Porsche says the whole industry is going green

Porsche has been on the news a bunch lately. Most of the articles I have read deal with going electric, The 718 is next and Porsche confirmed the 911 will be a hybrid. I�m my opinion all of these just point in one direction, our cars will become even more valuable. I think is cool that Porsche has had many conversations with Apple, it can be two things, 1. Complete car play or even custom CarPlay in the p cars, or 2. maybe Apple is interested in Porsche car technology for the Apple driverless car.

If I had the cash, I would probably be very interested in an electric 718. Not selling the GT3, but at some point gas will be too expensive for a high consumption car to daily drive. I'll try anyway.

I�ll walk before I buy an EV. They can keep their Porsche golf carts.

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Well, don't discount a bicycle, either.

Yeah, I can afford a bike so I'll be goin that route, lol. Pretty cars though. My 996 is the only one for me with a satisfied smile and dream come true.

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This car looks great, but I got in a 2018 and it�s not comfortable for me. A cayman 2007 wasn�t comfortable either, even a gt3 with sport hard seats wasn�t comfortable. I drove my 996 for 22 hours without sleeping 1300 miles, that�s what I expect from these cars. Not everyone is slim and fit, I used to be. Anyway the 996 tank is 16 gallons, driving it hard I�ll get about 20 mpg, so let�s say 320 miles, hell 300 miles, Let�s say gas here gets to $6 a gallon for premium, currently at $4.59 for shell v power 93. $90 a tank for 300 miles of smiles it�s still pretty cheap and affordable in my book,

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I am 5' - 10" and 160 lb, so I am probably like an average guy height and maybe a few pounds lighter. My wife is 5' - 1" on a good day. She is a perfect fit in her Boxster with the seat maybe halfway fore and aft. For me to drive her car, which she does not condone, I need the seat all the way back and even then it is a bit cramped for me. And it is PDK, which helps a lot on the comfort. I don't think I would like to take her car on a trip more than a couple of hours. But of course it is a sports car, not a GT car. With my 996 with the seat all the way back I can barely touch the pedals. And the seats are very comfortable so the 996 can double as a GT car. They are both great cars. Horses for courses.

Porsche is the greatest marketing firm in the world. Not only do they employ great engineers to design and manufacture cars, they employ great marketing folks that can slice and dice global demographics, preferences and trends within the affluent and high net worth segments better than anybody. Right now it's all about positioning Porsche as "the" undisputed leader in EV technology within the minds of every affluent and HNW person so they think Porsche first and Tesla second. As they win that battle, and they will, they will move on to marketing other "green" technology solutions such as biofuel powered "ICE" and eventually a renewed push into "hybrid". Porsche hasn't sold out. Instead, the Porsche marketing team is giggling all the way to and from the bank.

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what you say is so true. Porsche barely makes a little over 300,000 cars per year, why sell to the masses. Anyway it reminds me of Morgan Stanley when James Gorman took over he said the same about high net worth individuals and what he defined as ultra high net worth individuals. Now in the last few years to address the mases they bough e trade and Eaton Vance trying to get regular folks with 401ks. The profitable segment is the rich and super rich.

For as much as I like the how cool EVs are, I'd also like to see IC built alongside their EV counterparts as well. At some point I think I might get my girlfriend an EV, specifically the VW ID but also think I'll keep my VW TDI and 996 until I can't drive anymore.

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I can say for certain in front of Porsche Gods and everyone, walking would not be my option, I would simply convert my 996 to run on pure Alcohol !! Back in 1986 I ran my race car on pure Alcohol, there are a few disadvantages/requirements to running pure Alcohol on a daily driver, but also many great advantages that would be even greater if Gasoline is prohibited or extremely expensive. Back then I bought 55 gallon barrels of Alcohol for $2 a gallon, I just checked and Sunoco Race Methanol is $4 a gallon now. Hell if Alcohol got to expensive I would just set up my own "still"and make my own!!!

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we have a Cayenne Se. Takes a little getting used to driving it �efficiently�, and that adds to the driving experience. When you get into the electric assisted boost, it�s pretty fun. Way faster than my Targa😎

I will drive an electric Porsche for sure. I will also keep my ICE porsches. See the great thing is, you can own more than one car. Rimac knows what he is doing I am excited to see the new EV Porsches and Bugattis. AND to keep my old one.

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i seen tasted some of those in the 120 proof range. Hell Bacardi makes a 151. Cheers 🥃

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Rimac was an interesting addition to Porsche.

