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YOUR RESEARCHHoovie's 996 LS swap from the Car Wizard's POV
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Install but he shot
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
When I took it to my local LS tuner, I was hot to have an Accusump (like Chavis Performace Engineering installs) installed but he shot that idea down, preferring instead on a baffled pan with trap doors, which was on back order and never installed.
Leading evidence: 'Install but he shot' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'he will' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Install but he shot' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I've driven an LSx swapped E36M3 on the street and autox and, while faster, lost the magic.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Chavis Performance Engineering (Swapped Porsche on FB) sells parts, harnesses and turnkey solutions.
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Suspected cause
Because he needs content, I suspect he will before long.
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Install but he shot
No successful repair reported for this finding.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
When I took it to my local LS tuner, I was hot to have an Accusump (like Chavis Performace Engineering installs) installed but he shot that idea down, preferring instead on a baffled pan with trap doors, which was on back order and never installed.
Run professionally in the highest levels of motorsports
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Suggestion
This is not a spec racer thing, these engines have been run professionally in the highest levels of motorsports for the past 20 years, there is no comparison to the development between LS and M96 engines.
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66 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
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Outcome without a verified action link
Hoovie to his credit showed us that oil starvation is a real issue, but Wizard did not solve for it the first time nor the second time.
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I like the idea of 450WHP with parts for repairs I can get at Autozone and huge aftermarket support for things like dry sumps�. Among others.
So yeah - I like it too brother 😎
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Anyone drive a LSx swapped 996? Renegade has been doing swaps almost since the 996 was new - so I imagine there are tons of them out there.
I've driven an LSx swapped E36M3 on the street and autox and, while faster, lost the magic. I've had lots of high hp e36m3s (turbo,sc,euro), so it wasn't a purist or 'big hp bad' mindset. Driving at 9/10s, having less torque of a stock motor was actually more fun as you could stay 9/10s almost everywhere. A tabletop curve of 500wtq both covers up and exacerbates bad driver input. This was a cable throttle car, so maybe e-throttle could get back some of the linear feel.
Ummm - what if you just want a fast C2 or C4 that has a motor that is reliable, 400HP plus and an be replaced for under $10K....
Would you use your jackass analogy to describe the car below ? Just want to know what kind of car guy I'm dealing with here...
You Tube
You Tube
I’m not anti power I just feel why mess with purity if it’s only about going faster why cover it in with a mink coat
just set up the American muscle car of your choice
im sure if your favorite brand item used a substitute and sold it to as the real deal you might be upset I know I would
I feel this way about any person swapping one brand engine into another like a guy that has a Subaru engine in an E30 M3
no a hater just a purist
As a starting point, we can all do what ever we want with our own cars. With all due respect to the purists, I don't think its any great secret that Porsche dropped the ball with the M96 family of engines in pursuit of bigger profits. Many, many failure points of concern. Personally, I've always thought that if my 99 C2 Cabrio's M96 ever grenaded on me, I would attempt an LS3/480hp swap. The prospect of that much horsepower while actually shedding 100lbs of weight is very attractive. The LS swaps I've seen and heard are friggin awesome! Combine that with the fact that the LS engine is reliable, no more IMS/Overheating//cam chain pads/d-chunk/tensioner pads/AOs's/etc,etc,etc. How cool would that be to have a reliable 996 with almost super car performance at a reasonable cost, say $20K or less? Probably cost you that much or more to rebuild an M96 and it still wouldn't outperform or be as reliable an LS3. My secret wish would be to do the LS swap into a 944: 480hp, transaxle car, 50/50 weight balance, oh my!
Just watched the video, probably should have done that first, but this guy's heartburn appears to be with the deadline he was up against and the lack of post sale tech support from Renegade. I've been working on cars and motorcycles as a hobby for 48 years, and although not a certified or factory trained mechanic, I think I might have foreseen the oil sump/pick-up tube issue, so that kind of surprised me. Sounds like he has good things to say about the LS swap after they got it straightened out. And the reality is that too many people go out and buy our cars and have the engine blow up in a short period of time. now they're stuck with a roller which they'll be lucky to get 25 to 30% of their purchase price for. So, the LS swap is a very appealing proposition.
Someone would really have to know what they are doing to make a muscle car handle the way that Porsche handles.
I agree on the Subaru M3 part though.
The 911 should have a 911 motor, but the second the engine goes, and replacement is more than the car is worth, I applaud anyone who thinks outside the box and delivers a solution that actually works well.
It would indeed be a sad day if everyone were to replace their glorious flat-6 with an LS motor. But I�d rather see an LS 911 than a 911 that ends up parted out and then ultimately crushed (do they even crush 911s?)
Would love to take one out on the track to see the difference in handling characteristics with the higher center of gravity.
Be interesting to see if and how the Wizard solves for oil starvation, not to mention the true costs, and if Hoovie will then take it out on the track. Because he needs content, I suspect he will before long.
