porsche 996 turbo vs 996 c4s

Bit of a stupid question if i'm going to be honest but i'll ask anyway. For a while i've been considering which of these two cars to have. Leaning more towards the turbo. Need some confirmation from other people. Is the turbo really that much of a difference to the c4s? Because according to Jeremy Clarkson the c4s is a "fake". Any replies appreciated!

In the sense that the 4S is a Turbo without the engine, yes, it's a "fake" turbo. However, they are different cars despite their outward similarities. Ultimately, only you can decide what suits you. BTW, anyone who takes guidance from JC on anything (especially Porsches) should be taking such guidance with a (very) large pinch of salt!

The only 911 I had ever driven my Dad's C4S up until Monday of this week, and originally thought that it would be enough for me, and was all set to buy one. Then had a niggling feeling that if I did buy one, I'd want a Turbo after a month or two. So in the last five days I've driven three 996 Turbos, two at indies and one OPC. And bought this one yesterday TBH it was a few grand more than similar age / spec cars at the independent garages, but it is one owner, done 12k, and looks, drives and smells like new! And has the OPC warranty etc. My advice? Get a turbo

My standard 996 C4 S comes with firmer suspension and lager disc brakes, this model is superb at cornering at higher speeds, it was glued to the roads in Germany, with 171mph showing on the Sat nav. on the Leipzig ring road on a Sunday morning last Sept. Petrol consumption averages around 29 miles per gall. in the UK. My previous car a 996 C2 3.3 gave a more comfortable ride on B roads, but did about 4 miles less per gal. The 997 has the same size discs and calipers as the 3.6 C4S.!!!

There really is no choice is there? When I was looking, they were virtually the same price-so why the hell would you buy a C4S. Lovely car and dont flame me, but who wouldnt want the extra wellie?

That does look cool - ive currently got an E46 M3 - the C4S is actually slower than the M3 - I just know if I get a C4S I will wish after few weeks id got the turbo - a few weeks after having my M3 the speed and accelaration become just normal - its amazing how soon you get used to things isnt it - are there any real downsides to the turbo compared to the C4S

Unless you are a trackday god, if you intend to track it, the 4S will be more friendly in that environment. On the road, the Turbo is a thrill a second

Have you seen the top gear clip explaining the difference between turbo and C4S using women with different sized breasts - its on you tube - now thats funny

Post the link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZJqdLf3q4U <-----------funny!!

[ ] very good.. Back on topic... unlike what they said in the video the Turbo does have a different engine to the C4S, it has the GT1 lump which isn't as prone to RMS failure... other than that its your call. Service pattern for the plugs are different and possibly the key question.. Insurance costs may be different garyw

got a quote for the insurance on a turbo and its not too bad really

just go and try a new 997TTand you will never need to ask this auestion again(IMHO)[ ][ ] especially when you press the sport button[ ]

Well I went on a track day with some fellow Porsche owning mates from work. Amongst us was a 996 x51 turbo and a 996c4 (not a c4S but same performance) and I was absolutely staggared at the sheer out and out performance of the turbo. I could keep on the coat tails of the C4 at will and never felt it was massively quicker than my car (which is modified by the way), however the way the 996 turbo left us standing at will was astonishing. It is not just in a different league in terms of performance, it is a good two or three leagues above. At any speed the turbo could simply leave us for dead as if we were stationary. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind which one i'd go for. And talking to its owner I'm amazed at how 'cheap' the car is to run. Servicing is definately affordable especially when you consider the service interval, insurance is not that bad - I was paying only £200 less for my 944T before I moved over to a modern classics 2nd car policy.