Great read regarding Electric Vehicle green facts truly somethings to think about if you haven't as of yet. This is an excellent breakdown. Batteries, they do not make electricity � they store electricity produced elsewhere, primarily by coal, uranium, natural gas-powered plants, or diesel-fueled generators. So, to say an EV is a zero-emission vehicle is not at all valid. Also, since forty percent of the electricity generated in the U.S. is from coal-fired plants, it follows that forty percent of the EVs on the road are coal-powered, do you see?" Einstein's formula, E=MC2, tells us it takes the same amount of energy to move a five-thousand-pound gasoline-driven automobile a mile as it does an electric one. The only question again is what produces the power? To reiterate, it does not come from the battery; the battery is only the storage device, like a gas tank in a car. There are two orders of batteries, rechargeable, and single-use. The most common single-use batteries are A, AA, AAA, C, D. 9V, and lantern types. Those dry-cell species use zinc, manganese, lithium, silver oxide, or zinc and carbon to store electricity chemically. Please note they all contain toxic, heavy metals. Rechargeable batteries only differ in their internal materials, usually lithium-ion, nickel-metal oxide, and nickel-cadmium. The United States uses three billion of these two battery types a year, and most are not recycled; they end up in landfills. California is the only state which requires all batteries be recycled. If you throw your small, used batteries in the trash, here is what happens to them. All batteries are self-discharging. That means even when not in use, they leak tiny amounts of energy. You have likely ruined a flashlight or two from an old, ruptured battery. When a battery runs down and can no longer power a toy or light, you think of it as dead; well, it is not. It continues to leak small amounts of electricity. As the chemicals inside it run out, pressure builds inside the battery's metal casing, and eventually, it cracks. The metals left inside then ooze out. The ooze in your ruined flashlight is toxic, and so is the ooze that will inevitably leak from every battery in a landfill. All batteries eventually rupture; it just takes rechargeable batteries longer to end up in the landfill. In addition to dry cell batteries, there are also wet cell ones used in automobiles, boats, and motorcycles. The good thing about those is, ninety percent of them are recycled. Unfortunately, we do not yet know how to recycle single-use ones properly. But that is not half of it. For those of you excited about electric cars and a green revolution, I want you to take a closer look at batteries and also windmills and solar panels. These three technologies share what we call environmentally destructive production costs. A typical EV battery weighs one thousand pounds, about the size of a travel trunk. It contains twenty-five pounds of lithium, sixty pounds of nickel, 44 pounds of manganese, 30 pounds cobalt, 200 pounds of copper, and 400 pounds of aluminum, steel, and plastic. Inside are over 6,000 individual lithium-ion cells. It should concern you that all those toxic components come from mining. For instance, to manufacture each EV auto battery, you must process 25,000 pounds of brine for the lithium, 30,000 pounds of ore for the cobalt, 5,000 pounds of ore for the nickel, and 25,000 pounds of ore for copper. All told, you dig up 500,000 pounds of the earth's crust for just - one - battery." Sixty-eight percent of the world's cobalt, a significant part of a battery, comes from the Congo. Their mines have no pollution controls, and they employ children who die from handling this toxic material. Should we factor in these diseased kids as part of the cost of driving an electric car?" I'd like to leave you with these thoughts. California is building the largest battery in the world near San Francisco, and they intend to power it from solar panels and windmills. They claim this is the ultimate in being 'green,' but it is not. This construction project is creating an environmental disaster. Let me tell you why. The main problem with solar arrays is the chemicals needed to process silicate into the silicon used in the panels. To make pure enough silicon requires processing it with hydrochloric acid, sulfuric acid, nitric acid, hydrogen fluoride, trichloroethane, and acetone. In addition, they also need gallium, arsenide, copper-indium-gallium- diselenide, and cadmium-telluride, which also are highly toxic. Silicon dust is a hazard to the workers, and the panels cannot be recycled. Windmills are the ultimate in embedded costs and environmental destruction. Each weighs 1688 tons (the equivalent of 23 houses) and contains 1300 tons of concrete, 295 tons of steel, 48 tons of iron, 24 tons of fiberglass, and the hard to extract rare earths neodymium, praseodymium, and dysprosium. Each blade weighs 81,000 pounds and will last 15 to 20 years, at which time it must be replaced. We cannot recycle used blades. There may be a place for these technologies, but you must look beyond the myth of zero emissions. Going Green" may sound like the Utopian ideal but when you look at the hidden and embedded costs realistically with an open mind, you can see that Going Green is more destructive to the Earth's environment than meets the eye, for sure. Obviously copied/pasted.

Ill take an ice engine with biofuel any day.

