Ok, here's what I am confronted with.
I can wait until March/April (May or June??) 2006 for a spec'd Cayman S.
OR...
Dealer has a bare bones 2005 997 S on the lot just sitting there. Only notable options it has are the chrono pkg and power seat pkg. I can get this puppy for less than invoice and drive off the lot with it by week end.
In the end, the spec'd Cayman S and this 997 S would be about the same price wise (in fact, the 997 would probably be cheaper).
What would you do?
i guess it woudl depend on how long you are going to keep it for. the 911 will have a better risidual value than the cayman.
As much as I love the Cayman, I'd have to go with the 997S in that case. It is just the better performance vehicle for the money.
You get 60 more hp, 19' wheels, PASM, Bi-Xenons, sport wheel, and Turbo brakes standard. And the Cayman may be incredible, but nobody will ever mock you for driving a Carrera S for the same money.
Of course,
you
have to be happy in the end.
So much for the 997 retaining long term value better than its predecessor as some have suggested (hoped?). Supposedly the 997s are "scarce" and not discounted, but I have found neither to be true and your posting confirms that these cars are being significantly discounted which is always reflected in resale eventually. Anyway to answer your question, it really becomes a matter of personal taste more than economics. In a few months you'll also be able to choose a CaymanS off the lot and get a similarly good deal. I think that the premium always comes with ordering exactly what you want as opposed to what the dealer has. How important is it to you that the car reflects your taste or is a generic "spec" car? The local dealer has a couple of 997 and 997S, but I'm just burned out on the 911. I've been looking at that shape for too long and it's just not interesting to me anymore. I think Porsche has done a great job keeping the 911 fresh and highly capable, but the Cayman just appeals to me as a new look in a mid-engine platform I prefer, and finally with enough grunt to make it fun.
From a value perspective you have to go with the 997S, unless it is some weird color combination. Unless you optioned a Cayman in excess of $85,000, I am amazed you can find a 997S for close to the price of a Cayman. I just checked Cars.com for used 997s and did not see anything close to this in the So Cal market.
JHellow
I'm surprised you could find a 997 S for this price, MSRP should be in the low 80's meaning Invoice around $73-75K, that's a pretty loaded up Cayman S for that price. Was it the dealer demo? Does it have a prior owner? Was it shipped in from New Orleans?
'/fckeditor/editor/images/smiley/MWPX/beer1.gifWas it shipped in from New Orleans?
'
The price really doesn't sound correct.
My spec'd out Cayman S comes out to 78K MSRP.
Here are the details:
<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" style="border-collapse: collapse;">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td colspan="4" style="border-bottom: 1px solid rgb(224, 224, 224);">
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="padding: 0px 2px; width: 976px; height: 0px;" id="l_De">
<td width="40" align="center" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);">
</td>
<td width="553" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<p align="left" class="text11B">Description
</td>
<td width="280" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<p align="left" class="text11B">No.
</td>
<td width="100" align="right" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);" id="price">
<p align="right" class="text11B">Price
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="padding: 0px 2px; width: 976px; height: 0px;" id="l_987120">
<td width="40" align="center" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);"></td>
<td width="553" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<p align="left" class="text11">Cayman S
</td>
<td width="280" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);"></td>
<td width="100" align="right" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);" id="price">
<p align="right" class="text11">$58,900
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="4" style="border-bottom: 1px solid rgb(224, 224, 224);">
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="padding: 0px 2px; width: 976px; height: 0px;" id="l_Op">
<td width="40" align="center" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);"></td>
<td width="553" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<p align="left" class="text12B">Optional
</td>
<td width="280" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);"></td>
</tr>
<tr style="padding: 0px 2px; width: 976px; height: 0px;" id="l_Ex">
<td width="40" align="center" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);"></td>
<td width="553" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<p align="left" class="text11B">Exterior Color
</td>
<td width="280" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);"></td>
</tr>
<tr style="padding: 0px 2px; width: 976px; height: 0px;" id="l_FX1">
<td width="40" align="center" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);"></td>
<td width="553" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<p align="left" class="text11">Arctic Silver Metallic
</td>
<td width="280" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<p align="left" class="text11">X1
</td>
<td width="100" align="right" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);" id="price">
<p align="right" class="text11">$825
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="4" style="border-bottom: 1px solid rgb(224, 224, 224);">
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="padding: 0px 2px; width: 976px; height: 0px;" id="l_In">
<td width="40" align="center" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);"></td>
<td width="553" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<p align="left" class="text11B">Interior Color
</td>
<td width="280" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);"></td>
</tr>
<tr style="padding: 0px 2px; width: 976px; height: 0px;" id="l_IFC">
<td width="40" align="center" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);"></td>
