Winter Tyres 996C4S

Has anyone tried winter tyres on their car and does it make much difference? I am sure a lot of people will be thinking this today!

I've for the first year put winter tyres on the driving wheels(FWD) of my daily car, which is not a performance car and been very impressed with the increased levels of grip in the snow and ice up here in Central Scotland. Would be interested to hear other views on winter tyres for performance vehicles.

Put them on my BMW 530D Touring. Excellent grip and supreme ability to brake in a straight line. The ABS and traction control kick-in earlier. I had to provoke the car to get the back end out but hey that's what I do for fun! [ ]

Don't put them on the turbo but have them on the daily. A great improvement in the wet and cold. However, thinking about it at the end of January is too late....by about 3 months![ ]

I use Vredestein Wintrac Xtremes on my turbo and have done for 4 winters. Although not N-rated, they are recommended by Porsche USA for the Boxster. They are fantastic in the wet and cold. During the extreme winter of 2010 with 6 inches of snow and -17 degrees in Belfast, I used the car daily for 5 weeks of the snow. Have a look at this link http://www.porsche.com/usa/accessoriesandservices/porscheservice/documentsanddownloads/

I use winter tyres on my daily from November through to end of March. Car is a Jaguar XF and wouldn't consider half the journeys I do during the winter months without them. I was one of the last cars through Drumochter pass on the A9 on Saturday night. I would have been spending a cold night in the snow without my winter tyres..

I've got them on my BMW 530D Touring but only since mid January with the weather being so mild around here-actually using 225 x17's in place of the usual 235 x17's but only because I was given them by my son-in-law when he changed his Volvo S60 for a BMW X3. He used them in all weathers up north of Newcastle & claims the Volvo went anywhere & very necessary for him as he runs the A&E at the RVI. Generally I drive in snow/ice with DSC disengaged otherwise you can't get enough traction to get going unless you can spin the rear wheels.

Likewise - but on my 993C4 - and similarly they are on the Porsche (Germany) recommended list for 993s - and it specifically notes that they are not N rated but are recommended. I'm really impressed by them. This is my second winter on them. Drove up to Fort William and back from Glasgow on Tuesday. I'm not saying you can throw caution to the wind but they really to transform the drive from "scary" to "fun".

My 993 was lethal in snow on summer tyres, so I know what you mean by scary! Another vote for the Vredestein Wintrac Xtremes. I have them on my Cayman, and they were really confidence inspiring in the couple of cm snow we had here earlier in the week.

I also use winter tyres they should be mandatory as a safety option for all cars in winter

Drmeng I completely disagree with you. They should be banned and drivers should be taught how to drive according to the prevailing conditions. If you put these so called winter tyres on and lose it then the kinetic energy will be higher and thus require more dissipation or in other words the impact speed will be higher because inevitably "winter tyres" will instil a false sense of security amongst the irresponsible. I appreciate that they might seem like a boon to motoring safety in the winter but every safety measure introduced inevitably erodes the skill of the driver. I know I sound controversial, but I am grumpy, my new implant treatment has set my teeth off as they do so I need a good grumble, but seriously I see winter tyres as a con; I don't see them as being black ice proof, are they? As the tread would fill up in snow surely they would be no better and is it really prudent to be taking advantage of the extra grip on a wet surface? I am not closed minded about this but I need some proper convincing

With the greatest of respect to Richard, " confidence inspiring"? confidence to do what, exactly? Drive faster? See this is what I am getting at. Why do we need a tyre that inspires confidence? It's winter it's icy; be gentle on the g forces and don't make any sudden manoeuvers, anticipate and slow down to give yourself time to react. Still grumpy

Crikey, so all those countries that have mandatory use of winter tyres have clearly got it very wrong[8|][ ]

So will you remove your airbags and ban seat belts . All legislation work to the lowet common denominator whihc in this case is poor drivers

Are you replying to me or John?[ ]

Replying to john. It goes without saying that driving skills need to be better than a one off test. Driving a ton of steel which can kill and does more often than a gun should not be seen as a right ( viz america tolerance of the regular multiple shootings in america amd the apparent right to bear arms ) As all skills they require at leats a 6 monthly refreher due to skill fade. Perhaps thne correct argument to john' s comment is enhanced safety measures such as winter tyres and higher training annually to keep your licence I still rather drive carefully with winter tyres than summmer ones .....

Confidence that you can negotiate the snow with a great deal more control and safety. It isn't all about going faster - winter tyres help you slow down and steer more safely than with summer tyres. So when some idiot (and there are plenty of them who have little conception of car behaviour in such conditions) pulls out in front of you, it gives you more chance of avoiding them. Slopes, both up and down, that in the snow would defeat the car (no matter who was driving) are negotiable safely. Also, it isn't all about snow. Winter tyres operate better than summer tyres in temperatures below 7°C - way before the formation of ice. Read the technical stuff on them, and it explains why they grip better when the tread is full of snow. You choose the best tyres for grip in warm, dry conditions. Why is that? To go faster, or to drive safer?

Don't be too harsh - poor man is in pain. Hope you're feeling better soon, John.

Yes hope you are better its my turn to go to dentist for 1.5 hours of work.In essence agree with John but lesser of both evils

Sometimes depends on the car--my BMW 530D on 235/17's-rear wheel drive -nearly 2 tonnes of it laden just doesn't like snow & ice even with DSC off-neither did my Daughter's BMW 120D Sport with the wider tyres .As they live in the country north of Morpeth & both are Doctors with on-call duties,that is why they swapped the Volvo S60 (which was quite good in the snow especially with winter tyres,but was getting expensive to run) for the BMW X3(daughter works all over Northumberland) & a Skoda Citigo (for Matt's commutes to the RVI)-both now on winter tyres. That doesn't make them go everywhere faster-that just makes them able to do their jobs.

