Suspension: ROW M030 vs Feals coilovers

Hello, I'm ready to do a suspension replacement on my C4 that has vanilla US suspension - there's too much travel and the car always feels a bit unsettled, and either the strut bearings or control arm bearings need replacement due to creaking, anyways. The car is only driven on the street, much of it on terribly neglected pavement. I'd like a firm ride with minimal roll that doesn't slam my spine on every bump. I'm way over budget on the car due to unexpected maintenance issues and am trying to keep this project as inexpensive as I can. I was originally thinking of going for basic Feals 441 coilovers because it would simplify the parts bill (I don't believe they need separate strut mounts, etc), but I did find a ROW M030 kit that I could add additional parts to to make complete. I'm hesitating on the Feals because I've never ridden on them and am not sure how firm they are. What would you choose for street? I believe I would need upgraded sways with either option and would appreciate recommendations there as well. Thanks!

I’m very happy with my Feals. I‘ve also installed them on another C2 and a C4. The Feals offer adjustability to get the height and rebound where YOU want it. Mine is currently set higher than M030 due to speed bumps and steep driveways. If I’d gone with M030, I’d be unhappy. I’m running stock swaybar with new bushings. The only thing that I’d suggest adding is adjustable swaybar links and if you’re dropping it low, you’ll likely need adjustable rear toe arms.

I can't speak to the Feals at all, but in general coilovers are the way to go. The adjustability will let you get everything exactly where you want and typically will give you better ride quality at the performance level. If you do go M030, I would recommend swapping the the B8s for Koni Actives. The performance will be just as good when you need it, but they will be far less harsh on the bad roads.

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I am swapping to a custom built set of Feals here very soon. I can report the difference between them and my current setup. I will have a nearly brand new set of the Koni Actives for sale if anybody is interested in them.

@ TexSquirrel Did you stick with the factory set preload setting ?

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Yes, in all 3 cases.

I guess I'll be letting you know when I get home in Sept, I'm swapping my M030 for a GT3 suspension. Feels is well regarded here too.

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Thanks for the tip. I will be installing mine this weekend.

I have Feal 441 installed. Handles great, with excellent compliance. I honestly don't understand why people would pick the ROW M030 over a good adjustable coilover setup, but we see that a lot on Rennlist. Get the Feal coilovers and don't look back.

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In my case, cost was a consideration. Back in 2017 when I bought the ROW M030 kit it was $1,300.00 and that was shocks, springs and sway bars. The same kit is now $3,000.00 which should make coilovers a no-brainer. I actually tried to buy a Sachs coilover setup two years ago but couldn't find any place that had it in stock. I'm still considering coilovers but definitely not Feals.

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Why not??

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Because the reality is 99% of people who are only on the street don't touch their suspension after it's installed, or they might touch it once. They get it set where they want then never touch it again. The amount of adjustments are usless if you're never using them and most people don't even fully understand what those adjustments do. They might be able to regurgitate what they read those things are, but they wouldn't know how to correctly change anything based on handling characteristics/problems...

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But Feals start at $1400. ROW is about $3000. Why pay twice as much, even if they get set and never changed?

What about the Billstein B16 PSS10 coil over set up?

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that was my thought process when I got the Feal coil overs. I spent less than going with OEM components. Seemed like a no brainer

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That was not a good justification. You don�t only buy coilovers to be making constant adjustments. You can also buy them so you can set it exactly the way you want it. Springs and struts is a guessing game, and you are stuck with a certain drop or a certain stiffness. I adjusted my damping a few times when I first got it. Haven�t touched it again in years.

To be fair, the ROW rides nicely and I guess there is some allure of using an OEM upgrade. I've driven @barbancourt .1 and he's driven my .2, It's not really apples to apples because I have RS engine mounts so the car rides inherently differently. His car is very very smooth considering how low it is and honestly if I didn't already have a GT3 suspension laying around... I'd go with the Feels. OP are you looking to add wheels or bigger tires?

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No doubt, @TheChunkNorris . The M030 rides very nicely. When I drove your car, at no time did I think it wasn't a good suspension. I think people have a lot of misconceptions about the use case for, and difficulty of setting up adjustable coilovers. The fact that your car, which is quickly becoming one of the iconic examples of a tastefully modified 996, is receiving a change in suspension from M030 to adjustable coilovers speaks volumes. I think a lot of people remember some terrible bargain basement coilover, setup incorrectly, that they rode in 20 years ago and think that is what they feel like.

I just did the same upgrade for my 2003 C2. The car had the original suspension and was feeling pretty loose. I looked into the cost of doing an OEM replacement with the stock suspension, but knew that I would want to lower the car a bit once I'm not having to deal with the steep driveway cutouts and the pathetic conditions of the pavement in San Francisco. After looking at the cost of the OEM and the flexibility to make the adjustments with the coilovers, I opted to go that route. I did a fair amount of research and spoke with the guys at Feal and opted to go that route. I'm really happy with the result. The car sits a little lower than stock and feels so much more planted. I've only had them installed for the past month, so still playing around with them, but overall really glad I went down this path. Looking forward to getting them out on the track soon too!