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You say it�s an excellent breakdown, I would say it barely borders on readable let alone factual. It�s a bunch of mindless statements without analysis. The first portion about the way EVs are powered by the grid discounts the huge efficiency gap between electric and ICE engines. I don�t think anyone believes EVs to be zero emissions. It�s such an embarrassing exclusion to not mention engine efficiency that it shows whoever wrote that paragraph knows almost nothing about the topic or is biased. Electric motors are about 80-90% efficient, compared with 25-40% for ICE. So an EV charged from a grid which is mostly reliant on say, coal still produces less CO2 than a comparable ICE powered car. It�s been demonstrated time and time again by empirical studies that the life long CO2 benefit including manufacturing and disposal tips to Electric vehicles. Oil and gas extraction and transportation is wildly problematic- so to discount the CO2 benefits of EVs because of the other potential humanitarian or environmental concerns about extraction of materials needed for battery production is pretty disingenuous. Oil spills, pipeline spills, the gulf war, oil fields abandoned once dry, questionable middle eastern regimes built on oil � Gas extraction and transportation has just as many humanitarian and environmental �dings� against it as mining. We could solve and mitigate those concerns, and still have EVs. When it comes to any green technology, they are all in their infancy compared to internal combustion engines, battery recycling is advancing at leaps and bounds, wind turbine blades are also beginning to be repurposed. Remember after a hundred years, the most that internal combustion engines could muster was a bleak 25-40% efficiency. But all of that said, we are all adults who can make informed decisions and decide how much we are dedicated to hopefully treating earth as well as we feel we can. For some people they might do nothing, me, I drive cars I like sometimes that I know aren�t as environmentally friendly as the alternative but I try to be mindful in other ways. What none of us should do its rely on really poor arguments that align with what we wish to be true because it�s convenient. All that said, I hold out great hope for Porsche�s synthetic fuel production in the future, nothing would make me happier than to fill up my car with some $10 a gallon low emissions juice.

Recently I had to fake interest when my neighbor wanted to show me his new Model Y. It would have been more exciting to check out a new vacuum or dishwasher. But according to the people who fly private jets to climate summits, he�s saving the planet. So congrats to him

Many choose to ignore the massive environmental damage done to the earth from the mining of materials needed to make batteries and iPhones. Not to mention the inability to recycle these things. I can only imagine the commercials we will see in 10 years about saving the whales and turtles from plastic and aluminum trash in the Pacific and saving something else from the massive waste sites with non-recyclable batteries and electronic trash. Another inconvenient truth. The only solution is to stop the madness and buy a 996. I'll take an ice powered 996 running biofuel any day. While its exhaust may smell like a french fry, it's going to be cleaner fuel from start to finish along the process. ​​​​​​

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It's not true at all that you cannot recycle lithium ion batteries. The technology is already in use in Asia and Europe and making it's way to the US now. I'm an engineer/project manager actively working on just such a project. The technology exists. Batteries are disassembled, discharged, shredded, and separated into their base materials first by physical separation and then by chemical extractions eventually rendering out base materials that can go back into new battery production.

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The sheer fact that the original writer thinks that Einstein's theory of relativity equating energy to mass times the speed of light squared is the same thing as Newton's second law applied to two equivalent masses discredits the rest of the drivel. The article acts like we aren't already mining all of those materials and again as I said in another post they state FALSELY that we don't know how to recycle li-ion batteries. I am actively working on a project with proven technology to do just that. I'm not super excited about EV's because the US infrastructure is not ready for everyone to be charging cars all night simultaneously in neighborhoods nor do I like the idea of twiddling my thumbs for 20 minutes every few hours on a long road trip but don't try to pull the wool over my eyes with nonsense either.

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I suspect we can recycle just about anything we want. Just like we can with plastic and aluminum. But, it just so happens we have a trash problem in the Pacific from 3rd world countries that choose to recycle by throwing the trash in the ocean. What makes you think this is going to change? It won't. Better off with biofuel.

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I don�t think people ignore the damage done by mining they are just cognizant of the fact that petroleum extraction and transportation is massively problematic as well, like I mentioned above; oil tanker spills; underwater extraction catastrophes, gulf war� I would say that to the extent EV fans ignore mining problems; auto enthusiasts are as likely or more likely to ignore oil extraction and transport problems. In fact I don�t think I�m the last 5 years of seeing enthusiasts bicker about EVs and mining I�ve ever seen someone counterpoint the huge environmental impact of oil extraction. (And even biofuels as you mention have a big environmental and good source impact though less humanitarian impact). I guess to me, I never get why car enthusiasts get their undies all in a bunch about what other people like and buy; and get defensive about the science. Consumer auto use is a big source of CO2 emissions but it isn�t the biggest; there�s other low hanging fruit to advocate for while enjoying your car. And, if other people buy the cars- it really pushes things in the right direction without us having to do squat. We should jump for joy when people buy EVs; it doesn�t effect us at all. And really sports cars seem to be maintaining a decent foothold in the market and gas infrastructure will inevitably be around for at least 50 years.

