GTS 4.0 manual or auto? Last sportscar? - Page 5 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Yes I know the usual advice will be stop overthinking and buy one but I'm trying to optimise, currently having an older 981 PDK on high mileage. What spec would your final sportscar be if you were viewing it as your 'forever' purchase? I'm thinking buy as late as possible before they stop making them. OPC has offered to put a new order in but suggests 50% chance of successfully getting a last allocation before builds stop in 2025. That said happy to buy existing stock but what spec? Manual as easier maintenance than PDK, need to keep extended warranty in case PDK dies? Manual is more 'old school' and I'm not focused on lap times I do have to do the odd drive to town, where my PDK excels. Is a manual going to be a pain for driving in traffic? The dynamic engine mounts seemed to have an inherent design flaw; is this now fixed, if so from what year? Any advice / input welcome. Thanks

Suspect I'd rather get a cheap white goods auto for the 'round town', perhaps even a dull EV and keep the manual for anything else. Don't discount the 2.5 GTS either, it may sound slightly different but they are still quick. If you can go pre-GPF that will make a big difference to the sound, which improves dramatically as the miles go on but think GPFs were introduced from the model year 2019 on.

Happy to be corrected, but not sure any 718 4.0 GTS were pre-GPF?

Much as I loved my 2.0 718 I took the opportunity nearly 3 years ago to buy an example of what may be the last normally aspirated flat 6 sports car Porsche are likely to make. I was also fortunate enough to be offered a 25 Year Anniversary which accepted and I don't regret for a second. Mine is a PDK and came with a pretty good spec as standard so only had to add a few essentials (Climate, Auto Dimming Mirror and Bose) to complete the package. 19K miles later and I'm still chuffed to bits with it. It has incredible performance when you want it but as easy to drive as any other car in traffic or in town. And although (as mentioned elsewhere) it's difficult to explore and exploit that performance very often where I live, it is effortless driving across the continent which is where mine has accumulated the bulk of it's miles. In short, it's probably the last sports car I'll ever buy as I can't see anything like it being made in the future and the overall package is so complete. Having said that if they hadn't brought out the 4.0 flat six I'd likely still be driving around in my 2.0 flat 4 as that is an equally brilliant package for the money.

oscmax said: Happy to be corrected, but not sure any 718 4.0 GTS were pre-GPF? Yes indeed, apologies if not clear I was referring to the 2.5. 4.0s will of course all be GPF'd.

Manual on a drivers car will long be demanded in a sea of diluted future autos. The PDK is just the basic standard Porsche box which is heavier than the manual with parasitic losses too so less compelling. It is not a heavy clutch so no problem in traffic. PADM issues no concern under Porsche warranty just had mine done on 718 GT4 (manual).

Just bought a Boxster 25, which is a 4.0 GTS. Initially wanted PDK due to the long ratios of the manual, but when a manual car showed up at a good price I tried it and found the gearing to not be an issue. More importantly the quality of the gear shift is insane, it’s just lovely to use. Enough to change my mind anyway.

I love my manual GTS 4.0. It was my 4th manual Cayman. Tall geared, yes, but torquey enough that I don't mind on the road. As others have said, light clutch, and easy to drive.

I went PDK GTS 4.0 and it made the car for me over the manual, it has more punch in the gears and really suites the engine. If you want a keeper just buy an older car imo then you don't have EPS, PADM and all the crap to go wrong if it's a life keeper.

PDK 4.0 for me. I wanted a manual but the wife wanted a PDK (my previous 718 base was PDK) in some respects I'm glad I got the PDK especially in traffic as it's my daily however I do long to rev the engine out with a manual but a simple shift to manual of the PDK and I'm happy. In some respects the best of both worlds.

Manual all day long for me, mainly for the pleasure of shifting gears. As others have said, the clutch is fine - not too light, but certainly not heavy - and the gearshift itself is really good. And there's auto-blip if you want the car to do that job for you. I have to say that I let the car do it most of the time when I'm on a spirited drive, it does it better than I can...

I opted for the manual for my (now sold) GTS 4.0. All electric cars would be automatic in the future and the proportion of automatics has been increasing. I get a lot of enjoyment from changing gears. The manual is a very simple gearbox while the PDK is expensive and complex. One downside - you won't be able to use the car's full power with a manual for a few reasons. Firstly, with the PDK, you can keep it in the max power rev range very easily. Secondly, it's much slower if you're not prepared (e.g., imagine some turbo automatic car behind you). But how often do I need to use the car's full power? Pretty much never, so I didn't care.

Had a 981 GTS PDK and now have a manual 4.0 GTS. The PDK is fantastic but I’m so pleased I went manual this time. So engaging and satisfying to drive. Love it.

Manual and PDK are equally great IMO. Depends on what you want out of the car and what your preference is - there is no really wrong choice. Mines not a daily and I wanted more engagement, plus my partner prefers manuals as she feels more in control so I have a manual. I could equally have gone PDK and not regretted that either.

Voodoo Blue said: Much as I loved my 2.0 718 I took the opportunity nearly 3 years ago to buy an example of what may be the last normally aspirated flat 6 sports car Porsche are likely to make. I was also fortunate enough to be offered a 25 Year Anniversary which accepted and I don't regret for a second. Mine is a PDK and came with a pretty good spec as standard so only had to add a few essentials (Climate, Auto Dimming Mirror and Bose) to complete the package. 19K miles later and I'm still chuffed to bits with it. It has incredible performance when you want it but as easy to drive as any other car in traffic or in town. And although (as mentioned elsewhere) it's difficult to explore and exploit that performance very often where I live, it is effortless driving across the continent which is where mine has accumulated the bulk of it's miles. In short, it's probably the last sports car I'll ever buy as I can't see anything like it being made in the future and the overall package is so complete. Having said that if they hadn't brought out the 4.0 flat six I'd likely still be driving around in my 2.0 flat 4 as that is an equally brilliant package for the money. Its made my afternoon reading this , fair play to you fella its a wonderful car you have bought

A manual 4.0 GTS is probably pound for pound the best car Porsche currently sell and one of the all time greats. The PDK is just a standard Porsche auto which is fine, you drive and steer and can flick paddles, but lose the essence and involvement of being in complete control. The joy of the 718 with a manual gearbox in 718 GTS or T format is the short throw manual gear change, simply one of the best ever, with auto blip rev match to boot. A manual gearbox 718 4.0 GTS will be worth far more than an auto one as the years go by, always has been the case. Should settle around £50k and never dip below £40k. Only slight downside is the gearing but not a big issue as there is torque throughout.

