Gen 2 S engine in to Gen1 S

Hi, I have now managed to totally fry 2 engines within 1 year using the car for trackdays. 1st one was on 70K miles with deep sump + 4 pint accusump, failure happened at Zandvoort just after a long fast right-hander 2nd one was on 28k miles with deep sump + 4 pint accusump ( 10 litre of oil total) failure happened at Goodwood just after a long 120miles/h right hander. Everything point toward oil starvation when doing long fast right handers, oil trown away from the pickup and the accusump running out of oil????? Both engines have identical damage, spun a big end, snapped rod, smashed cylinder wall / block and ruined crank. For obvious reasons I have no confidence that the same won't happen again with a 3rd engine, so considering fitting the later gen 2 engine with a stand-alone management if it's a straight forward install. Have anybody done this? Does the gen 1 gearbox fit on the gen 2 engine? Does the engine mounts from gen 2 engine fit the gen car. Any help would be great Bo

Yes it's been done. Do a search of the site for more info. Another way to go is to use a properly built gen 1 engine with good rods & proper bearing clearances. A well set up gen 1 will hold up under racing conditions with slicks & aero. Talk to Vision Motorsports, they have off the shelf engines ready to ship world wide.

I have no confidence that any gen 1 engine will last in my car with my setup and the tracks I go to, and I'm not going to waste another £10k+ on hopefully it will last.

There's no doubt that stock gen 2 engine is more track worthy than a stock gen 1. In fact I advise not tracking a stock Gen 1. I blew two Gen one engines that had deep sump extra oil pumps etc when I was time trialing my 07 CS. The gen one engines we run that are built for the track are very reliable, lasting years racing on tracks with turns as you describe. My home track Willow Springs has two long very high speed rights. We are entering T 2 at 105 mph and T 8 at 145 mph pulling as much as 1.7G. Data shows OP is good and the engines are happy campers. PS no accusumps are used

Porsche says M97 is wet sump, but they're wrong, it's clearly a dry sump: it stores all the oil in the left cylinder head! If you're looking for an engine upgrade, are you considering more significant upgrades, like with a Metzger GT3 engine, or a V8?

I'm more than happy with the 320hp I had from the stock engine, so just need a reliable replacement with similar power. Pretty sure you are right about storing all the oil in the left cylinder head, both engines have blown on tracks with long right handers, but had no problems doing Spa for 1.5 days with all the long fast left handers.

Long time lurker, but first time poster... I had the same dilemma last year. I bought a 2007 CS and threw a rod through the top of the block on the second track day. Given the numerous oiling issues and some discussion of smallish rod bolts I didn't want to throw a bunch of money at an M97 hoping to never have another issue. So I decided to swap to a DFI motor. Of course while I was at it may as well upgrade to a 3.8L motor ;-) I just go it running and driving this week! There are still some chassis issues to sort out (e.g. PSM errors and oil level checking through the cluster). I've got a spreadsheet with all of the part numbers and costs I paid which I can share. I also documented the pinouts to create a jumper harness from the 987.2 engine harness to the 987.1 chassis harness. I did all of the mechanical and electrical work myself, but owe a big thanks to Scott at Softronics for supplying the tune and spending a lot of time talking through potential issues. To the OP's specific questions: 1) The Gen 2 bellhouisng bolt pattern is different. You could drill a few holes in the bellhousing out to make most of the holes line up, but it also interferes with the coolant tubes on the back passenger side of the engine. I bought a 987.2 non-S trans (cheaper and some of the gear ratios are supposedly better for the track). They are dimensionally the same except it had smaller drive flanges. The larger drive flanges from my old S trans popped right in place. 2) The Gen 2 engine mounts do fit the Gen 1 chassis. On the trans mounts I had to mix the Gen 1 mounts with the Gen 2 brackets that mount to the trans. 3) You can use the Gen 2 DME with a Gen 2 engine harness. So I don't know that you NEED to go standalone. I'm still sorting out some of the chassis interface issues, but in a track car you may not care as much. For whatever reason Porsche engines are much cheaper in the UK right now (I source mine there as well). So you're located in the right place. Shea

Yup. Deep sumps, accusumps, etc. are just bandaids to the bigger problem. Vision addresses it with their off the shelf motors. Where was this six months ago before I bought a vision motor? I looked into doing this swap, but decided against it as I couldn't justify the labor / IP costs to pay a shop to do it, and don't have the time to do the engineering myself. I'd be very interested in seeing your spreadsheet if you wouldn't mind sharing? Pleeeease.