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Agree with your thoughts. Debate is good. Still bullish on the 996.

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Should we be jumping for joy because the government is banning the sale of the internal combustion engine? Jump for joy that the government NOT consumer demand is forcing the auto industry switch to EVs?

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i agree with you that infra structure is not there. Two quick examples that I saw with my own eyes this week. Planet Hollywood 2500 rooms, 5 chargers. The shops at the Venetian 3 chargers, some places no chargers at all. We saw these because as we went to different hotels, etc to eat watch shows the Uber or shared ride pick ups where sometimes in the garages. I would really like to know how much they were charging in Vegas to these cars on the chargers. Vegas unleaded regular $5.17/gallons, here by my house shell regular $3.75.

Porsche's new mystery fuel is probably based on synthetic alcohol with some benzine or nitro or other exotic fuel mixed in. Alcohol is a very good fuel, don't drink it and **** it away, burn it in your ICE !! https://www.americanenergyindependen...olengines.aspx

Porsche spends a lot. (A lot.) Of money to find out who buys their cars and what sort of cars those people want to buy. This is your answer.

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So people want mediocre 4 cylinder SUVs. Great

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Hah! People don't know what they want. That's what marketing is for.

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Meanwhile I�m bidding on a gas gusler cayenne GTS last of the awesome V8 engines. If anyone has never heard one of these you should, awesome exhaust rumbles.

I think this is all marketing hype across the whole industry. As soon as everything swaps to electric, we'll see cars swapping back to ICE.. Just like when they tried to make every car a PDK, and people still wanted manuals. People are going to have to learn the hard way that this wasn't a good idea. Me, well I'll be driving an old VW with dual carburetors, and a set of ignition points. They can do what they want.

I think it's silly when a manufacturer announces they are going all-electric (thankfully Porsche is not). I bet they reverse decision when they realize they are only targeting a very small portion of the auto buying public

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Amen brother. Pure EV is not the future. It's only a stepping stone to the next generation of hybrids. Need ICE to power the inadequacy of battery technology. What I want is a couple of hundred miles to a gallon of fuel. But Porsche knows that already. They know that pure EV is a fad that they need to carve out "mindshare" now so they can sell their F1 derived biofuel hybrid power plants way into the future. Sheer genius on Porsche's part. In the meantime, Jake will be rebuilding more and more ICE engines because people will want them. Pure EV Cars = Laser Discs

I will bet you dollars to donuts that when Porsche comes out with a hybrid or all electric 911 it will run circles around the ICE version. I love my ICE 996 which I have had for almost 22 years, and I loved the previous 911s and 928s that I have had, but each generation has been better than the last. I prefer the "purity" of the 996 but the 991 and 992 are much faster, comfortable, safe, etc. etc. And we might as well face it EV's are the future whether we like it or not. AS for me at 67 I plan on keeping my 996 as long as I am able to drive and then I will probably give it to one of the kids or grandkids (if they will take it).

Funniest thing I ever watched was Formula E racing when they had to change the cars at mid race because the batteries couldn't hold enough energy to get the car thru the entire race. Yes, battery technology improved so they can complete a race with one car, but barely. Porsche got involved with Formula E and after 2 years they said they learned everything they possibly can. Then they announced their biofuel project, then they began talking with F1 on biofuel powered hybrids. They know what they are doing. The media and political class doesn't.

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Manufacturers are responding to little tyrants like Governor Hairdo of California who signed an executive order banning the sale of gas cars by 2035. Several states have followed and the same thing is happening in Europe. Washington state set a date of 2030. The switch to EVs is based on government decree not on consumer demand.

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Absolutely. I was going to say something along those lines, but then decided to not get political.

This thread:

What is it?

Might not have much of a choice with rising emissions standards. Not profitable to make a car if you can't sell it.

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Executive orders or other such pseudo laws with start dates far in the future are merely political tools to enhance politicians reputation with one group or another. As time moves along these type of executive action will bring law suits and legislative action to delay them further or outright cancel them.

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I missed your guys' comments but I think the point with the 4-pots is Porsche realizes there's a large crop of people that want a Porsche badge before they want "Porsche performance."

