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YOUR RESEARCHMichelin Pilot Super Sports Cold (30f) Temps
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when there was ice and/or snow
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The only time it ever had an issue is when there was ice and/or snow.
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Suggestion
-Given P Cars eat expensive tires - summer or winter - , if I run the winter tires 6 months of the year, I'll be distributing the mileage across 2 sets of tires and spending a similar amount on tires in the long run (with some minimal extra cost for the faster wearing soft winter tires)
Leading evidence: 'when there was ice and/or snow' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'when there was ice and/or snow' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Run (with some minimal extra cost' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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I run these tires on my C4S, runthem on a 350 vert, & on a lexus IS awd.
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I ran the Toyo T1S on my Toyota MR2 Turbo for a few seasons throughout the winter in the city no problem.
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Phil - Can I use your "get out of jail free card" ...
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A summer tire can be used in the winter in snow and ice, and a winter tire can be used on a 100 degree F race track.
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Run (with some minimal extra cost
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Suggestion
-Given P Cars eat expensive tires - summer or winter - , if I run the winter tires 6 months of the year, I'll be distributing the mileage across 2 sets of tires and spending a similar amount on tires in the long run (with some minimal extra cost for the faster wearing soft winter tires)
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I am still kind of up in the air about driving ( '04 996 C4S) on dry (no ice/snow) roads on Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires in cold temps - say 30f.
I have read on a few sites - that it is OK to drive them (MPSS) on
dry
- and cold roads. I should add that I have no plans on going out on snowy/ice cover roads but if it is a nice sunny day and I am going to drive at the posted speed limits - am I still going to be in "danger"???
Don't use the speed limit as a guide. Drive it at what you feel is safe. My brother has a C4 with summer tires and be drive it through the Rockies in February (the roads were bone dry). Just use common sense and you'll be fine. Keep in mind that summer tires get pretty hard in the cold so just drive like a normal human being and you'll be fine.
^^^^Agree with Imo000. Your summer tires will be rock hard but you can still drive on them with no worries. Obviously the grip will be minimal. One thing I learned is that tires make a huge difference, winter or summer.
My experience with summer tires in winter is quite extensive, as our winters are mild in Vancouver.
I ran the Toyo T1S on my Toyota MR2 Turbo for a few seasons throughout the winter in the city no problem. The only time it ever had an issue is when there was ice and/or snow. I would still continue to use caution if you are sure the roads are dry.
I once went to Seattle to hop on the flight to Los Angeles, came back, it snowed, and it took me a good 6 hours to drive from Seattle back to Vancouver on summer tires. Was it wise? No. Was I prepared? No. Did I deserve to die? Yes.
I've been driving mine around in 35-45F temps on PS2s and they are fine, just remind yourself that grip is minimal and drive accordingly.
Mine tend to thump a bit until I get about 20 miles on them and they warm a bit, other than that I'm enjoying the winter bonus time before the roads are salted.
Our C4 has only had PS2s on it since the factory Conti garbage wore out and it's now starting it's 15th winter. It's been driven in freezing rain, snow, sleet, barely freezing, near zero, dry, wet, ice, whatever.
They aren't the best option if you have the space for a spare set of wheels/tires, but they'll do. As Imo said, common sense is key. You can't run it out and throw it into corners like you can when it's nice and warm, but normal driving will be fine.
I would suggest finding yourself a parking lot or somewhere else where you won't hit anything and test them out so your know how they are going to react under sudden direction changes and braking.
The only problem I've ever had is when I got caught out in an heavier than expected snow storm and didn't leave early enough once it was clear it was bad. Once it's deep enough that the bumper becomes a snowplow you're boned and I doubt winter tires are gonna help at that point.
Thanks to this thread, I now know that operating summer tires in the winter is 26% more dangerous than unprotected sex with a school of syphilitic piranha. Especially in Chicago.
Note that flat-spotting can occur during both activities.
I agree with pretty much everything you've seen here already. As a general rule, I don't mind driving in the cold or the wet, just try to avoid situations where we've got both (my DD is a 4 runner, so not a big deal). Like others have said, just use some common sense and you'll be fine.
R
I just went through this on my morning drive to work today.
My garage was at around 58 degrees when I left but then on the road it was about 28.
I took it easy until I hit the highway about 15 minutes into my commute. Car felt fine but I knew that I needed to be careful given the lower temperatures.
I do know some have had very different experiences but I think it's one of those "feel your way through it" type of scenarios.
