Changing out those old motor mounts well worth it

Like they say, it ain't the miles, it's the years. My'02 only has 48k miles on it, but I've noticed the passenger seat shaking for at least 2 years and 6k+ miles ago. Until I read a bunch of motor mount threads here, I just assumed it was normal. Then I noticed the drivers side tail pipe was lower than the passenger side, and it clicked. Turns out both motor mounts had sagged a lot and I FINALLY drove it today after changing out the water pump, T-stat, AOS, oil filler tube, oil cooler o-rings (another very worthwhile check and change, pics to follow on a different thread), serp belt, and the motor mounts (Rein) from Pelican. Wow, what a difference. Night and day. Shifting is much easier, vibration is GONE, tailpipes are almost exactly even, and got sucked up at least 1/2" higher. Really guys, a very easy $180 1 hour R&R if you're doing nothing else, and the results are very, very worth while. (nothing like the hell of the water pump and AOS, but had I not done it myself, I wouldn't have known the coolant o-rings were shot on the oil cooler) Transformed would be an over statement (PSS9s or 10s transforms the car), but I was fairly shocked at the improvements. Still have to do some spirited driving but it can only get better.

Did you do anything special on the top bolts? I didn't notice much difference after doing it.

Interesting, my car has the EXACT same symptoms. Passenger seat with the shakes (worse if I am on the brakes stopped at a light vs. not on the brakes) and the lower driver side exhaust. '02 with 66k on the chassis, 8k on the engine. I assume they would have reused the mounts when installing the new engine. Will probably look into this then, thanks!

Completely agree that fresh mounts can make a big difference. The thing is they go bad slowly and you never realize it. Like some are suggesting...go and change them out. It really is easy.

I'm considering the RS motor mounts...

Wevo yellow pillows.

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Yes, I took pics also, and mine were identical to what KrazyK posted, with the drivers side worse and canted. I did nothing to the top bolts except torque them. Walter, mine was exactly the same as you describe, far more noticeable stopped at a stop light! It was so irritating. Just do it, you will not regret it. Unless you track the car, I doubt it's worth the extra cost to go with semi solids except for bragging rights and a little more NVH. (but that may just be my wallet talking. I spent over $900 just in parts doing all this. An extra $200 for the small possible improvement just didn't seem worth it). Personally, if the people that put the semi's on had just put new regular ones on, I think they would have been just as impressed, if their originals were as unknowingly bad as mine. When they reported that there were all the improvements I described, but a bit more NVH and cabin noise, I decided not to go that route. By the way, according to Pelican, the only "best" (Rein) standard motor mounts they carry are the stiffer turbo ones. If you want the softer non turbos, they have a cheaper, non-OE brand. I got the Reins, and went with "TT" part numbers) My car has only seen a track twice, and both times before I had done all the improvements (PSS9s, ROW ARBs, PS2s, etc. etc) so now I'm jonesing to try her out again next year. I have to add, that it is much easier and faster to do this if you have the right lifting apparatus. If you have to use just jack and stands, etc, it takes longer to get the car in the air than to change the mounts. I bought an EZCarlift a few years back during their first huge group buy and only paid $1275. Man, I love that thng. Saved me hours (more) of frustration during the last 2 weekends with all this work. Pics to follow.

how did you see the oil cooler o ring problem, those are pretty far from the water pump no ? where are they located ? I am not sure I know what is the oil cooler... are you talking about the AOS ?

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The oil cooler is on the right bank of the engine under the intake...did you remove the entire intake to do the AOS? The oil cooler is definitely not a "while you are in there" item. Would you elaborate a bit, please? Thanks for the comments about the engine mounts. You have convinced me that I should do mine sooner rather than later. Cheers, TomF