Feel like there is a lot of denial in this thread but ultimately manufactures will go where the money is. The 996 is a perfect example, upset a lot of purists that owned previous generations, helped stream line mass production and pushed Porsche into a new age. Just like Porsche today doesn't make the same car they made 20 years ago, they cater to a market that wants more luxury. I would imagine once range anxiety and the cost of electrics comes down there are going to be a lot of adopters that push manufactures further from gas. I mean I love my combustion engines but I am not against electric, it would honestly be perfect for a family like mine.

Moto, No denying. But EV is not the future. It's just an evolution towards clean hybrids which will integrate EV with clean ICE. I see no intermediate practicality with EV due to its charging limitations and distance limitations other than to use locally for soccer games and groceries. But maybe that is enough for affluent families who are the buyers. The remaining 80% of the population won't bite because it's not practical. In 5-7 years, we will have clean burning hybrids that are self charging and get 250 miles to the gallon. Why in the world would you want an EV knowing what's coming?

How do I know? All you have to do is see what the car manufacturers are doing with racing technology. They are not spending money on EV racing, they are spending money on hybrid racing and in particular harnessing energy from braking and exhaust. What was a low tech aspect of the auto industry (brakes and exhaust) are becoming one of the most high tech areas. Look at what audi did with their turbo diesel hybrids, porsche with their 919 Turbo 4 hybrids and f1 in the turbo 6 hybrids and new evolution to 2026 standards of which porsche will be a participant with their efuel turbo hybrid powered engines. You can even look further to WEC and IMSA with the hybrid hyper cars. Same thing. Formula E... Come on. It's an afterthought by the car companies. Actions speak louder than words. Actions suggest turbo hybrids.

Emissions from consumer vehicles (especially luxury and performance vehicles) are such an small piece of global emissions that I agree mandating zero-emissions is not the way to save the planet. However, I really wonder where you guys are that you say consumers are not motivated by MPG and interested in EVs. I live in southern California and nothing could be further from the truth. For example, if I lived in West Virginia, I obviously wouldn't buy a Tesla to plug into my local coal power plant. If I lived in San Francisco, I might consider a Toyota Mirai because of the convenience of the hydrogen fuel-cell stations. Here, though, the overwhelming majority of people are choosing EVs and plug-in-hybrids because we have cheap, clean electricity and constantly developing charging infrastructure. My buddy works for EV Pros, a company that installs upgraded electrical panels and chargers in peoples garages and they are doing multiple jobs pulling permits from cities all over Orange County every single day. So to say that consumers aren't interested in EVs is either a regional observation, denial, or ignorance. But I agree consumers aren't directly destroying the planet, and we need to lower emissions in the shipping industry. We need cooperation from foreign governments. In my view we need people to start thinking and acting more locally. We need a whole restructuring of the system. Make no mistake, that day will come, but it will probably be too late. And until then it falls on every individual to make personal sacrifices to try and do everything they can to prevent additional climate change, or to do what most people do, and say "Ah well China" and just keep living their life without making any sacrifice. Hence the photo of Kid Rock just vibin' on his 'stang. Edit: also to be clear I don't think buying an EV is how you save the planet. I think for most people the "greenest" option is to keep the car they have now, whatever it is, for as long as possible, and just be mindful about not being wasteful if it has high emissions. Going out and buying a brand new EV and sending your car to the junkyard cant be a net positive for the environment. Also, lets say you drive your car 5k miles a year at 10mpg. You're still polluting much less than someone who drives 20k miles at 35 mpg. So don't be afraid to throw that in their face.

It all depends on what breakthroughs real science will bring rather than politicized science or vanity science. Quite frankly, I have grown tired of all the climate gigolos, Davos jet-setting crowd, and all of those people who feel the need to redeem their shallow existence by lecturing everyone on their perceived destruction of the earth. I think that we will solve most of these problems as long as we continue to have individuals rather than collectives.

Thanks for the Kid Rock explanation. I get what you are saying. Clearly people are buying Tesla's and now buying Porsche EVs. Yep, and CA folks are buying more than anyone else. Some want to save the planet and some want the latest cool thing. Some want both. I love elon musk and his innovation. I love how he is pushing the energy and EV revolution. What I really love is where this revolution is going to take the car industry. Don't mistake my points, without EV, we won't have 250 mpg clean burning hybrids. Without racing programs, we wouldn't have new technology. But the reality is that we do not have the infrastructure in the developed nor developing world to support EV cars on a mass basis. Nor will we ever. Too costly to implement for a 5-7 year time period as the car industry evolves to clean hybrids. Politicians will walk their walk and talk their talk, but at the end of the day, Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, FIAT, etc. Are going to spend their money evolving to high MPG hybrids because that's the practical future. 1 charge in an EV may get you 350 miles. Then you have to recharge which takes time and a way to do it. 1 tank of gas at 25 mpg in a 15 gallon car gets you 375 miles. But you can refill the car anywhere in 5 min. 1 tank of efuel in future hybrid at 250 mpg in a 15 gallon car gets you 3,750 miles. What would you choose?