I am not in pain now but I am still deeply cynical of "winter tyres" Did the local authorities contact the tyre manufacturers and demand that they produce a winter tyre? No I think not. Let's not kid ourselves tyre manufacturers don't do it for love so if they can invent something that people will pay through the nose for even better if the governments get wind of it and make a mandate. Winter tyres or not it wouldn't have stopped the pratt BMW driver swerving in front of me at J8/9 of the M4 this afternoon. His exit lane for the A404 was blocked and he was stationary. As I came up the hill the lights were green so I took my lane for the A404 at about 35 mph where upon he swerved left, out in front of me then gave me the finger. That is my point driving skills need to be improved. I take the point of those who have said that skills need to be refreshed and of course there will be a cost associated with assessment and refreshing if we go down that route, so either way their is a cost impact. For me I will drive the Ax gti when there is snow on the ground, and get 40 to the gallon. It served me well over two winters before I retired over a distance of 30 miles to work at 5 in the morning with snow on the roads.

Lol are you being serious or is this a wind up? If you're just angry about something step away from the keyboard Winter tyres provide much more grip than summer tyres in cold conditions. Fact. If you think this is just a cynical marketing ploy, and/or you think more grip isn't something that drivers should pay for then I'm lost. Examples of idiocy on the road are irrelevant. It is a standalone demonstrable fact. Or should I be using my hopeless semi slick TOYO 888s in the winter as grip is totally overrated?

Just to go off on a slight tangent, if i was to buy C4 wheels for my turbo (10J vs 11J) would i be ok using a 20mm spacer on each side as i think turbo are 45 and the C4 are 65? Cheers Chris

My winter tyres are on turbo look replica wheels from Design 911. The offet was ET47 which I think was for Boxsters/Caymans. I use 15mm H&R spacers to get the track back to what it was. They are really good quality spacers and came with proper longer wheel bolts with the rotating collar. Got them off ebay from a German firm which saves you about £30-50. If you don't use spacers, the car looks funny from the back as the track is slightly narrower. It also rolls more in corners and the narrower track has the same effect as raising the centre of gravity. With the spacers, the car handles as it should.

If the Turbo wheels are 11"-RO45 and the C4 wheels are 10"-RO65, then that should work, but you might need a bit more than 20mm if you want to maintain the outer edge in the same place. I always find this a useful calculator for wheel offsets: http://www.1010tires.com/Tools/Wheel-Offset-Calculator#

Richard, Is the 1010 version better than the one on rennlist? http://rennlist.com/forums/tire_rim_calculator.php

I just did the numbers and it is quite a bit more. I can use that calculator now tho to work out which ones i can fit.

That's handy in that includes the overall diameter difference. 1010 has a separate calculator for that.

I don't doubt that winter tyres offer more grip except at 5 in the morning on black ice so the last bend you came around optimising the speed/grip ratio has just put you further into the hedge. My trusty little Citroen AX used to get me to work in four inches of snow ready for a 5:30 arrival through the worst of five winters without winter tyres, and no accidents, before even the gritters had been out. slowly creep up to third at leave it there about 18/20 miles an hour. Yes its part wind up part serious.

I have winter tyres on my C4s and they are fantastic. As they are blocky tread, they move slightly around corners and develop heat much like track wet tyres do. Havent changed my driving style as much as I did the year before when I used summer tyres only. Stopping distances are good but the main thing is the heat generated below 7c and the way they travel through mud and snow thrown into the road. I live in Suffolk so there is plenty of dodgy roads here. Nokian WR front and rear

ive found some wheels but they will require a 20mm spacer on each side. Does that seem like to much? Cheers Chris

Chris Good luck with getting organised with a set for the turbo. I am delighted with your Boxster wheels and Vredestein Wintrac's, which have coped brilliantly with the conditions here in high South Lanarkshire and elsewhere. To be fair there was a moment last month when I attempted an overtake from about 15 mph in falling snow and experienced a triple fishtail which must have amused the guy behind me, but at least it demonstrated how much torque a 993 engine has at fairly low revs and how controllable a 993 is when the back end lets go. [ ][ ][ ] I'd had the car about a month at that point........ For me the point is that the tyres are formulated to work at these low temperatures. Having lived in Germany where we had winter tyres on our cars Dec-Mar inclusive, even way back in the 80's (yes, I really am that old!) and knowing what happened if you didn't use them, which was that you got stuck or worse, there's no question in my mind about the benefits. I can still remember my first time on snow in a Saab 900 turbo, approaching a t-junction very cautiously and sliding uncontrollably across it to the fury of the German drivers who had priority. The Michelin TRX's were brilliant on a wet or dry road but might as well have been slicks in the winter. The handbook actually said that grip would be greatly reduced in cold weather and in truth there was none. On the other hand the 123-series Merc estate which followed it was amazing on its winter tyres. It would go up any hill and braking was not an issue. Of course you had to do all the usual things, such as avoiding high revs, driving smoothly, changing early etc but there was never any doubt about getting from A to B, even though there was snow for much of the winter. Of course wheels were smaller and tyres narrower in those days and no doubt someone with the right qualifications on this forum can explain the effects of these differences. There's no doubt in my mind about the improved performance of winter tyres at winter temperatures, even in our comparatively mild winters, and I agree that they should be compulsory. We might then be spared some of the news footage of queues of stranded vehicles and we might even see our insurance premiums come down a little bit with fewer multiple crashes involving commuters. In my dreams.....

Glad you're enjoying them, finding a set at a reasonable price for a turbo is seemingly quite tricky. Im toying with just buying a brand new set from somewhere like design 911 but it works out at £840 just for alloys.