OK, but only because you asked..LOL. The oil cooler is located roughly in the same place as the AOS, but on the other (mirror) side. A little more inboard, like where the vacuum storage container is on the left side. From under the car, if you look on the opposite side from where you see the AOS, but the same "way" you will see it. While I was under there I saw what looked like a bubble of red at the seal area where the cooler meets the engine. When I touched it, it was crusty, and filled with liquid coolant! I took out the left intake manifold, the TB, and both cross runners to clean them out and to replace the AOS, which I was doing preemptively. ( No sign of a real issue, but the area around the AOS was fairly oily/dirty, so I suspected maybe the oil vapor inlet to the AOS was causing some of it. and it is 11 years old, so I took the plunge in to hell. ) Once you do that, the whole left side of the oil cooler is staring right at you. The right hand bolts are under the right hand manifold so that has to come out to get to them. To get that out you have to take the PS reservoir off. I did not touch the AC at all. I'm not at a computer that I can download the pics I took, but suffice to say the webs on top of that side were all filled with crusty coolant. If you broke the crust, there was wet coolant underneath there too. It seemed obvious to me that the o-rings on the coolant side were leaking under pressure/temp, not constantly, but had not breached the oil o-rings. I always had a super slow loss of coolant, that I could never find. Since I only drive maybe 3k miles a year, I though it was just maybe a faulty expansion cap (which I replaced this go around with a -04). BTW, the right hand manifold is a total walk in the park compared to the left. I'll download pics later. I had to order new o-rings and 3 more intake manifold gaskets. If you do this, have a big absorbent towel that you can toss right there next to the oil cooler. Try to lift it straight up, do not tip it in any direction, as that causes huge amounts of coolant and oil to run out. As fast as you can slam the towel under the oil cooler then bring it where you can drain it. If you constantly tip it at angles and then return it to horizontal, it all drains out eventually. I inspected the insides through the openings and all was shiny and clean. The coolant o-rings were shot, quite crusty on both sides, and there was a lot of wettish dried coolant stuck to the under side of the cooler. The oil ones still looked good, but of course I replaced all four, and thoroughly cleaned the cooler bottom, O-ring surfaces, and the top of the engine. I will do a periodic inspection now that I know where to look for the issue. It's doable to see with inspection mirrors. When I ran my Airlift air removal tool to fill the coolant system back up, it held a vacuum no problem, so I have a high degree of confidence that I dodged a bullet, and it is fixed, but really, only time will tell.

Does the transmission mount wear out as well? Would it be wise to change it to complete the mounting of the drivetrain?

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Trans mounts definitely wear out, you can usually see cracking in the rubber mount. Unfortunately they're a pain to remove as they have to be pressed out. I don't think it's possible to do that in the car but maybe someone has? The OEM replacement is a 997 part which is allegedly stronger, but I would just get the Wevo Tranny mount and be done with it.... As for motor mounts, I race on those TT mounts and they work great and have lasted over 2 years now. Again the Wevo's or RS's are stiffer, but unnecessary....

I lot of people want to go with a stiffer mount all becasue "thats what the race guys use". This is a bad idea. The stiffer mounts trip the knock sensor and retard the spark resulting in a loss of power. Remember a car built for the track prolly has most the emission items removed or disabled. Just cuz "the race guys" use it doesnt mean its best for the road.

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Please elaborate.....

Ok, here are some of the pics. The first shows the mess as found with the oil cooler still in place, at one of the "wet" corners. All coolant, but this is the oil side. I was worried. It looked like this, but in varying degrees of dried out at all 4 corners. The second shows the clear shot of the cooler with the manifold still in place. In the background you can see the 1/4" drive with 6" extension on it with a 1/4" drive 10mm socket on the rear most manifold bolt. Third is the manifold side of the cooler with it removed. Dried coolant everywhere. Note there was absolutely no indication of a problem except the VERY slow loss of coolant. Oil and coolant all look great. BTW, though the intakes look filthy, they literally just wiped shiny clean with a paper towel, all the was to the valve stems. I did all 6. Good for 10HP at least! Fourth is everything on top removed. PLenty of room to work, you'd think. Still had trouble cleaning out all the webs because.... Of the fifth pic. This is the mess after you remove the cooler, even with a towel and knowing what might happen. Note the huge chunks of totally dried coolant solids. About an hour to clean and vacuum it as good as I could get it. Still stained reddish, but the webs are empty now, and I hope they stay that way. Final pic is Happy Engine all back together.

nice job, how bad was it to remove the intake manifold screws ? I heard they are a bitch to remove ?

