981 GT4 - long gearing - I love it - Page 2 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Having recently moved from a PDK Cayman R to a 981 GT4 (manual of course as there is no PDK) I was wary of the Porsche bad press around the long gearing. A few weeks in and a daily driver intended purchase I can honestly say that the longer first gear I think makes the car easier and more enjoyable to drive in daily situations. Rather than the traditional rush to get into second gear it seems very happy to run just that bit longer in 1st gear, changing gear at 15mph or so and 4k revs. Entry from standstill into roundabouts with traffic ahead no drama. Finding a space in a car park again seems more of a relaxed affair. Idiots in front pulling off and going slowly, in other cars and second gear I would find myself immediately on their bumper. Not so I am finding in the GT4. So yes of course when driving spiritedly to the red line it all gets a little silly, but on the road and changing at 5k revs it’s all lovely exhaust sounds and more the adequate feeling of acceleration. Maybe it’s just me, but as per the title, I think the long gearing can in many cases actually bring benefits. And I quite like it. Anyone else feel the same ?

no complants here... it's a pleasure to drive and swap gears without hitting the rev limiter

Loved it in my 981 GT4 of 6 years, just sold. Loved it in both my 718 Cayman 2.0, love it in my manual Cayman GTS 4.0. For any of them, great in traffic, and actually for spirited or circuit driving, and on track, 2nd gear feels about right for most hairpins, and if you lowered the gearing much, there would likely be a bit too much torque available mid corner. And while third (or even second ) might feel a bit much for a motorway overtake, definitely gets the cars back up to a reasonable speed at a decent rate of acceleration. Having had 4 cars over 7 1/2 years with that gearing, I should be wearing a T-shirt, or at least a badge to say how much I love it. That's not to say I don't like the PDK in my latest, a GT4 RS. But after all the histrionics, noise, rapid shifts down the box when I wasn't quite expecting them... Getting back into the long gearing of the GTS 4.0 is like comfy slippers in traffic, and an animal I'm used to controlling without thinking too much when I can drive a little more quickly. In brief, +1! Liam

There are always alternatives ... Perfect for narrow country lanes and keeping within speed limits ... the second gear change-up comes at 55mph and 6,500 rpm. The Cup suspension also feels surprisingly GT Porsche like

I find it’s great for road driving and is mostly always in the sweet spot. However coming out of a 30 I find it a bit annoying sometimes

I never really found it to be a problem either. I suppose the only criticism was that if you wanted to use the full rev band on a public road, you’re limited to 1 and 2; max revs in 3 is shifting really rather quickly for the public highway.

I have no complaints, if you're bimbling along there's enough torque to stay in the usual gears for the speeds. But it's quite easy to sit a gear lower than normal and it's not revving too much.

I too have never thought the long gearing was an issue at all in normal road driving or even spirited road driving. In fact your description of driving the car is exactly how I would have put it. I've owned my 981 GT4 for almost 5 years now and never considered the gearing an issue whatsoever. The only time the long gearing becomes an issue (is there really an issue??) is on track where shorter gearing would may be better in order to use more of the gears. No doubt the driving gods on PH, as they think they are, will correct me.

The main instigator of the long gearing b hing-fest, not just with regards to the 981 GT4, but all GT3’s pre 991.2 too, has left the forum (well been banned) hence the lack of debate on what was always a non-topic to anyone with a brain cell count higher than one…

I personally never had a problem gearing on the 981 or 718 GT4 in period. Would it have been more punchy and exciting with shorter individual ratios or final drive…. Probably yes… but for my usage on track it wasn't a consideration for me and nobody has produced any data which shows that this mod alone would have yielded better lap time. On the other end, the gearing allowed for a breadth of ability as a road and track car that could do a long tour without tiring you out. Things have been dramatically changed with 718 RS …. But thats a distinct character shift. Maybe if I was to go back now I may think differently especially to a ‘normal’ PDK. But the manual stands by itself.

Yes I love it (albeit in 981 Spyder).

ChrisW and I have run the shortened gearing for a long time. It makes my 981 a bit more lively, knocks a couple of tenths off 0-60 but at the price of mpg and noise on the motorway. So much so that, now I've got an RS i am planning on going back to the standard gearing. The only reason that i think shorter gearing really makes sense is experiential, the cayman manual box is brilliant, lower gearing means you use a bit it more on road driving!!! Its a great conversion but the GT4s are just fantastic as they are and better value than ever. Of course, the original 981 is far better than 718 ….right ill get my coat! ChrisW any views?

