Mid engined driving tips - Page 2 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Have just bought a 981 Cayman GTS after a succession of BMWs so I'm used to RWD but is there anything to watch out for with these mid engined cars? I recall a thread some time ago about a guy who aquaplaned one into the central reservation and am conscious of the weather now we are getting into winter proper as I will daily drive it year round. Cheers for any tips or guidance, circuit or trailbraking tips also appreciated vs driving on the road. Edited by Johnson897210 on Tuesday 19th November 14:11

I bought my 981C in November and immediately booked a "half day warm up" at the Porsche Experience Centre so as to get to grips with how it handles. I asked my nearest and dearest for it as an early Christmas present. I thoroughly recommend you do the same.

Everything you will ever need to know about driving a Cayman (or indeed any car) is contained in the below video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fbuRCLQEsQ Key takeouts are: 1. Smash it into gear 2. Treat the rev counter like one of those punch bags at an amusement park (you win if you can get it right to the very top on a downshift) 3. Keep weight distribution centred by only ever having one hand on the steering wheel The rest will just come with experience... ETA: Just noticed another key driving tip in this video, always remember to release and then reapply the throttle aggressively mid corner (it helps to boost fuel economy) Edited by LennyM1984 on Tuesday 19th November 19:24

LennyM1984 said: Everything you will ever need to know about driving a Cayman (or indeed any car) is contained in the below video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fbuRCLQEsQ Key takeouts are: 1. Smash it into gear 2. Treat the rev counter like one of those punch bags at an amusement park (you win if you can get it right to the very top on a downshift) 3. Keep weight distribution centred by only ever having one hand on the steering wheel The rest will just come with experience... ETA: Just noticed another key driving tip in this video, always remember to release and then reapply the throttle aggressively mid corner (it helps to boost fuel economy) Edited by LennyM1984 on Tuesday 19th November 19:24 I saw this too. Absolutely shocking.

DJMC said: I bought my 981C in November and immediately booked a "half day warm up" at the Porsche Experience Centre so as to get to grips with how it handles. I asked my nearest and dearest for it as an early Christmas present. I thoroughly recommend you do the same. Are you implying that your nearest and dearest my pay for the day?

Treat it like a RWD, just keep it smooth and manage weight transfer like you would in any car.

Johnson897210 said: Have just bought a 981 Cayman GTS after a succession of BMWs so I'm used to RWD but is there anything to watch out for with these mid engined cars? I recall a thread some time ago about a guy who aquaplaned one into the central reservation and am conscious of the weather now we are getting into winter proper as I will daily drive it year round. Cheers for any tips or guidance, circuit or trailbraking tips also appreciated vs driving on the road. Edited by Johnson897210 on Tuesday 19th November 14:11 Not really. 981s are very benign.

I think what you have seen probably had more to do with: 1. Poor tyre choice 2. Cold tyres 3. Inappropriate speed 4. The unexpected ... road ... spill ... driver ... car technical issue There's been an interesting discussion about what mid engined / rear engined / front engined really means ... it's more to do with front to rear weight distribution and polar momentum. And physics ... so the bottom line is to be mindful of all those things that might cause you a problem. As such mid engined cars having lower polar momentum change direction more easily but if they do it unexpectedly require quicker hands to catch them ... which could be fun. For the best chance select as above ... -1, -2, -3, and try to anticipate 4 I hope this makes sense !!

DarkVeil said: I saw this too. Absolutely shocking. In fairness though (and relevant to this topic) it does show how forgiving the handling of a standard Cayman is. That guy is literally doing everything possible to unbalance a car and it still just about makes it through every corner facing the right way. I did the first trackday in my Cayman for several years on Saturday (I've been racing another car the past few years) and I was reminded just how lovely the handling was. I was only driving at 6 or 7/10ths (I went to learn the circuit for next year and to escape the kids for a day) but the car would just turn in so nicely and then effortlessly maintain a perfect amount of slide through the mid corner and exit.