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4 new Bilstein B8 shocks/struts and ROW springs are less than $1400 and you get the valving of Bilsteins vs some cheap chinese stuff. That's why coilovers are superior to just springs/shocks, because you can adjust them based on track and road conditions. That's why they were developed. Springs and struts aren't a guessing game, you know exactly how low you're going to get dropped and know the spring rate if you ask for it. The "guessing game" is matching it to the shock (which isn't a guessing game either if you ask the manufacturer for specs and know how to interpret the data). Fact is, most people just dunno how to interpret it and are afraid to ask. And just like you pointed out, once you had it adjusted you never touched it again...which kind of defeats the purpose of having all those adjustments if you're never using them to compensate for different conditions (even as simple as changing to different wheels). Since you haven't been adjusting anything for driving conditions, you essentially have a spring shock combo that you coulda had made to spec and it have higher reliability (from having a higher quality shock like Konis or Bilsteins for example). People get so enamored by adjustability when in fact, they never use it past the beginning if ever at all. And if they did their homework once, they could get the exact spring rate and the better dampening of a Koni or Bilstein over some cheaper chinese shock that likely feels like poop or constantly needs to be rebuilt....a cheap coilover just requires no homework and that's attractive to a LOT of people. Nevermind that some people just like to say they have coil overs instead of springs and shocks. That's the reality of it...whether people want to admit it or not.

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A lot to unpack here. First of all, I never said that I didn't adjust it. I set it, then made a few adjustments to the height to get it exactly how I wanted it. I also corner balanced it, which you can't do with non-adjustables. Non-adjustables are a guessing game because you think you will get certain drop, but it might not be exact, and it might change once it settles and you do not have an exact way to know what you are getting... hence the "guessing game". If, as you suggested, I change my wheel/tire setup and for some reason my current height doesn't work, then guess what... I don't need to change my suspension, I can just adjust my current one. My coilovers also do not feel like "poop". Not sure what you are basing that off, but you are way out of bounds on this. It's also silly to suggest that we coilover owners are doing it for vanity purposes. Let's just ignore that all Porsche GT cars come with adjustable suspension from the factory. There's a reason why. Personally, the decision for me was I wanted to set it at an exact height. I didn't want wheel gap, and I wanted a sporty ride.

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I moved from stock suspension to billstein PSS9 coilovers back in 2007 for the primary reason of better handling on the track. Took me a few track days with help from my indy to figure out what all around settings worked the best for me at our 3 local tracks. After it was set up, including the tarret sway bars, I never touched the suspension again. Didn't care that my teeth rattled on the street. Still don't. I kinda like it. But if your just looking for a refresh of your suspension, anything is better than 20 year old shocks and springs. Funny thing is that I plan on replacing my suspension next year with a focus still on the track, and will dial it in and probably never adjust it again. But im not looking for a cushy ride. But just in case, it nice to know you can change the adjustments if you want too. But i know i wont.

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You did say you didn't adjust it, you said "you adjusted it a few times at the beginning and haven't touched it in years." I was inferring if nothing else changed after those adjustments, that's HW you could have done on a set of custom springs and shocks and netted the same result without any of the trial and error of adjusting at the beginning. That was my point, being able to net the same end result without any trial and error at the beginning. There's nothing wrong with the trial and error at the beginning, doing or not doing the HW isn't a slight against you, but please don't act like it's a guessing game when it's not. How do you think the Porsche engineers decided on what spring rates and shock valving they decided on for the car, guessing? And those GT cars come with coilovers cause a good bit of those people are buying them to track them, and be able to adjust on the fly, which is what I stated previously. I'm 10000% aware of the benefits of coil overs, corner balancing, being able to change based on wheels, etc... I wasn't aiming this at you, but generally speaking....and generally speaking most DO do it for vanity, hence the whole cheap chinese market exploding because most people are buying them to slam their car and then using all sorts of "value" justifications on performancewhen really, those cheaper coils aren't even in the same ballpark as the nicer stuff in almost any aspect, let alone performance. That whole you-get-what-you-pay-for is probably most true with suspension than anything else as far as the car is concerned. Performance is, whether they admit it or not, last or at the very least not a priority, rather a "good enough" balance for what they paid. People save money for things that are priorities and/or balance the cost of said priorities with what their needs/wants are.....if it was anywhere even near a priority, they wouldn't deviate from brands like the Ohlins, Bilsteins, KWs, etc that are proven to perform well and there's no guessing game there. Most people (myself included for automobiles, different story for motorcycles) haven't the slightest clue how to properly adjust a set of coilovers. There's a difference of what "feels good" and what actually performs better and they aren't always exclusive to eachother. And almost every single person I've ever met, if they've ridden in a car with a nice set of coils, won't go near cheaper ones because they also don't feel good when concerned predominantly with performance. Again, not sure why you thought that was aimed at you, it was generally speaking...but a simple search around the forum definity proves it is mostly about vanity with performance often a distant 2nd.

I think the new offering from HRE is the wave of the future. " Our engineers were so preoccupied with whether they could, they didn�t stop to think if they should. Introducing the world�s first coil over Spoke Undulation System, �SUS� - designed from the ground up to exist. "

I think that’s an April fools joke but could be viable if you run solid rubber would be great for off-road

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The wheel barrel would have to get permanently damaged for those springs to even come into play.