The key is to fix the engine in place and lift the rest of the body to get the extra 2-3 inches. Or drop the engine completely. The right hand manifold is easy, 6 10mm bolts, easily removed with a 1/4" drive and socket. The first 5 on the left hand one are similar, but the last one against the AOS, is really a royal PITA. And to make matters worse, Porsche changed the new AOS to make that last bolt even harder to get in. I took it out with the 1/4" socket, but it was not possible to replace it that way. I even Dremeled off the unused plastic upside down "U" that was added for no known reason, but there was NO way any socket could fit in there. It is just too tight between the intake runner and the AOS, with barely any room above the bolt head. I was able to thread the bolt in by finger tip enough so that I could get a ratcheting closed end wrench in there and in 1/8 rotational increments get it snugged up. Seriously a horrible job with the new AOS in the MKIIs. Just one friggin bolt.

Very interesting. Thanks very much for posting. Cheers, Tom

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I guess that's theoretically possible, if you went to solid mounts. But it wasn't my experience with the RS mounts. Combined with a short shift kit, I loved the more lively feeling of the car and the rifle bolt shifts. The RS mounts are forgiving enough that upgrading the transmission mount, too, for example, isn't necessary. It's my understanding that knock sensors are little piezo electric microphones that respond to the sound of pre-detonation, not vibration. If the RS mounts caused that kind of problem, then so would pretty much every inch of pavement around here.

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I used to think that as well but now I'm glad I upgraded. Part of the reason why I pulled the trigger was the cost(diy, minimal cash and risk) but partly due to the fact that I replaced my wife's BMW engine mounts recently with upgraded ones and felt a very nice improvement. Then I came across a DIY for poly mounts and figured I wouldn't really have nothing to lose for under $50. I'm glad I did that. These are the things I've noticed and remember, I recently replaced my 100k oem engine mounts with new oem turbo mounts so it's not like this comparison is comparing against broken mounts. With the poly's, I've noticed more positive shift engagement, better braking and acceleration feel allowing me to better modulate through the apex and get on the gas earlier with more confidence. The NVH is barely noticeable from before except when the temps are below 40deg, then it feels a bit more noticeable but not objectionable or harsh by any means. Now that I've experienced the advantages(specifically on the 996 car), I wouldn't mind paying extra for some ready made aftermarket ones if my current mounts were old.

Interesting. Where did you read about the DIY poly solution? I'd like to know how they unstretched the old mounts to make the new one. Would you say the change from 100k old ones to turbo mounts was more significant that from turbo to DIY ones?

many people talk about the turbo mounts, it would be nice for someone to post the parts# and DIY I have purchased the RS motor mount convertion kit from sun coast, it comes with a bunch of screws and no instruction. if someone can point to a DIY that would be cool I mean the kit comes with like 10 screws I thought there was only 3 on each mount... no ?

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DIY Here... I barely noticed any difference going from my 100k mounts to the turbo ones. FWIW, I didn't change the original mounts because it was failing. I just changed it figuring it had a lot of miles on them and heard turbo mounts were suppose to be firmer. I did however notice quite a bit of difference going from turbo mounts to these diy's. I'm a happy camper at under $50 and the best mod I've done in terms of cost/performance, unless you're counting pumpkin mod which is cheaper and adds more HP.

Parts Geek are showing the Corteco mounts that they state are OEM for the Turbo & GT2 for under $90 (cant remember the exact price). Are these firmer/different then to the standard C2 mounts, and more important do they fit a C2?

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They definitely fit C2 but not sure if the Corteco's are any stiffer. IIRC, some of the cheaper aftermarket mounts didn't have the liquid filling in them making them more stiff but can't remember if it was the Corteco's or not.

Acording to Pelican, the Corteco and Reins are the exact same ones, "turbo" stiffness, and wrk fine on the C2. How much stiffer they are is anyones guess. They have a different part number (last 2 digits) from the standard, but they are the only ones supplied, so I suspect the differences are slight. Alpine, did you compare your old 100k mounts with the new turbo ones and see any visual difference? Like I mentioned, my old ones were easily stretched/collapsed an added 1/2" (see pic in first post). I may take my old ones and do the same DIY and give it a try for effect.