Which one do you have on your 4.0 GTS ?

reddiesel said: Voodoo Blue said: Much as I loved my 2.0 718 I took the opportunity nearly 3 years ago to buy an example of what may be the last normally aspirated flat 6 sports car Porsche are likely to make. I was also fortunate enough to be offered a 25 Year Anniversary which accepted and I don't regret for a second. Mine is a PDK and came with a pretty good spec as standard so only had to add a few essentials (Climate, Auto Dimming Mirror and Bose) to complete the package. 19K miles later and I'm still chuffed to bits with it. It has incredible performance when you want it but as easy to drive as any other car in traffic or in town. And although (as mentioned elsewhere) it's difficult to explore and exploit that performance very often where I live, it is effortless driving across the continent which is where mine has accumulated the bulk of it's miles. In short, it's probably the last sports car I'll ever buy as I can't see anything like it being made in the future and the overall package is so complete. Having said that if they hadn't brought out the 4.0 flat six I'd likely still be driving around in my 2.0 flat 4 as that is an equally brilliant package for the money. Its made my afternoon reading this , fair play to you fella its a wonderful car you have bought That's very kind of you to say so. Every time I drive it I enjoy it and sometimes I even pinch myself just to check it's real

Great stuff . I actually went looking for another 911 , read some reviews and ended up with the Cayman 4.0 GTS . I was really delighted to see What Car give it their Sports Car Of The Year award last month which is quite incredible when you consider its an almost discontinued vehicle . I suppose there may be one or two still around unregistered .

A very good friend is on his second 4.0 GTS. He’s a dyed in the wool manual fan. The first was manual. The second is PDK and he says it’s so much better. I have to admit that I would also be a manual fan but two of my cars are dual clutch and they are great and great fun in manual mode. Much more than just flipping a paddle. I suspect I would also go PDK, as much as that pains me.

As a manual 'box GTS 4.0 owner, I was quite amused to find, when checking what they are going for on Autotrader the other day, that there weren't any 2023 manual versions for sale. Not one of them! In my head (and I've driven a few), I've known PDK is just better in every way, but I've somehow managed to spec 3 new Caymans with manual box over the years. My used 981 GT4 had an easy excuse, as they only made them with manual gearbox. Fortunately fate has forced my hand just lately, and I'm picking up my first PDK Porsche on Thursday. No matter how much I love it, I will slide back into my manual GTS 4.0 the following day with the relief of knowing the lever in the middle of the car actually needs my input, rather than just being at my command. Liam

LiamH66 said: I've known PDK is just better in every way PDK is faster = fact PDK better? opinion and very soon the new electric Cayman will make PDK obsolete as it will be faster and smoother at that point the choice will be between manual and electric, and considering the 981 is the best sounding Cayster, will OP prefer the 718 or their current 981 in the long run? interesting video comparing the 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJoLwW9-1sk

JasonSteel said: PDK is faster = fact Not necessarily. Depends. From start yes but once moving the manual is invariably quicker and the other fact is the manual has a higher top speed than the PDK. As previously posted parasitic losses and extra weight of of the PDK box v manual counts against it.

JasonSteel said: interesting video comparing the 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJoLwW9-1sk If he found the 718 PASM too harsh maybe he should look at a GT car like an F Type. But I guess it depends on what you're used to. No PASM on my 718 and it is fairly solid but not uncomfortable. Having driven loaners with PASM I'd say the normal 'comfort' mode is softer than a non PASM 718 and soaks up the bumps so well if you're planning to spec 20" wheels it's ideal. 981s will be coming up to ten years old now, in the long run would presume you'd want to buy as new as possible if they're ceasing production next year to maximise the future ownership duration and usage. Re exhaust note, not having 'pops 'n bangs' would be my preference, not driven a 4.0 but having driven f-type v8s, pre GPF cars are particularly loud, fun for 5 minutes but annoying to live with and possibly a bit anti-social in these woke times. The recent ones still sound good, just a little less lairy. The 'max power' generation may take a different view of course and no doubt a Miltek (or whatever) is always an option.

av185 said: Not necessarily. Depends. From start yes but once moving the manual is invariably quicker and the other fact is the manual has a higher top speed than the PDK. As previously posted parasitic losses and extra weight of of the PDK box v manual counts against it. on a 991.2 GT3 maybeas the manual was not torque limited and it had short ratio's , on the GTS 4.0 Cayman the PDK is faster every where and has more torque and shorter ratio's. A PDK GTS is even faster than the Manual gt4's/ Spyders etc Porsche capped the torque in the manuals and gave it daft ratio's 100-200 the GTS is just faster. 0-60 its faster. so if it faster than a manual GT4 and Spyder both with more hp , it would kill a manual GTS. So you are very wrong in your thinking.

larskernisfast said: 100-200 the GTS is just faster. 0-60 its faster. so if it faster than a manual GT4 and Spyder both with more hp , it would kill a manual GTS. this is my point though. if speed is the only, or the main consideration, the electric Cayster will be faster still. electric makes ICE obsolete speed wise OP currently has a 981 and is considering a manual or PDK 4.0GTS as a last sports car. if speed is the main reason for the "upgrade", what happens when electric Cayster turns up with ICE annihilation mode?

