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YOUR RESEARCHThe GT3 and RS avoidance thread! - Page 3 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK
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Sore the add on Auto Trader and there site shows a clean history, just goes to show how disconnected the industry is still
The GT3 and RS avoidance thread! - Page 3 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK
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In addition, which I have less certainty off, it had an unknown amount of damage repaired earlier in it's life, ~2015 from memory, the gap in the service history indicates roughly when and given the duration of time spent off the road was not likely trivial.
The GT3 and RS avoidance thread! - Page 3 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK
Repair off the books so it appears as a
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Both repaired off the books so it appears as a clean car."
The GT3 and RS avoidance thread! - Page 3 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK
Repair there are plenty of great cars
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There are plenty of great cars which have been repaired!
The GT3 and RS avoidance thread! - Page 3 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK
Replace bumpers
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Both bumpers were replaced with new items, the rear left wing was repaired, as was the rear left suspension, and the alignment checked.
The GT3 and RS avoidance thread! - Page 3 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK
Repair earlier in it's life, ~2015
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In addition, which I have less certainty off, it had an unknown amount of damage repaired earlier in it's life, ~2015 from memory, the gap in the service history indicates roughly when and given the duration of time spent off the road was not likely trivial.
The GT3 and RS avoidance thread! - Page 3 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK
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There seems like a constant stream of requests for information on GT3's and GT3 RS so I thought it might be a good idea to have a thread highlighting cars which may not be Cat C/D but may require a closer look.
997.1 GT3 (Black) EJ07YSY / EJ07 YSY
Link to PH thread discussing it here
Very useful thread and one which could save someone a lot of money and heartache.
Can I please respectfully remind any posters of the PH rules regarding derrogatory or libelous statements in relation to any organisations having dealt with any of the cars being mentioned. And no I'm not a moderator - just someone who will find this information very useful should I decide to fulfill a dream.
The last thing we want is for the thread to be closed.
Edited by Trev450 on Sunday 19th January 10:00
Trev450 said:
Very useful thread and one which could save someone a lot of money and heartache.
Can I please respectfully remind any posters of the PH rules regarding derrogatory or libelous statements in relation to any organisations having dealt with any of the cars being mentioned. And no I'm not a moderator - just someone who will find this information very useful should I decide to fulfill a dream.
The last thing we want is for the thread to be closed.
Edited by Trev450 on Sunday 19th January 10:00
Completely agree. Just looking to highlight the cars with well known issues. Pictures to back up claims help.
We should also state that just because a GT3 may have had accident damage in the past, it does not mean to say that it may not be a good buy - so long as it has been repaired properly. Unless you're a beardy garage queen cock polisher type
terryb said:
We should also state that just because a GT3 may have had accident damage in the past, it does not mean to say that it may not be a good buy - so long as it has been repaired properly. Unless you're a beardy garage queen cock polisher type
I thought that too - I'd much rather see the word "alert" rather than "avoidance" in the thread title.
thegoose said:
terryb said:
We should also state that just because a GT3 may have had accident damage in the past, it does not mean to say that it may not be a good buy - so long as it has been repaired properly. Unless you're a beardy garage queen cock polisher type
I thought that too - I'd much rather see the word "alert" rather than "avoidance" in the thread title.
Good point. The thread is here to highlight cars which have had accident damage, ensuring potential buyers are aware, allowing them to make an informed decision on whether they're happy to buy a car with 'history' and taking it all into account when deciding on what to pay.
There are plenty of great cars which have been repaired!
If the MODS would like to change the title from 'avoidance' to 'alert' that's fine.
I would also stress to make sure everyone is 110% on the info they are posting, I once sold one of my cars & a very misinformed person suggested to the seller it had been previously crashed causing me a lot of hassle & when questioning the person they simply said "sorry "PAL" I must have got it wrong".
Good thread all the same
V8KSN said:
997.1 GT3 RS Orange EA07 VMC
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Thought EA07VMC had ceramics ?
This features on the RS registry including an interesting postscript from the passenger , lol.