Folks who are against engine swaps are just like vegans, without asking, they're gonna tell yea.
They do in the Philippines:
https://robbreport.com/motors/cars/p...0r-1234620385/
You know the answer, the Wizard didn't address the oil starvation issue. All he did was put in a baffled pan. Hence not wanting it tracked.
However, Hoovie and Wizard need content. So I suspect they will find a solution just like we are as 996 owners, and we will hear about it.
Seems that the LS has the same issues as the M96 after all.
One of my friends had an LS swapped 944 Turbo. It was great! But not on the track as it overheated almost immediately. The radiator is too small and there was no way to get a bigger radiator in there. So he upgraded to a 996 Turbo.
Funny thing is that you can get a lot of performance out of a 944 turbo. Here in the Chicago region, we have a lot of guys still racing them, and they are fast and competitive. Not to mention they are durable as hell.
I get the interest in an LS being dropped in a bunch of different cars. Don't know if it's the answer for the track. But it's always an interesting discussion.
It's the answer for everything when you can buy them out of trucks cars and suvs out of the junkyard for 500$ and it will make 1500hp with gapped rings and rod bolts
Hah. Wait till the electric motor wave gets stronger. This one I don't get. But I look at it as a positive. Just gives us a supply of more M96 engines that we can rebuild and run with biofuel. Always wanted a second engine in the garage just in case.
Hah! The LS in a 944 would just be for show and tell. Start it up, rev it, drive it in a straight line and then turn it off.
Porsche did a damn good job with the S2 engine and Turbo engine. I have buddies that have been racing these things since the mid 2000's, and as the battery commercial says, they keep going and going and going.
The old tune was garbage.
I would have liked to have seen peak power a little higher, that said - mustang dynos are notorious for reading low. Would be nice to see what it runs at the strip to see some trap speeds.
It would be cool if they could figure out how to position a mushroom filter where the cutout for the deck lid fan is, have it pull fresh air and would be nicely segregated from the engine compartment.
Above 300 FT/LBS from 2.8K to red line. Probably feels pretty spicy.
Bought the car in May, took months for all the parts to come in & get on the LS-guru's calendar. He says the bottleneck now is the small intake. Other than the high intake temperature (usually 20 degrees above ambient when moving, creeps up at stoplights) it runs very, very cool. Open to ideas on how to get a cold air intake without rain (daily drive this thing). This month I'm busy installing DeJeeper's GT3 interior.
If I was going to swap a Non-Porsche engine into a 996, it would be an LS. Seems to fit better than the K24. Bayliner had to hack up the 996 to fit it. Kinda silly for a Honda engine in a Porsche. Not to mention the LS sounds better. Still want to drive a LS powered 996 on the track.
Have no clue if at the end of the day if it would actually be cheaper than a M96 rebuild. Especially if you count in the value reduction of the car over time, because it's no longer a classic Porsche. But you will have a boatload of power for the track. The question is, how easy is it to swap it out and swap back in the M96 engine. Then you could realize the value of the 996 and LS engine way down the road.
Ask this guy... says it runs with 991.2 cup cars which is.... ridiculously fast.
https://www.racingjunk.com/other/184...e-racecar.html
Or these guys...
https://kmcauto.com/project-cars/por...-gold-racecar/
Tune to 16:30 in the video if it does not take you right there.
You Tube
The 2015 invoice for my crate LS3 was about $8500, so I strongly suspect that a rebuild will be extremely reasonable for those used to paying Porsche prices. Mine was a Renegade kit and there was some cutting done to some rear sheet metal. Chavis Performance Engineering (Swapped Porsche on FB) sells parts, harnesses and turnkey solutions. CPE favors Accusumps for ensuring positive oil supply for tracked cars but my LS guru shot that down as unnecessary and instead opted for a baffled pan.
Can't speak to track performance as I haven't done a DE day on my car, much less a regular 996 but is the center of gravity really significantly higher? It's an OHV (not OHC) engine with a composite intake. Somebody as ham-handed as me wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
Value? They made 175k 996s, they ain't rare. After owning a garage-queen M3, I'm happy to have a tossable, powerful, unique car that no one expects me to wash. I can modify it and pile on the miles, guilt-free.
One downside is that the mid-cam LS3 only return about 15.8 mpg vs 26+ for the factory M96. Still better than the 14.7 I got on my showroom-stock V8 M3 though.
I get the LS for cheap replacement and power. Still don't get the K24. But, thats what makes the world an exciting place. That's why Baskin Robbins has so many different flavors.
K24's are cheaper than the LS' we're talking about, by a lot, and they are a turbo away from an easy 500WHP.
The plug change hassle and turbo plumbing make it a non-starter for me. If someone really wants to swap in something with a turbo on a narrow body car...Please buy a dirt cheap boxster motor and turbo that. I think that could be a pretty killer swap.
