I recently had a chance to drive one of these for a couple days while my Cayman S was in the shop for a warranty repair. It was the dealer’s loaner car. While I didn’t have a chance to really test it (I only had it during the week, so I pretty much could only use it for commuting), it was an interesting comparison nevertheless.
It was pretty new, about 3,500 miles on the clock. The original window sticker was in the glove box. The MSRP was $111,000.
The 911 Carrera S has about 60 more HP than my CS. On the other hand, this particular loaner car had the Tiptronic transmission. According to the specs on edmunds.com, the 911 S Cab weighs about 350 lb more than my CS. Take the two together: the tip keeping the revs low by shifting up too soon, plus the extra weight, and it was hard to feel the difference in power. If I was just cruising along, the tip would shift up, so if I hit the gas, not much would happen until it decided to downshift, and I had to hit the gas pretty hard to get it to downshift. Once I got it up into the revs, I could feel a little more power than my CS, but not much. That extra 350 lbs makes a BIG difference.
On the other hand, according to the trip computer, I was getting much better mileage. I chalk this up to the tip. It’s always shifting up. For example, when I get on the freeway in my manual CS, and I’m merging, I keep the revs up a bit, say 3,500 to 4,500, so I have some throttle response if/when I need it. The tip would shift up in those conditions. This car had Sport/Chrono. I tried it, but it seemed to have far less impact on throttle mapping than SC in my CS. It did seem to keep the revs higher (via the tip) a bit, but not near what I expected. The tip just really wants to keep the revs low.
Yes, I tried the tip’s manual mode, but I fail to see the point. Perhaps on a track, but on the street, it did nothing for me. I even tried one of my favorite “long way home” routes, where in my manual, there are a couple turns that just scream “heel/toe.” I tried this in the tip. I hit the brakes, pressed the downshift button about where I would heel/toe, and took the turn. Sorry, tip owners, but this did nothing for me.
As for handling, well, you already know what I’m about to say. The CS is just far more planted than the 911. During lane changes, the CS seems to move laterally from one lane to the other, while the 911 seems to have to make an S shaped turn to get from one lane to the next. Taking the same on-ramps in the 911 that I do on a day-to-day basis in my CS, the 911 is straining at a speed where the CS is just easing. At the same speed on the same on-ramp, the 911 seemed to be at 7 or 8 tenths, while the CS felt like 4 or 5 tenths. Same thing on that "long way home" route I mentioned. The CS takes those turns far, far better than the 911 does.
The 911 also had PASM, just like my CS. For some reason, though, putting it in sport mode made much less of a difference in the 911 than my CS. I don’t know why this would be the case.
There was a thread a while back about “do you wish you had gotten the 911.” I think you know my answer to that question by now. Perhaps my opinion would be a bit different if this 911 had a manual, but not by much. Even when I got the revs up in the tip, the power wasn't that much more. The handling of the CS is just that much better.
Bottom line, in my opinion, the 911 is a GT car these days, while the CS is the sports car.
hey this is a cool comparo. nice job. I like the comparisons with the lane changes. I can picture what you're talking about.
Tiptronic is not best means of letting a 911 shine. Had you tried a manual or PDK C2S your impressions may have been different as you noted. As much as I enjoyed my 06 CS, my 09 C2S cab w/ PDK is more versatile, and much more powerful.
I have a base 911 Cab now. It's an upgrade from a Boxster. I have to agree generally with your assesment that the Boxster/Cayman has more of a sports car feel. The Boxster felt more planted on sharp curves and (under 70mph) aggressive driving. The 911 however feels a lot more solid on the hwy at 70+ mph. There are times I miss the road feel of the Boxster but I appreciate the solid cruising of the 911. They are different cars for different drivers...I guess.
yup, all the 911 leftovers I see at dealerships have tip, does not seem to sell at all nowadays.
Nice writeup, I enjoy reading first hand comparisons with cars. I recently drove the Gen II Boxter 2.9 and it felt "comfortable" compared to the Gen II CS.