JasonSteel said: this is my point though. if speed is the only, or the main consideration, the electric Cayster will be faster still. electric makes ICE obsolete speed wise OP currently has a 981 and is considering a manual or PDK 4.0GTS as a last sports car. if speed is the main reason for the "upgrade", what happens when electric Cayster turns up with ICE annihilation mode? I don't like the manual in 4.0 car, and I am manual die hard, but the car feels sluggish in manual to me. I don't want an electric car, and if you want a manual you are better off buying a 2010/2012 era car and getting a nice engine note and no EPS either. I don't see the point in buying a manual modern car with stupid gearing to be honest, it's just no fun on the road at all. PDK really opens up what the 4.0 GTS can do. def the right choice for me. I never and I mean never drive it in Auto, I 100% drive mine in manual mode all of the time. I don't miss manual in this car at all because it was a bit dull. No point having a clutch you never press because the car does 85 mph in 2nd ! that's not interactive at all, it's just slow and does not really work on UK b roads at all. My fun 2010 era car does 65mph in 2nd as an example and it's fun to drive and change gear. You are up and down between gears, you heal and toe etc etc the 4.0 in manual is life sucking I thought, the powers up top in the 4.0 engine and in 3rd gear you never see it ! I'll never buy a electric sports car I would say, I might buy a cheap electric hot hatch in the future, but not a sports car. if the OP wants a "last sports car" buy a 997.2 S, GTS or GT3, Cayman R etc etc . If he wants a modern fun Sports car def buy a PDK Cayman GTS 4.0. It's one of the best cars I have owned.

larskernisfast said: av185 said: Not necessarily. Depends. From start yes but once moving the manual is invariably quicker and the other fact is the manual has a higher top speed than the PDK. As previously posted parasitic losses and extra weight of of the PDK box v manual counts against it. on a 991.2 GT3 maybeas the manual was not torque limited and it had short ratio's , on the GTS 4.0 Cayman the PDK is faster every where and has more torque and shorter ratio's. A PDK GTS is even faster than the Manual gt4's/ Spyders etc Porsche capped the torque in the manuals and gave it daft ratio's 100-200 the GTS is just faster. 0-60 its faster. so if it faster than a manual GT4 and Spyder both with more hp , it would kill a manual GTS. Nope. The 991.2 GT3 manual has a flatshift option anyway a great feature which I thoroughly enjoyed on mine. Unsurprisingly the manual GT4 beats the manual GTS on acceleration and the manual GT4 beats the PDK GTS once moving and murders it on top speed by 10 mph. Here are the figures to prove. And Porsches figure disagree with you. Sounds like you are talking your own car up for some reason btw. As for interaction the PDK cannot possibly provide the interaction of a manual. Nothing wrong with liking and praising PDK as a gearbox I will have it on the RS but to claim it provides equal driver interaction as a manual is quite odd as it clearly doesn't. Edited by av185 on Monday 19th August 16:01

av185 said: Sounds like you are talking your own car up for some reason btw. I own all these cars and have vbox data, you don't ! , So talking which one up ? There is no 100-200 kph data there no one cares about vmax when both do 180mph lol that's just daft to even bring that up. A PDK GTS does 0-60 in 3.8 vs the manual GT4 at only 4.2 !! So actually backs up what I said a PDK GTS is far faster than the manual GT4 . 2: "interaction the PDK cannot possibly provide the interaction of a manual." will it can as you are doing more work in the PDK as it has shorter ratio's and lower red line vsa manual GT4 , more torque and thinner tyres so it's way more interactive as the car moves about , in the manual you don't tend to have to change gear and the 295 glue it to the road. you leave it in 3rd on a B road bast. So interaction is zero !! I don't think you drive them do you ? you def don't own them all at the same time like I do and have vbox data on each car like I do. As I say the GTS PDK is faster every where in gear vs a manual GT4 , 0-60mph 100-200kph or any in gear pull. Again Porsche are sneeky in that write up they quote 317ft lb in the 4.0 GTS PDK, but then fail to quote the lower 309 ft'lb in the manual GT4 then you have bigger tyres, more drag and wings etc etc. GTS is a very fast car, it also rides far better than the GT4 So you can carry more speed on the bumpy bits you don't have one to put side my side :-) my vbox data easy beats Porsche times also in the GTS 4.0 PDK. Edited by larskernisfast on Monday 19th August 17:16

larskernisfast said: 2: "interaction the PDK cannot possibly provide the interaction of a manual." will it can as you are doing more work in the PDK as it has shorter ratio's and lower red line vsa manual GT4 , more torque and thinner tyres so it's way more interactive as the car moves about , in the manual you don't tend to have to change gear and the 295 glue it to the road. you leave it in 3rd on a B road bast. So interaction is zero !! I don't think you drive them do you ? How can you possibly be doing more work in a PDK. Its merely a simple a pull of a lever a 12 year old could do.... thats all. Every change is like the one before and the next. Unlike a manual gearbox where every change is different and demands skill especially with correct clutch action which you seem to have conveniently forgotton about lol. You may leave a manual car in 3rd 2nd or whaever on a B road blast but I don't and I don't know anyone else who has a GT4 or manual Cayman who does either mainly because the torque carries you through unlike the 981 and GTs.. Sounds like you have been reading too many crap road tests! Don't drive my cars? Done over 20 k in many Porsche GTs including a PDK 991 GT3, manual 991.2 GT3 CS, manual Carrera T, manual 981 GT4, manual 981 Spyder, manual 718 GT4 over the last few years all owned from new btw. Also check out the top speeds btw..lower with PDK.

If you are looking at a new 4.0 GTS you may not have an option. A friend has just had his allocation confirmed, his spec was for a manual, but despite it still showing on the configurator he was told by the OPC that Porsche are only letting them lock specs in with PDK.