Both great cars, when brand new the C4S did offer awesome value compared to the Turbo, which is why it was so popular & probably the more sensible choice, residuals have also been better than the Turbos. BUT in the used market prices are much closer & if you can afford the extra for a Turbo it will justify its premium for the fabulous grunt & extra toys that come as standard, used it gets my vote over the C4S! If you find an X-50 it is pretty much as fast as the 997TT for nearly half the price!

imho had to be the turbo. The running costs aren't that different - tyres, brakes, warranty are all the same only major difference is the expensive spark plug job (only once every 4 years though, probably) and possibly petrol consumption but unless your doing lots of miles wouldn't let it bother you. Insurance wasn't bad for me either, infact 6 month newer turbo was £40 cheaper than my c2 for some reason?? Regards x50 i had a shot of one and never thought there was that much a difference in it, would have liked but wasn't willing to pay much more for it, but insurance for an x50 was nearly double so worth remembering too[ ] I placed more importance on nice colour inside and out in original well looked after condition, but this proved a lot harder to find than i thought for a car that cost nearly £100k originall[:-] My advice is to drive a few to see what a good one should feel like and be patient as the right one will come up. ps if your still thinking about a c4s seriously, don't test drive a turbo[ ]

IMO, C4S looks better- full width rear reflector, no rear airvents. C4S sounds better- no PSE for Turbo. Most of the time, on the road, the C4S's performance is more than adequate. Like for like, C4S is cheaper to buy, run and insure. Any rational person if cost was not in the equation would probably have the Turbo, but try finding a decent one, or one at all for under £40k which will buy you a lovely 4S. If you really want find you want the extra poke, then upgrade with a Evo MS supercharger, 470 hp!

i have seen loads of 996 TT`s out there at prices very near 4s money-some great bargains[ ]and great fun

but anyone person with a budget in mind who has just bought a C4S because its cheap would have just spent alot of money on an Evo MS supercharger. If you had put this money on top of your original budget then surely you may aswell have bought the turbo

and its value must surely hold up better being the TT[ ]

The TT has plummeted in value faster than the C4S - what's to say it won't continue at a faster rate? I'm waiting for it to get to mid 30's for a good one - shouldn't be too long now! [ ] [ ] If depreciation is your main consideration, go for a GT3 Mk1 - they will always be rarer and more sought after than the TT. A Comfort spec one wouldn't be much more difficult to live with than a TT either. All IMHO, or course.

surely if the tt's plumetted more than that means it is closer to the bottom of its curve? For example 01 car 95k new now worth estimate of £38k = 40% of its original value which is pretty good for a 6 year old car think. It can't continue at a faster rate or they'd end up giving them away![ ]

It was a very tongue-in-cheek comment Scott - plummetting was too strong a word, and you are correct that 40% is a good residual value for a 6 year old car. I appreciate that it is all relative, but if I was the original purchaser I would still be smarting at losing £10000 a year in depreciation. That's just me though, and if I could afford to spend £100000 on a new one, I could probably wouldn't be too worried about the depreciation. Whatever happens, C4Ss and TTs are going to continue to depreciate. I personally don't think that the rate of depreciation should influence your choice between the two. At the current values, the difference will be marginal, so buy what you feel you want. If depreciation is the primary influence on your purchase, buy something with rarity value, which neither the C4S or TT have. Me, I'm still looking forward to TTs reaching a level where my heart can convince my head that it is time to take the plunge [ ] [ ].

Every time the C4s vs turbo debate appears the majority say go for the tt, and I fully concur. So why are C4s prices so high, especially as 997 prices are in the mid 40's/GT3s are in the mid 40s and turbos are in the early 40s now.? Why do people even consider them apart from just for the looks? Spend 5k less and buy a facelift C4/C2 (faster/lighter), or spend slightly more money and buy a turbo with a better engine, and tuneable to the-sky's-the-limit. The running costs are also pretty much the same as they have the same running gear. The turbo/C4s minor service is the same price. The major service is almost double for the tt but that includes spark plugs which needs to be be done on the C4s every 48k or 4 years. All the service parts are the same, and I've been quoted the exact same insurance premium on my Carrera as an 03 turbo and an 03 MKII GT3. This does not take into account what I expect to be less depreciation on the tt and better reliability (GT1 based engine) IMO the market is pricing in a ~5k premium for those looks! Rant over. I will now step away from the keyboard.

didnt mean to shatter your hopes for an early seat in a TT richard[ ] some day soon...[ ]

I suppose- my point is this- I use my C4S most days, clocking up nearly 2k miles a month. I can think of no occasions when I've felt the 4S is slow, and the extra fuel economy means I can get further without filling up (so perversely actually making a long journey faster in the real world!). However, if one day I have a change of work circumstances and feel that the extra poke would be fun, then I can get it supercharged. As said above, I prefer the looks of the 4S, and the noise (which are permanent benefits, as opposed to enjoying the Turbo's extra grunt which is at best temporary and probably illegal!) With regard to the value, the wide body 993s continue to command a premium vs the standard cars, I see no reason why the 996 won't be the same. EVO magazine voted the C4S the best 911 currently on sale (inc the turbo, but pre mk 2 GT3) at the time. They are much more than simply a "Turbo without a turbo", maybe the set-up, dunno, but they just seem beautifully resolved for real-world fast road use. Sometimes, less is more.