30f is -1 Celsius?
wow....some dangerous suggestions being made.
no, the mpss is not suitable for that cold. buy the right tire for the conditions. accidents happen in a split second, tires are your most important peice of safety equipment. don't be that guy.
Not going to make a habit of it but took mine out mid december on my bday with Extreme Contact DW tires. Cold (near freezing) dry pavement it was fine, however, they don't have any traction in frost or anything slippery, tread just isn't designed for it. I did have a few fun times on a bridge in the morning last spring when it was frosty, nothing really scary, just unexpected.
Easy enough to try and power slide it and see what happens in different conditions.
OK, since some continue to espouse useless crap instead of facts, here it is straight from the manufacture's info:
You other clowns can post your stupid acronyms, etc. but when your wrong, your wrong. Also, I was only speaking from my experience with PS2's in cold temps.
Here's how you can find your limits:
Try to take a 90-degree turn in "spirited driving" mode, eg. 35-mph from Wacker onto Michigan. Front tires will slide (this is bad, so be careful).
Next take that same turn at a reasonable speed, say 15-mph, and you will find your grip.
I agree with you too. All it takes is one fast pull on the wheel avoiding something or a little blip and your *** is grass. Last year about this time a RLister in Milwaukee found out the hard way with a nice Aero in a tunnel.
I live in Vancouver where it gets cold but seldom snows. For a couple of weeks I ran my summers in temps below 7C and I can't say I noticed any loss in traction when accelerating, braking or cornering. That being said, I still had concerns:
-The provincial insurance corporation that provides auto insurance up here states, while you won't automatically be considered at fault for having an accident while running summers in winter and it does not invalidate your insurance, it can affect the determination of fault for an accident if it is determined your summer tires may have played a factor in the accident. Being more than 50% at fault for an accident could dramatically affect the cost of my annual insurance on my vehicle which would definitely cover the cost of the new tires following an accident.
-I really like my Porsche� I'd rather not make a mess of her by not being able to stop if someone does something stupid in front of me. I watched a great video where they compared wet traction between identical vehicles - one with summers and the other with winters� the summer clad car was still doing 20mph at the distance the winter clad car had already stopped. That would make some mess of my nice car. Check out this video starting at about the 3 min mark.
Winter Tyres v Summer Tyres: the Truth! - Auto Express - YouTube
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-Given P Cars eat expensive tires - summer or winter - , if I run the winter tires 6 months of the year, I'll be distributing the mileage across 2 sets of tires and spending a similar amount on tires in the long run (with some minimal extra cost for the faster wearing soft winter tires)
Ultimately, I decided to spring for the winter wheels/tires.
Krazy - er, crazy - nothing about them flat-spotting when parked during winter? How could this be?
Since you couldn't have put more than 200 miles on your 996 when you owned it, how much time could you possibly have logged running PS2's in the cold? 26 seconds?
Keep in mind that this is being discussed for a 4S which implies PSM. Between that and the AWD system, it is more forgiving. Not a license to act like a ****, but safe under reasonable driving.
I wouldn't, however, run a RWD car on summers in such conditions outside of an extreme emergency. Much easier to break traction including pissing off PSM regularly.
I've seen graphs like this on the internet. If it's mid 40s and dry, I'll venture out with the MPSSs, but drive conservatively, especially until ties come up to temp/pressure. If it's wet, snow, etc. No way. Ditto if it's low 40s or below, dry or not. You can drive as conservatively as you wish, it's the other maniacs on the road you need to worry about. I gather you live in Chicago, so with extended cold periods, I'd invest in dedicated winter tires if it's at all possible. Just my 2 cents...T
Agreed C4 and C4S's do great with less desirable conditions but the OP is in Chicago. Lake affect snow and ice can occur in a blink of an eye there. I'd be prepared. Do remember a guy named Larry? He drove his 996 from the fast lane to the slow lane while hitting a snow plow.....totaled his car but the bright side was his insurance gave him enough to buy a 996TT. Talk about turning a pigs ear into a purse. He was from Chicago too.
Any tire can be used in any conditions. A summer tire can be used in the winter in snow and ice, and a winter tire can be used on a 100 degree F race track. They are all round. They will roll. That being said, the laws of physics do apply to Porsches. The guy with winter tires on the race track probably won't be posting the best lap times.