I would choose the hybrid for sure. But I drive so little that for me it makes the most sense just to keep the 996. I guess that was my point. For someone who drives A LOT, an EV with a home charger might be the best option at this moment. I don't know. I know its certainly not the best option for me and I would be harming the environment for no reason if I went and bought an EV I don't need. Personally I don't have a lot of faith in EVs, it just seems like the battery tech is horrible that they need to be so big and heavy. But my opinion means diddly squat. Everyone around me is buying an EV. for now.

Its a good topic with long legs. No right or wrong answer because it's an evolution over time. Just like you, I'll keep driving my 996 long into the future with petrol and then eFuel.

How far are we away from a car that gets me 3750 miles per tank versus 350 miles per charge? Average American drives 30 miles a day, that is less than a full charge of a battery a week. I think a lot of it would depend on where you live but between the two I would go with whatever catches my eye to be honest.

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I think you nailed it with the regional appeal of electric cars. Living in CA you are in a place with great infrastructure for EVs, as well as mild climate and the highest gas prices. EVs don't, or at least didn't, perform as efficiently in extreme hot or cold, suffering from significantly reduced range. My cousin in Chicago had a Leaf (2014 I think) and in the winter his range was less than half of what it was normally. Also, with their limited ranges, regenerative braking, and typical location of charging stations they tend to be best suited for individuals living in big cities. The infrastructure to rely on an electric car as your only vehicle isn't there in a lot of the U.S., especially outside of the big cities. The West Coast is definitely leading the way in infrastructure, but even on the West coast the ease of owning an electric car can be vary dramatically. For example owning an electric car in Seattle 5 years ago was still far easier than owning an electric car in Spokane today. And Spokane isn't exactly small. It's the second largest city in WA and has a metro area of about 650,000. I sill remember living in the lower Hudson Valley in NY in 2016-2017 and Boston in 2018-2020 and seeing a lot of charging stations only just then popping up, when they had been in CA and the Seattle area for years already. For me personally, until you can charge an electric car as fast as you can fill a tank of gas I will never choose to rely on one. Hell, I'm not happy anytime I go to one of the newly build gas stations, since the new pumps are so much slower and it takes like twice as long to fill a tank, and even then that's only 5 minutes. Also, if I remember correctly CA has/does do some state tax credits for hybrids and EVs on top of the federal ones, which certainly boosts the appeal further in the state.

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What a lot of folks don't realize is the 918 got 100 mpg. Don't know what the setting was that you had to use to get it. But every car manufacturer will be taking their EV, ICE, battery and energy regeneration technology as far as they can to move the needle in mpg. If we can't eliminate our global dependency on fuel, we can certainly stretch it as far as we can with technology in as clean of a manner as possible. The race is on for mpg. The only way to get it is integrating ice and Ev. That in itself cleans up the globe. Add in cleaner burning eFuel and you have a win win. 250 mpg is coming. Just wish I new the exact date. If I did, I would be able to buy everyone on the thread a 996 GT3 engine right out of the crate.

Another thing to think about too, is what upgrades to the power system are we going to need if everyone switches to electric? In a lot of places this infrastructure is already inadequate and outdated. And then throw in natural disasters and we have an even bigger mess. Look at all the power issues throughout TX and LA that happened last year. New Orleans was with out power for 2 weeks and some of the surrounding areas for even longer after Ida back in September. Now imagine if everyone was relying on electricity for their cars too? And also for the evacuations.

Absolutely key point. No way we can go all EV. Not enough money in all the central banks around the world to make it happen.

I'm personally curious to see where we truly arrive in 2030. This rush to EV's seems like an industry reaction to Tesla, who somehow managed to out-value every other auto manufacturer combined with 5 EV products, 2 of which are vaporware (Roadster & Cybertruck.) The appeal is there and the idea is there, the market is now trying to get everybody to adopt and push the ball down the field. However, as others have pointed out, I believe we are going to see a lot of unexpected infrastructure growing pains that come with wide adoption of a new technology. I'm speculating that in 2030 we will actually see a back-pedaling to synthetic fuels and hybrid technology as others have noted. I agree wholeheartedly with @GC996 , if you look at F1 and the direction they are committed to moving - it's synthetic fuels run on hybrid powertrains, not electric power.