It sounds like you went into the 911 looking for things wrong. Both have pros and cons. The bottom line for me was the back seat in the 911. It is storage and I love that. I always keep the seatbacks down and it looks great with all that additional room. But the best advantage: More room for the driver. Can move the seat back further and recline further.
Any smaller sports car is going to feel more like a capsule, which is going to make it feel more like a sports car (generally speaking, of course). The 911 looks better in my opinion; the performace difference is so negligible that you have to really be looking for a difference, as you were. The class of the 911 interior is much higher (imho). But to each his own as they say! (although I never understood that phrase, who elses 'own' would it be?
Excellent write-up btw.
Since the interiors share so many parts, how can one get this impression? The dash is a little different, but so much is in common. Even the seats are identical...
How? It is what it is....I've owned both (and love both, don't misunderstand!) I just prefer the 911 for the reasons I gave.
UCLA81 you may have noticed that there are segments within the Porsche model communities that have certain sensitivities. For instances on the 911 forums someone will say he was given a Cayman loaner and it didn't measure up to his 911. Somone who owns a Cayman drives a 911 and isn't impressed and writes such. You are correct that sometimes, not always, the posts are not about feature/performance comparisons, but rather about finding fault with the Porsche the other guy drives. These threads often result in people becoming defensive about their choices. Participating in these discussions can be like travelling through a mine field. For my part, I previously owned a Cayman S which I enjoyed for three years and now own a C2S Cab, which is the right Porsche for me at this time. My wife has an 08 Boxster LE which allows me to enjoy the best of both Porsche worlds. Enjoy your 911!
Just get both.
That's what I'd like to do!
We all know the answer is always - more P-cars ....
I'm growing really fond of the idea of getting a base Carrera some day. Just a simple base with a 6 spd, or who knows maybe a PDK, custom ordered with the bare-essential goodies.
I got a base 911 SC way back when. I think the engines were heavier back then. I found it to be a nice touring car, but no fun for autocross or track. Mods were so expensive, i just traded for an unwanted E30 M3 with 9,000 miles. The dealer was happy to take the 911 in trade and get rid of the M3.
No one liked the 4 cyl engine in those early M-cars. They were a bit anemic at low revs. I got a 2 year old $36,000 car for $23,000. An exhaust cam gear and chip from Dinan fixed it right up. I was on a steady BMW diet until Bangle came along. By then I had my E36 M3 and it was a keeper for 15 years. Now the CS has me forgetting all about that car.
I think engines belong either in front of the rear wheels or behind the front wheels.
Is the 911 a grand tourer or a sportscar???
I will say 80% sportscar and 20% grandtourer
This percentage will change depends on what option you add on your car.
If you spec the manual gearbox, the sports exhaust and sport Pasm. Its just as fun to drive when compare with my old cayman S (90% sportscar 10%GT).
If you had driven a AMG car or Jaguar xkr, you will find the 911 too involving to be a 100 % grand tourer!
I have to concur with Dave. This is more of a comparison of transmissions than cars. The Tip is a fun-killer. It's also heavy! The C2S weights 350 more than the CS, but C2S with Tip is even more weight. The electric convertible top adds weight and there are suspension stiffeners that add weight too because the soft top doesn't contribute to rigidity. Throw on the Tip and your sports car feels like a bit of a Buick.
911s are better than this Tiptronic example for sure. 911 coupes drive better than the cabs, just as Caymans drive better than Boxsters, but CS's are better for driving hard. Too bad we can't get all the 911 engines, but I'm deleriously happy with my CS.
Big difference between the 08 997 and the 09 997/2, just as with the 08 Cayman and the 09 Cayman. Tip is a buzz kill, I wouldn't want the PDK either.
Last week, most of the cars on my dealer's lot were PDK's.
Do this, try a 997/2 with a stick and let us know. Better yet, 997/2 S...
:cheers:
Nice write up, but I like the idea that was presented-- buy one of each!!
so I guess if you had your choice between a Cayman S and a Carrera S....you would pick the Cayman S. I am amazed.
Johnny