Yes, I must say that having had turbo's on my last few cars (quattro, celica t4, imprezza and fiat coupe), I really like the smooth pick up of my normally aspirated 996 C2, compared to the .. nothing, nothing, nothing, whoaa-here-we-go turbo experience.. So, on reflection, having suggested the turbo to this guy a week or so again, perhaps Richard and I should tell everyone from now on to buy a C4S instead of a TT, that way, the C4S prices will stay high, TT prices will really plummet and Richard and I will be able to buy a nice 01 model in 2 year's time for sub 30K ...

Sounds like a plan to me! We just need Rodney to keep quiet too! [ ]

Rodney's made exactly 997 posts! Maybe that's a sign ??

good to see you like your car[ ] still cant see the 996 ever holding on to value like 993 tho-just not as beautifully zuffenhausen(imho)

a cunning plan baldrick[ ]

Richard, I am trying! I held back for 1.5 whole pages on this thread before I piped up![8D] Now a well timed £5 in my 'turbo depreciation shocker' account would keep me off these threads for a good while![ ]

I'm sure you're right, last of the air cooled and everything... I did agonise for a while before selling my peachy 993 Targa for that reason. In a way though, the fact that the 996 is not a Porsche 'classic' (mind you, what modern Porsche ever is) means that it can be used an enjoyed safe in the knowledge that it's shedding £ no matter how few miles you keep on it!

as you say-do what they are meant for-drive em[ ]

I suppose that this is also true but TBH I probably wont be using the porsche for very many long commutes for work etc. In fact i wont be the one driving it to work at all. My wife will be ([ ]) as it is not practical enough for my work. More of a toy for the weekend really. With this is mind I am now convinced by many people on this forum that the turbo will be the better choice.

plus your wife will have a permagrin[ ] no rude comments

Found this post very usefull...as i was thinking CS4 or the Turbo

Bought C4S Cab last Sept, 1st Porsche, love it, already drive too fast (ahem, when appropriate), can't imagine what level of self control I'd leave on the roadside if I was to get a tt. Can't even bring myself to go and test one just in case. It's my daily ride, still has the look back factor for me. Speed isn't everything, it's the size of the grin from within. All that said, life's short, if it feels right do it, no matter what anyone else thinks. And in the profound words of the No Fear crew, 'It's not the speed that kills, it's the sudden stop at the end!'

For me it's not speed thats the buzz it's accellaration and for accellaration you cannot beat a turbo charged car. I've been in normally aspirated cars that are faster than my 944 turbo but i'm always left cold and dissapointed afterwards as they simply don't feel as fast or as exhilirating - you don't get that kick up the backside that you do with a turbo. I fear I might get bored of an N/A car quickly as I get used to the performance and will then start regretting not going the turbo route. Had a good scour round the internet earlier today and was tripping up over the number of sub £40k 996 turbo's, the vast majority around 50k miles with full Porsche dealer service histories, all looked nice and clean from the photo's with nothing suspicious so definately not tatty dogs of cars. I can feel the temptation welling within.

Mm, very interesting,, All I can speak is from experience,, Ran a 964 3.6T,, excellent drivers car,had for over 2 years,, but was using less and less, needed a more everyday use car ,, Replaced with a C4S, good car,more practical,, BUT, just did not do it for me, missed the extra performance and ultimate driving pleasure !!, so sold it after only 3/4 months, and got the TT, now very happy, In my view, no contest, even if it did not have the X50 kit

I once bought a 320i Bmw....and kicked myself for the 2 months of ownership and then bought a M3...though this was many years ago..now own a M5... but selling to get a 911 Turbo...I have decided...

