993 top end rebuild - Page 2 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

So let's imagine that I am looking at a very nice 993 varioram which now needs a top end rebuild at about 50k miles. The price could be right if the rebuild wasn't too expensive so give me a clue please. Let's assume that it has done loads of slow running and town work and not been used much either. What is the worst case scenario and the price to fix it. Decisions decisions Thanks

£3000 if it's just a standard top end, £7000 if it needs new barrels & pistons, more if it needs other bits (tinware etc) - may well need new HT leads if they've not been done before (much easier with engine out) £250 and maybe a distributor if you don't know when the belt and caps & rotor arms were last done (cheaper to change the whole thing with a new guaranteed unit) - another £250. Call Unit 11 to go through the options - one of the most experienced places for rebuilding these and also one of the lowest cost. 01925 852000 www.unit11.co.uk

Oh the joys of maintaining a Porsche. Just had the CLK serviced and got change from £300...............£120 of it was oil as well so as cheap as the proverbials.

thegoose said: £3000 if it's just a standard top end, £7000 if it needs new barrels & pistons, more if it needs other bits (tinware etc) - may well need new HT leads if they've not been done before (much easier with engine out) £250 and maybe a distributor if you don't know when the belt and caps & rotor arms were last done (cheaper to change the whole thing with a new guaranteed unit) - another £250. Call Unit 11 to go through the options - one of the most experienced places for rebuilding these and also one of the lowest cost. 01925 852000 www.unit11.co.uk You're out of date on the distributor Marcus, exchange units from Bosch are now approx £700! Mine needed doing (Hall probe had failed) so Jonny rebuilt it for me (including new belt and hall sensor) for considerably less than the exchange unit price.

rlw said: So let's imagine that I am looking at a very nice 993 varioram which now needs a top end rebuild at about 50k miles. How do you know this?

Just out of curiosity (something I thought about when I had my 968), is anyone junking the dizzy and fitting 3D mapped ignition? At £750 for a replacement sounds like an even more appealing alternative...

rlw said: Oh the joys of maintaining a Porsche. Just had the CLK serviced and got change from £300...............£120 of it was oil as well so as cheap as the proverbials. Eh? A 993 would be about the same for an oil change (12k) service?

Orangecurry said: How do you know this? Cos the owner was told so and he told me and I have heard and seen it smoking rather a lot.

Happened to my 993 at 70k - and was £6500 by the time we did all the "while you are in there" stuff. Not common but happens. Mine was was properly maintained but I bought used so not sure how it was driven before me.

If it's a bargaining tool to get the price down then ok, but I'd get a second opinion before tearing it apart. Symptoms could just as easily be due to the engine being overfilled with oil..... or the wrong oil, or dizzy/belt or 1000 others.

Orangecurry said: If it's a bargaining tool to get the price down then ok, but I'd get a second opinion before tearing it apart. Symptoms could just as easily be due to the engine being overfilled with oil..... or the wrong oil, or dizzy/belt or 1000 others. Thats just what I was thinking. Top end rebuilds on these engines are rare. And 50k? It must have been seriously abused.

mollytherocker said: Thats just what I was thinking. Top end rebuilds on these engines are rare. And 50k? It must have been seriously abused. or clocked??

Years ago we stripped a pre varioram engine down at 28K miles and that had badly worn valve guides. My own 3.2 at 68K was the same and piston rings were worn as well. Until you strip them down you never can tell what you will find inside

rlw said: So let's imagine that I am looking at a very nice 993 varioram which now needs a top end rebuild at about 50k miles. The price could be right if the rebuild wasn't too expensive so give me a clue please. Let's assume that it has done loads of slow running and town work and not been used much either. What is the worst case scenario and the price to fix it. Decisions decisions Thanks Once you get 'in there' you'll do £10k easy.

roygarth said: Once you get 'in there' you'll do £10k easy. That's pessimistic and highly unlikely, unless you pay very high labour rates or are looking to modify it at the same time.

