Complete service histories scarce as hen's teeth

It's a bit of a conundrum, I've read so much about how important the complete service and repair history is, yet no one has one... other than the two or three years they have owned the car, the dealers have nothing... so do I just rely on the PPI and my take on the seller's integrity?

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A thorough PPI is the key for me.

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Meh. I didn't get one on mine. Just took it for a test drive, listened to the car, and looked around it really well. Unless it's envasive it's not really going to find much. Service records aren't a big deal really either, plus they can't tell if the IMS was replaced (if there is no sticker or history) and they can't tell the condition of the clutch unless it's shot. So again, a good test drive while listening and feeling the car is about as good for me.

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A good service history is just part choosing the right used car. While it is nice to find a car with one it is rare to find a car with one. (In the UK complete service histories are so favored there is some kind of a cottage industry -- of sorts -- that can fake or mimic the stamps dealers use to stamp the service book. Thus finding a car with a fully stamped service book is not necessarily the same as finding a car with a complete service history.) But the actual condition of the car is also important, too. How a car was serviced way back when is less important compared to how the car checks out now. One can learn a lot from a good test ride and then a test drive followed by a thorough used car check out. But how the car initially looks and is presented is also important. Little things left unfixed. Niggling problems. Wrong/off brand (non N-rated) tires. Just general signs the car was not loved and thus probably not taken very good care of are clues. And this brings me to this and something you touched upon and that is another important aspect is the seller's integrity, one's impression of this from talking to the seller. Some buyers are pretty good at this. Others not so much. But one can help himself by looking at a number of cars and speaking with a variety of sellers and getting them talking about the car and listening to what they say or don't say and honing some capability of assessing the seller's integrity regarding the car and its servicing and ultimately its condition. Afterwards a PPI is nice as the car gets lifted and a careful check can be made for any signs of problems underneath the car. I'm talking about leaks from any number of places, CV boot condition, and the general condition of the underside of the car. There is the DME overrev counter and engine run time info too that is nice to have. But obviously some bypass or forego this PPI and do ok. It depends upon the access one has to the car or how much effort one puts into his checkout of the car and one's experience.

I think having records is a good thing just like getting a PPI from someone that really knows the specific model, but they are both tools and have their limits. If it's not invasive there are some serious things a PPI will miss. Records are great and can tell you how much effort an owner put into maintaining it, but they don't tell you how the car was driven or even why some maintenance was done (was the IMSB replaced preventatively or because metal was showing up?). On the flip side a PPI can "kill" a good car with a bunch of stuff that should either be expected or is nickel/dime stuff and a "poor" maintenance history may cover up a perfectly healthy car. For example we didn't do the 6/60 until it was 12 years old and those really concerned about the records would probably freak out over that. Doing that 6 years earlier would have had no impact on the 2nd gear synchro and otherwise the car is still running like a top 4 years later. Personally if we were ever to sell our car, the new owner won't get the records even though we have all ~16 years (so far). Happy to let them look at it, but the only thing that will leave our control is the window sticker. So it really comes down to being a tool to help you feel more comfortable, but it is no guaranty of anything. At the end of the day you just have to go with your gut and pick the car you think is best.

I had the same issue when buying a car from a dealer on a car that he got at auction. However, with a Carfax report and a few phone calls, plus a PPI, I was able to piece together some history. Luckily, it had been to a Porsche dealer a few times and the Service guys at these dealerships had no problem sharing their info with me. The PPI revealed several small things - maybe $800 worth total if you paid someone to do the fixes. I didn't want this dealer doing any work on the car and just ignored these issues. There were no surprises for me when I picked up the car because the PPI had alerted me to the issues I would see. I did the fixes myself when I got the car home plus some PM too.

I ran a carfax and got a number of service records from 2 different dealers (7) car only had ~17k miles, and all of the state registration changes/renewals

I agree, service histories are rare. I keep records of everything, but most sellers are either too disorganized or just don't see the importance. When I bought my 996 the seller had the complete history, all receipts, and it was a local car sold by the local dealer. It also had a recent PPI that showed only very minor issues that were easy to fix. After checking everything out, listening to the seller, and taking a test drive, I decided the car was the right one and paid him the asking price.