LennyM1984 said: DarkVeil said: I saw this too. Absolutely shocking. In fairness though (and relevant to this topic) it does show how forgiving the handling of a standard Cayman is. That guy is literally doing everything possible to unbalance a car and it still just about makes it through every corner facing the right way. I did the first trackday in my Cayman for several years on Saturday (I've been racing another car the past few years) and I was reminded just how lovely the handling was. I was only driving at 6 or 7/10ths (I went to learn the circuit for next year and to escape the kids for a day) but the car would just turn in so nicely and then effortlessly maintain a perfect amount of slide through the mid corner and exit. Yes, many cars with less sophisticated chassis / electronics and benign handling would have punted him off before the third corner…I’d love to see him try that in a 1984 carrera.

LennyM1984 said: Everything you will ever need to know about driving a Cayman (or indeed any car) is contained in the below video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fbuRCLQEsQ Key takeouts are: 1. Smash it into gear 2. Treat the rev counter like one of those punch bags at an amusement park (you win if you can get it right to the very top on a downshift) 3. Keep weight distribution centred by only ever having one hand on the steering wheel The rest will just come with experience... ETA: Just noticed another key driving tip in this video, always remember to release and then reapply the throttle aggressively mid corner (it helps to boost fuel economy) Edited by LennyM1984 on Tuesday 19th November 19:24 Always remember, keep your hand on the gear lever at all times A great spoof .. even down to the Dave Botterell crash helmet ? Edited by ChrisW. on Tuesday 19th November 21:04

With a mid engined car the polar moment of inertia is lower than a front engined rear wheel drive car so you can corner faster.There's less pendulum motion. But when it lets go it's usually more snap and rotate.

Waiting for Steve Rance to come in and basically say you should drive it like you drive any other car on the road. And he knows a thing or two about driving

rbh said: DJMC said: I bought my 981C in November and immediately booked a "half day warm up" at the Porsche Experience Centre so as to get to grips with how it handles. I asked my nearest and dearest for it as an early Christmas present. I thoroughly recommend you do the same. Are you implying that your nearest and dearest my pay for the day? I think you missed out the words "use" and "credit card to" as in: "Are you implying that your nearest and dearest use my credit card to pay for the day?" I did wonder if you'd volunteer to pay, and I was right, you have!

I find trail braking more advantageous in my Porsche than other cars I've driven. Other than that I'd just recommend spending time getting used to the car. The only time I ever got a bit caught out was braking into a corner in the wet and was surprised how much the front pushed on, in fairness it was on old tyres at the time and I've since removed some toe in from the front axle along with new tyres it turns in much better now!

LiamH66 said: ChrisW. said: <snip> There's been an interesting discussion about what mid engined / rear engined / front engined really means ... it's more to do with front to rear weight distribution and polar momentum. And physics ... so the bottom line is to be mindful of all those things that might cause you a problem. As such mid engined cars having lower polar momentum change direction more easily but if they do it unexpectedly require quicker hands to catch them ... which could be fun. For the best chance select as above ... -1, -2, -3, and try to anticipate 4 I hope this makes sense !! This! Fast hands, slow feet turn out to be the answer when you get into difficulties. They are absolute pussycats 99% of the time, but always bear in mind how close you are sitting to the centre of gravity, which is great in terms of absolute grip, but means it's harder to feel unintentional rotation, or lack of it (AKA spinning the car, or heading into a hedge straight on). I've spent a serious amount of time on the PEC low friction circuits making sure I'll likely avoid stuffing a Cayman, and many hours on track without doing that thing yet. In an understeer situation, it's all relatively similar to any other car, albeit with less weight on the front axle. But oversteer can catch you out when you're not used to it. If you leave all the driver aids on it's fairly easy to keep everything looking tidy. Can get a bit out of hand if you've turned them all off. A trip to the PEC is a good investment as suggested. Most instructors have said unprompted that although the mid-engined cars are probably the best handling, they are the hardest to catch and balance a controlled slide with. 4th and 5th Cayman for me so far, and I have a lot of serious kart racing experience, but I don't ever underestimate that it's a learnt experience, so I've concentrated on learning it. They really don't bite without being provoked, but it's a good idea to get a feel for when you might be provoking them. It's a little different from most. Liam You might need to explain what PEC means or where it is? We used to use Motor industry Reasearch (MIRA) The biggest thing I learned on wet handling courses is to unwind the lock when the car understeers (any car) as tyres grip best when straight ahead. The natural reaction is to turn the wheel more when it pushes on (see the terrible vid of the cayman) but if you unwind the lock the grip returns….it takes practice for it to become second nature but feels like witch craft when the grip comes back immediately.