Yeah think this is the better option i think i may go for the turbo In fact you know what i'll definitely go for it Thanks for replies been helpful [ ]

Good that makes the two of us....Just hope my M5 sale's soon.....[ ]

I don't think there has been one thread where the C4s vs turbo debate has raged, and the OP has ended up wanting a C4s! But the market is still pricing a good premium for C4s cars.[:-] Therefore, all I can assume from this, is that either the C4s (gorgeous though it is) strongly appeals to people who are either misinformed about the turbo's running costs, and/or are buying on looks. Which surprises me, because at 40k+ you would expect people to do a lot of research on the car they want to buy, and would love to go the extra step and get a turbo - with it's legendary supercar status. But then you also get a good premium for the 993 C2s and that doesn't even have the running gear of the C4s...and has been slated for having a bad ride compared to the narrow bodied models. So what do I know?[ ] Oh well, I better shut up before Richard et al start sending the boys round with mallets to shut me up! [8D] (And that's my 1000th post..who would have guessed it would have been on this kind of thread! lol)

lol.. well the insurance on a TT is cheaper for me then what i am paying on my M5....so thats a + point i guess...

You've started me soul-searching now... however, I stand by my decision and I consider myself to be a very informed buyer. I looked at Turbos when I bought mine in feb this year, and I would have had to spend more money to get an earlier higher miles Turbo than my C4S. Not a lot more in % terms, but £5,000 is a lot of extra hard-earned, and can pay for a lot of holidays, school fees etc! I did by the C4S because of its looks- I loved my 993, and the rear reflector and 'big hips' reminds me of it in some way. I love the purity of the n/a grunt, i.e. press the accelerator and go, rather than waiting for the turbo to spool up. I love the fact that I can enjoy most of the performance without ending up in jail.

On Autotrader around the £40k mark, you are looking at a 2000-2001 Turbo, compared with a 2002-2003 C4S. I even saw a nice looking 2004 C4S with 36000 miles and plenty of toys for £43k. (Well I've got to do something to stop all the good TTs being snapped up before they reach my price bracket!) [ ] [ ] I'll confess that I have never been in a 996TT, so I have a couple of questions for TT owners. Does the turbo take a while to spool up? I thought that was the whole point of twin turbos - to reduce the lag. What's it like in the real world of cross-town traffic? I shouldn't be asking these questions really. [8|] [8|]

Not being a turbo owner....these links explain all.. though the 996 as i understand spools up at 2000rpm, where as the 997 it very different and Boost is always there.... 997: Top Gear http://youtube.com/watch?v=maFaWixdJGM Fifth Gear 996 Turbo (volumn is loud) http://youtube.com/watch?v=as32y0eOccg I used to own a Subaru, and this use to spool up at 2800rpm and die out at near 6000rpm...i then changed the turbo for a bigger one, and it spooled up at 3200rpm...and just did not run out of puff.... (just as a example) Of this car had two Turbo's the Lag is minimised, as the first turbo will work at a lower rev range..

FWIW I was at the lights behind a 996 turbo a year or so ago. He dropped his windows when he saw me and I knew he wanted to bit of fun. As the lights turned green he began to absolutely and comprehensively leave me for dust in less than 100 metres. It was so embarrassing! The turbo cannot be considered in a different league to the Carrera, it is on a different planet![8D] Having been in a turbo 'S' I can vouch for the insane acceleration available, and how quicky the road just runs out, and the needle flys to 100mph in so very little time! There was significant lag though (but the 'S' does use the bigger K24s) [ ]

Won't make any comments Rod about you being in a tip trying it on with a turbo - oops just did. [8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D]

Then I won't make any comments about you being the only person to manage to drive straight down a skid pan![8D][ ][ ][ ][ ]

I've had turbo cars before (Audi S2, Impreza WRX) so I'm used to the characteristics of a single turbo engine. I also appreciate that the variable vane turbocharger used on the 997 virtually eliminates any lag. I guess what I really want to know is what the 996TT is like to drive in town traffic. Can you just pootle along? When you want to go for that gap, do you have to think about it? I'm thinking about a tiptronic, by the way. I suppose the only answer would be to go and drive one, but I daren't do that yet. [ ][ ] Maybe I need to read up a bit more, and just dream about it for a while longer.