Edit : According the above registry, this car is (without prejudice!) HJ07NKD ? Anyone know of this ?
Edited by grale23 on Wednesday 22 January 10:51
grale23 said:
V8KSN said:
997.1 GT3 RS Orange EA07 VMC
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Thought EA07VMC had ceramics ?
This features on the RS registry including an interesting postscript from the passenger , lol.
Edit : According the above registry, this car is (without prejudice!) HJ07NKD ? Anyone know of this ?
Edited by grale23 on Wednesday 22 January 10:51
This looks like EA07 VMC to me......
BigGameHunter said:
one has an orange cage/steel brakes the other a black cage & PCCB?
Yeah, bit odd ... here is the link to the original images…
http://s336.photobucket.com/user/anjumwaheed/media...
This pic you can see the yellow callipers and the cage looks black…
grale23 said:
Thought EA07VMC had ceramics ?
This features on the RS registry including an interesting postscript from the passenger , lol.
Edit : According the above registry, this car is (without prejudice!)
HJ07NKD
? Anyone know of this ?
Edited by grale23 on Wednesday 22 January 10:51
FOUND IT!
heelntoe said:
One more for the list... seems recent too as was serviced last spring as per the service book.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AVI6HFohq0
That one was on Copart for sale around October last year, was at 7K for ages and I bid on it to get the engine only, eventually sold for around 18K
heelntoe said:
One more for the list... seems recent too as was serviced last spring as per the service book.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AVI6HFohq0
Shame nice looking 997.1 GT3 Comfort with Ceramics in Meteor Grey.
WPOZZZ99Z7S794180 (2.58 on YouTube)
Porsche Centre Cardiff serviced. Could check job 40986 (2.55)
Anyone with info on orange 997.1 RS please get in touch via pm if you would prefer to keep it off the forum, I am basically compiling my own list of orange 997.1 RS to avoid looking at so will be very helpful.
grale23 said:
Well found sir !!
Should be on insurance register then....judging by Police presence .
Insurance categories are applied to vehicles "written off" by the insurer. You could own a GT3 RS worth £90k, crash it, make an insurance claim for £40k and it would not be a category anything (because it wasn't written off). A stolen car is temporarily a category Z car - but otherwise I can't see the significance of your comment regarding the police.
Avoidance??
How many guys here married a virgin? I'm sure a few wives or girlfriends have been banged a few times before we got our hands on them.....................
rash_decision said:
Avoidance??
How many guys here married a virgin? I'm sure a few wives or girlfriends have been banged a few times before we got our hands on them.....................
Maybe, but theres a difference between that and someone who has worked as a pro for 5 years!
mollytherocker said:
Maybe, but theres a difference between that and someone who has worked as a pro for 5 years!
Really!? The only difference with some is that money changes hands, doesn't make it a bad thing! Pmsl.
g7jhp said:
996.2 GT3 (2004) White - Reg No: CN04LPE / VIN: WP0ZZZ99Z4S691433
Thread
on PH.
Edited by g7jhp on Tuesday 18th February 09:00
Why is this car to be avoided? Do you know that it has been in an accident? Or just because it has had a colour change?
jackwood said:
g7jhp said:
996.2 GT3 (2004) White - Reg No: CN04LPE / VIN: WP0ZZZ99Z4S691433
Thread
on PH.
Edited by g7jhp on Tuesday 18th February 09:00
Why is this car to be avoided? Do you know that it has been in an accident? Or just because it has had a colour change?
This thread is highlighting cars which cars may not be Cat C/D but may require a closer look. I suggest you refer to the 5th comment on the linked thread.
nigelonich said:
http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/porsche-911-...
Probably hit some standing water on the entry running the OEM tyres (cups) :-) One can only imagine on how this happened?
g7jhp said:
This thread is highlighting cars which cars may not be Cat C/D but may require a closer look. I suggest you refer to the 5th comment on the linked thread.
Got it. Thanks.
