Stick or Twist: Carrera GTS to Cayman GTS? - Page 3 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

OK, looking for some opinion on this primarily from those that actually have done something similar or contemplated the same. Currently have a 997 Carrera GTS w/PDK owned for 3yrs since new and covered 23K - I'm approaching that pivotal point where you may or may not choose to change. I've been awaiting for Porsche to do something good with the Cayman and although I have loved my 911, i've always thought that the Cayman could possibly be a good car for me also. Ultimately what should i do - hang on to the 997 or take the plunge and move to the Cayman GTS? I have spent some time test driving Cayman S and found it to be great - particularly with the sports exhaust - the excitement and aural responses are more easily accessible but will I miss the 911 factor and the power? 408hp/310lbft vs 340hp/280lbft although the Cayman is lighter. There is a financial implication also - but really just looking for thoughts on the cars at the moment.

Buy the Cayman, every time you are passed or see a 911 you will wish you had back what you own today!

What are the financial implications? Your 997 GTS (with PDK) will have already taken a big hit in depreciation, so the cost of service and renewing the warranty is likely to be secondary. The Cayman GTS (with PDK) will cost you more (my presumption) and will depreciate harder. So you'll pay more for less performance and practicality. I could understand if you were changing and wanted a manual car but the only reason to swap is for change sake. No right or wrong but I'd keep the 997.

Financial aspects are that I have equity in the 997 from my current deal with 9 months or so to run on the fixed term and a ballon payment at the end. I did already renew the warranty for an additional year earlier this year. I can use the equity as deposit on the new car and have reduced monthly payments (obviously on the new deal over 3yrs etc) vs current. Or keep the current car on the current deal and then decide at the end to use the car as deposit on another in 9 months or keep it and pay off the ballon. Financially this is about maximising the value of the 997 which whilst holding up now will continue to drop, although reaching the shallower parts of the curve. New cars always have a steep curve. I'm aware of the depreciation discussion - don't want this to be a depreciation thread - and just want to think/talk about the merits or drawbacks of each vehicle vs the other, and whether if you were in my position you would stick or twist for the Cayman GTS, or even look at something else entirely. It is a bit of change for changes sake - but we love cars right? Edited by TDT on Sunday 22 June 09:11

I have had 2 - 997's, an S and a GT3. Now in a 981 CS and don't agree with the previous poster about regretting selling up the 911. If you owned the car outright, I would have thought it made financial sense to stay put, but as you are effectively renting them, why not go for it? Only one person can ultimately answer this conundrum, as it depends what you want from the car and can only refer back to my opening sentence?

Sensible thing would be to pay the balloon and own the 997. It will stop depreciating in a few years and may even then start to slightly appreciate.

Stick as you'll miss the hydraulic steering from your 997

If we putting the financials aside is the car used as a daily driver or weekend car? Do you use the rear seats?

I would say mainly a daily driver - I use my 997 as much as I can, apart from very short trips. I do have another car, Jeep Patriot which I use for stuff that the 997 isn't appropriate for. My wife also has her own car. No Kids yet and rarely use the back seats in the 997. Have had two seaters as my only car before, so no issue with losing those - nice to have option on the 911 though. So basically i view the Porsche as my main car, the Jeep is my backup.

Currently using a new Cayman S PDK alongside my 911 GTS PDK. Okay, the Cayman GTS has a touch more power and torque than the S but there won t be much in it on the road confirmed by recent tests. I find the Cayman quite a good overall package and on an average dry fast B road there wouldn t be much difference in performance between it and the GTS. I find the main difference is at the top end when the GTS would kill the Cayman....you are also more aware you are driving something special and less synthetic with the GTS largely down to its now obsolete but sublime neutral steering (2wd), of course lost on the Caymans electric setup. The typical 997 911 idiosyncrasies also appeal giving it a greater sense of occasion. I know you specifically weren t iinterested in depreciation etc, but personally I think the GTS will become quite collectable and prices have stayed strong over the last 2years, helped latterly perhaps by the rising prices of 997 GT3s.....