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There were no visual differences I could see between my original and turbo. I tried to make sense of the part numbers which were a bit ambiguous.

Interesting. I wonder if yours could have already been replaced by a PO? I don't see how they could not be collapsed at 100k miles on an older car. Liek I mentioned, night and day difference between mine, and I only had like 45k miles on them on an '02. When you built your DIY ones, did you cut the casting in half like he showed, or was that for effect to show how it is built? Did you only pour the PU into the top, of was it a 2 part process? In the cut away, he shows PU both under and in/over the original rubber. It's a bit confusing.

Also where do you buy the PU from?

Thanks Perry in Va! Excellent stuff on engine mounts and more. Learned much from you on this topic! Good learning that Corteco,s and Rein,s are basically the same at the Pelican website as I could not find the Rein's recently on that same website. On the topic of C2 vs Turbo engine mounts, Pelican offers the following numbers: C2 : 993-375-049-08-M270; and Turbo : 993-375-049-09-M270. Differing by only 1 digit, should I assume they are <form, fit and function> with each other, with the turbo mounts being slightly more rigid, given the Turbo engine is a bit more heavy (my assumption)? My C2 is approaching 90k miles so I take for granted that it is time for me to pull the trigger on these 13-yr-old mounts. Thanks guys! Martin

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What will happen if you order the Corteco TT mounts from Pelican, is you will get Reins with an -08 number. That's what I did, and called them to tell them they sent me the wrong ones, and spoke to tech support, and after a few calls, they told me the ONLY mount they carry, whether for Turbo or C2 is the same Rein mount, their online catalog has not been updated, with no immediate plans to. Let us know your impression of the difference.

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I'm a big believer in this as a cheap and High Value upgrade. Last year when I bought my X73 suspension, it came with new RS mounts. I swapped them out a few weeks before I had the actual suspension installed and couldn't believe the difference the mounts alone made.

Where did you fiind that multi piece tranny mount? Never seen that before!

Thanks Perry! Will comment whenever I get to do this. Martin

The turbo mounts made my 996 noticeably faster, and my IMS bearing rattling noise totally disappeared. Highly recommended.

I finally got to put a few miles on the car today, and the impression only got better. I don't understand how the clutch engages so much better/smoother/predictable just because of the mounts. Like others have commented, there is also definitely a noticeable lack of weight shift now when changing turn directions, like the car is riding flatter with stiffer ARBs. Really grin inducing, between that, the better clutch engagment and less notchy shifting through the gates. Who da thunk it?

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That's Wevo's semi sollid mount as shown here: http://www.tarett.com/items/996-997-...unt-detail.htm Installing the new mount is easy. It's removing the old mount that's difficult as it requires a press of some sort......

Ordered a set of OEM motor mounts from Pellican. Can't hurt to replace them!

Can someone spell out the process of replacing the old mounts with new stock mounts? Do I have to put the car on 4 stands? Can I just raise the rear? Which bolts do I un-do first after supporting the engine?

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All you need is a jack and a piece of 2x4 to support the engine via the oil pan and some hand tools to remove the airbox and unbolt the couple bolts holding on the air pump on the drivers side. No need to disconnect it. Just undo the bolts and swing it out of the way. Then start removing the engine mount bolts from bottom and top. Installing the new mounts can be a bit fussy if you don't have the engine lined up perfectly with the chassis so you might have to wiggle the engine a bit for the new engine mount bottom bolt to slide through the chassis. I've done this a few times now where I got it under 15 min but even for my first time, I found it to be easy.

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Cool tips, thanks! Can I jack/support the engine under the point everyone likes to use to lift the rear of the car? Are the bottom bolts reachable without putting the car up on stands?

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You need the jackstands...it just gives you more room. It really is a breeze to change these out. But take your time. Have fun

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This has been debated many times in the past and a can of worms I don't want to open. I was comfortable just using a longer piece of 2x4 to put on the oil pan as I wasn't really jacking anything but merely just supporting it for a short time. You should do what makes you comfortable. Edit: yes they are reachable without putting on jack stands. Just need to maneuver a longer socket extension between some things.