Jack
g7jhp said:
This thread is highlighting cars which cars may not be Cat C/D but may require a closer look. I suggest you refer to the 5th comment on the linked thread.
Got it. Thanks.
Jack
jackwood said:
g7jhp said:
This thread is highlighting cars which cars may not be Cat C/D but may require a closer look. I suggest you refer to the 5th comment on the linked thread.
Got it. Thanks.
Jack
And if a car has had an accident it may still be a good buy if it's properly repaired and the price reflects the history.
We're trying to ensure people are aware of history and can make an informed decision.
ClarkPB said:
Just incase this 991 GT3 makes an appearance at a later date...
http://www.copart.co.uk/c2/individualLot.html?lotI...
This car is quoted as cat b. doesn't that mean it can only be sold for parts? So why include it here?
Cunno said:
This car is quoted as cat b. doesn't that mean it can only be sold for parts? So why include it here?
I can assure you its possible. Not with the same reg or identity though.
Category A: scrap only – Cat A cars should not be allowed back on the road, but their parts can be sold for recycling.
Category B: break for parts – Cat B cars are not allowed back on the road, but there will be some parts that can be removed and sold as spares. Its shell (the main component of the car) must be crushed.
Category C: repairable total loss – Cat C cars are allowed back on the road, as the damage is repairable, although the cost of repair is higher than the value of the car. The car must be subject to a Vehicle Identity Check (VIC).
Category D: repairable significant damage – Cat D cars are also allowed back on the road, because the damage can be repaired. Unlike Cat C, however, the repairs won’t cost more than the value of the car, but it is significant enough for the car to be written off.
nigelonich said:
I have had several Cat D cars and there is nothing to be scared of. Best thing is to buy them damaged and get the repair done under your own supervision an document it with some images.
Currently my 2008 defender is a Cat D which was due to the chassis being damaged wen it was only 6 months old. The value of the damaged car was high but the replacement of a chassis was labour intensive an therefore the value of the repair outweighed the economics combined with the sale value of the salvage.
In summary the defender had a new chassis and very little else and it has been perfect ever since but its a Cat D and considered bad. However, take a rusty old defender with a rotten chassis and replace it with a new one and its not a Cat D and considered good!
However good a Cat D car is it will still be classed as Cat D so have a lower value. You just need to ensure you get a Cat D car at the right value.
All cars should be inspected and bought on condition (whether Cat D or not).
It's also worth noting for anyone looking how many dealers advertise c16 spec cars only for them to be originally c98 Cyprus bound cars that were snatched up by dealers when demand was strong for these cars new. There's at least 3 I've looked at seriously to find out this. It wouldn't be an issue if it was reflected in the price but this is never the case. First warning sign is a none OPC selling the car brand new!
TOENHEEL said:
It's also worth noting for anyone looking how many dealers advertise c16 spec cars only for them to be originally c98 Cyprus bound cars that were snatched up by dealers when demand was strong for these cars new. There's at least 3 I've looked at seriously to find out this. It wouldn't be an issue if it was reflected in the price but this is never the case. First warning sign is a none OPC selling the car brand new!
That's a good point,there was a Speed Yellow mk2 996 GT3 for sale last year and I'm sure it was a Cyprus car.
Spec maybe the same but it's never going to be classed as a 100% UK car. If your buying to keep as a long term investment like me I think it's important.
sleep envy said:
Why?
I would feel more comfortable with money wrapped up in a c16 UK opc delivered car. I'm not saying everyone will feel the same as me but these cars are all about history and having no ambiguity. I couldn't be chewed on having to explain where the car's from come re sale time.
Slippydiff said:
Not sure why this is an issue ? My old 996 GT3 RS was a C98/Cyprus car, the spec is identical to C16. Which begs the question, why would there be any price differential between C16 and C98 cars ?
See TOENHEEL's reply above as it echos my own thoughts
Obviously it doesn't mean it's a bad car in any way shape or form (why would it) but it's a personal thing and for every person that didn't want a non C16 car there'll be 10 people who don't give a hoot.