It ultimately comes down to your tolerance for risk. The statistics on various tires and their performance in different conditions are readily available. There are also numerous stories from people who have driven across the frozen tundra on summer rubber and had no problems at all. You have to decide what you are willing to risk. Some people drive on dry pavement in the winter with summer tires. They are careful, and they don't have any problems. Some people don't feel that it's worth the risk, so they get proper winter tires for winter conditions. Driving on winter tires in the winter is no guarantee that you won't wreck your Porsche, it just lowers your risk a little bit.
Personally, I want my Porsche to perform as well as possible when I drive it. Therefore, I put tires on it that are appropriate for the conditions. To me, there is too much risk in trying to skimp and save a few bucks by leaving my summer tires on the car.
I think the thing that I find most challenging with this discussion is that this decision can dramatically impact others besides the owner of the car in question. If you are driving in the winter with summer tires and your crash your car into another car, then you've involved somebody else. That one bothers me. I see this regularly in Colorado in the winter. It's especially bad with owners of AWD or 4WD vehicles who believe that this somehow makes them immune to the laws of physics. Most of the cars that I see in the ditch or in wrecks in winter conditions are Range Rovers or Jeeps. I saw two of them today on I-70.
I went for a hike today on a muddy, icy trail. I wore hiking boots with a big, knobby tread. Could I have made it in sneakers? Probably. Buy my risk of falling would have dramatically increased. Why take the chance?
If I had a C4S that was driven regularly in a northern climate I would probably run an all-season performance tire like a Conti DWS during the winter, swapping them out for summer tires when the season changes. If I lived somewhere cold and wintery enough to require snow tires, I would park the car for the winter and drive an AWD SUV for the increase in traction and ground clearance. I also wouldn't want to track all the wet yuck of that kind of winter into my Porsche.
What I would not do: keep driving on summer tires in a cold, northern winter.
I'm an avid user of winter tires going back many many years to my first car, having said that the 996 is my first without them. Although the car is tucked away for the winter if we get a clear dry day it will be on the road.
I'm willing to bet the 996 on PS2's will out brake/maneuver our 4Runner on snows on a dry road regardless of how cold the temps.
I also live in Vancouver , and after a trip up to Whistler last year , I've now got a set of tire rack cup IV wheels and Dunlop winter sports for winter .
Driving in the snow this morning , I'm very glad I bought them and would reccomend winter tires and rims to anyone . It keeps the summer wheels nice too.
It's worth it for the improved stopping distance alone .
And a second hand set of 17 inch 996 rims are dirt cheap the tires not that bad . I know a few 997 owners who run those in winter
FWIW, the Conti Supersports on my CLA45 flat spotted in the office parking lot today. My C4S is in the garage for the Winter. It was 29F...the first cold day we've really had this year. Snows go on the Merc tomorrow. Roads were dry but I took the drive home at a much slower pace than normal. Grip is noticeably less below 40F when using Summer tires.
-Eric
I run these tires on my C4S, runthem on a 350 vert, & on a lexus IS awd. these are my "lapping" tires. arrive and drive. I love these tires.
as soon as it's consistently below 10 Celsius, I notice the grip disappearing and that's my queue to move to the winters. these tires are NOT meant to be driven in the cold at all and it is dangerous to do so. all awd will do for you with these tires is make sure you go further in the ditch.
Yea Right - "Try to take a 90-degree turn in "spirited driving" mode, eg. 35-mph from Wacker onto Michigan"
Phil - Can I use your "get out of jail free card" ...
Here in the mid-south it doesn't make financial sense to buy winter tires. We get a handful of really cold dry days. On days where there is precipitation I just stay home and keep the car in the garage.
It was 23 degrees this morning so I took it easy until I felt my tires were up to decent operating temperatures. They felt fine but I do remember years ago in my 944 the tires feeling like they were made out of stone on a really cold day. They would spin even with the slightest throttle input so I headed home as soon as I can that afternoon. But the 996 has more weight in the back so that likely helps with grip as well.
So most are in agreement with not using summer tires in winter but I don't see the abuse posters shouting "GTFO" at everyone else. How typical and hypocritical of you. Not surprised at all.
KK, you know you have a history here, but on this point I agree. As long as you are back to being helpful again people need to lay off.
All bets are off if you go back to your old ways of screaming about how the 996 is the worst car in the world
Aaaaaalrighty then!!!! Everyone GTFO!!
The OP asked if he can take his car out in the winter for a short stroll on his summer tires when the pavement is dry. The bottom line it, YES, as long as he doesn't drive like a maniac. The car will not go into a spin from a flick of a wrist either, you need to push it pretty hard for that to happen. All this arguing about what the summer tires are meant for is useless, the OP wasn't looking for that info.