By sheer coincidence I was playing with the configurator today and default is now PDK with manual shown as a "no cost" option.

paulf1965 said: By sheer coincidence I was playing with the configurator today and default is now PDK with manual shown as a "no cost" option. PDK was default when I ordered my GTS 4.0 back in September 2022, although I think there was some money off for manual. I'd still have gone for manual if there wasn't, and I'm still really happy with that choice. JasonSteel said: PDK is faster = fact PDK better? opinion I think you're probably right on both counts. And while my opinion is that PDK is better, I've never considered it as being better for my own personal circumstances. Of 4 new Caymans I've ordered so far, the first one with PDK is the one that doesn't have a manual gearbox option. I really do prefer the manual boxes, but as objective as my own subjectivity can get, I think PDK does a better job than I can. I just prefer to do the job slightly less well myself when I can. Liam

av185 said: How can you possibly be doing more work in a PDK. Its merely a simple a pull of a lever a 12 year old could do.... thats all. Every change is like the one before and the next. Unlike a manual gearbox where every change is different and demands skill especially with correct clutch action which you seem to have conveniently forgotton about lol. You may leave a manual car in 3rd 2nd or whaever on a B road blast but I don't and I don't know anyone else who has a GT4 or manual Cayman who does either mainly because the torque carries you through unlike the 981 and GTs.. Sounds like you have been reading too many crap road tests! Don't drive my cars? Done over 20 k in many Porsche GTs including a PDK 991 GT3, manual 991.2 GT3 CS, manual Carrera T, manual 981 GT4, manual 981 Spyder, manual 718 GT4 over the last few years all owned from new btw. Also check out the top speeds btw..lower with PDK. As I said you don;t drive your cars you just proven it, if you are short shifting you have 200bhp lol just buy a MX5 people who say gearing is not an issue don;t drive their cars imo and as you don;t track yours either, why even own any on that list ! , you will realise when you get your 4RS how stupid your comments are with gearing. And you don't own a 4.0 GTS PDK ! Sounds to me you are more pissed off my 4.0 GTS PDK is faster than your manual GT4 and a better road car all round. 20 k is nothing over 10 years that is only 2k miles a year ! ! I do 12k a year in mine, 6x the miles. I own 2 manual cars also, my fun Porsche goes to 65mph in 2nd. as I said I own all these cars.the 4RS is gutless low down so you going to short shift that that 4k ! I see you did not agree with my post above after being wrong ! plus your Obsession with top speeds is like a op trumps 7 year olds comment even on TRack at Silverstone or SPa you will only get to 155 ish in the cars you own. I think the fastest I have been in the 4RS is 152mph on track so far. If you have orderd a 4rS and don;t track it you will, sorry to say hate the car. Edited by larskernisfast on Tuesday 20th August 08:46

4RS gutless low down. Riiight. You clearly haven't driven one. Edited by av185 on Tuesday 20th August 08:56

I'm pretty sure the Porsche blurb on their website states the top speed is higher on the manual GTS4.0 and that the in gear time they quote is the same. Whatever, horses for courses and all that. I've no doubt the PDK car is slightly more punchy out of the corners and will get off of the line more quickly. I do much, much prefer the manual car though. Except in traffic jams, then it sucks.

Must say prices seem to be falling https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/details/porsch... A couple of months back any 4.0 in the used network began with a £7 at least...

peterfield781 said: Must say prices seem to be falling A couple of months back any 4.0 in the used network began with a £7 at least... thats a 3 year old high miles very low spec car though in manual ! no GTS pack and base seats ! it's not that nice a car. I would not touch a none GTS pack GTS myself. The nice GTS pack PDK cars are still £75k and those are the cheapest ones the newer one can be mid £80's still My car was £94k list but it's a very high spec car I paid £74k for it from a OPC just 5 months old this was 8 months ago, there were cars mid £60's then even. once you start ticking SPASM, 18 ways seats sub 10k miles etc very few cars come up 6 I think all expensive I thought they were holding very well.

Hardly, That one you are pointing has a low specification probably with a base price close to £70K at the time of sale. £60K 3 years & 22,000 miles later seems like the 'buy in' value is holding pretty well.

av185 said: 4RS gutless low down. Riiight. You clearly haven't driven one. you really don't have much of a clue do you ? . My GTS picks up more than the RS at 4k revs. You forget I own all these cars at the same time, you DON'T own a GTS or a 4RS ! Porsche upped where the peak torque is in the 4RS, max torque is now at 6,750 higher than your old 991.2 GT3. it really is quite gutless low down.

larskernisfast said: av185 said: 4RS gutless low down. Riiight. You clearly haven't driven one. you really don't have much of a clue do you ? . My GTS picks up more than the RS at 4k revs. You forget I own all these cars at the same time, you DON'T own a GTS or a 4RS ! Porsche upped where the peak torque is in the 4RS, max torque is now at 6,750 higher than your old 991.2 GT3. it really is quite gutless low down. Ha thought I recognised the style of posting gobbledegook and claptrap! Mr Demon/Rupert Lambo returns yet again this time under yet another username. :

Drove my GT3 Touring PDK on the Red Bull Ring behind a 992 GTS. The GTS is definitely quicker out of a slow corner than the GT3, that needs a lot of revs to get going - but then it corners more aggressively to make up for this.

