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THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHDifference between standard and x51 oil sump
Reported or suspected cause
backup engine
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Reported cause
Well it originally designed a a possibility instead of the Mezger engine the X51, it was the backup engine which may have been used in some race series but never did.
Leading evidence: 'backup engine' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'backup engine' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Replace on the 3.4 was retained' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
3.4 and 3.6 sumps are identical, but there are other differences- a lot of the stock stuff that was changed on the 3.4 was retained on the 3.6.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
Nothig the different material used an the shapes of the baffles.
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Suggestion
I decided to replace my standard oil sump with the X51 one and interestingly, it's slightly different than the one from pictures in the first post - seems a bit simplified.
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Suggestion · Original poster
When running a flat engine you will need to scavenge the heads somehow.
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Suggestion
I decided to replace my standard oil sump with the X51 one and interestingly, it's slightly different than the one from pictures in the first post - seems a bit simplified.
Run signuficantly below atmospheric pressure, and due
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Suggestion · Original poster
The differences to a proper dry sump are that the block itself isn't scavenged, so doesn't run signuficantly below atmospheric pressure, and due to the shape of the sump it is not the tall and narrow shape which would be ideal for an oil tank.
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backup engine
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Discussions that report identifying a cause
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Reported cause
Well it originally designed a a possibility instead of the Mezger engine the X51, it was the backup engine which may have been used in some race series but never did.
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15 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
911uk: 1 discussions
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I knew that there was a difference, but I'd never really had a good look at them side-by-side to what it actually is, and how these differences will affect performance. Until now.
Standard sump on the left, x51 on the right. Nothig the different material used an the shapes of the baffles.
At the front of the engine, the x51 is sealed against the crank case with rubber flaps, whilst the standard supm relies on a small riser in the centre of the sump to reduce the space for oil to flow through from one side to the other.
When fitted in an engine block you can see the gaps here.
With the baffles removed from the sump it is easy to see how effective the x51 sealing is. It does a much better job of creating three partitions in the sump. The centre section where the oil from the block mostly returns to, and a pair of side sections where the head scavenges return to.
On the standard sump it is relatively easy for oil to move from one side to the other, with the x51 baffles the oil is much more likely to end up in the centre section. The centre section is also larger capacity.
MC
Interesting how 'home made' the X51 sump looks compared with the production item which show cost control with pressed metal and spot welds and rivets(?)
Yes it is clearly not mass produced by any means. No welding, just rivets, bent bits of aluminium, and nuts and bolts. A very nice design though IMO and a very clear advantage over the standard item. More details in the video here:
MC
Yes. A dry sump is where you use scavenge pumps to remove oil to a tank, then pick up the oil from there to feed to the engine. These engines use a pair of scavenge pumps in the heads to return oil to the sump. The differences to a proper dry sump are that the block itself isn't scavenged, so doesn't run signuficantly below atmospheric pressure, and due to the shape of the sump it is not the tall and narrow shape which would be ideal for an oil tank. The integrated dry sump is a good bit of marketting speak IMO. When running a flat engine you will need to scavenge the heads somehow.
MC
Well it originally designed a a possibility instead of the Mezger engine the X51, it was the backup engine which may have been used in some race series but never did. So the kind of nut and bolt construction makes sense, motorsport has never cared for making it pretty.
I compared the two a few years ago and was going to copy the design for my own sump but never got around to it. It looked a very easy job to replicate with some ally sheet and tin snips.
I decided to replace my standard oil sump with the X51 one and interestingly, it's slightly different than the one from pictures in the first post - seems a bit simplified.