av185 said: I find the main difference is at the top end when the GTS would kill the Cayman....you are also more aware you are driving something special and less synthetic with the GTS largely down to its now obsolete but sublime neutral steering (2wd), of course lost on the Caymans electric setup. The typical 997 911 idiosyncrasies also appeal giving it a greater sense of occasion. Having driven 997.2s and a 991 4S with PSE, one thing you'll absolutely notice on the Cayman GTS though is the noise. The Cayman GTS will be louder than a Cayman S with PSE -- in the GTS there's sound tubes coming off the intakes that feed to grates right behind the seats. A Cayman S with PSE is already quite a bit noisier than a current Carrera S with PSE. I'm expecting the Cayman GTS to be on par with a 996 GT3.

Goofnik said: Having driven 997.2s and a 991 4S with PSE, one thing you'll absolutely notice on the Cayman GTS though is the noise. The Cayman GTS will be louder than a Cayman S with PSE -- in the GTS there's sound tubes coming off the intakes that feed to grates right behind the seats. A Cayman S with PSE is already quite a bit noisier than a current Carrera S with PSE. I'm expecting the Cayman GTS to be on par with a 996 GT3. So yes - this was something that gave me a lot of food for thought, and i mentioned in my initial post I have had a Cayman S with PSE for a day and it was the noise and the amount of noise in comparison to my current car that really stood out over the same route and roads. Roar, pops, bangs and crackles. I know a lot of this comes by having the engine just over your shoulder vs a bit further back, but it really sounded exotic by comparison - some of it is engineered in, but even so I have to be really on it in my 997 GTS to get the same, and on today's roads it's just asking for trouble. Sensory satisfaction seems to be delivered much more readily in the Cayman S, and to think that the Cayman GTS has been tweaked for even more sound into the cabin. On it's day the 997 GTS has an incredible howl of its own too.

IMI A said: Sensible thing would be to pay the balloon and own the 997. It will stop depreciating in a few years and may even then start to slightly appreciate. Agreed! Are you crazy man??? I love the GTS, it's a beautiful car, and my head always spins 180 degrees when I see one on the road. They are heading north in terms of appreciation.

Yes, I agree about the exhaust...my Cayman S has PSE which does sound good if a touch boomy..... and probably even better still on the Cayman GTS. The other thing I didn t refer to was the PDK box on the Cayman which is much quicker and sweeter than the GTS 911.....Cayman throttle blips on downchanges but of course this is nothing new...same on the E46 M3...... .....

av185 said: The other thing I didn t refer to was the PDK box on the Cayman which is much quicker and sweeter than the GTS 911 Yes, this the evolution of PDK from the 9x7.2 to 9x1 - software changed and recalibration. Really is excellent now and actually adds to the driving experience now in some respects IMO. Manual 6spd will always have the involvement edge - but as an experience and in every other measurable way PDK has the advantage.

You'd be mad to change. A lot of money for a car that is probably overall about as good and in some ways inferior.

ORD said: You'd be mad to change. A lot of money for a car that is probably overall about as good and in some ways inferior. Please elaborate - trying to think about this from all angles.

TDT said: ORD said: You'd be mad to change. A lot of money for a car that is probably overall about as good and in some ways inferior. Please elaborate - trying to think about this from all angles. Basically, whilst a Cayman is very good and probably brilliant in its cutting edge GTS format and a better drivers car than the new M3 M4, it is nevertheless no 911, and in GTS format the 911 takes some beating, being as quick and as involving in the real world as a 997 GT3 but without the compromises on usability. Someone once said the 997 C2S to the 997 GTS is like the 997 GT3 3.8 RS is to the great 997 GT3 4.0 RS. Praise indeed, and not far wrong IMO....