LennyM1984 said: Everything you will ever need to know about driving a Cayman (or indeed any car) is contained in the below video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fbuRCLQEsQ Key takeouts are: 1. Smash it into gear 2. Treat the rev counter like one of those punch bags at an amusement park (you win if you can get it right to the very top on a downshift) 3. Keep weight distribution centred by only ever having one hand on the steering wheel The rest will just come with experience... ETA: Just noticed another key driving tip in this video, always remember to release and then reapply the throttle aggressively mid corner (it helps to boost fuel economy) Edited by LennyM1984 on Tuesday 19th November 19:24 "why change brake pads when you can just change the engine" - best comment haha.

Johnson897210 said: Have just bought a 981 Cayman GTS after a succession of BMWs so I'm used to RWD but is there anything to watch out for with these mid engined cars? I recall a thread some time ago about a guy who aquaplaned one into the central reservation and am conscious of the weather now we are getting into winter proper as I will daily drive it year round. Cheers for any tips or guidance, circuit or trailbraking tips also appreciated vs driving on the road. Edited by Johnson897210 on Tuesday 19th November 14:11 Having had both, GTS's and BMW M Cars also, honestly you have nothing to worry about. The mechanical grip of the GTS is plenty on the road. Good tyres that aren't really really old and drive to the conditions and its fine. I'd have PS4S or SC7 than P Zero's especially over the winter. On the limit things change with front rwd and mid rwd, on the limit I found the M cars to be more progressive and easier to balance when they do step out, although the M2s short wheel base did make it snappy, the GTS will break away quicker when it goes and it need quicker reactions imo, however on the road its fine, you really have to be on the limit to have any issues. Enjoy, there great fun!

ChrisW. said: <snip> There's been an interesting discussion about what mid engined / rear engined / front engined really means ... it's more to do with front to rear weight distribution and polar momentum. And physics ... so the bottom line is to be mindful of all those things that might cause you a problem. As such mid engined cars having lower polar momentum change direction more easily but if they do it unexpectedly require quicker hands to catch them ... which could be fun. For the best chance select as above ... -1, -2, -3, and try to anticipate 4 I hope this makes sense !! This! Fast hands, slow feet turn out to be the answer when you get into difficulties. They are absolute pussycats 99% of the time, but always bear in mind how close you are sitting to the centre of gravity, which is great in terms of absolute grip, but means it's harder to feel unintentional rotation, or lack of it (AKA spinning the car, or heading into a hedge straight on). I've spent a serious amount of time on the Porsche Experience Centre Silverstone (PEC) low friction circuits making sure I'll likely avoid stuffing a Cayman, and many hours on track without doing that thing yet. In an understeer situation, it's all relatively similar to any other car, albeit with less weight on the front axle. But oversteer can catch you out when you're not used to it. If you leave all the driver aids on it's fairly easy to keep everything looking tidy. Can get a bit out of hand if you've turned them all off. A trip to the PEC is a good investment as suggested. Most instructors have said unprompted that although the mid-engined cars are probably the best handling, they are the hardest to catch and balance a controlled slide with. 4th and 5th Cayman for me so far, and I have a lot of serious kart racing experience, but I don't ever underestimate that it's a learnt experience, so I've concentrated on learning it. They really don't bite without being provoked, but it's a good idea to get a feel for when you might be provoking them. It's a little different from most. Liam Edited by LiamH66 on Wednesday 20th November 22:31

