Help Me ID this Engine Squeal - SOLVED

Drove to work this morning, and the car was running normally. When I got to work, I noticed a noise coming from the engine. I shot this video, then shut off the engine. It was hard to ID where the noise was coming from, but sounded like the back of the engine, in the area of the belt. Then, I went to re-start the car (briefly) and it wouldn't start. It cranked weakly, like a bad battery. Tried again, and it (barely) started. While running, the gage showed about 14 amps. 1999 996 C2 Cab. Help! SEE UPDATE POST BELOW

Alternator going bad? When you get home, pull the serp belt off and spin the alternator, water pump, ac compressor and see if anything is really hard to turn or makes a noise.

Sounds like the alternator to me as well, or it might be one of the idler/tensioner pulleys

Do you think there is a risk of damaging anything further by driving it home? I'd love to get it back to my garage. Might have to jump start it. It's a 20-minute drive.

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Flat bed the car to where it needs to go. If the belt fails the water pump stops and the engine can suffer from overheating. If the water pump is the source of the noise a failed water pump can come apart and damage the engine. Flat bed the car. Sincerely, Macster.

UPDATE: I borrowed an automotive stethoscope and poked around a bit. Here's what I found: At the Alternator and the Power Steering Pump, the squeal/rattle is very loud through the stethoscope. This is also true at the idler pulley between them. At the Water Pump, all is quiet. Couldn't get very good access to the crankshaft pulley, but on the motor housing nearby, all is basically quiet. It's actually a bit louder at the power steering pump, but they are close together and share some mounting, so it's difficult to tell. Now I'm considering driving it home so I can replace the alternator and/or power steering pump myself. Any thoughts?

One suggestion often given is to remove the serpentine accessory belt. First mark the routing of the belt before removal (draw a diagram so you don't mess it up when you reinstall it). With a cold engine and no serpentine belt, run the car for 15-30 seconds, just long enough to id the noise. If the noise is gone, certainly the noise is coming from a pulley/bearing/accessory. Rotate the various accessory pulleys by hand and check for unusual noises & play. +1 to Macster's comment about H20 pump being much more serious a matter than the rest of the accessories, and a flat bed trip is cheap insurance if it is something more serious.

If its the PS pulley, make sure you look at a lot of diagrams before you take it apart. It has to come out through the back and...possible have some spare parts ready.

Took off the airbox to get a better look. What's wrong with this picture???

"Houston, I think we have a problem"

So then, I popped off the serpentine belt, and the idler pulley fell off in my hand(see pic). The bolt holding this idler has sheared off (see pic), but the pulley remained in place, trapped by the belt and the tensioner pulley. Looks like an easy fix, once I extract the broken bolt. So happy to find this is an easy problem to deal with As a side note, I continue to find these cars to be reliable and surprisingly easy to work on. Even with a broken pulley, the car continued to run. Removing the airbox is one bolt and a clamp. The tensioner pulley has a nice big nut to get a wrench on, and plenty of room to swing the wrench. Releaving tension and removing the belt takes seconds. Still loving this car!

That one is going to be tough to remove. RESIST the temptation to buy a cheap broken bolt extractor tool. REPEAT, don't wedge a cheap bolt extractor in there! Spend some time and get some advise on how to get that stud out of there. You might consider replacing the belt and idler pulley, and at minimum you'll need to order a new #14 bolt to replace the broken one (depending on engine serial number and model year): http://www.autoatlanta.com/porsche-p...-05/101-10.php

ugghh that's not going to be fun...

Try to turn the bolt with some small flathead screwdriver. Some times these are actually quite loose...

Frisbee - before you congatulate yourself, be very gratetful and thank your lucky stars that its not on a Boxster where this bolt is only accessible through the rear porthole !! Last year, the same bolt snapped on me when I was torquing it up after I installed a new pulley. There is no room to get a drill in there (even a side mount drill) so I had no way of getting an extractor / easy out in the space available. And the bolts are Loctited in the case on assembly. My only saving grace was the the bolt had sheared just proud of the casing, so after heating up the bolt with a torch to break the Loctite, I managed to get a needle nose punch and painfully tap it round untill I could get a lockable clamp wrench on the remains and unscrew it. It took me about 3 hours and lots of knuckle skin - but the alternative would have been to remove the engine to get to the bolt. I hope you have an easier time than me seeing that your bolt has snapped well down the threaded hole. Best of luck.....

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What are the recommendations for an extraction method, assuming I can't get it out with a screwdriver? My plan was this: 1. PB Blaster penetrant/lubricatant soak for a few days 2. Center punch and drill the bolt (right angle drill with a new bit) 3. Use a helical style "easy-out" bolt extractor. 4. Ease the broken bolt right out of there Any other recommendations or tips? Should I use a torch to heat the bolt to break any Loctite? Is a different style bolt extractor recommended? I wasn't thinking this was going to be a big deal, but I don't do this sort of job every day. Now I'm starting to worry... p.s. ordering a new bolt, idler pulley, and belt today.

I do not remember how the subject came up but I was talking to some Porsche techs the other day about removing bolts snapped off -- oh it was regarding having to break off the head of a wheel stud that the owner had lost the adapter to and how to get the remaining wheel stud out of the hole -- and I was told the techs prefer to use left-handed drill bits if one can't simply grasp the broken bolt with pliers if any portion sticks out of the hole or needle nose pliers of there's something to grasp. Oftentimes during the drilling the bolt will back out on its own as it heats up from the drilling and the force and vibration work to loosen the bolt in the hole. Sincerely, Macster.

