Clean Bores anyone?

Hi - Quick Question... When you all bought your 996s and had your PPIs - did everyone get a borescope done - and if so, presumably, there was no scoring found?... Just checking that it is not a myth to find a completely score free 996 engine... Thanks Greg

I wasn't paranoid enough to bother with all that stuff, just got a guarantee and crossed everything! I'm running a slightly better oil than normal; a 10W-50 with a bit of zddp which should help.

I would say the vast majority of forum members do not go to the expense of a boroscope inspection, let alone the general public.

Was this more an issue with 997 bores mainly on bank 2, lesser so with 996? Hartec have a comprehensive guide online and offer borescope inspection.

Greg I did not go through this when I bought my car a couple of years ago. I bought from a good dealer with a warranty. Engine still fine after adding another 16000 miles, using Mobil 1. (Hope this is not tempting fate!!)

It was reported as a potential problem with the 996, something about a hot spot weakening the oil film in a small area in two pots iirc. If you suffered from every problem reported on the internet you wouldn't even dare hide under the kitchen table!

Would a bore score test see any problems with my Cylinder Heads I know I have a problem with oil in the water. Lincolnshire Porsche specialist replaced Oil Cooler Absolutely no help at all did not fix it (1200.00) So its down to engine out and test for Cylinder Head gasket (I should be so lucky), cracked Cylinder head. or Potential D section . Obviously need to Get engine out and tested. BUT At present I cant afford to fix it Local Porsche specialist says engine out and remove Cylinder Heads replace Gaskets and reinstall engine about 2.5 k Hartech have quoted more but said it could cost me 8 k. If it was a car that was worth 20k I would get it rebuilt

Can't you just get a compression test done? That would show up an issue with the head gasket. A D-chuck failure would be terminal.

I don't think its a compression test problem as the engine runs superbly, There is only a tiny bit of emulsifying in the oil filler tube and the oil is clean. I have just drained the water and apart from the emulsified oil that floats the water is as clean as when I put it in 2000 miles ago. I am hoping that a head gasket has gone allowing oil into the water. Not sure why it doesn't happen the other way round Hoping it is not a head as they are 2k each. I suppose I a waiting for the time I can afford to do it up in a few months time

The oil pressure is much higher than the water pressure. I think that head gasket problems are rarer than cyinder head problems, which themselves are rare.

Hi Richard Had a chat with my local indy when I took mine for the MOT last week, they said the last time they had oil contamination in the cooling system they ended up using an engine flush in the system to break up the oil and flush it through - took ages and very messy. They might have a s/h 3.4 cylinder head if it proves to be that.

Thank you for your reply Richard and Chris I presume by Oil Pressure being higher than water pressure this would explain why ive OIL in the water. Not Water in the Oil. ? Have flushed the water again after getting this much out after dropping the water from the engine (Note WAter VERY clean) Am making sure the oil is EXACTLY on level and will test it again. Expecting Emulsified oil as I didn't do a properflush Chris can you find out which head he has and what price. Thanks

This was the oil in the water

That is a fair amount of oil. I've seen pictures of a header tank with less oil in it than that after a D-chunk failure.

This was not in the Header tank but in the gallon or so when I dropped the water from the back hose where it goes into the engine Thanks

+1 - that is a lot of oil!.

Little of topic maybe ,( sorry op). but am I right in saying that 3.4 suffer less from bore score as opposed to the 3.6 ? Therefor a 3.4 with a new ims and rms and a low temp thermostat would eliminate most of the issues .? Thanks

...and again I refer to this rather excellent article..... http://www.autofarm.co.uk/pdf/Total911_July06.pdf Good luck!

That guide says 'The later 3.6 engine is pretty much problem free' I don't think so.

Have contacted Hartech They are really in the business of rebuilding the whole engine on a might as well basis. ie While its stripped down you might as well replace everything that is worn Not much change out of 10k Quite right and the way to go if its a car worth 25k plus or going to appreciate However I don't think I can justify this So am looking at a local Porsche specialist who will drop the engine remove the heads and report. Hopefully it will be a Head Gasket or Cylinder Head and not a D section but the report should show that Waiting for a price In the mean time I have used some Steel Seal which is guaranteed to do no harm and has a money back guarantee if it doesn't work If it fixes the problem then great if not ive had another month or so out of the car. I can only repeat Car runs superby, No coolant in Oil and actually when I dropped the coolant at the weekend it was as clean as when I put it in. Just the Emulsified Oil Fitting a magnetic Oil Plug a a safety check. Also I repeat there was no indication of any metal in the oil when it was changed 1200 miles ago So lets see what happens Thanks to everybody

Just getting back on topic... Had my 3rd Borescope done (3rd attempt at buying a 996) by OPC in Hatfield - the engine was a replacement by porsche in OPC Exeter 2011 and had done 13K miles since. Scoring on 5 out of the 6 cylinders with very dirty plugs.[ ] The OPC engineer advised me "if it was them - they would walk away" The engine is out of warranty so no comeback I haven't had a borescope done that has come back with no scoring yet .... I'm beginning to believe that scoring is normal and they all have it to some degree - Thoughts ??

Not surprised its got dirty plugs if its only done 13k in 4 years. Very low mileage means the car hasn't be used - Not a good thing!! If you had it done by Porsche dealer they have incredibly high standard ASk them how bad it is or perhaps sent the scoring detail to RichardH

My first boxster rusted a core plug in the head so filled engine up with water so I rebuilt it luckily I am in the trade and its what I do for a living, my second Boxster had worn and pitted bores and worn cam guides, So I am currently building that in to a linerd 3.4lt big bore engine. Mark

Not having a pop at Hatfield, but it is important that whoever is looking through the horoscope needs to have experience in what they are looking for and importantly, what they are looking at. I am not sure how many bore inspections the average OPC does and narrowing it further, how many each individual 'engineer' (read mechanic) at an OPC have sufficient experience to be critical at what they are looking at. Having seen (elsewhere) the money they have charged for this (albeit with a 111 point inspection) you got spanked with the price (big time). Personally I would use one of the respected indy's for this horoscope - a number will do the111 for free (particularly if you are paying for the bore inspection).