Maybe I misunderstood this but I always thought that unlike a traditional "slush-omatic" PDK is a manual box with actuators that select, preselect and engage gears for you if you choose to let it do its own thing. But you can change gear manually by using the paddles on the steering wheel or by using the gear stick by pushing it forwards and backwards when moving it over to manual mode. The only thing that's missing is a manual clutch pedal. On occasion I've used the gear stick on my PDK 4.0 and have to say it's pretty engaging and very quick changing down and up when you want within the preset parameters for the driving mode you're in so I wonder if people have ever really tried using PDK outside of Driving Miss Daisy mode. You can even short shift if you want to I get it when people say they prefer the engagement of using a manual box but the PDK is almost as engaging if you use it properly and it'll get you out of trouble if you make a mistake or forget to change up/down.

https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/details/porsch... £57k now, seems prices falling?

peterfield781 said: https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/details/porsch... £57k now, seems prices falling? I checked the prices of these the other day out of curiosity, and was pleasantly surprised, although Boxsters still seem very pricey. Although as I may have said before, I could never justify the change, as I already owned a 981.

peterfield781 said: https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/details/porsch... £57k now, seems prices falling? 22K miles. Terribly high.

Voodoo Blue said: Maybe I misunderstood this but I always thought that unlike a traditional "slush-omatic" PDK is a manual box with actuators that select, preselect and engage gears for you if you choose to let it do its own thing. But you can change gear manually by using the paddles on the steering wheel or by using the gear stick by pushing it forwards and backwards when moving it over to manual mode. The only thing that's missing is a manual clutch pedal. On occasion I've used the gear stick on my PDK 4.0 and have to say it's pretty engaging and very quick changing down and up when you want within the preset parameters for the driving mode you're in so I wonder if people have ever really tried using PDK outside of Driving Miss Daisy mode. You can even short shift if you want to I get it when people say they prefer the engagement of using a manual box but the PDK is almost as engaging if you use it properly and it'll get you out of trouble if you make a mistake or forget to change up/down. I was just thinking of posting the same sentiment. I think most who slate PDK haven't really tried it as the manual box it is by using the gear lever or even the paddles. No fluffed getaways at the lights, no missed gears, just an immediate gear change and no tired left leg in traffic.

Agree PDK is great tech and the continuous power would be far quicker for me than bashing the clutch through the changes. But if you're buying to keep as an example of a last ICE sports car then surely it has to be manual?

peterfield781 said: Agree PDK is great tech and the continuous power would be far quicker for me than bashing the clutch through the changes. But if you're buying to keep as an example of a last ICE sports car then surely it has to be manual? There were cars with manual gearboxes for 100+ years (old school) so why go with that rather than the superior gear changing technology which eclipsed it? If there was still an ICE sports car with a starting handle and acetylene headlamps would that also represent a good example of "best of breed"? In the end it's surely down to whichever the owner prefers?

100% with the above . All my Porsches have had PDK and the first one totally by accident as it was what the car simply came with . Its always a great pity when things decline into argument over Manual versus PDK and most of us have heard all the arguments before . Personally I completely understand the more connected feel you get from a manual box argument and driving a manual Porsche to perfection is almost an art form if only for the increasing prevalence of the PDK . I don't buy any increased performance arguments on a public road whilst adhering to the speed limits and speaking for myself I welcome the convenience of exploiting the roadholding without being bothered with changing gears . I am off this weekend for another look at a manual GT4......you only live once .

PDK in 4.0 GTS flat chat in sport+ and in paddle shift manual mode still puts a big grin on my face as I catch it just before red line and it barks from the exhaust and shifts so hard / fast to jolt your neck! Awesome! PDK for me.

PetrolHeadPete said: PDK in 4.0 GTS flat chat in sport+ and in paddle shift manual mode still puts a big grin on my face as I catch it just before red line and it barks from the exhaust and shifts so hard / fast to jolt your neck! Awesome! PDK for me. Why are you using the paddles to try to shift at the redline when you'll never be able to time it as well as the computer? Isn't that the whole point of going PDK? Also, the shifts jolt you not because they are fast but because the clutch is not fully engaging between changes. I think its the worst part of the transmission. At least in a manual, you can do fast shifts at the redline without feeling like the drivetrain is about to fall out of the car Not having a go, in any case, it just seems counter-intuitive to buy an auto only to use the paddles

How often do you use the pdk padles? Clarkson said you'll toy with them for the first few weeks but in time rarely, if ever, use them again.

KittyLitter said: How often do you use the pdk padles? Clarkson said you'll toy with them for the first few weeks but in time rarely, if ever, use them again. In a manual or PDK you'll spend lots of time stuck behind traffic or stuck behind the speed limit. In a manual you'll be bored changing gear but you have to. In a PDK you'll be bored also, but no needless left arm wiggling. When the road clears and you decide to drive for fun both cars will come to life. The interaction of the manual box, the interaction of the PDK via paddles or gear lever. But a manual can't be driven as an auto, it can't go round a track as fast as a PDK, it can't trickle along in traffic effortlessly. There's no best choice, that's up to you, but PDK is cleverer.

Use the paddles frequently in manual mode when having country lane hacks. Just love the sound of the 4.0 whizzy turbine flat 6 sound so shifting by hand allows me to part throttle but let the revs build out. As for the question about why not let the computer do it...cos it's more fun to try and time it myself Same reason I don't relish the thought of an EV...but that's a whole different thread

tarbrush5 said: Manual is presumably easier to fix long term than a PDK, with PDK you need to keep the warranty in case they need to replace the unit (admittedly rare but potentially a risk). Eh ?

peterfield781 said: Agree PDK is great tech and the continuous power would be far quicker for me than bashing the clutch through the changes. But if you're buying to keep as an example of a last ICE sports car then surely it has to be manual? I have been toying with this conundrum Peter and I have come to the conclusion its probably a lot of pony spouted by a few Purists in Porsche Tec sunglasses . I would love to see the figures for People who have bought a sportscar in the last 6 years or so and I would happily bet the house most are PDK or the equivalent . Its a bit like those Aston chuffers going on about the Vantage and its German engine , they cant question nor fault it as a Product so attempt and advance a Purist narrative .

peterfield781 said: https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/details/porsch... £57k now, seems prices falling? Its a fantastic car , What Car name it Sports Car of the Year last month . An astounding accolade given its age

