Oil Change every 2 years?

Just noticing at www.porscheusa.com that it says the first recommended oil change is 32,000km or every two years. Then I look on a dealer's website and it says I should change the oil every 24,000km Plus..... Diagnosis system: Read out fault memory Underside of vehicle and engine compartment: Visual inspection for leaks (oils and fluids) and chafine (wires, lines and hoses) Underbody paneling: Check that the underbody paneling is securely fastened - replace any damaged and/or missing panels. Power-assisted steering: Check fluid level Coolant hoses: Check condition. Radiators and air inlets: Visual inspection for external debris and blockage Coolant: check level and anitfreeze Particle filter: Replace filter element Brake hoses and lines: Visual inspection for signs of damage, correct routing and corrosion Brake fluid: Check level Drive shaft: Visual inspection of the boots for leaks and signs of damage Tires and spare wheel: Check condition and tire pressure Door locks, lid locks and safety hook of the front lid, Check to ensure that they are adjusted correctly and function properly Vehicle lights: Check operation All headlights: Check setting Horn: Check operation Windshield washer, headlight washer: Check fluid level and nozzle settings, make sure to check the antifreeze during winter months All other electrical equipment as well as indicator and warning lights: Check operation During road or dynamometer test: Brake pedal and parking brake (also operating travel), engine, clutch, transmission, automatic speed control, steering system, heating, air-conditioning system and instruments: Operation-test Oils, fluids: Visual inspection for leaks What's the deal? Most of those things seem to be visual checks rather than preventive maintance. I don't want to cheap out on service, but surely the dealer wants to do more than is necessary. So what is bare necessity? They already seem to be moving the oil change up 8,000km more than what Porsche USA says. I know some people like to go nuts with service and oil change, but... what would my minmum responsible maintainence be in the first 3 years of owernship?

I believe that all of those inspections are covered within the documentation that came with your car. It isn't just an oil change that is every 20,000 miles.

You're right. And I should check my manual but I'm still willing to bet the dealership will recommend even more. I never understood that. Like when they tell you to replace your pads and rotors because you only have 20% left. I always, feel like saying, well great I'll come by when there's 2% left. Why throw the rotors and pads out early? But I'm probably paranoid about that stuff. I took my $6,000 racing bicycle in to have something looked at and was told I probably needed a new chain and rear hub soon and I was like, "The bike is 2 months old with 500km on it." He went, "Oh, okay, well... maybe you're okay then..." I hate that kind of crap. Sorry.

The recommended service intervals for the Cayman is 20k miles (32k km and change). that's if you drive the car in normal street driving in the usual urban/suburban setting. If you stress the car in extra dusty/dirty environments, there is an accelerated schedule in your maintenance manual. For most who use their cars in speed events (autocross and DE) they would be well advised in my mind to change the oil more often than 20k miles/2 years, but that's a decision for the individual owner to make. Personally, why skimp on the lifeblood of a $60k-$70k automobile to save a couple of hundred bucks? If you like the precision engineering of the car and all the things that affords it to do that brings that big smile to your face when you drive it, then you need to understand that it might take more time and expense to maintain that automobile than to maintain a Chevy Malibu. Just like your question about whether or not to repair or replace a tire, this is part of the cost-of-entry for a car of this type and engineering. Yes, most of those things are visual inspections, but would you rather they just change the oil and filter and not look at anything else? Visual inspections are a vital part of preventive maintenance for anything mechanical. Most maintenance schedules for any new car includes all this stuff, and I think it's good they do it. If you decide to change your own oil, will you also check all the belts, fluid levels, under-body panels etc.? Well, some people feel that the price of an oil change once a year might better protect their investment. Nothing wrong with that... Most dealers recommend an oil change more often than the 2 year factory recommendation - are they trolling for extra income? Sure they are... it that necessary? depends on how you drive the car, imo. In one year and 20k miles, I've had 4 oil changes, (one was included in the 20k mile service) had the brakes flushed and bled three times, and gone through several sets of tires - although none have been because of flats. I do that because I autocross and track the car. At a minimum, in three years, you'll need to have the 2-year/32k km service done. Also, at the two year interval you need to replace and flush/bleed the brakes. You'll need to do that as a minimum to keep your warranty in force. brad

Yeah, it's kind of insulting to include this stuff. Like the longer they make the list the more they can justify the cost. They'll see me at 20K for the minimum service. Otherwise, I do my own oil and brakes. I can also check my own washer fluid and horn, thank you very much. For some who can stomach it though, it's just easier to drop off the car and pay the bill.