rlw said: Cos the owner was told so and he told me and I have heard and seen it smoking rather a lot. My curiosity is just too much to bear...... may I come and look at it with you if it is in the south-east? Awwww go-on. I promise I won't nab it.

mollytherocker said: Thats just what I was thinking. Top end rebuilds on these engines are rare. And 50k? It must have been seriously abused. Only if you count 30000 miles of pootling around gently over the last ten years. I know the owner and his style very well and he is OCD about is cars and maintains them to a very high standard and is a sympathetice, but slow, driver. When I mention that all of my 911s regularly saw the redline in at least the first four gears, the look of pain on his face is a picture.

jimmy p said: or clocked?? Not this one, as genuine as they come.

rlw said: mollytherocker said: Thats just what I was thinking. Top end rebuilds on these engines are rare. And 50k? It must have been seriously abused. Only if you count 30000 miles of pootling around gently over the last ten years. I know the owner and his style very well and he is OCD about is cars and maintains them to a very high standard and is a sympathetice, but slow, driver. When I mention that all of my 911s regularly saw the redline in at least the first four gears, the look of pain on his face is a picture. That could well be the issue, these engines need a right good spanking regularly!

thegoose said: Eh? A 993 would be about the same for an oil change (12k) service? Agreed but my point was that my CLK ONLY needed an oil change and didn't require another half dozen silly little jobs doing that eventually add up to the £2K bill I saw every year on my 3.2/964/993 and GT3. Hell, even my 944T was the same........... Running a Mercedes similar in age and mileage to all the Porsches I have owned has, in financial terms, been a revelation. After the inital putting it back into good order, it has cost peanuts to run and maintain and I really do not miss the regular little shocks that come with running a 911. But I still fancy another one.

rlw said: Only if you count 30000 miles of pootling around gently over the last ten years. I know the owner and his style very well and he is OCD about is cars and maintains them to a very high standard and is a sympathetice, but slow, driver. When I mention that all of my 911s regularly saw the redline in at least the first four gears, the look of pain on his face is a picture. Gentle pootling will not destroy an engine as strong as the 993s. Sitting in traffic jams for 30k, maybe. Ragging it from cold, maybe. Not pootling. Are you/he sure that both dizzys are working?

[quote=Orangecurry] Gentle pootling will not destroy an engine as strong as the 993s. Sitting in traffic jams for 30k, maybe. Ragging it from cold, maybe. Not pootling. Are you/he sure that both dizzys are working? [/quote ] Now there's a thing - I always imagined that was unique to the 964 engine so will have to make further enquiries.

Orangecurry said: My curiosity is just too much to bear...... may I come and look at it with you if it is in the south-east? Awwww go-on. I promise I won't nab it. Have to speak to the owner rather than me.........

rlw said: Have to speak to the owner rather than me......... Contact details?

Hi I agree that at 50k you are not looking at a rebuild whatever the owner says. Unless he has run it out of oil. But if he is careful that is unlikely. On a car that is rarely used I would put the smoke down to an oil leak (probably cam cover) and any tapping to the lifters. Best of luck Berni

My 964 is having a rebuild at the moment. On strip down it transpired it had done a big end bearing. The (fully evidenced) mileage is 47k. SS7

graemel said: Years ago we stripped a pre varioram engine down at 28K miles and that had badly worn valve guides. My own 3.2 at 68K was the same and piston rings were worn as well. Until you strip them down you never can tell what you will find inside Indeed, those saying "this can't be true with only that number on the clock" (or words to that effect) are naive - we're discussing a circa 20 year old car here, a lot can have happened over that time, the evidence is in the condition of the engine now. I'd agree with making certain it does need doing before ripping it apart, such as cylinder leakage test - BDC as well as TDC might be useful for comparison too - had this done on my 964 only circa 2,000 miles after a rebuild (albeit on track testing and racing - but goes to show how early things can wear, doesn't it?), it showed that despite the high leakage percentage at TDC it actually had cylinders that had gone oval towards the top (hence v low leakage at BDC), showing that new barrels and pistons were required without the need to strip and measure them.