I had all of the service history records since Porsche put in a re manufactured engine before I bought my 911. The PO sent me copies of invoices before I viewed the car and I got the indie shop's opinion on the car before I purchased the vehicle. To me, learning more about how the PO maintained the vehicle is more valuable than a PPI. I don't need to see a receipt for every oil change, but things like water pump, coolant hoses, and clutch (assuming they've been done) are an absolute must in my opinion.

Hi Paul, Along with all the other points, I would recommend getting on the phone and calling the known/suspected workshops that previously worked on the vehicle. With the rego and VIN details, some time, patience and charm, you can reconstruct much of the vehicles history. I did this when I bought my 986, and went into the negotiations knowing more about the vehicle than the owner did. There was no real service history, and organising a PPI was not practicable at the time. End result was that I got a vehicle with no surprises at a good price. Oh, and the service manager at the local OPC scored a Liquor Land voucher for his efforts 😊(pls note, this was not offered to him before seeking the information, but was a genuine 'thank you' for his help once I bought the car). I'm on the hunt for a 996 now, and will employ similar tactics regardless of the state of the service history.

I am with the folks that keep a notebook on each of my vehicles. All service invoices, registrations, receipts go into it. I will say it is not critical but it is a nice plus to see that pile of paper. You can use that along with CarFax and a PPI to get a feel for the car. That said, just because the car is maintained does not mean it has not been beat on. On another note I am picking up a new to me 2004 C4S cab tomorrow. Pics to come.

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Curious why you'd do that? If I was a buyer and saw all these records I'd surely want them and it'd make me suspicious that you wouldn't release them to me.

Personal Info security?

Critical elements when buying a used Porsche for me: (assumes a remote sale, as I usually am looking for a unique color or car): 1. Ad presentation, photos, and seller - nothing sketchy, fuzzy, or vague 2. Initial conversation - do they know the car and answer questions with confidence 3. Carfax - with the caveat that it is only part of the story 4. In person or independent 'friend' walk around and test drive. Rennlist is great for this if the car is not local! 5. A talk with the shop that services the car and a look at whatever records are available. Don't need 10 years, but want to see/learn some recent information. 6. A thorough PPI, preferable by a shop the owner does not use 7. Finally, the owners response to anything critical the shop discovers This process has gotten me successfully through my last two Porsche sports car purchases, both out of state. That said, both cars had paintwork not identified on Carfax and not disclosed by seller. As I drive them, my focus was quality of the work and appropriate pricing. And here's a question... As the 'newest' 996 is now pushing 12 years old, should a leak down test now be an essential part of the PPI or do you just do that for cars over a certain mileage? , good PPI from a shop that does not service the car (

I have been keeping records on my car since I bought her in '05. Really would consider buying a car without that kind of documentation. Used cars are (relatively) large purchases, (especially P-cars) and without having the ability to review the service history, in 99% of the time, I think I'd walk away. As has been said in here, the service history is only part of the due diligence. No one wants to spend a chunk of change, then come to find out the cars needs work. These cars are not cheap to fix and you need to get as much info as possible to be able to correctly assess if that car is right for you. GL in the hunt. I am contemplating getting ready to sell my baby, just an FYI.

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When I sold my 996, I had a 2" binder full of records, receipts, and the window sticker. I gave all of that to the buyer, although I removed any personal information from the records.

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Craig is right. It's probably an outmoded concern these days with the Internet, but that's how my dad taught me well before it was household tool.

Not many owners keep meticulous records - like many of us on these boards - so you might get history on 1 owner 5 year old car that had aways been at the same dealer , but 10-15 year old multi owner car is much harder. Like others said ppi is key and ask current owner where he had work done - if you can find last two to three years of records from that shop- you are probably doing pretty good. Looking at things like if tires all match and are decent brand - and if everything is functional - gives you some idea of how seriously po took maintenance ...and make sure the ppi shop pulls oil filter for you and inspects for debris .. Not a guarantee , but cheap and easy extra inspection step that is often missed ...