I agree. So back to my original question what is the minimum that needs to be done at the 20K service? I would assume it's probably not much more than just change the oil and check the brakes. What else would benefit from preventative maintence? Because to me this is what preventative maintanence is: Catching something early and fixing it cheaply before it gets worse and is more expensive to fix. Charging me to inspect something that is supposed to wear out and get thrown out eventually (like brake pads) and telling me they're not worn out yet isn't that useful to me. Besides, won't a light light up on my dashboard when my brakes pads are low? Then I'll replace them. Won't a light tell me if my airbag isn't working? Won't a light tell me if I'm out of windshielf wiper fluid? Do I really need to pay someone hundreds of dollars to tell me none of those lights have lit up yet? In other words I don't need to pay someone to 'inspect' my tires and tell me they aren't worn out yet. I have the wear strips built right in to them. I can see that for myself. This is why I have so much of an issue with paying money for all this "visual inspection" stuff. Do you know what I mean? I'm not trying to be obnoxious. Am I wrong to think this? I live right downtown, so it's not like I'll be miles from a service center when any of this needs fixing.

Read here 20 ways you waste money on your car Two items I quote: Using the dealer’s maintenance schedule instead of the factory’s. Of course he thinks you should have a major tune-up every 30,000 miles. Most of the tasks that we generally think of under the heading of “tune-up” are now handled electronically. Stick to the manufacturer’s schedule unless your car is not running well. If your engine doesn't "miss" -- skip a beat or make other odd noises -- don’t change the spark plugs or wires until the manufacturer says so. Taking false economies. Better to replace a timing belt on the manufacturer’s schedule than to have it break somewhere in western Nebraska. Better to pop for snow tires than to ride that low-profile rubber right into a tree. Under warranty, I would follow what Porsce recommends. Its all in the maintenance manual. 20K Service is a "minor" service.

Good article. I find this interesting too. I've heard a lot of dealers say this. So what do you say to them if they say this to you?

At the very least, to protect your warranty, you must perform the minimum maintenance specified by the factory. If you have it done by a dealer, you will not have to keep receipts to prove it has been done. Also, if something is done incorrectly, Porsche has no wiggle room if dealers are the only ones who have worked on the car. According to the independent shop I have been patronizing for 30 years, the extended oil change intervals specified by many manufacturers are too long. On cars that have received only the minimum required oil changes, there are clear signs of damage by 100k miles due to oil deterioration. Synthetic oil and modern engines are good enough that 3k mile oil changes are no longer necessary. But, 20k miles or 2 years is not often enough. If you are leasing your car and don't care about the next owner, you can get by without extra "in between" oil changes. If you are a long term owner, I think it is worth the investment. The major service interval for our two daily drivers is 15k miles. Because they are open Saturdays and are a little cheaper, I have a tire store do "in between" oil changes every 3,750 miles. The 15k oil changes are done by the independent shop during the major service. As a result, the independent shop sees each car less than once a year. The guys at the tire store are honest and competetent within their sphere of expertise. However, they just don't know as much as the guys at the independent shop. On occasion, they have failed to notice or have incorrectly diagnosed problems that the independent shop later found and diagnosed correctly. Therefore, an argument in favor of the dealer's expensive oil change / inspection package is that it gets someone qualified to look over the car fairly often.

Brad - I see you're a DE instructor. I've done one DE at MotorSport Ranch in Cresson, TX. That's the MOST fun I've had driving the car! I'm just getting into this. My previous car was a BMW 325i. I took that to my first AX school in February of this year and was instantly hooked. The BMW was up for sell that evening and I immediately started my search for fast, great handling car. I bought my Cayman S mid-March and have pretty much been at an AX or time trial every weekend since then. The DE spoiled me though and now AX events leave me wanting. Anyway, I'm trying to get a handle on the right maintentance for the amount and type of driving I'm doing. The Cayman is not my daily driver but sometimes it's hard to leave at home. Most of the time she'll be in the garage during the week and at an event on weekends. I do drive her to events and most of the time that's a 3 hr + drive. On average, I'll probably do 6-8 DEs and 24-30 AX & time trails (combined) a year. I will definitely change the oil and flush the brake fluid at least once a year. How often should I bleed the brakes? Every other month? I'm keeping an eye on my brake pads. The fronts will have to be changed pretty soon. Any other advice would be appreciated! Thanks! If you're wondering about my driving style.... I'm very aggressive. Probably too much but past instructors have said that it's good. My first DE, I only had to give one point by all weekend. That about killed me. I have a LOT to learn though. I don't have heel/toe down yet and no left foot braking yet. I'm sure there's a bunch of other things that I don't even know about!

Here's my $.02 From an aircraft maintenance perspective, I don't think that anyone here would like flying on an aircraft knowing that the only scheduled maintenance was gas, oil level, tire wear inspection and a simple pilot walk around. Aircraft have indicator lights also. But as the planes get larger and carry more passengers, travel faster, incur more risks, then the inspections become much more thorough. A licensed mechanic does full inspections, which periodically require the removal of panels and inspection of lines for leaks, chafing, etc. Flight controls are checked for rigging, proper lubrication and operation. And a mechanic knows how the object works and not just how to operate it. And that makes a difference when doing an inspection. We are talkin' high performance sports cars here. And those of us on this site are well aware of that. But we don't make up the entire customer base of Porsche . Those full inspections are for the care and well being of the car, the safety of the folks on the road, and the profit of the dealership. Brakes are a good place to start. I can replace pads and "inspect" the rotor. But a proper brake job would include measuring the rotor for thickness, runout (for distortion) and even to look for hotspots. And it may be "safer" to just replace them, rather than put something less worthy back on the road. Most of us can perform our own maintenance, but that doesn't mean that we are performing it correctly. When I see someone coming up behind me at a stoplight, I always hope that they had a reputable individual service their brake system properly at a scheduled interval.