SkinnyPete said: PetrolHeadPete said: PDK in 4.0 GTS flat chat in sport+ and in paddle shift manual mode still puts a big grin on my face as I catch it just before red line and it barks from the exhaust and shifts so hard / fast to jolt your neck! Awesome! PDK for me. Why are you using the paddles to try to shift at the redline when you'll never be able to time it as well as the computer? Isn't that the whole point of going PDK? Also, the shifts jolt you not because they are fast but because the clutch is not fully engaging between changes. I think its the worst part of the transmission. At least in a manual, you can do fast shifts at the redline without feeling like the drivetrain is about to fall out of the car Not having a go, in any case, it just seems counter-intuitive to buy an auto only to use the paddles I guess because sometimes I want to do it myself , other times I cant be bothered

I would be wary of buying a 4.0 GTS at this moment, prices seem too high and too close to GT4 and should be significantly cheaper. Higher end Porsche prices have been falling yet 718 GTS hasn’t really dropped significantly yet. Plenty of low mileage 2020 GT4 around £70k now. 2020 GTS low mileage should be max £60k. Anything with 20k miles should be around £55k and at that money they are a great buy. And the manual will always be worth more in future, the market always goes that way which tells you all you need to know about the manual v automatic gearbox debate.

Are new GTS still available to order?

An event sports car?...the 981 bests the 718 in pure character terms, like for like...imo. I've no interest in pure stats. EVs null and void that discussion It's character, involvement and design that win the heart and head in the end. Doing larger miles in built up daily traffic? then I could see the point of a PDK, and if you're heading that way then why not a 718... Usage will determine the gearbox Design and character preference will determine the model year. It's win win win with either platform, at any age. (If PDK is a pref..why not an Alpine?....if Manual is a pref...why not an Emira? - these 3 rule the sector - it's a fabulous position to be in, to choose..)

DOCG said: Are new GTS still available to order? Yes

Quickmoose said: An event sports car?...the 981 bests the 718 in pure character terms, like for like...imo. I've no interest in pure stats. EVs null and void that discussion It's character, involvement and design that win the heart and head in the end. Doing larger miles in built up daily traffic? then I could see the point of a PDK, and if you're heading that way then why not a 718... Usage will determine the gearbox Design and character preference will determine the model year. It's win win win with either platform, at any age. (If PDK is a pref..why not an Alpine?....if Manual is a pref...why not an Emira? - these 3 rule the sector - it's a fabulous position to be in, to choose..) Alpine is probably best avoided according to Which...

Since my first post on this topic, finally, I have a PDK amid the current ridiculous stable. Never thought I'd do it! First time I've owned one, but far from first time driving with one. I somehow have a manual 981 GT4, a manual 718 Cayman GTS 4.0, and a new GT4 RS, (one of which will need to go). Anyhow, hopped back in the 2023 manual GTS 4.0 for today after 10 days out of it, worrying that my left foot wouldn't remember how to work the clutch. Far from it! I'm sure it's great in PDK format, but the manual box really suits the engine and the car. I also had a quick look on Autotrader, and if you want a late model Cayman 4.0 with a manual box, they really are thin on the ground. 2023 to brand new, 65 PDK, and just 7 manual. In terms of PDK, it's all there was for the GT4 RS, so that's what I got. It's much as I've previously experienced, but with slightly nutty programming of the engine speed for automatic shift points. Most will come good once it's run in, when I'm happy to use more revs. But more importantly, it's still the outstanding techical achievement I first met. A manual gearbox that does its job without compromise, but with full automatic selection that is even smoother than a torque converter "sludge box". Always loved it, never bought it, then got the issue forced on me for good reason. Going back to the OP, would still be manual for me. I do recognise PDK is technically superior and all kinds of awesome. But I just feel more connected to the car with a foot controlled clutch and a manual gearbox. The GT4 RS sort of "needs" PDK, with its low gear ratios and high rev nature. I'm not sure the same applies to the GTS 4.0. No wrong decision available, as both are amazing in their own way. Liam

When I bought my GTS 4.0 last year I obviously had this choice. I wasn't wowed with the manual as many are, then drove one with the GT4 shorter shifter and that was much better, it's only 18mm less but feels much better harmonised with the other controls as a result imo. I went PDK. With the old school selector I can pootle in auto, click it over to manual and use the paddles or selector lever. I love that flexibility and use it in all three ways on most journeys. Not being a professional driver or track god I find the PDK gives me a better chance of having the car nicely balanced and on the correct line in the bendy bits. Trail braking becomes much simpler for me with just 2 pedals (I'm a left foot braker in autos) and if you find yourself in the land of tight hairpins then you can usefully select first gear at reasonable speeds. Which for me adds up to a smoother, quicker and more rewarding drive. The best way to decide for you might be a PEC half day (2 sessions) and do one session in each.

I had a manual CGTS 4.0 from Aug 20 until March 23 and loved it. Decided in March this year to step back into the same car albeit a PDK. I have done 2K miles in the current car and as a direct comparison I actually prefer the PDK. No right or wrong of course just personal preference.

This one seems very good value for £53K https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202409053...

That seems really cheap, wonder what the spec is

They do seem great value below 60k. I’m wondering why, is Rachel Thieves planning some sort of extortionate road tax raid above 2 litres?

peterfield781 said: They do seem great value below 60k. I’m wondering why, is Rachel Thieves planning some sort of extortionate road tax raid above 2 litres? Pay per mile is coming

peterfield781 said: They do seem great value below 60k. I’m wondering why, is Rachel Thieves planning some sort of extortionate road tax raid above 2 litres? Unlikely, purely because the number of cars on the road today above 2.0 litres these days means it wouldn't net much money. Tip over point into harsh tax levels would have to be below 2 litres if you wanted to make real money. Contrary to above, road pricing isn't coming any time really soon, either. It would take quite a while to implement even if a decision was made tomorrow to go that direction. It actually makes sense and is very doable, it's just not something you can introduce overnight. Doubtful they'd backport it to old cars, though that is technically not actually that difficult. More likely will be mandated for new cars to have requisite tracking to price road usage, which would be pretty ominous for enjoying any new car from that point on in driving terms. But even that will be years away at the soonest.