I may roll the car onto some 2x4's at the end of my garage entrance - that works for oil changes. Gives me a little extra room without having to jack up the car.

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IMHO, you don't even really need to do that. There is more than ample room to get to the bottom bolts, unless you are 6'9" and have long arms and/or your slammed to GT3-RS specs. But it certainly can't hurt if you feel more comfortable that way.

Awesome! Saves me plenty of time to not jack up the car! Ill give it a go this weekend.

Good luck and report back.

Yes, I agree with Pete, it is easier to SEE what you have to do, if the back is up a bit. Even backing up on to the 2x4s is helpful. I would support the engine at that block that everyone uses to jack it, rather than the oil pan, but I'm **** about that stuff, since I had a cracked oil pan from the PO. Just use the jack to lift the engine like 1/4", thats all. One big 18mm socketed nut (63ft-lb torque) under the car, and 2 -13mm socketed bolts on the engine compartment side (25ft-lb???, better check, not as critical, tho) and the mount just lifts right out. I needed a universal and extensions to easily do the top bolts. Just a 6" extension for the bottom ones makes it easier. Do one at a time, and engine can't shift. Fast and easy, like they said.

I'll try and take some shots comparing the old mounts with the new ones. I'm hoping the old ones are shot!

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Most likely the only thing you'll notice visually is that one of the mounts will probably look a bit squished compared to the new ones. This seems to be pretty common. Either way your car should ride better if your old ones were worn out.

Andy, could you measure the new mount height vs your old ones please, as they seem to sag with age. I plan on doing the DIY semi solid mounts and have purchased off fleabay some old mounts, but I want to make sure I set the height of the mount correctly before I pour in the PU. Thanks

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So, you need the NEW mount height, if you are setting the height, right?

Yes please

Job done! Anyone who has NOT done their mounts should! My car only has 25k miles, but after 12 years, my mounts were tired to say the least. I didn't know what to measure Ross, so I took a shot next to the tape measure. IMG_1253_zps1b5cfe32.jpg IMG_1254_zpse971b03c.jpg I took the car out after installing the new mounts: 1) Way smoother motor, less vibration, feels like a different car! 2) Better shifting! Clutch engages much smoother, with less chatter. 3) Car feels faster, acceleration is smoother! Best $180 upgrade you can do! Just have a universal drive head, and a 6" extension, to reach the 18mm bolt (NOT 17mm Perry) between the exhaust pipes, etc. You also need the universal drive to reach the driver side top rear 13mm bolt.

Hey I have bought the RS mount kit form suncoast but I have many screws in there, can anybody explain to me what they are for ? I thought there would be for each mount: - 1 screw going into the middle of the mount toward the motor support - 2 screws going on the mount side to fix it to the chassis But in that kit, it seems I have double of what I need. Some look silver, the other set look more like nickel/gold. I wonder if there is a "choice" to be made or something help

Andy, Thanks for the pics, it looks like the bolt end is 5 1/2 inches from the mount base, can anyone confirm that?

Ouch, sorry Andy, I was going by memory, yes, 18mm. I'll change that right now. But was I right? Awesome difference in clutch engagement...way too smoother for such a little change, wasn't it!? Mine looked exactly like yours, check the first posts.

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No worries, just an excuse for me to buy that full metric deep socket set at Sears! Yeah, it's really amazing how much better the car drives with the motor NOT sloshing around on old mounts! Wish I did it 5 years ago.

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Hmmm. I just used the original nuts and screws, not sure why you have so many there? I would remove your old ones and it will probably make more sense as to which screw goes where.