I'm still a bit confused. As I said before I'm all for preventative maintenence - fixing something cheaply before it becomes more expensive to fix later. But I feel like a lot of the other 'checks' and 'visual inspections' are just that. Nothing is really getting done other than you being charged for someone to look at something. If it doesn't need preventative maintenence why not wait until it's completley worn out before replacing it. At which point it's just a quick drive over to the dealer to have it replaced. I think your airplane example is a bit misleading since a car isn't going to fall out of the sky. Again, I'm not suggesting not chaning your oil or brakes as needed. What I'm questioning are all the 'checks' at 32,000km that turn a basic oil and filter job into an $800CDN 'minor' service.

Caygirl It may be obvious, but check tire condition before & during every speed event. Brake pads should be replaced if they have less than 50% left before a DE. You can swap back & use them up on the street. I suggest you flush brakes at least every 6 months using ATE 200/Super Blue (same stuff just different colors) or better. Bleeding depends on many variables, e.g., heat, how hard the track is on brakes, etc. Keep an eye on rotor cracks. OK unless they connect drilled holes or extend to the edge. Try a search in the Competition forum for much more re: DE car prep & maintenance.

An important point for those without prior Porsche experience is that resale values for private buyers (i.e., not dealer trades) are generally higher, in some cases much higher, for cars that have a well documented history of being well maintained and cared for. It can be DIY if there are receipts and records and the seller is credible. Used Porsches sell differently than Buicks. Most buyers care about the car's history & they're not attracted by minimal maintenance. Simply, hawc, if you minimally maintain your Porsche , even by the book, you'll diminish its resale value. At least, I wouldn't buy it when I can buy many others that had better care. Just my $.02.

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I guess I'm confused why you're still a bit confused... visual checks for preventive maintenance are necessary... An example from your list: Underside of vehicle and engine compartment: Visual inspection for leaks (oils and fluids) and chafing (wires, lines and hoses) I took my car in for its 20k mile service a few weeks ago. they did all the stuff - changed the oil and filter, changed the air filter, I asked them to flush/bleed the brakes in addition. While doing the visual inspection mentioned above, they found my motor had an oil leak on the passenger side cam cover... it was dripping ever so slightly down onto the cat on that side... found and fixed under warranty. No visual inspection, no find oil leak. So, under your scenario - wait til it breaks - you don't find it necessary over the course of three years to: Underside of vehicle and engine compartment: Visual inspection for leaks (oils and fluids) and chafine (wires, lines and hoses) Underbody paneling: Check that the underbody paneling is securely fastened - replace any damaged and/or missing panels. Power-assisted steering: Check fluid level Coolant hoses: Check condition. Radiators and air inlets: Visual inspection for external debris and blockage Coolant: check level and anitfreeze Brake hoses and lines: Visual inspection for signs of damage, correct routing and corrosion Brake fluid: Check level Drive shaft: Visual inspection of the boots for leaks and signs of damage Door locks, lid locks and safety hook of the front lid, Check to ensure that they are adjusted correctly and function properly Vehicle lights: Check operation All headlights: Check setting Horn: Check operation Windshield washer, headlight washer: Check fluid level and nozzle settings, make sure to check the antifreeze during winter months All other electrical equipment as well as indicator and warning lights: Check operation During road or dynamometer test: Brake pedal and parking brake (also operating travel), engine, clutch, transmission, automatic speed control, steering system, heating, air-conditioning system and instruments: Operation-test Oils, fluids: Visual inspection for leaks Good luck. brad

For those that would like to refer to Porsche 's recommended maintenance schedule, I have added it to the files section in PDF format. http://www.planet-9.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=112

Question - I just purchased a 06 CS I'm sure it's been on the lot for 18+ months it has 90 miles on it, should I insist that they do an oil change?

New oil service schedule for 2008 Cayman I am working with my dealer in ordering my 2008 Cayman. He just got some new information today (no prices yet), but he was pleased to note the new recommended oil change interval is 1 year or 12,000 miles on the 2008 models. Now we can all argue about whether that is too long! --doubleclutch

Have any of you looked at the PDI checklists or 100 point inspection sheets some of these guys do? Clean card, same style of check marking appearing to have been checked all in one go, etc. A friend of mine once said that adding a break in inspection offer on the sale of snowmobiles was an inside joke in the industry - 'is it broke in? yep. Good - roll it out of the garage!' Not saying everyone is crooked but I am always somewhat leery.....