<td width="553" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<p align="left" class="text11">Sea Blue Sport Seats
</td>
<td width="280" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<p align="left" class="text11">FC
</td>
<td width="100" align="right" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);" id="price">
<p align="right" class="text11">$0
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="4" style="border-bottom: 1px solid rgb(224, 224, 224);">
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="padding: 0px 2px; width: 976px; height: 0px;" id="l_Ex">
<td width="40" align="center" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);"></td>
<td width="553" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<p align="left" class="text11B">Exterior
</td>
<td width="280" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);"></td>
</tr>
<tr style="padding: 0px 2px; width: 976px; height: 0px;" id="l_M635">
<td width="40" align="center" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);"></td>
<td width="553" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<p align="left" class="text11">Park Assist System
</td>
<td width="280" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<p align="left" class="text11">635
</td>
<td width="100" align="right" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);" id="price">
<p align="right" class="text11">$530
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="padding: 0px 2px; width: 976px; height: 0px;" id="l_PP12">
<td width="40" align="center" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);"></td>
<td width="553" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<p align="left" class="text11">Self-Dimming Mirrors & Rain Sensor
</td>
<td width="280" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<p align="left" class="text11">P12
</td>
<td width="100" align="right" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);" id="price">
<p align="right" class="text11">$690
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="4" style="border-bottom: 1px solid rgb(224, 224, 224);">
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="padding: 0px 2px; width: 976px; height: 0px;" id="l_Pe">
<td width="40" align="center" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);"></td>
<td width="553" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<p align="left" class="text11B">Performance
</td>
<td width="280" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);"></td>
</tr>
<tr style="padding: 0px 2px; width: 976px; height: 0px;" id="l_M475">
<td width="40" align="center" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);"></td>
<td width="553" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<p align="left" class="text11">Porsche Active Suspension Management (PASM)
</td>
<td width="280" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<p align="left" class="text11">475
</td>
<td width="100" align="right" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);" id="price">
<p align="right" class="text11">$1,990
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="padding: 0px 2px; width: 976px; height: 0px;" id="l_M640">
<td width="40" align="center" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);"></td>
<td width="553" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<p align="left" class="text11">Sport Chrono Package Plus
</td>
<td width="280" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<p align="left" class="text11">640
</td>
<td width="100" align="right" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);" id="price">
<p align="right" class="text11">$920
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="4" style="border-bottom: 1px solid rgb(224, 224, 224);">
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="padding: 0px 2px; width: 976px; height: 0px;" id="l_Wh">
<td width="40" align="center" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);"></td>
<td width="553" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<p align="left" class="text11B">Wheels
</td>
<td width="280" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);"></td>
</tr>
<tr style="padding: 0px 2px; width: 976px; height: 0px;" id="l_M407">
<td width="40" align="center" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);"></td>
<td width="553" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<p align="left" class="text11">19' Sport Design Wheel
</td>
<td width="280" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<p align="left" class="text11">407
</td>
<td width="100" align="right" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);" id="price">
<p align="right" class="text11">$1,940
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="4" style="border-bottom: 1px solid rgb(224, 224, 224);">
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="padding: 0px 2px; width: 976px; height: 0px;" id="l_In">
<td width="40" align="center" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);"></td>
<td width="553" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<p align="left" class="text11B">Interior
</td>
<td width="280" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);"></td>
</tr>
<tr style="padding: 0px 2px; width: 976px; height: 0px;" id="l_PP01">
<td width="40" align="center" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);"></td>
<td width="553" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<p align="left" class="text11">Adaptive Sport Seats
</td>
<td width="280" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<p align="left" class="text11">P01
</td>
<td width="100" align="right" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);" id="price">
<p align="right" class="text11">$3,055
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="4" style="border-bottom: 1px solid rgb(224, 224, 224);">
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="padding: 0px 2px; width: 976px; height: 0px;" id="l_Au">
<td width="40" align="center" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);"></td>
<td width="553" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<p align="left" class="text11B">Audio
</td>
<td width="280" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);"></td>
</tr>