Everybody knows why the GT4 as standard manual is so long geared ... economy and differentiation. The PDK could easily be made shorter geared with its extra 7th gear overdrive ... win win. However, for driver involvement there is a reason why the 911 ST is both shorter geared and has a lightweight flywheel and clutch. What we are talking about here is preferences to which everybody will have their preferences. But, Porsche with the ST and RS models have stamped their flag to the mast ... shorter gearing is faster and more involving. I personally think that the gains on track of shorter gearing were very much circuit dependant ... but for road use there was a clear winner. Now for running around I have my little Renault Twingo 133 Cup ... plenty of gearchanges, driving at the limit without breaking any rules and I think it's a cool thing which is becoming very rare in the current anodyne market. £7k of fun ... and despite its years it is like new with 12000 miles on the clock. They can be found ... MY 2p ... but each to their own.

ChrisW. said: There are always alternatives ... Perfect for narrow country lanes and keeping within speed limits ... the second gear change-up comes at 55mph and 6,500 rpm. The Cup suspension also feels surprisingly GT Porsche like Lovely Chris, but for something with the build integrity of a crisp packet, it weighs a portly 1050 kg. It needs to to go on a diet courtesy of one Mr C Chapman … Gen 1 Peugeot 106 Rallye (it weighs in at a svelte 825kg) Now that’s a hot-hatch pocket rocket

I agree on all but the weight that you propose ... all the Twingo 133 variants were proposed with that weight ... the Cups were lightened and the question is by how much ? Herewith a couple of testers summaries which put it at 980Kg's but ??? I'd love to know In terms of specification, the Twingo is closer to the 106 GT1 ... but a good few years newer and therefore more of an achievement ? In addition, had not Peugeot by 2010 handed the mantle of Best Hot Hatch to Renault ? Edited by ChrisW. on Saturday 2nd November 15:47

155kg heavier than the S1 106 Rallye an achievement? Hmm, not totally convinced Chris.

Apples and oranges

Sometimes I found it ok, like when driving the NC500 at 200 miles a day. But for small bits of pleasure It sometimes felt like I might aswell have been an auto down a B road left in 3rd. Yes some say shift early but I have zero pleasure not using the whole rev range. I do think if my 981 GTS manuals were shorter they would of been more fun. My old M2 Compeition was always up a gear compared to the 981, and you got to use more of that interaction with it, its fun going up and down the box. Horses for courses, nothings perfect.

Slippydiff said: Lovely Chris, but for something with the build integrity of a crisp packet, it weighs a portly 1050 kg. It needs to to go on a diet courtesy of one Mr C Chapman … Gen 1 Peugeot 106 Rallye (it weighs in at a svelte 825kg) Now that’s a hot-hatch pocket rocket Off topic but I have been eyeing that 106 up in Portugal too. So clean vs the ones which have lived in the UK.

Re the gearing, I test drove a GT4 the other day. I’m definitely not a fan of long gearing but wanted to hold my opinion until I had tested a GT4. The gearing is definitely holding it back in terms of experience. I could live with it but with most other cars you can quite easily hit the interesting parts of the rev range, which is kind of the idea with a sports car I would thought. I think it makes the car feel a bit lethargic also.

Drive it a gear lower on the road. Also 1st is a driving gear on the GT4!

I don't think I have ever changed into first without the car being almost stationary ...

It’s a driving gear on the road, tight turns…. But not in the UK… which is a tiny island, with lots of poorly maintained roads, and even poorer driving standards. Edited by TDT on Friday 8th November 20:02

ChrisW. said: I don't think I have ever changed into first without the car being almost stationary ... Have you been up the Grossglockner Pass? I used 1st a few times on the way up, was hilarious.

plynchy said: Have you been up the Grossglockner Pass? I used 1st a few times on the way up, was hilarious. You got it!

Only in a Vauxhall Victor Super ... Reg 62 DUA

Long gearing is not great. A 981 GT4 hits peak torque at 4750 and peak power at 7400 rpm. Between those revolutions is where the sweet spot is. If you’re changing up at 5k revs you’re only just into the fun and will be way off peak power. I think the trick with these long geared manuals is to use 1st as an accelerative gear, not just 2nd & 3rd, but then I imagine one would barely get to peak torque in 3rd before the fun would have to be dialled down. My 997.1 hits a torque peak at 4250 and power peak at 6800. By the time I’ve hit peak torque in 3rd it’s already going too fast for the road.

I think i've only ever used first in anger in the UK launching the car out of the pits at Croft on a charity day earlier this year. Compared to every other car i've owned it's actually a very useable gear and allows a good welly off the line without instantly looking for second. Can be quite good fun on the road too if you keep the revs in the right zone, gives you a good deal of flexibility. In a weird way it reminds me of an old Suzuki Swift GTI my Dad had in '91, which revved to around 8k, unheard of at the time in a hot hatch. The gears seemed to go on forever. Crazy little car.

1st gear is definitely to be used like any other gear. You can downshift into 1st at up to around 30mph, and that still gives you about 15mph of acceleration to play with. Below that speed in 2nd, the revs are too low and the car is off the boil. Edited by SkinnyPete on Sunday 10th November 08:04