I agree that it’s really a wash. If I had a 997.2 Carrera GTS, I’d stick with it. I’m coming from a Mazda MX-5 though, so I spent a lot of time driving everything up to $100K USD. The Cayman S won me over but I knew the GTS was coming months before it was leaked by Jalopnik, so I left a deposit back in September 2013 and waited first in line until I got my allocation. Cayman GTS Pros: * Better overall balance, no pendulum rhythm * Easier to push to the limit * Better aural experience (intakes and engine near your head, revised PSE with sound symposers) * Revised PDK is better * Optional X73 SS nearly eliminates all safety understeer compared to PASM * More cargo space * Better fuel efficiency 997.2 Carrera GTS Pros: * Better off-line traction, corner exit speeds, top end and low-end * Higher limit, easier to recover when you overstep the limit * Lighter front end and hydraulics offer classic 911 feel and feedback * Rear seats * Depreciation nearly over, will soon appreciate My second place car? Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Coupe 507 Edition, of all things. Mad car is mad, but I couldn’t see myself driving it forever. The Cayman GTS is a modern Dino 246 GTS, whereas it’ll never be considered beautiful, but will always be considered very handsome and is just a great driver’s car. Edited by Goofnik on Sunday 22 June 19:41

av185 said: TDT said: ORD said: You'd be mad to change. A lot of money for a car that is probably overall about as good and in some ways inferior. Please elaborate - trying to think about this from all angles. Basically, whilst a Cayman is very good and probably brilliant in its cutting edge GTS format and a better drivers car than the new M3 M4, it is nevertheless no 911, and in GTS format the 911 takes some beating, being as quick and as involving in the real world as a 997 GT3 but without the compromises on usability. Someone once said the 997 C2S to the 997 GTS is like the 997 GT3 3.8 RS is to the great 997 GT3 4.0 RS. Praise indeed, and not far wrong IMO.... Most of this is overblown and the whole 'It's a 911!!' thing is silly. BUT the 997 probably has better steering, certainly has more power and is costing you fairly little. The Cayman would be easier to drive fast, sound better and be newer but cost you an arm and a leg. Given that, even money being no object, the answer isn't obvious, I wouldn't drop thousands of pounds per year on the change.

It's not dropping thousands to change though - it's reducing monthly payments for the OP. I just changed to a well specced, lightly used 981 Cayman S PDK after 4 years in a Boxster Spyder. The steering in the Spyder is probably better even than the 997 GTS. I viewed a couple of gen 2 997s and test drove a 991 Carrera before settling on the new Cayman. It is quite a car. Drive one and see if you like it - it is easier to drive than a 997 - to some that's a bonus, to others the opposite. The interior is nicer though (mine has full leather) the PDK is amazing, the ride quality is a vast improvement and, whilst purely subjective, I think it looks great too. Not convinced that the 997 GTS is about to start appreciating, it's a nice car and all that (and will hold its value better than a new Cayman for sure) but it is one of thousands of 997s and as 991s continue to tumble down many people will prefer the younger car...

Of course it is spending thousands for the change! It's just packaged differently. It's the same amount of money - just hidden in monthly payments.

ORD said: av185 said: TDT said: ORD said: You'd be mad to change. A lot of money for a car that is probably overall about as good and in some ways inferior. Please elaborate - trying to think about this from all angles. Basically, whilst a Cayman is very good and probably brilliant in its cutting edge GTS format and a better drivers car than the new M3 M4, it is nevertheless no 911, and in GTS format the 911 takes some beating, being as quick and as involving in the real world as a 997 GT3 but without the compromises on usability. Someone once said the 997 C2S to the 997 GTS is like the 997 GT3 3.8 RS is to the great 997 GT3 4.0 RS. Praise indeed, and not far wrong IMO.... Most of this is overblown and the whole 'It's a 911!!' thing is silly. BUT the 997 probably has better steering, certainly has more power and is costing you fairly little. The Cayman would be easier to drive fast, sound better and be newer but cost you an arm and a leg. Given that, even money being no object, the answer isn't obvious, I wouldn't drop thousands of pounds per year on the change. Which 911s and which GTS have you driven or owned to give a reliable comparison with the Cayman? You are correct though in guessing that the GTS has better steering than the Cayman.....hydraulic is light years ahead of the rather inert electric steering on the Cayman and 991 Carreras.... Also you are correct saying the Cayman is easier to drive quickly.....but unfortunately it is less involving as a drivers car.....depends what you want. Also the standard Carrera GTS sports exhaust sounds more purposeful than the Cayman S PSE, so the Cayman GTS would probably be similar.....