TOENHEEL said:
I would feel more comfortable with money wrapped up in a c16 UK opc delivered car. I'm not saying everyone will feel the same as me but these cars are all about history and having no ambiguity. I couldn't be chewed on having to explain where the car's from come re sale time.
That's your perogative but I'm not so hung up about it. When they get to a certain value people won't reject a car if it's not got a C16 or C00 code on the inside cover sevice booklet sticker, see 993 RS.
sleep envy said:
That's your perogative but I'm not so hung up about it. When they get to a certain value people won't reject a car if it's not got a C16 or C00 code on the inside cover sevice booklet sticker, see 993 RS.
Yeah but for the time being they're nothing like as expensive or as rare as a 993RS
TOENHEEL said:
I would feel more comfortable with money wrapped up in a c16 UK opc delivered car. I'm not saying everyone will feel the same as me but these cars are all about history and having no ambiguity. I couldn't be chewed on having to explain where the car's from come re sale time.
All Porsches are imports.
Good thread. Particularly interesting to me as I nearly bought that RivBlue 997.1GT3 before buying my RivBlue 997.2GT3, and it had no mention of any crash damage as I recall.
For the record a CAT B can be put back on the road with the same reg and ID. I have first hand experience of doing this with an NC MX5 2 years ago. The car has the V5, has had two MOT's, two lots of road tax, and two years of insurance declared as a CAT B damage repair with the insurer. I guess it's a bit of an underground trade secret that this can be done, but thousands of CAT B cars are legally put back on the road every year as far as I'm aware.
The CAT damaged cars are not the ones you want to worry about as HPI checks are easy, it's the ones that aren't reported to the insurer as they were being driven uninsured, crashed on a trackday or otherwise. That's why this thread is a great idea!
PhilMorrison said:
The CAT damaged cars are not the ones you want to worry about as HPI checks are easy, it's the ones that aren't reported to the insurer as they were being driven uninsured, crashed on a trackday or otherwise. That's why this thread is a great idea!
Agreed but, as previously mentioned, an insurance claim doesn't get recorded as a cat [whatever] unless the car is written off. I know of various cars with £25k insurance claims - not recorded as not written off. There's a common misconception that an insurance claim taints the car with Cat D or whatever - simply not true.
PhilMorrison said:
For the record a CAT B can be put back on the road with the same reg and ID. I have first hand experience of doing this with an NC MX5 2 years ago. The car has the V5, has had two MOT's, two lots of road tax, and two years of insurance declared as a CAT B damage repair with the insurer. I guess it's a bit of an underground trade secret that this can be done, but thousands of CAT B cars are legally put back on the road every year as far as I'm aware.
Correct, I looked at one last week and nearly bought it. I know someone that makes a tidy living from them.
Kettmark said:
He wrights for Total 911 magazine so should know these cars inside out. Maybe he is unaware of the car s history..
Crazy. He was meant to be one of the good guys - I am sure he would have done the necessary inspections to be aware of any damage.
What was the extent of the original damage?
SidewaysSi said:
Crazy. He was meant to be one of the good guys - I am sure he would have done the necessary inspections to be aware of any damage.
What was the extent of the original damage?
Relatively minor - I was trying to buy it - front and rear PU and perhaps a bent rear driver’s side chassis leg. If properly repaired there is absolutely no way you can tell the car has been damaged. Even if you are a specialist...
SidewaysSi said:
Kettmark said:
He wrights for Total 911 magazine so should know these cars inside out. Maybe he is unaware of the car s history..
Crazy. He was meant to be one of the good guys - I am sure he would have done the necessary inspections to be aware of any damage.
What was the extent of the original damage?
Pics here
http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=118405&postda...
Cheburator mk2 said:
SidewaysSi said:
Crazy. He was meant to be one of the good guys - I am sure he would have done the necessary inspections to be aware of any damage.
What was the extent of the original damage?
Relatively minor - I was trying to buy it - front and rear PU and perhaps a bent rear driver’s side chassis leg. If properly repaired there is absolutely no way you can tell the car has been damaged. Even if you are a specialist...