Yeah, I watched Bayside's swap. He is a very talented fabricator, but he is fiting a rectangular peg in a flat hole. But he did eventually fit it. What kills me is the sound. Imagine driving one of those things around the track. You would certainly be the fastest guy, because everyone would have to pull over from laughter at a 996 that sounds like a souped up civic. You wouldn't have that problem with an LS. Remember when Brumos ran the Grand Am Daytona Prototypes with a Cayenne engine? Sounded great.
Love to actually see some footage on the track against other cars. I know it's out there but haven't found any. Plenty of videos of guys starting the car and driving it around town and in parking lots which is inconsequential. But nobody showing a 996 LS with a dry sump on the track at the limit for extended periods of time. Nor anyone showing or discussing the true issues with the engine in a 996 on the track. Nor measuring them like Jason did last season.
Hoovie to his credit showed us that oil starvation is a real issue, but Wizard did not solve for it the first time nor the second time. Still scratching my head on why wizard didn't solve for it the second time. You would think that his "swap parts" supplier would sell him on how to fix the issue. The first go around, hoovie was on a shoestring budget. This second go around, hoovie has lots of subscribers and lots of cash flow. Continue to scratch my head.
That install above looks tastefully done, though it doesn't do much good for the track guys if you end up with some of the same problems that they already have. I'm assuming the Vette guys who race have this figured out, albeit oriented differently due the way the engine is mounted?
My uneducated guess would be that it's no different than how the Spec 996 PCA Club racers have figured it out. Issues still exists and they work around them the best they can. But isn't that the reality of every car and engine?
I would imagine addressing oil starvation would be something every racer would have to face, unless somehow you have something already less susceptible to that. In my case I'd be worried more about whether I'd lose AC or some other compromise in comfort or something that makes it even more difficult to service. Different needs, but still interesting to see what people come up with.
I am beginning to think that Skip and George could design and manufacture just about anything. Thinking long and hard about what their next invention is to solve a problem...
Have a few guesses but time will tell.
The main difference in being able to beef up any engine for hard use is aftermarket support. The LS, has tons. They are abundant, affordable and very efficient so there is a lot of competition in the aftermarket to feed the vast amount of projects the engines get stuffed into, from 1K HP sand rails and drag cars to hot rods etc...
This is not a spec racer thing, these engines have been run professionally in the highest levels of motorsports for the past 20 years, there is no comparison to the development between LS and M96 engines.
You can buy an engine from Katech today, they built the Corvette Racing program engines that won LeMans 6 times...
https://katechengines.com/motorsports/
ETA... by the way as an aside... Just looking at the Katech crate motors, they come complete with EVERYTHING down to the coils, looks like their high spec race motors are comparable in price to a high end M96 build... But, they are in stock and make 712 HP
https://shop.katechengines.com/produ...ine-race-spec/
You Tube
There are two sounds that I will never forget. (1) F1 10 cylinder at Indy in the early 2000's at 18k rpm. (2) the ALMS corvette engine at Road America in the 2000's. Beside the F1 engine, the vette engine was the most incredible and distinct sound I ever heard. Loud, low, booming power. You would get goose bumps as they went by.
Matra v12 screaming through the woods at Watkins Glen in the early 1970's. Hal Keck in the Auto World 427 Cobra doing dirt track turns up Duryea Drive in Reading PA around the same time. I can close my eyes and still hear them.
At WG the night the crowd burned down the large latrine building. 100,000 (mostly young) people singing "...burn s***house..burn..." in the middle of the night. Security guys weren't interested.... I always enjoyed sitting on the berm on the outside of Turn 3 at the bottom......great sounds and memories....
[QUOTE=zbomb;17878084]Ask this guy... says it runs with 991.2 cup cars which is.... ridiculously fast.
https://www.racingjunk.com/other/184...e-racecar.html
Just found the video attached to the sale sheet. Also found the owners YuTube page with more track footage.
Mega power! More power than what the chassis can handle. You gotta stay awake with that car on the track. Nothing smooth about it. But the power from the 500 HP LS engine and therefore speed is incredible.
Would love to see the footage from a 996 chassis on the track versus a shorter wheelbase 1970's 911 chassis that was made to look like a 996. Extra length and width of the 996 chassis may add more stability.
If you find any videos, post them. Fascinating topic.
The PO of my LS3 996 was a PCA instructor who'd done hundreds of laps at Sebring in the car. When I took it to my local LS tuner, I was hot to have an Accusump (like Chavis Performace Engineering installs) installed but he shot that idea down, preferring instead on a baffled pan with trap doors, which was on back order and never installed. Eventually I'll take it on the track but low skills are probably the more immediate limiting factor. Other than the intake temperature creeping up at stop lights, the car actually runs very very cool.
I'm curious to know why your tuner advised against an accusump. A trap door baffle is good but an accusump is cheap insurance. Personally, I see a minimum of 11-15psi difference in corners with an accusump (10psi vs 20-25psi minimum). One of those scenarios is a blown engine and the other is potentially a saved one.
