Just at a dealership sitting in various models and the more spacious 911 interior won us over compared to the 718. Actually thought the 718 Boxster was the most practical with the bigger boot, but the 911 works best for us. I’m actually where you are now, as i looked & drove a Cayman GTS 2.5 from OPC last week… Great car, but I didn’t like the sound and the cabin was cramped IMO, hence why now I’ve started to look at 991’s, but there’s not a lot out there at main Porsche dealers, as definitely want the warranty with these cars…

BigMon said: I'm 6ft 6 and long in the body so I don't know if I can fit in any of them, and it's a convertible I want. My mate is 6 7 and has a 991.1 with sports seats and he fits OK. No way you'll fit in a 981 ... comfortably.

ATM said: BigMon said: I'm 6ft 6 and long in the body so I don't know if I can fit in any of them, and it's a convertible I want. My mate is 6 7 and has a 991.1 with sports seats and he fits OK. No way you'll fit in a 981 ... comfortably. Thanks for the info, genuinely. I haven't sat in any of them as there is no point timewasting until I'm at the point of purchase. I've been watching videos of the 718 4 litre but I'll stop that then! I'll start watching more videos of the 991.1 and 991.2 then.

BigMon said: ATM said: BigMon said: I'm 6ft 6 and long in the body so I don't know if I can fit in any of them, and it's a convertible I want. My mate is 6 7 and has a 991.1 with sports seats and he fits OK. No way you'll fit in a 981 ... comfortably. Thanks for the info, genuinely. I haven't sat in any of them as there is no point timewasting until I'm at the point of purchase. I've been watching videos of the 718 4 litre but I'll stop that then! I'll start watching more videos of the 991.1 and 991.2 then. If you're willing to customise seats and seat mounts and some other stuff you might get into a 981 / 718. I've got a 986 which I've chopped around a bit to maximise leg room. Basically removing all carpet and sound proofing from behind the seat. And trying a few different bucket seats and different bucket seat mounts. It now has way way more legroom than before. I'm not quite 6 2. I have a 981 which is comfy enough with standard seats for Me so I've never investigated going down this road with it. The 986 was genuinely painful to use after say 20 / 30 minutes when it was standard and therefore I was either going to have to sell or fix it. Before After

ATM said: If you're willing to customise seats and seat mounts and some other stuff you might get into a 981 / 718. I've got a 986 which I've chopped around a bit to maximise leg room. Basically removing all carpet and sound proofing from behind the seat. And trying a few different bucket seats and different bucket seat mounts. It now has way way more legroom than before. I'm not quite 6 2. I have a 981 which is comfy enough with standard seats for Me so I've never investigated going down this road with it. The 986 was genuinely painful to use after say 20 / 30 minutes when it was standard and therefore I was either going to have to sell or fix it. Before After I'd rather not go down that route to be honest. If I can fit in a 911 without any faffing about then that will make my mind up straightaway.

BigMon said: Interesting reading this as I'll be here in about three years. I'm 6ft 6 and long in the body so I don't know if I can fit in any of them, and it's a convertible I want. Hopefully my budget will be about a max of £70K so I'll have to go and sit in a few and see if I fit. 911 has been my dream car since I was a kid in the 80's with posters on my wall so I hope I do. I’m 6ft 4 and long in the leg. Plenty of room in a 991. I drive in a relaxed position but don’t have the seat all the way back. I held out for a car with 14 or 18 way seats for the thigh extensions. Ended up with 18 ways which suit me well but could be tight for someone with a larger frame. Body height shouldn’t be a problem. You sit very low if you wish and of course no headroom problems in a convertible I don’t fit comfortably in Boxsters/Caymans but the 911 was also my dream car so was ultimately what I wanted. 1 year in and absolutely love it.

mrobbie said: Not too late in that I’ve not agreed a deal yet, but I think it’s a 991 I’ll go for. Ping me an email with the details of your car, location and an idea of price - [email removed] Didn’t get a chance to reply sorry. The car sold straight away after posting the advert on here! Hope you find the 911 you’re looking for FWIW the Cayman GTS is one of the very finest driver's road cars I’ve owned. That’s in a list incl 911 GT3’s, Ferrari F430 & 458, Cayman R, Boxster Spyder and many other 911’s. I’d definitely try one as well as a 991, they do drive completely differently and a 911 may not even suit you… but worth testing both. Only you will know!

No problem, congrats on the quick sale and thanks for letting me know.