Maybe but he is meant to be one of the best. Looks like there was no structural damage so not so bad I guess.
IanG1 said:
looks like this one has resurfaced again. thought I recognised the plate LX53NRN, quick google brings you to this thread LOL
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
No mention that it’s been damaged in the advert, feel for the poor sod who ends up buying thinking it’s not been crash repaired.
GT4RS said:
No mention that it’s been damaged in the advert, feel for the poor sod who ends up buying thinking it’s not been crash repaired.
Whilst its still on PH car has been removed from his website
So much debate on 911uk about the car and terminology about the meaning of the word superficial. Think the bottom line is if he car was advertised in a way advising of its past then potential buyers can make the necessary checks as they see fit. But by not disclosing its past fires the forum flames and keeps the story burning. Surely if sold as repaired and priced accordingly then the story ends?
The car has now disappeared off PB,s website stock list. So guessing it was being sold as SOR, the owner is really having a good go to punt it on, can’t be many independents that not had it in the last couple of years?
The damage may have been “superficial”. However the car ended up with Copart. So far as I know they only deal with write-offs usually sent to them on behalf of insurance companies.
I base this on my experience with a Land Rover which I owned and was written off by Aviva. I had to send all my paperwork to Copart so that the insurance payout could be calculated.
BrotherMouzone said:
At least now it’s £65k not £72-74k previously.
Yes, I don't claim to 'know prices' like some do, but one in the £70k bracket did not seem correct, no matter how good the repair might have been.
Edited by chris.mod on Saturday 23 March 15:51
The issue is not in and of the extent of the damage, or the efficacy of repair, but rather it rests on the fact that
if
someone bought the car, without knowledge of the fact, it would be grossly unfair. Not only might it affect their enjoyment of the car, it obviously also has ramifications if/when they try to sell it too.
BrotherMouzone said:
My post has been removed by mods and as have some of the posts in the last few days.
MeToo
Pics of damage and raised the point the ad didn't mention it.
We try to protect other PH'ers from buying "known" crashed cars and are treated like criminals.
gottans said:
A bit of publically available info from vcheck.uk...
Sore the add on Auto Trader and there site shows a clean history, just goes to show how disconnected the industry is still
gottans said:
A bit of publically available info from vcheck.uk...
Sore the add on Auto Trader and there site shows a clean history, just goes to show how disconnected the industry is still
BrotherMouzone said:
My post has been removed by mods and as have some of the posts in the last few days.
Why are posts removed from this thread? Very sad to see this happening.
Buffalo Girls said:
BrotherMouzone said:
My post has been removed by mods and as have some of the posts in the last few days.
Why are posts removed from this thread? Very sad to see this happening.
I'm guessing it was the post from the dealer and they got a bit windy about it. PH tends to be run for advertisers (i.e. dealers) rather than users in that regard and, TBF, the dealer may well have genuinely made a mistake regarding this car, given it's insurance history
is
slightly opaque.
The 911uk forum is a far better source for 'avoid' information WRT dealers. Whereas Pistoneads, for various reasons, will take threads down if a dealer squeals. I am reminded of this place:
http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=126490&sid=fa...
Advert has added text re damage/repairs and new price
"The car did sustain damage on track in 2016. This was to the rear left quarter and front bumper. Both bumpers were replaced with new items, the rear left wing was repaired, as was the rear left suspension, and the alignment checked. We are confident that the car has been properly repaired, and it is HPI clear. We are happy for it to be independently inspected if you have any concerns. Because of this history, we are pricing the Porsche lower than other similar 996 GT3 Clubsports."
£56,995
Shouldn't be this hard to get such pertinent facts included in an advert, the market for GT3's is quite small so it was bound to come out.
Doubt it has done the dealers reputation much good.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 27th March 23:44
Right and proper description.
I'm not for a moment suggesting the car is/was a lemon - I don't necessarily think anyone here was - but for someone to have bought it
without
that relevant knowledge would have been wrong and unfair.