Hi all Going back a few years, then best indicator you had re bore wear apart from stripping things was a compression test. Forgive my ignorance, but if you had concerns would that not be a route go down? For as stated previously you really need to now what your looking at. easy to fine irrelevant marks or scores on any used motor. Just my thoughts.

We are now beginning to get some useful info. You are talking about a car that is approaching 13 years ols (at least) Porsche centres would not have worked on these for 5 bears and as Chris Says how experienced are they. If you are near Bolton Take it to Harteck or in the South one of other specialist re builders (there is one in Oxfordshire Use a local Porsche Indy these guys are working on them all the time and will know the significance of this scoring

Hi Guys Personally I would be far more concerned with IMS issues on a 996, on a 997 bore scoring would be more of a concern to me. That said I doubt very much that I would go as far as getting a bore-scope check done. If I was that concerned then I would walk away. There is always someone will to take advantage especially if you are overly obsessed with a certain issue. After all as stated earlier what are you expecting to see on a 10 year plus engine? Have you read info on Peter Morgan's website? Well worth a read, try to put your mind to rest get the best looked after car you can, with regular oil changes, and like most of us dive it and enjoy. Just my thoughts.

Some good advice... thanks all. The seller has been seeking a second opinion and believes that the marking within the cylinders are not a concern. The other issues with the vehicle are fairly minor - so at the right price - I may go for this one. Just need another chat with the engineer who did the PPI and try and leave my paranoia at home..

A GUT feeling is the most important. Do you LOVE the car, will you be disappointed to walk away When I spoke to Hartech about the cost of re building the engine they are talking aboyt 5k fitted, A bit less if it is Gaske a LOT more if it is Heads or bore cracked!! Don't forget this particular car has done 13k so the serious problems that might effect my engine is unlikely to effect yours. As I have already mentioned it is NOT a good thing to have a VERY low mileage car or engine and can be more of a problem than a properly maintained HIGH mileage car. Foiled plugs are probably because the car has never been driven hard!!. I remember in the early days of Fuel Injection you needed to do good long mileage - look at the crap the taxis pump out because they haven't had a decent long fast run I once bought a SR1 Cavalier (Nice car) which had done 18k in three years ran like an old FART. Was advised to run it 40 miles in third at full revs after putting a pint of oil in the fuel tank about 1/4 full (Redex!!) Ran like a dream and plugs and injectors great! (After filling up the Fuel Tank) Sounds like this car has not been used. JUst as a matter of interest Since the problem with my car I have started looking at what to replace it with. (Black, Auto 4S Convertible) with Fixed Spoiler and Side skirts and have found nothing under 20 k that LOOKS as good. Have just sen a beautiful one in Halifax - 28k (Need to win the lottery) So when our money comes through looks like we will do what is necessary REmember a car over 10 years old is going to cost money. It does not make sebce to spend that kind of money on a 12 year old car BUT WE ARE NOT TALIKNG ABOUT SENCE. As the guy at Harteck said Its a matter of the Heart Ruling to head!! FINALLY The steel seal SEEMS to be working. Absolutly no oil in the water - done about 100 miles. Here is hoping!! Go on instinct- if the engine was replace 4 years ago and has done 13 k it is less likely to have serous problems

Before you buy just give Hartech a ring and tell him about the bores THEY ARE REALLY HELPFUL

Thanks for all advice - Well I went back to this one and bought it [ ] - its been a week of ownership and I am happy that I made the right decision. (This followed several emails and discussions with Porsche specialists on the subject of scored bores) I had a full service yesterday and some items are failing (Aircon Condenser/Front Suspension + smaller things) but I do have a slush fund for these items and nothing was reported against the engine. One of the best things (apart from the drive) is it's meticulous history - I'm the 3rd owner and I have every bill from the bill of sale onwards - including a fully stamped service book by OPC and the 13K engine replacement invoice back in 2009 ...I have made contact with the original owner (who had the car for 12 years) who gave me details of all of the items he was aware was wrong with the car when he traded in (for a 991 cab). These matched the items in the service report - so I'm pretty confident I have trapped everything that needs to be done (so far) I've already asked the first owner to sell me the 991 in 10 years [ ] Oh yes - a Picture ....

Looking good. Just try not to get to paranoid about thing you may here. Its got to be the best value sports car in the world. I have a car that has done 105k since 2001 and when I had problems with the engine I spoke to the guys at Harteck his comment was that if you own a car like this its because your Heart has ruled your head He genuinely believes that they will go up in value an money spend, while not an investment, will not be totally lost. Eversince I bought my car I have had a small amount of oil in the water and this came to head 5 months ago (The same time the Canadian Lancaster blew an engine in Durham) and I was told it was the oil cooler which I had replaced THis did not cure the problem and a n engine out head removal was recommended. However I did contact a Porsche specialist in mid Wales who said try some Steel Seal. This would A) Cure the Problem totally, b) Cure it until I could afford the above engine out c) Do Nothing - in which case I could get my money back., Its looking very good Hardly any oil. More important no Oil Loss although only time will tell Would I have done this to a 30k, of course not. But my car has an insurance value of 14k so thought it was worth trying. Have fun with your car, hopefully will meet you sometime

Greg Car looks great, will look better when the sun comes out again! Enjoy

Well done Greg. Looks nice - relax and enjoy it!

What a lovely looking 996. Enjoy !! [ ]