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The big issue in Texas was that Centerpoint energy did not winterize the plants, as If you forgot to cover your outside faucet with insulation. I think electric could be ok but here in Texas other than maybe Austin there is not much infrastructure, also yesterday I paid with my t mobile discount $4.34 a gallon to fill the p car with shell v power 93. If you go down south in Texas to go to the beaches no charging stations in sight. In the future i would take a F150 lighting, i want to allow Ford to fix the quirks first. What I like about the truck is one there is no engine so that�s a frunk, it can power your house.

The newly proposed Rivian EV truck plant is set to be built 10 miles from the FSI R&D facility. Our whole community has come together to oppose it, and along the way we’ve learned a lot about the EV culture and what is driving it. We are in opposition because we want thousands of acres of farm land to remain farm land, and we do not want a two lane road turning into a freeway. We don’t want, or need the jobs that its bringing, because local businesses already can’t find help. Last week Rivian brought 5 trucks to a local event. Guess how they arrived? On the back of a diesel powered truck. They would not drive them, because they have a lousy range of something like 150 miles. All this EV stuff is a fad. It’ll fizzle out before the government mandates ever take shape. I would not mind building my own hybrid, using a single cylinder Kubota diesel generator in the back of a Prius, as long as I could make it not look like I was actually driving a Prius. That’s about the extent of my interest in anything that is even remotely associated with an EV.

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since I had bought 3 new F150s since 2015, I was invited to test drive a prototype f 150 lightning. Accelerates great, the interior space is exactly why I like the super crew cab. The price wasnt bad about $43000 like I wanted it at the moment. What I like about it, 1. No engine so the frunk is a covered storage space, 2. it can power your house with the right set up so I�m not buying a generator. My dislikes, always new models have quirks and I don�t want those, we take the truck on a lot of trips to the beach here south Texas (north padre (corpus), south padre, port aransas etc, not a lot of electric charging stations over where we would travel long distances, now if you live in Austin there�s a bunch of stuff there. I�m invested in Rivian thru Ford ownership. The F150 lighting 2022 production is sold out as your engine program it is going to depend on how demand Goes for the vehicles. Porsche will be Tesla�s high performance competition, Ford will be the vehicle for the masses. Rivian , Neo and all the others will fill the empty space. FYI people from Austin are actually pissed because with all the Tesla activity there, housing cost is going thru the roof. Sorry this is going to happen on your neck of the woods.

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I think we will beat it.. Lots of shady stuff is going on, and with Rivian being so unstable I think the purpose of the plant isn�t even real. I believe someone else wants the land, and it�ll end up being a huge data center, because Rivian will collapse before a single tool to build a truck is moved in to the building. Facebook already has a facility just down the road..

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yes I have my suspisions. I bought Ford at $5 so they were early investors in Rivian. If I want more exposure I�ll buy more Ford stock. Ford is going bananas on the electric front and they sell a lot of cars. Nivio is a better play as they are the largest ev manufacturer and they are in the largest ev market in the world China. For now I�ll keep on filling my 36 gallon tank on my F150, with the Kroger discount i paid $2.79 for regular and the Porsche with the shell v power 93 t mobile discount $4.34. Keep on doing what you are doing, we just need to be like Panasonic �anticipating the future�, my strategy is to sell some of my pure exploration and production stock COP, and invest in stuff that will be hot in the next 10-15 years. I�m not completely exiting COP, I�m just trimming my position because oil is high and will go higher by summer. Good luck. 👍

The stupid thing about the EVs we have gotten so far is how inefficiently they use electricity. Elon is not a car guy, he is a tech guy. And it shows when he builds the fastest production car in the world, and then gives it 5 seats, makes it weigh 2.5 tons, and an irrelevant 500 mile range. It should obviously be two different cars. A hyper efficient family commuter and a track weapon. When you cram it all into the same vehicle you end up with something that makes no sense, in my view. Jack of all trades, master of none.

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I read where he has become the richest man in the world. Yeah sometimes some of the stuff he does it�s wacko. Met a guy yesterday that has a 991.2 targa 4S and was telling me that their model Y performance package 2021, is faster to 120 that the Porsche. !The model Y is an SUV!!!!! REMEMBER money talks bull**** walks.

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I think you just described the Panamera and Cayenne.

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To a certain extent, yep. Definitely the performance models fall into this category. Along with the BMW X5-M, the Audi RSQ8. But I think the model S plaid really is the flagship of nonsense-mobiles.