JayK12 said: LennyM1984 said: Everything you will ever need to know about driving a Cayman (or indeed any car) is contained in the below video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fbuRCLQEsQ Key takeouts are: 1. Smash it into gear 2. Treat the rev counter like one of those punch bags at an amusement park (you win if you can get it right to the very top on a downshift) 3. Keep weight distribution centred by only ever having one hand on the steering wheel The rest will just come with experience... ETA: Just noticed another key driving tip in this video, always remember to release and then reapply the throttle aggressively mid corner (it helps to boost fuel economy) Edited by LennyM1984 on Tuesday 19th November 19:24 "why change brake pads when you can just change the engine" - best comment haha. 4. Always keep your left hand on the gear lever - up- or downshifts may be required at any moment for maximum speed 5. Continously rock back-and-forth in your seat when accellerating - the weight-transfer adds further momentum

It was me that aquaplaned into the central reservation on a test drive. This essentially came down to cup 2’s in monsoon weather conditions in November hitting standing water on a motorway. No silly speeds, think the salesperson clocked I was doing 60mph, it was just one of those things!! Lesson - don’t use cup 2’s in really wet conditions!!!

I don’t know where the OP is located but my advice would be to book a day with Carlimits at North Weald, Mark instructs for Porsche at Silverstone, and will (amongst other things) have you controlling oversteer in a safe environment.

Did the traction control come on when it started to skid? Looking to take the GT4 with cup 2 up to NC500 but there is no guarantee that it will stay dry.

jay2000 said: Did the traction control come on when it started to skid? Looking to take the GT4 with cup 2 up to NC500 but there is no guarantee that it will stay dry. Can't comment on Cup 2s, but traction/stability control systems/ABS won't be able to do much when aquaplaning, as the car effectively doesn't have any grip, so braking wheels etc to keep the car balanced/straight will be of limited use - once the grip comes back they'll work as normal on acceleration/braking/cornering.

Went on the wet track on cup2 at porsche's silverstone track but cannot remember how it behaved as i was having too much fun. I agree that the ABS etc would not work without grip but i assume once you have driven over the wet patch on the highway, you will get the grip back and the ABS will start to correct. Maybe by then its too late if you are backwards... Would love to hear other's real life experiences as i am hoping to take the GT4 on more long European trips without changing the cup 2.

SkinnyPete said: Johnson897210 said: Have just bought a 981 Cayman GTS after a succession of BMWs so I'm used to RWD but is there anything to watch out for with these mid engined cars? I recall a thread some time ago about a guy who aquaplaned one into the central reservation and am conscious of the weather now we are getting into winter proper as I will daily drive it year round. Cheers for any tips or guidance, circuit or trailbraking tips also appreciated vs driving on the road. Edited by Johnson897210 on Tuesday 19th November 14:11 Not really. 981s are very benign. I've had my mere 2.9 987.2 for just over 12 months. Having had a Supersport Caterham for 18 years I'm well used to a tail-happy car in the wet and a bit of lift-off oversteer, so I treated my first mid-engined car with a bit of caution at first. However, it is very user-friendly, and as Skinny Pete said, it has very benign handling, certainly for road use. On the track, with driving aids turned off, it may be a bit different.

Re the Cup 2 questions, i'd seriously reconsider the NC 500 with them on, especially in winter. My GT4 has snapped out of shape at very low speeds on damp roads on the them, no warning at all. Drove it at Silverstone last November, freezing but dry, had literally zero grip at 30 mph on the sighting laps, almost understeered off twice on the damp sections. Was ok once we got a dry line. Be warned...

DJMC said: I bought my 981C in November and immediately booked a "half day warm up" at the Porsche Experience Centre so as to get to grips with how it handles. I asked my nearest and dearest for it as an early Christmas present. I thoroughly recommend you do the same. ^This^ I had a gift of a half day at the PEC at Silverstone (also a Christmas Present). We also shared the "full day" that came with the car. Highly recommend it and the kick plate and catching spins was brilliant. T1b

Caddyshack said: Treat it like a RWD, just keep it smooth and manage weight transfer like you would in any car. …and, being mid-engined, don't expect much weight transfer