If your old enough to be thinking about a Tip, then you can be sure the car has quicker reactions than you do!!!!

Meeowww !

Sad thing is that I AM that old - I'm on my second tip already. I would still prefer a manual if it was a weekend car, but I love the tip for (my type of) every day use - but PLEASE let's not turn this into another manual vs. tip thread! [ ] [ ]

There is a small amount of lag, but as you say two smaller units working together reduce this to very low levels, although you do feel it more on the X-50 cars due to the larger Turbos! Lag is only really evident at low revs (& you learn to drive around any slight delay), from 3k upwards it is pretty instant. Mid-range in gear grunt is awesome (above 2.5-3k), but you can get a slightly agrovating soft throttle response when changing gear if the boost drops off! Flat out the car doesn't so much accelerate as "lunge" from one point to another, 2nd gear is the one..... it's fairground stuff coming out of a corner foot flat to the floor 4WD & 030 suspension containing the g-forces as the smile spreads across your face[ ]!

Trying to decide this is like trying to decide between a BMW 335i and an M3 (i think) [8|] Not that i have any experience in making this sort of decision [ ]

Thanks Grant. Sounds very much like the 993TT fairground ride. Just need the kids to close their accounts at the Bank of Mum and Dad. Shouldn't be too long now hopefully.

Ok, where to start, my TT with the X50 kit, round town, is a total pussy cat, even the wife can/could drive it !! If you are not in the mood ! (rarely) just leave in 6th, and let the torque do the job, Does the turbos take time to get going ?, very little, and compared to my old 964 3.6, which had a blower the size of a dustbin, the power is virtually simultaneous,(and nearly idiot-proof , unlike the 964 !! [ ] ) certainly has more instant available go!! than the previous C4S did in the same gear, i.e. if caught out in the wrong one, and that hole appears !![ ]

Didn't the Times do an article once estimating how much it costs to bring young-un's up into their teens, I seem to remember it was something like £100k each (of course this is the times we are talking about!!)! So come 18 you can call the loan in & have a fleet of TT's![ ]

All this talk of turbo lag is a bit of a red herring and in my view is not a valid reason for choosing not to by the 996TT. On my 944T the turbo kicks in from about 2500 to 3krpm so i'd imagine that 20yrs of turbo and ECU technological advancement has greatly improved upon this, and although you do have to think ahead, you soon adjust your driving style so you are very rarely caught off-boost and it very quickly becomes second nature. I'd imagine a 996TT's lag is negligable and a 997TT's is zero. I've read this quote somewhere (can't remember) and agree: Normally asprated cars just have infinate lag!

Not far off in our case - private school for both and 4 years at university for one (2 years at college for the other) and £0 student loans. I could have bought a CGT by now!! Both have got jobs now (huge sigh of relief), so I can start saving!

lol all of your comments have paid off because today i went to a ferrari garage and bought my 996TT. Check it out here <------- my fourth child now [ ] £49,500 do you think i have got a good deal? the only pre-owned porsche

Good deal or not it looks the absolute business. If it's as good as it looks, it was about the right price from a dealer. Well done - and enjoy!

looks the business, I'm sure you'll be very pleased with it. I have to say that I would get a real kick out of going into a Ferrari dealer and telling them I was interested in the Porsche...

Yeah was quite fun! My son was gutted that he couldn't come with us (he was shooting) so the man showing us the car said he could have the full tour when we go back on friday to collect it. He can sit in all the ferrari's and go in the workshop. (Even sit in the enzo!) He is quite excited about this <---- UNDERSTATEMENT

Having some trouble with the options codes. Can't find a few of them on the internet. Can anyone help? XCA XCD 376 539 540 567 [ ]

Can't help with the XCA or XCD - Some sort of "Exclusive" Options. 367 - Sports seat, backrest shell, R 539 - Mechanical seat height adjustment, right 540 - Ditto, left 567 - Windscreen, tinted upper part, darker coloured

so now ive bought a 996 - is there an insurance company thats best to use - im with Norwich Union at the mo