Thought I'd chime in on this one as well. I just changed my mounts last night, and HOLY CRAP WHAT A DIFFERENCE. I've got a '99, that had the original mounts, and I was getting a noticeable vibration at idle, as well as the typical slightly lower exhaust pipe as well as passenger seat vibrating. You DEFINITELY want an 18MM Deep Socket as well as a 6" extension for your socket, and a torque wrench to torque the bolts to the right spec. Once you have all of that (I had it on ramps to change them out) it was only about15- 20 minutes a side, doing it leisurely. I ordered mine from Pelican, and received the REIN version, even though they say Corteco on their site. Someone else had mentioned Pelican had yet to update their site, but the REIN's worked great, so I went ahead and got them. After putting them in, once I started the car to move it off the ramps I could immediately tell the difference, way less vibration. The old ones definitely had a sag/lean to them. It's a great way to spend $200 and have way less vibration on your 996. Cheers, DS

Yep, like I said, way too much of an improvement from such a simple maintenance item. Far more things affected by the new mounts, than just "holding the engine in place". The difference in shifting, was for me, worth the cost alone. Yes, 18mm deep socket, should have made that clear too! Way too much thread past the nuts for a regular socket.

No worries, it just meant that I got to buy more tools! I totally agree, the shifts are much smoother, the vibration at idle is virtually non-existent, and the ride at speed is MUCH smoother as well (did quite a bit of highway driving yesterday and it was much more pleasant than previous...I should have done this before anything else, but didn't learn about it until around the time you did yours). Cheers, DS

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Invius, did you order the Turbo mounts or other? I guess I will jump on this bandwagon and do this in the near future also.

Hey Steve, I went with the non-turbo mounts. http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/...0%281999-05%29 They say Corteco on their site, but that is not correct as previously noted, you will get REIN mounts. I can't speak to their longevity, but they are fantastic thus far.

Philooo have you installed the RS mounts yet?

Whether you order the Turbo or regular Corteco from Pelican, you get the exact same Reins.

So the Turbo mounts are NOT stiffer?

It would be interesting to see if the Corticos or the Reins are liquid filled and whether they use the same thickness of rubber. As I recalled, I remember reading someone saying some of the cheaper non-oem engine mounts were not liquid filled. I know when I went to oem turbo mounts, I barely noticed anything. I thought it was an "upgrade" but my car might've had original mounts changed out already at some point, hence the reason why there wasn't too much of a difference.

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I just ordered and they offered me both options (Turbo and regular), but they were the same price, $91 each, so I'm sure you are correct. btw, I just spent $500 for plugs, coils, air filters, and engine mounts. You people are killing me

Your telling me this site is costing me a fortune, LOL.

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Although some of my mods has come close to a Mac and Cheese diet, being able experience a combo of constipation, muscle spasms, back aches, little nausea while going around a bend faster than you ever thought while your heart is pounding at 100bpm's is priceless.

I'm glad I found this thread. I just thought it was a lumpy cam at idle. Easy swap, took about 20 minutes and made a huge difference. Would recommend as a routine maintenance item for anyone purchasing a used 996 without documentation of recent replacement. New mount on the left in the photo.

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can anybody chime in as how to install the porsche rs mounts ? I don't really know which screw goes where

Phil, Info I have. Not sure how recent. Parts Information: Part Number Description 964 375 043 81 New/Engine mount (item 1) 999 025 091 02 New/12.7 x 45.5 x 5 mm washer (item 3), qty. 2 per side 901 305 311 00 Disc (item 2), former part number still valid 900 082 118 09 M12 x 1.5 x 125 mm hexagon bolt (item 4), former part number still valid 999 084 215 09 M12 x 1.5 fastening nut (item 5), former part number still valid�Always Replace If performing a first time installation of the new type mount, new 45.5 mm washers (999 025 091 02) should be installed on both sides of the vehicle (Item 3, formerly 34 mm

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Try this link (4th "alternate" view). http://www.suncoastparts.com/product...e=996EXHAUST36

thanks guys that helps I wonder why I did not see those earlier. But still I wonder why they sent me so many screws...

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Thanks forum members !! Yes, well worth it and very EASY. I've only had my '03 C4S for a few thousand miles. I could feel more vibrations in the cabin than I thought I should. I looked at my exhaust outlets and they looked low, so I figured why not. I changed out my mounts and took it for a short ride. The tail pipes are much higher and there feels to be less vibrations. Also, the car just feels good. Mine is a tiptronic.