ORD said: Of course it is spending thousands for the change! It's just packaged differently. It's the same amount of money - just hidden in monthly payments. I do know that, as am sure does the OP! But for those of us with a monthly budget and not huge chunks of spare cash it can be of some relevance...

rob.kellock said: ORD said: Of course it is spending thousands for the change! It's just packaged differently. It's the same amount of money - just hidden in monthly payments. I do know that, as am sure does the OP! But for those of us with a monthly budget and not huge chunks of spare cash it can be of some relevance... Yes fully aware - i'd be paying monthly payments on the current deal for another 9 months in the fixed term and then if i choose to keep the car, at that stage, may finance the balloon as well. Payments would be reduced on the balloon will be reduced vs my current payments - similar levels to what I'd be paying on a new Cayman GTS if I ordered and p/x the Carrera GTS and its equity against it.

Or the best and last real 911 road car, GT3 excluded...

That's quite a big exception! Lovely car but... some people say the same thing about Boxster Spyders - I just sold mine so what do I know?

anthonysjb said: Or the best and last real 911 road car, GT3 excluded... And thats the point, the 997 GT3 is the best and last real 911 road car and you cant just exclude it, thats why they are appreciating already. That being said the GTS is a bloddy nice car and i would chosse it every time over a standard 997 C2S, not too sure i would pay more for a 997 GTS than a well specced 991 C2S though??? Back on topic, Cayman GTS a very nice car indeed, i'd keep the 997 GTS though if it were me, pay the ballon down and keep it for a while.

I also think your 997 GTS would have been more collectable had it been a manual (rather than PDK). The number of manual cars if dropping so I'd expect these to be at a premium with enthusiasts in future. Also a current PDK (although good) may feel dated as the technology advances.

Some good points being made here, some good insights. Not sure it's making the choice any clearer for the OP as it's not for me! Haha

Isysman said: Some good points being made here, some good insights. Not sure it's making the choice any clearer for the OP as it's not for me! Haha LOL - you're not wrong. Went to bed last night thinking maybe I'll hang on to it but then re-read this morning and am back in limbo again!!

Keep the 911 GTS, its the better car and most of us would take it over a Cayman GTS. Its your car, you have had it from new and as long as it is solid and not cause you any pain, then save yourself the paperwork knowing you have a great car. I do have a Cayman GTS on order but is only cause I couldn't afford a 911 new and didn't want to have someone elses 2nds.

chriswren said: Keep the 911 GTS, its the better car and most of us would take it over a Cayman GTS. Its your car, you have had it from new and as long as it is solid and not cause you any pain, then save yourself the paperwork knowing you have a great car. So yes - this was the direction I was headed in last night. Every time I look @ it from rear 3/4 it just looks so mean. I have had it from new and it is my first Porsche and the 911 GTS is first Porsche I had ever driven - just wanted to keep the sentimentality out of it but it has been great on reliability, no faults, no problems. If I keep it I'm sure it will run forever.

TDT said: I'm sure it will run forever. And every year as it gets a little bit older it will become just a little bit cooler!

anonymous said: [redacted] Intimate relationship? You do worry me at times, mate. In any case, the PDK stick is well-shaped for intimacy purposes.

chriswren said: Keep the 911 GTS, its the better car and most of us would take it over a Cayman GTS. Its your car, you have had it from new and as long as it is solid and not cause you any pain, then save yourself the paperwork knowing you have a great car. I do have a Cayman GTS on order but is only cause I couldn't afford a 911 new and didn't want to have someone elses 2nds. Honestly I would say "I do have a Cayman GTS on order but is only cause I couldn't afford a 911 GT3 (997 or 991)" Not interested in the boring standard 991/997. All said, I would keep the 997 GTS, if well cared and specced (if there is not any further financial reason to take advantage of a new CGTS)

I've had a few GT3s, and Boxster Spyders, and am currently in a lovely manual 2WD GTS. Was loaned a Cayman S a week or so ago and apart from it breaking down (brake pedal switch) it was a good car but would not be an option to swap in my opinion. Then again the Cayman I used was a PDK and I'm not really a fan; I prefer the more analogue Ferrari F1 style shift. There seems to be a sway in the direction of more back to basics cars in the market, so perhaps the GTS in manual 2WD will become more desirable over time, but each to their own. The OPC was quite apologetic to loan me a Cayman over the GTS, presumably because they thought someone with a 911 would be disappointed. Personally I would rather have the chance to try a different car, but from that standpoint I much preferred the GTS.