KittyLitter said: This one seems very good value for £53K https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202409053... I do love red with gold wheels

Mezgerking said: I would be wary of buying a 4.0 GTS at this moment, prices seem too high and too close to GT4 and should be significantly cheaper. Higher end Porsche prices have been falling yet 718 GTS hasn’t really dropped significantly yet. Plenty of low mileage 2020 GT4 around £70k now. 2020 GTS low mileage should be max £60k. Anything with 20k miles should be around £55k and at that money they are a great buy. And the manual will always be worth more in future, the market always goes that way which tells you all you need to know about the manual v automatic gearbox debate. These are great cars, imo better than the manuals to actually drive in the real world , if you want analog buy an older circa 2010-12 car. These are not keepers cars due to padm errors etc, Price vs gt4 who cares, it’s a nicer road car than a GT4, I have heated seats, adaptive cruise, multi function wheel etc, so vs a GT4 price wise mine has more kit. Mine was £94k new due to the very high spec but the cars mega. Why you think it should be cheaper than a GT4 is odd. Manuals are really poor sellers as seen, 987 era manuals win 997 era manuals win 718 era PDK seems to win, and after driving both the gearing saps the life out of the 4.0 engine Imo, the PDK flies and in a strange way keeps you more interested and connected to the car, I drive mine 100% manual every where though. The manuals is a bit dull I thought leave it in 3rd and fall asleep. Cayman GTS 4.0 PDK SPASM is one of the greats imo, but still not a last keeper. Just a bloody good drivers car in today’s world. It’s not dropped much because it’s so good.

I do think these are great cars. Either box, it’s what works for you. Is there any more enthusiastic buyers amongst the OPC’s. I have had a bid as I am buying a property but it’s not amazing.

Update! On the Porsche website there was a way to send the enquiry to all buyers. Got a much more sensible bid.

detee said: Update! On the Porsche website there was a way to send the enquiry to all buyers. Got a much more sensible bid. What bid did you get and where’s this functionality on the website? I sold my GTS 4.0 (MY23, 2.7k miles, 72 plate) a month ago to supplying OPC, margin was £10k, it took them a month to sell. I could have gotten maybe another £2-3k with more effort but I wasn’t happy with the car and wanted it gone ASAP.

I had one as a courtesy car, it was actually a very easy manual and a lot of fun. IIRC in Sports mode it rev matched on the downshift and the gear change was pleasant too. I'd probably go manual to be honest.

Mezgerking said: I would be wary of buying a 4.0 GTS at this moment, prices seem too high and too close to GT4 and should be significantly cheaper. Higher end Porsche prices have been falling yet 718 GTS hasn’t really dropped significantly yet. Plenty of low mileage 2020 GT4 around £70k now. 2020 GTS low mileage should be max £60k. Anything with 20k miles should be around £55k and at that money they are a great buy. And the manual will always be worth more in future, the market always goes that way which tells you all you need to know about the manual v automatic gearbox debate. I suspect many are beginning to realise the value for money in a 4.0 GTS and the Dealers and Specialists are no exception . I don't necessarily agree about that age old argument about a manual being more desirable than a PDK . Historically that's certainly been the case but generations of Sports Cars Owners are now coming through who have never driven a manual and I wonder how desirable they feel about the prospect

Mr Harris has called it probably the best Porsche on sale today in his latest podcast (at least I think that’s what he said). Lovely stuff.

I had a manual GTS 4.0 and loved it. Great gearbox even though the gearing is bit long. Now have a PDK GTS 4.0 and love that too. The technology is astonishingly good. There are times when I do miss the manual box. Particularly when cruising, used too like easing it gently from one gear to another. But I'm equally sure that were I to go back to a manual there would be plenty of times I would miss the PDK. They are both great gears and the car is fabulous whichever box you have. Get the one you want without trying to second guess the used market; after all you will want to keep it a long time.

Having waxed lyrical about my recently acquired GT4 RS a few weeks ago, I'm back in the 2023 Cayman GTS 4.0 (manual gearbox) for now. Yesterday, I spent 6 hours or so drive time, covering some of the more splendid and varied roads of the North of England on a work trip. First of all, I'm sure I'd have enjoyed doing the same in the GT4 RS, with the PDK box. But I'd have been a bit deaf today, and I would certainly have been pretty tired by the time I got home. Was surprised to see I've covered almost 9000 miles in the GTS 4.0 from new this time last year. I don't feel like I've used it that much, and it doesn't look all that used, but then it's so easy to live with you don't really notice. Comfortable and quiet when all you can do is keep up with the traffic, completely precise and engaging on a clear A-road, just an incredibly competent road car. I got to thinking at a few stages of the journey whether PDK would have been the better option, now that GT4 RS ownership has forced down that route. The "hooligan" in me is definitely more quickly released by PDK. You don't even have to think about it, just mash the throttle pedal and it selects the right gear to get the "traction control" light flashing faster than you can think about engaging 2nd or 3rd in the manual car. But then as a smooth and controlled driving experience, short shifting down a twisty A-road and conserving momentum through the corners, there's some real pleasure in trying to get every manual shift perfect. Going back to the OP's original question, I don't think it actually matters which you get, manual or auto, you just need a GTS 4.0. I can convince myself that, for my own purposes, my first (also manual) 718 Cayman 2.0 did the same job at a much lower price. So much so that I bought a brand new duplicate of it a couple of years ago. It also used a whole lot less fuel doing that same job. But there's something a bit more fabulous about the instant "NA" throttle response, the leather and alcantara cocoon, and the feeling of having a 4.0 litre, 6 cylinder engine a few inches behind my lumbar region that makes the day better than it might have been. It can be coupled to the most technically advanced auto gearbox know to man, or to a totally sublime (if over-geared) manual gearbox and clutch. I went with the manual version on principle, but having experienced both at reasonable length now, that bit doesn't matter. You'd have to be dead inside not to notice what an immensely enjoyable car you are driving. I ordered it as a slightly tongue in cheek take on a "winter hack / daily", winter wheels and tyres ready to go back on soon. But it's so much more than that it took me by surprise. In the laughably first-world position of owning a 981 GT4, 718 GTS 4.0 and 718 GT4 RS just now, the GTS is easily the best road car ojectively. Subjectively is a harder question, but probably more about me than the cars. I bet it woud be quicker in my hands than the 981 GT4 round any circuit I've driven so far, but mostly because it's easier to drive. Monumentally good cars. Wouldn't overthink the gearbox choice, as I'm not sure it matters that much. Liam