It would be great to see the car back out on track, where it most definitely belongs.
So amidst the posts being taken down/dealer squealing/forum rules, this thread has successfully got the advert amended to get the car described as it should have been in the first place. Good to hear and hopefully it saved an unsuspecting buyer. As others have said though, a car like that needs a ppi and it should have shown up on that (or maybe not as cheburator has mentioned) but still, those are a few hundered pounds that one might not have instructed if car was as described.
Maybe any car that has ever ended been in the hands of copart needs to appear on hpi checks?
Edited by PS2018 on Thursday 28th March 11:01
Not sure why posts on this thread are being removed?
The thread was to highlight cars which had clearly been damaged and subsequently repaired so any future buyers could find details and then make an informed decision on if they wanted to buy and what the true value was.
Threads being removed just help those wanting to hide historic damage, rather than PHers.
Porsche 997.1 GT3
Cobalt Blue
Reg: GN57 EFR
Damage Info: (Shanksy87)
"It's had a fairly sizeable front end smash, resulting in both air bags being deployed and the chassis was supposed to have been bent. Any inspection should pick up on the new dash, steering wheel, windscreen, bumper and various bits of front suspension. In addition, which I have less certainty off, it had an unknown amount of damage repaired earlier in it's life, ~2015 from memory, the gap in the service history indicates roughly when and given the duration of time spent off the road was not likely trivial. Both repaired off the books so it appears as a clean car."
Link to info:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
This is an important thread , I’d be devastated buying a very expensive 996GT3 1 owner low mileage only to learn it had been crashed/ resprayed !
Beware
Deansfield said:
This is an important thread , I’d be devastated buying a very expensive 996GT3 1 owner low mileage only to learn it had been crashed/ resprayed !
Beware
What car are you referring to?
Does anyone have any information on this car -
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/235137971157?hash=item3...
I can see it's a cat S but wondering if anyone knows the specifics of the damage? It's a car that used to be owned by Supercardriver.
Babw said:
Does anyone have any information on this car -
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/235137971157?hash=item3...
I can see it's a cat S but wondering if anyone knows the specifics of the damage? It's a car that used to be owned by Supercardriver.
Correct, it’s been smashed up and repaired.
I remember seeing it on one of the big trade auction sites for a lot less. Whoever owns it been trying to sell
it on and off for over a year.
I remember seeing end of last year for 50k
Andyoz said:
Just a bit and it's had multiple crashes too....here's photos of its two greatest hits!
Figured this was the more appropriate thread for this post. Just failed to sell on Collecting Cars
Pflanzgarten said:
Figured this was the more appropriate thread for this post. Just failed to sell on Collecting Cars
I downloaded that picture of it crashed on track from a PH Porsche forum thread and sent it to AndyOz, so it is a reasonably well known car on PH’s Porsche forum (or certainly used to be)
Slippydiff said:
Pflanzgarten said:
Figured this was the more appropriate thread for this post. Just failed to sell on Collecting Cars
I downloaded that picture of it crashed on track from a PH Porsche forum thread and sent it to AndyOz, so it is a reasonably well known car on PH’s Porsche forum (or certainly used to be)
I can imagine so.
I'm looking at 996 GT3s at the moment and although the oft repeated "no virgins..." saying still rings true it's amazing how people can pass off some paint as "a mere scratch" in sales particulars.
Rich__A said:
Hi does anyone know of any history or of accident damage on the 996 gt3 reg GK04KUF?
Would a Car Vertical check help? May have images if there was an insurance claim.
Rich__A said:
Hi does anyone know of any history or of accident damage on the 996 gt3 reg GK04KUF?
you could contact these to see if they have any info on file about it
https://www.iconicauctioneers.com/2004-porsche-gt3...
Following Chris Harris’ revelations yesterday, he t
tted the famous U.K. press car 997.1 RS into an R8 on track causing considerable damage. Quite the revelation for an owner who may have been unaware…
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.