Easy outs should be called hard outs. Especially if the bolt is hardened and especially if you buy or use a cheap one! Next thing that happens when the easy out fails is you have an even harder material embedded in the stud. Not saying I haven't used easy out's before with success, but... I've had less luck with them than success. PB Blaster is good. You can try the left handed drill bit (use a stop) and the second good idea was a flat bladed screwdriver. If the stud is flat topped, using a dremel you can use a tungsten carbide bit on slow speed and carve a notch for the screwdriver. In fact, that same dremel bit will eventually eat through the entire bolt. Once you're done drilling, if the threads are damaged likely you would need to helicoil or timesert it afterwards. Patience and use slow speed on any drill bit you use. High speed will add heat which can be good or bad (more below). Remember this is the engine case so if you mess up it is a big problem. If you plan to try and turn the stud, you need to get as much purchase on it as possible. It doesn't look like you can weld something on top to turn it. I would try without heat first unless you need it. Heat can be a double edged sword. You can anneal it or harden it. Which one you use depends on the extraction method you want to use (drill through or turn respectively). If you anneal when you really need to harden it's going to make it even harder to remove.

Loctite will need only 150C (302F) to break loose. So heatgun might do the trick... Just remember, one hotspot in othervwise cold enginecase can lead to cracks. So be careful and take your time

Macster is dead on with the left-hand drill bit suggestion, you can get these at industrial supply houses and should be the first item to get if you plan to drill, get a few different sizes so you can be certain to really center the initial hole. You may even find that the friction heat generated from drilling may loosen the LockTite sufficiently that the broken stud may just come out by itself when you progressively go up in size of drill bits. I've used the left hand drill bit to take out small set screwes on control ***** on an expensive piece of avionics, I was lucky since the recess of the set screw helped a great deal to center the drilling process!

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I agree it's a great idea. Thanks Macster. Left-hand drill bits ordered (and recieved already) from Mcmaster-carr. Waiting on the new pulley, bolt, and belt to arrive from Suncoast. I've also got a huge assortment of tiny grinders, carbide end mills, and punches to make sure I create a good spot to start my drilling. Wish me luck on my weekend project.

Good luck, let us know how it goes !!

If you have access to a lathe make a guide bushing to slide into the recess for one of the lefthanded drill bits to keep it centered.

Is there enough room there with the frame and such to get a hand drill in there? I can see fitting a dremel no problem... Here are the dremel bits I've always used for these situations (mind you a LH bit will not only drill through but can also turn out the stud whereas a dremel bit will just cut through the bolt): http://www.dremel.com/en-us/Accessor....aspx?catid=72 In particular the 9909 to get it started and the 9910 to finish off the work. (remember low speed). IIRC that bolt is class 10.9, which means it is harder than standard grade.

Well, I'd rather be lucky than good... After assembling all manner of implements (of destruction)... I was able to remove the offending broken bolt using only PB Blaster and a stubby flathead screwdriver. I soaked it a few days and it came right out. Thanks for the suggestion Speed RII! Too bad my new pulley won't be here until Monday!

Great to hear that you had a bit of luck with the problem - it must have been a big relief when the broken piece came out!! Sounds like the bolt was backing out before the belt tension snapped it off - unlike mine which broke off while I was tightening it up......

You were so lucky! i'm pleased to hear of a successful outcome. That's a tough area to work in. While in there, take a look at all of the come along wheels (to include the tensioner one) and see if their wear surfaces are smooth and not ridged from an alignment issue.

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Glad to hear of your success, now where are those parts?

Parts installed, car running nicely But WOW, that new belt was a royal PITA to install! I had the tensioner pulley fully retracted, and it STILL seemed like the belt was 1/2" too short. I finally got it, but only after 45 minutes of playing with it. I ended up using one of those one-hand-bar-clamp/spreader to stretch the belt. Also, I was surprised at how low the torque spec is on the idler pulley bolt. 17 ft-lbs is nothing. I'm guessing someone overtorqued the thing in the past. Thanks all for the tips.

Glad it was all sorted out, very happy with how easy it came out, 'cause it certainly looked like a bear at first glance..

Are you saying the serpentine belt was hard to install, was it the right one? When I did my replacement, it was very easy to do. Glad your Porsche is up and running again.

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Yeah, the serpentine belt (synchrous belt?) was very difficult to install. I double-checked the part number printed on the belt. It was a Porsche factory part, 996-102-151-66 from Suncoast in Florida. I got it on there, but boy did it put up a fight. Seemed just a tiny bit too short.

Frisbee, Awesome! I am glad the broken bolt came out so easily. Probably a 1 in 20 chance wt would come out that easy. You should have played the lottery that day! About the serpentine belt.... now where did I put that "belt stretcher?"

Hi All Need help with my 2000 996 pulley noise.. I have attached 2 videos, one with the drive belt off and one with engine running. You Tube https://youtu.be/8v6BZHALjr8

Reattach the belt. Run the engine. Use a mechanics stethoscope, or a long screwdriver and put it next to your ear. Then touch a point nearby each pulley. From the looks of the video (second one) it seems almost every pulley you spun had some play or binding. I think the alternator sounds the worst.

Thanks.... I order a mechanics stethoscope today should be here tomorrow. The lower idle pulley sound the worst. Is the A/C pulley wheel supposed to be that loose?

You could also try the cheap stethoscope method: Get a LONG screwdriver. Grasp the handle very firmly, with your thumb protruding. With the engine running, CAREFULLY place the tip of the screwdriver on a stationary surface very close to the offending bearing (i.e. the alternator). Now, stick your thumb in your ear. The sound conducts right up the screwdriver. and can help pinpoint bearing issues.