Great write up Liam and good to hear your views of the 4.0 coming from the 4RS.

Thanks for taking the time to write that. It's an example of what's best about this community

What Car named the GTS 4.0 Best Sports Car for 2024 and after rattling up 18000 miles in a year since buying mine new , I think its a wonderful machine . Strangely enough I prefer the looks of the GT4 to the RS as I struggle a bit with the size of that rear wing . My main worry is would I buy a GT4 then wish I had stopped with the GTS on account of the track focussed GT4 being a more unforgiving ride on normal roads

Wouldn't say the GT4 is more unforgiving than the GTS on normal UK roads if the car is used as intended. Great road car and suitably rapid enough with great driver interaction (esp the manual) and around 85% of a GT3 imo at 60% of the cost. Also the GT4 is more 50.50 road v track biased i.e. same as the 991.2 GT3 (with similar compliancy in suspension) unlike the more track focused 992. GT3 which is around 75.25.

Thanks for the kind words @scrounger73 and @oddman. reddiesel said: <snip>. Strangely enough I prefer the looks of the GT4 to the RS as I struggle a bit with the size of that rear wing . My main worry is would I buy a GT4 then wish I had stopped with the GTS on account of the track focussed GT4 being a more unforgiving ride on normal roads Agree, the GT4 RS looks slightly ridiculous, but in a good way... I love it, but I do feel a bit self conscious in the supermarket car park. Haven't been to the local tip in it yet, not sure I will. It does attract a lot of attention, including a lot of compliments about what a great looking car it is. Funnily enough my wife doesn't seem to have noticed the rear wing. She only clocked that I had a new car about 10 days after I got it, due to the carbon bonnet. Personally, I just love the look of the 981 GT4 better than all the rest. Mine's up for sale at my favourite OPC just now, but I'm secretly hoping they can't find a buyer. Outclassed on the road by the GTS 4.0, and on the track by the GT4 RS. But such a great car, and a really amusing slice of Porsche history. However, 718 GT4 is pretty good in terms of ride, as @AV185 says. Wouldn't worry about that. Importantly to me, the GTS has a load more ground clearance on the front "lip". It's also a bit less conspicuous looking, so I don't worry too much about where I can go, and where I might be parking. Of the Caymans I've had so far, the GTS 4.0 is the best all-rounder. Only things it really gets beaten on are fuel consumption from the 718 2.0, grin factor of the 981 GT4, and of course outright track performance (and total ridiculousness) of the GT4 RS. Liam

Good to hear your thoughts on the cars Liam and especially the 4RS it sure is a last of the line banshee...

JasonSteel said: PDK is faster = fact PDK better? opinion and very soon the new electric Cayman will make PDK obsolete as it will be faster and smoother at that point the choice will be between manual and electric, and considering the 981 is the best sounding Cayster, will OP prefer the 718 or their current 981 in the long run? interesting video comparing the 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJoLwW9-1sk Tks for sharing this vid as i'd not seen it. Confirms my decision about sticking with the 981

GT3Manthey said: JasonSteel said: PDK is faster = fact PDK better? opinion and very soon the new electric Cayman will make PDK obsolete as it will be faster and smoother at that point the choice will be between manual and electric, and considering the 981 is the best sounding Cayster, will OP prefer the 718 or their current 981 in the long run? interesting video comparing the 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJoLwW9-1sk Tks for sharing this vid as i'd not seen it. Confirms my decision about sticking with the 981 Think I’ll seek out a nearly new 718, if they are stopping selling ICE I’d want it to last as long as possible and 981s are getting on a bit now. Would also be fairly easy to strip out the gpf, theoretically of course…

peterfield781 said: Think I’ll seek out a nearly new 718, if they are stopping selling ICE I’d want it to last as long as possible and 981s are getting on a bit now. Would also be fairly easy to strip out the gpf, theoretically of course… Fair point although i think the lack of noise would make me question the decision and also make me think what additional i was gaining for the extra cash. That said, if i get to drive one maybe i'd change my mind !

I'm no price guru but this car from a dealer with low mileage struck me as good value ? https://www.fleetsalesleicester.co.uk/used-porsche...

The downside of these later cars - and it's the same for all similarly priced car is the luxury car tax implications. I'd swap my 981 GTS for a newer one, but I'm very reluctant to give the Gov thousands of uneccessary pounds for having one. It's such a rip off!

andygo said: The downside of these later cars - and it's the same for all similarly priced car is the luxury car tax implications. I'd swap my 981 GTS for a newer one, but I'm very reluctant to give the Gov thousands of uneccessary pounds for having one. It's such a rip off! Ahh didn't realise that . I'd thought about my 981 BGTS vs one although the uplift would likely be 25/30k so not really an option.