I've put the parts list spreadsheet on my Google drive. So see if this link works. https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzULg_UFNXXWeTZic09jdi1DQnc I've categorized the parts based on what is required to swap from PFI to DFI, and then the extra parts required to go convert a 997.2 motor to 987.2 (you avoid this if you use a 987.2 3.4L). The costs don't included selling off any of the old parts since I haven't started that yet. Also note that I indicated whether the parts were new or used. YOUR COSTS MAY VARY!

A quick update: I took my car to the first public track day of the year at M1 Concourse. It ran flawlessly all day! I did OK ;-) So I'd call the swap a success. That said I still have 3 things that aren't completely resolved. I haven't charged up the A/C circuit yet so I can't confirm that works yet. Heat works fine. PSM throws errors because it can't communicate with the newer DME . The 987.2 uses a different PSM/ABS unit and a different yaw sensor. The wiring to both is a bit different as well. The ABS still works and I'm fine without the PSM. So rather than try swapping the PSM/ABS unit, yaws sensor and wiring I used my Durametric Pro to deactivate the error message in cluster. Lastly, I can't measure my oil level yet. The newer engines use a different oil level sensor and the pinouts to the cluster are different. I moved the pinouts and sourced a newer used cluster. Once the car is warmed up and idling the cluster will go through the measurement routine but then says "oil level indicator failure". I've double checked the wiring and changed out the sensor, but no luck. Any ideas would be welcomed.

I ran into an issue on 997 M97 engine into the 987.1 chassis. The ECU was expecting the full pressure sensor while the 987 is just an "idiot light" so perhaps you can get that also disabled via the ECU programming.

I want/need to measure the oil level. So just turning off the message does not help in this case.

After looking at the build list, you sure do save a lot by using a 3.4 DFI, plus many performance bolt on like coilovers, numeric shift cables, lightweight flywheel, performance plenum etc. It actually looks like it could be done for 15k no? I also don't understand the need for the 2.9 manual transmission, you can't re-use the 3.4 or was that for different gearing?

The bellhousing bolt pattern is different enough that the 987.1 trans won't fit the 9A1 engine.

Hi Guys, ive blown my gen 1 3.8 S so bought a gen 2 3.8 S engine, gearbox, exhaust system, ecu and wiring loom, mechanical bits all done but im struggling with the wiring with the harnesses and the pinouts, would anybody have any information on it or possibly any drawings Thanks Ross

How did it fail? Softronic can flash your ECU to work with the Gen2

I've uploaded a spreadsheet that has the info you'll need. The first tab is a list of parts you'll need, but sounds line you have most of the them. The second tab has the info on the gen 1 wiring and the 3rd tab has the gen 2 wiring. This 3rd tab also has the pinout for the jumper harness that I made to interface the gen 2 engine harness to the gen 1 chassis harness. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gCHhnYcTQjvEXzNWY-JZO9oyqWZlI7rPnqcVYOoPsLE/edit?usp=sharing The gen1 chassis harness interfaces with the engine harness via white and black connectors as well as directly to the ECU. The gen 2 harness only interfaces with the directly through the engine harness. So I cut off the interface from the gen1 engine harness to plug into the white and black chassis connectors. Then added connectors on the other end to plug into the engine harness. The part numbers for the connectors are in the parts list. I would highly recommend buying the wiring diagrams for each car as well so you'll understand everything.

you spent over 26k putting a .2 3.8!

Note the categories as not everything was engine swap mandatory, but yes it ain’t cheap even doing the work yourself. As stated above you save a lot on misc parts if you go with a 3.4 dfi from a 987.2 . You can also filter out the pfi to dfi parts to see what it would cost to go 3.8 on 987.2 car. Of course you’re already paying more for the car as well.

Hello ssburns, I'm about to do a 3.4 DFI swap to my 06 Cayman S and I've been going over your spreadsheet and I have a few questions. First of all, I bought a 2009 Cayman S wrecked to grab the parts I need from. It only has light damage to the right front corner, so everything I need should be there and in good shape with fewer miles than my 06 has. I've been reading both wiring diagrams between both models quite a bit and it looks pretty close to your spreadsheet, but I have a question about the fuel pump control unit wiring and also if you ever got the oil level sensing working on your car. My thought is that we don't need the fuel pump control unit and can just trigger the fuel pump relay using the yellow/white wire that used to connect to the DME and connect it to a Terminal R (hot when in run position) wire. What did you do here? Did you ever get the oil level sensor to work and did you need the 987.1 or .2 instrument cluster? Is it possible to install the old oil level sensor from the .1 to the 9A1 engine and keep the .1 instrument cluster? Also, how did you go about getting the DME immobilizer synced? I realize this is an old thread, but really hoping you see this and can shed some light.