<tr style="padding: 0px 2px; width: 976px; height: 0px;" id="l_M680">
<td width="40" align="center" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);"></td>
<td width="553" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<p align="left" class="text11">Bose Surround Sound System
</td>
<td width="280" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<p align="left" class="text11">680
</td>
<td width="100" align="right" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);" id="price">
<p align="right" class="text11">$950
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="padding: 0px 2px; width: 976px; height: 0px;" id="l_PP23">
<td width="40" align="center" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);"></td>
<td width="553" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<p align="left" class="text11">Porsche Communication Management (PCM) including Extended Navigation
</td>
<td width="280" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<p align="left" class="text11">P23
</td>
<td width="100" align="right" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);" id="price">
<p align="right" class="text11">$3,175
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="4" style="border-bottom: 1px solid rgb(224, 224, 224);">
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="padding: 0px 2px; width: 976px; height: 0px;" id="l_Pa">
<td width="40" align="center" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);"></td>
<td width="553" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<p align="left" class="text11B">Packages
</td>
<td width="280" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);"></td>
</tr>
<tr style="padding: 0px 2px; width: 976px; height: 0px;" id="l_MPPB">
<td width="40" align="center" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);"></td>
<td width="553" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<p align="left" class="text11">Preferred Package Plus
</td>
<td width="280" align="left" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<p align="left" class="text11">PPB
</td>
<td width="100" align="right" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(255, 255, 255);" id="price">
<p align="right" class="text11">$4,990
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
As I said a pretty loaded up Cayman S to get into that price range! That is one of the most loaded Cayman S configurations I've seen yet! /fckeditor/editor/images/smiley/MWPX/thumbsup.gif
You need to recalculate the Cayman. A number of your options are duplicated in the 'preferred plus' option. There is at minimum a $4900 savings. There are also a few question options that could be deleted if one wants to reduce the cost.
The invoice on a 997 Carrera S is $69, 077 so there is $10K in profit in the car right there not to mention any other incentives the dealer may have. From what I have heard though they can't build the damn things fast enough so what price were they selling it for? If I could get a Carrera S at invoice I would buy it in a heartbeat!!
I'm trading in a 2003 Carerra to get the Cayman because I like the looks and prefer a mid-engine car. The 911 is a grand touring car more than a sports car. If you're going to own a GT car, then you should load it with every creature comfort and bling-blingyou can afford.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr id="quote" noshade="noshade" height="1" /> What would you do? <hr id="quote" noshade="noshade" height="1" /></blockquote>
This is a great question and got me rethinking my decision to buy a Cayman. [/quote]Part of the Cayman’s allure is it will deliver better handling than a Carrera and save between $10,000 and $20,000. [/quote]A Carrera S for the price of a Cayman is a different story.
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">While my initial reaction would be to buy the Carrera S, on further reflection I would still rather give up the added power of the Carrera for the more stable and confidence inspiring handling of the Cayman. [/quote]I don’t need small back seats and would rather have larger and more useable cargo space. [/quote]I have owned a car that does 0-60 in the low 4’s and don’t need to experience that again. [/quote]If you prefer the speed or could use the little back seats, get the Carrera S. [/quote]It will certainly hold its value more than a fully loaded Cayman you buy at MSRP.
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">No matter how much more I like the Cayman, there is still a certain allure the Carrera holds and the thought of getting one at a deep discount is almost too hard to pass up.
Edited by - BiggerTwin on 09/27/2005 09:21:42 AM
I let my 986 go in 03 because I didn't see the point in doing the same thing twice and Porsche wouldn't negotiate the lease. Since then I've passed on two 911s, firstthe 996C4S and now the 997S.Money was not the issue. If you really want a 911 you better get it because the Cayman is not a substitute (or wannabe) 911. I really like, and will buy,the CaymanS for what it is, not what it
could
be,
should
be, or
will
be. If I didn't I'deither buy something else or save my money.Money is expensive, choose wisely.
Thanks for everyone's insightful comments.
I just passed on the 911.
I'm buying what I want -- not what's available.
Edited by - ipse dixit on 09/27/2005 3:15:49 PM
Ok since you are passing on this one ........ where is it and how much.Go aheadand PM me with the info!I would like to buy both this one and the cayman S I have on order /fckeditor/editor/images/smiley/MWPX/thanks.gif
A 997 Carrera S at that price is a fabulous bargain! Just make sure it's exactly what it appears to be, you don't want to buy something with a less-than-perfect past, despite the price.
For the same money I'd probably take the 997S. However, the car I want, and the car I've ordered, is the Cayman S. And I certainly won't feel disappointed or even-short changed, the Cayman S will be the more usable driver's car. But I couldn't get a 997S for the same price/fckeditor/editor/images/smiley/MWPX/sad_smile.gif
997S, no doubt. I love driving my 987, but seriously wonder if the Cayman would be enough power to keep me happy. If I could get a 997S for invoice, I would buy it yesterday.