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I would insist upon that being the 1st step & the last if metal is found! Foolish to continue a PPI if the critical 1st step fails!

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Yea, I guess I get the security thing. If you're selling the car yourself the buyer pretty much knows your info anyway so probably not that big of an issue but who knows what happens with it afterward. If I was trading it in or seller to a dealer then I'd probably think twice about giving them the papers. I was surprised when I bought my car the seller even gave me the purchase contract which seemed too much information to be giving.

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They would know my current address, phone number, and likely email (the last two can be obfuscated). With almost 16 years of records they would have access to previous addresses, phone numbers, etc... And as you say, where do the records go from there as the car is sold on? If I only had it a couple years I might be willing to hand it off as it wouldn't be too much trouble to redact it as Dennis suggested, but the minimal difference in sale value isn't worth the effort here

Surprised more people don't keep them as especially for a car like these it's an important part of the selling/buying experience. Even though I bought mine at a dealer they managed to keep the complete records and gave them to me when I bought the car. It even included the original invoice and window sticker! To this day, even after selling my old 944 almost seven years ago, I still have all of my maintenance receipts. I've kept them thinking maybe the new owner will reach out here on Rennlist and ask for them. But nothing yet since I traded it in and it probably ended up on the auction block.

I think the best chance of getting complete records is to buy from a private owner. Most dealers don't seem to want the records. The few times I have sold a car to a dealer, they never asked for the service records even though I had them. I think third party dealers don't want to know the history and don't want to pass it along. It may be different for a dealer that specializes in used Porsches, but for mainstream dealers, it doesn't seem like they ever have records.

If you are pretty good with the wrench, service history is not really that important. It's nice to have to smile how much $$$ the PO spent on fixing the car but at the end, if something breaks and you know how to fix it, the records don't really matter.......at least not to me. Now get, it can be a selling feature to average car buyers.

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I want to know. Did the previous owner change the oil every 20,000 miles or every 5000? Is that the second fuel filter this car has ever seen or is it the third or fourth? How much money he spent? I hope he wasn't a tight-wad. I'm pretty handy with a wrench yet I also keep all receipts and a list of maintenance performed with mileage and dates. I'm the kind of owner I'd like to purchase a car from.

I was fortunate when I purchased my '04 C2 Cab, almost 3 years ago. Took it for a test drive, visually well cared for, and Carfax noted 2 owners and history of service from dealership where car was originally purchased. Did not do a PPI - car very clean, no leaks, good power, tight suspension and good price. After purchase, contacted selling/servicing dealership and,when offered proof of ownership, they sent me all records of service, etc. Discovered PO leased vehicle for 3 years then bought the car so, only 1 owner prior to me. Service records showed car was very well cared for. Like I mentioned, very fortunate result for me.

20,000 miles on mobil 1 ? Shouldn't be a problem

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Well and it's not like some of the poor service stuff wouldn't show at this age anyway. All I'd really want to know is if the car was taken care of and some of the major items done. Past that I'll start a new history going forward.

Along with keeping a detailed spread sheet and every receipt for all the work done on the car I get a Blackstone Oil Analysis every time I do an oil change. To me the oil analysis is the most important component of service history and the current engine condition. I would think on a NA car this would be a strong selling point as long as the results are good.

Just as a point discussion. I just traded in my E350 Cab on a C4S cab at Porsche of Chattanooga. They did not want the service invoices because my personal info was on them. Paranoia is everywhere. Rightfully so in some cases.

I got nothing when I bought my car. It was a small dealer lot. I told him I was going to do the inspection myself, at my shop and would take about 4 hours. He made the car avail, I checked what I wanted to check in the 4 hours, and it passed. The only thing I missed on the inspection was a worn front trans mount, and I can live with myself. Caveat: If you don't know what you are doing, wait for a car with full history, and pay for a good PPI.