I think I may have reached a decision on this most burning of lifes questions! (subject to an extended test drive in a couple of weeks, where I can spend some time to do back-to-back comparisons). I will be keeping my 997 GTS and maybe doing a little bit of tweaking in the form of a Sharkwerks exhaust bypass pipe and getting a new geo setup. This will hopefully yield some additional edge to the car both aurally and dynamically.

TDT said: I think I may have reached a decision on this most burning of lifes questions! (subject to an extended test drive in a couple of weeks, where I can spend some time to do back-to-back comparisons). I will be keeping my 997 GTS and maybe doing a little bit of tweaking in the form of a Sharkwerks exhaust bypass pipe and getting a new geo setup. This will hopefully yield some additional edge to the car both aurally and dynamically. It's a nice 'problem' to have though right! I think you made the right decision.

Beaver said: I've had a few GT3s, and Boxster Spyders, and am currently in a lovely manual 2WD GTS. Was loaned a Cayman S a week or so ago and apart from it breaking down (brake pedal switch) it was a good car but would not be an option to swap in my opinion. Then again the Cayman I used was a PDK and I'm not really a fan; I prefer the more analogue Ferrari F1 style shift. There seems to be a sway in the direction of more back to basics cars in the market, so perhaps the GTS in manual 2WD will become more desirable over time, but each to their own. The OPC was quite apologetic to loan me a Cayman over the GTS, presumably because they thought someone with a 911 would be disappointed. Personally I would rather have the chance to try a different car, but from that standpoint I much preferred the GTS. I've been using my OPC for three years and until the last time I put my car in (a 997 Turbo) I've never had even any Porsche as a courtesy car never mind a 911. I had a Boxster this last time but previously I had either a Mercedes or... No car at all.

Goofnik said: I agree that it’s really a wash. If I had a 997.2 Carrera GTS, I’d stick with it. I’m coming from a Mazda MX-5 though, so I spent a lot of time driving everything up to $100K USD. The Cayman S won me over but I knew the GTS was coming months before it was leaked by Jalopnik, so I left a deposit back in September 2013 and waited first in line until I got my allocation. Cayman GTS Pros: * Better overall balance, no pendulum rhythm * Easier to push to the limit * Better aural experience (intakes and engine near your head, revised PSE with sound symposers) * Revised PDK is better * Optional X73 SS nearly eliminates all safety understeer compared to PASM * More cargo space * Better fuel efficiency 997.2 Carrera GTS Pros: * Better off-line traction, corner exit speeds, top end and low-end * Higher limit, easier to recover when you overstep the limit * Lighter front end and hydraulics offer classic 911 feel and feedback * Rear seats * Depreciation nearly over, will soon appreciate My second place car? Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Coupe 507 Edition, of all things. Mad car is mad, but I couldn’t see myself driving it forever. The Cayman GTS is a modern Dino 246 GTS, whereas it’ll never be considered beautiful, but will always be considered very handsome and is just a great driver’s car. Edited by Goofnik on Sunday 22 June 19:41 people who say the Cayman is easier to push to the limit, you are along way from the limit still ;-) imo the 911 is the easier car to drive to and over the limit. you need much bigger balls to carry the faster mid engine corner speed than you do in a 911. so there for the 911 has a lower limit.

Isysman said: I've been using my OPC for three years and until the last time I put my car in (a 997 Turbo) I've never had even any Porsche as a courtesy car never mind a 911. I had a Boxster this last time but previously I had either a Mercedes or... No car at all. I should qualify the loan situation - I bought the GTS and had to return it immediately as the approved used car check was poorly carried out. And then had to return it immediately again because the battery failed, hence the loan cars.