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this thing is crazy. I wasn�t aware of how fast this thing is. I�ll hope Porsche comes along and makes stuff that�s even faster.

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Oh boy, what does a guy need to accomplish in this world stop getting stupid criticisms thrown at him. Beyond ridiculous. The Model Y and Model 3 are the main vehicles for Tesla. Plaid is a muscle flex. Nuff said.

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Did you notice that I criticized Porsche, Audi, and BMW for their behemoth performance crossovers as well? The difference being they also make driver's cars like M2, M4, R8, 911, etc. Tesla only makes 4 people movers that are variations of the same basic shape. The model 3 and model Y performance are stupid vehicles in my opinion. There is no reason for that acceleration on a people mover. The base models make perfect sense in their eco-mode, but the performance models with ludicrous mode is stupidly inefficient on a car that weighs nearly 5,000 lbs and that's how everyone drives them around. Tesla Roadster was a cool car. They don't make a cool car at the moment, in my opinion. Waiting for them to make another.

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To say Elon is not a car guy is crazy. McLaren F1 owner, has other amazing collector cars like the Lotus James Bond Sub. His Roadster in orbit right now. Started the only successful American car company since Chrysler with highest gross margins in the industry, I'd say he's a car guy +. Don't get me wrong, I agree with you on what a sports car should be, I have an NSX and S2000 and the 99 996, but I don't need Tesla to scratch that itch for me. On our third Tesla now, just got Model S, fast as hell and amazing in many ways. Disagree on Model 3 and Y, and consumer surveys show people love them, and for many reasons, not the least of which is the horn can play la cucaracha. .

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I'm wrong about him being a car guy then, I didn't know he collected cars. What I meant was his company doesn't make a car for car guys. Beyond being a 2nd vehicle for guys like you who also own sports cars. I agree the model S plaid is amazing technology. Imagine what it could be if it wasn't forced to have space for a family of 7 + luggage. The 2nd gen roadster could answer my call if it ever arrives.

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Agreed. Tesla cars are not built for car guys. They are built for affluent families who have enough money for an extra local mode of transportation that is "kinda neat". In 20 years people will look back in time and say... "Remember when the Tesla was the rage in the 2020's?". Elon Must is a genius and single handedly created the EV revolution.. But he isn't invincible. Very shortly he will have more competition than he will know how to handle in the EV space and then with the next evolution of hybrids. This isn't a slam on Musk, Tesla, or the EV. Instead is a summation of the reality capitalism and the evolutionary process caused by creative destruction.

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There are a bunch of rumors and many questions had been asked about the Apple car. The company is pretty good at keeping secrets so who knows what�s coming. As of the last few years they have been talking to Porsche so that�s pretty good vehicle engineering. Apple normally just makes something that already exists and makes it better. Also Apple has the war chest to spend a ton of money on research and development. I�ll say something could be in the market by 2025.

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Tesla's patents are open source, they invite competition. They want a smaller percentage of a much larger market, only way to grow super huge. As the only player they're growth gets eventually stunted. They also claim an altruistic nature, moving the world to sustainable energy. Not sure I buy that last one as much.

I ride a bicycle to the office. It�s about 8 miles one way. I had a coworker that lived literally 2 blocks away from the office and would drive their Tesla in instead of walking. This pains me more than ICE vs EV. I like cars for sport but I dislike cars for M-F transportation. The light rail has 3 stops all within 2-3 blocks from the office but no one takes it because parking is free and abundant. I think it�s funny that the company offers EV charging and public transportation benefit but when I asked the benefits team if they ever thought about giving cyclist like me a free meal from the cafeteria once a week they said there�s nothing they can do.

Don't think I would like a tenfold increase in cyclists invading cities. We're not setup for it.

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No we're not setup for it, but we could be. I'll bike with you. Its fun. The first time I rode an ebike I was trying to be macho and put it in max power mode - almost lost control of the dang thing. I feel that even with EVs and self driving, the future will just look like this

A little late for walkable cities when my entire town is covered in 8-lane collector stroads with 4-way traffic signals with protected left hand turn every 1/8th mile. We made our bed now we have to drive on it.

I always wanted a Ducati desert scrambler to tool around town.

I saw in the news today porsche is looking at quantumscape batteries.. glad I bought some of their stock a while back 😉

Porsche is not making any more cars at the moment. Unfortunately a lot of their wiring harnesses come from Ukraine. Meanwhile, a guy it�s auctioning his cayenne gts because he has gone electric, maybe I�ll win it. It�s white so for that one if I�m the successful bidder the license plate is going to read , �MYWHTHO