992.1 T vs GTS vs Targa vs 992.2 C2 - Page 2 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Sorry for the long title, I didn’t quite know what to put! Essentially I’m looking at all the above; a 992.1 T with manual gearbox, a GTS (not 4), a Targa 4 GTS and also a 992.2 base model. It’ll be replacing a DB11; a beautiful and lovely machine but just really lacking driver involvement. I think it’s the steering and GT-like handling that’s not working for me and a drive in a 992.1 GTS was a joy - like a go-kart in comparison. Short of driving every single model, which isn’t that easy to find them all in one place, can anyone try and steer me in the direction of what I think I might be wanting? Which has the best feeling steering? Will a base model feel too soft in the corners compared to a GTS? Is a .1 T with the 7-speed manual shorter geared than the new .2 6-speed equivalent? That seems to be the main complaint. I’d only introduced the 992.2 base into the mix because they’re working out well on a PCP for a three month old car. I feel like I’ve maxed out watching YouTube videos and not gaining from them any more!

Does it need to be a manual? I'm thinking of selling my 992.1 GTS.

No, I think for the GTS I was preferring PDK. But mainly because the Porsche salesman scared me off buying a manual GTS as they’re not popular in the used market - which seems odd to me as I’d have thought it would appeal more to the ‘drivers’.

Im in a 992.1 C4S its a really nice car, however, recently drove the 992.1 C4GTS PDK, awesome car. I'd go 992.1 GTS or 4 GTS

Beanie said: Im in a 992.1 C4S its a really nice car, however, recently drove the 992.1 C4GTS PDK, awesome car. I'd go 992.1 GTS or 4 GTS Ok, that’s the kind of info I’m looking for! How is it noticeably different to a C4S? Harder and sharper? I loved the GTS I drove so maybe I should just go for one of those….it’s just that PCP residuals look stronger on the 992.2 base models than on the 992.1 GTS models; I fail to see how they’ll be in stronger demand than a well specced GTS in three years.

If you want the best steering don’t go for the Targa…4wd plus additional weight which is all in the wrong place. Don’t know about 992.1 but in 991.2 it was considered the worst car to drive.

Cheib said: If you want the best steering don’t go for the Targa…4wd plus additional weight which is all in the wrong place. Don’t know about 992.1 but in 991.2 it was considered the worst car to drive. Jayemm in his recent review of the Targa wasn’t a fan of the steering at all! Guess I’d better rule that one out then! One down, three to go.

Maybe go drive them all. Having owned a 991.2 GTS (Coupe) and a 992.1 Targa GTS, I'd say the latter handled much better than the former.

Owned a 992.1 C4 GTS for about 15 months now. Just returned from a tour with several other 911s (991 GTS, 992 GT3 Touring, 992 ST, 996 etc) through Brecon Beacons and associated hills last week Personally I think the GTS is an awesome drive. Just 'enough' but never too much. Fantastic in the twisty roads. Very comfortable cruising on some A Roads. Absolutely delivered all the 'instant power' I ever needed when overtaking. Others will argue but I think the handling is outstanding and I've never for one moment felt the steering or car were heavy. Great balance between an everyday driver (which it is) and then a raw sports car when you need it My only only criticism is engine noise - there just isn't enough of it inside the car. Give me a GTS with the noise of the GT3s I was following and I'd be signed up for life

diametric123 said: Owned a 992.1 C4 GTS for about 15 months now. Just returned from a tour with several other 911s (991 GTS, 992 GT3 Touring, 992 ST, 996 etc) through Brecon Beacons and associated hills last week Personally I think the GTS is an awesome drive. Just 'enough' but never too much. Fantastic in the twisty roads. Very comfortable cruising on some A Roads. Absolutely delivered all the 'instant power' I ever needed when overtaking. Others will argue but I think the handling is outstanding and I've never for one moment felt the steering or car were heavy. Great balance between an everyday driver (which it is) and then a raw sports car when you need it My only only criticism is engine noise - there just isn't enough of it inside the car. Give me a GTS with the noise of the GT3s I was following and I'd be signed up for life Good to hear! Although it’s an everyday driver I’m actually only home for two weeks at a time and don’t have to commute in it so I can accept things slightly more on the extreme side. My wife might argue otherwise and loves the Aston. I hope you don’t mind but I checked your ‘garage’ and you’ve an extensive car history there including Astons and Ferraris. My main concern switching to Porsche is that they’re a not quite as ‘special’ as an Aston with a V12; how do you find that? They’re a bit more……I dunno…..mundane, especially if they don’t have any of the nice interior touches and just have the rubber dash! I’ve always been into the engine and noise of a car but have recently been more interested in handling and feel - I was particularly impressed by a friend’s GR86!

How about a few sessions at Porsche experience at Silverstone to see what you think

I am a massive fan of a manual 992.1 T. more than enough for the road but I would take a manual GTS 2 wheel drive because of the power.

You are 100% correct - every Porsche I have ever driven has been predictable, reliable, genuine - maybe mundane. Last week I was in a 992 ST and it felt just like all the others. I've toured in a 997 Sport Classic, Carrera GT, GT3s, a Singer - they all felt like 'Porsches'. That's the strength of the brand Now Ferrari on the other hand - even a trip to the shops felt like a wild adventure. The most mundane 5 minutes in a Ferrari was more thrilling than almost all the most exciting times in a Porsche. In my experience they are unique (and I'm including Aston and Lambo in the peer group). However...I've never owned a Ferrari that didn't break down, cost me a fortune in repairs (£10k for a clutch), help me crash (dangerously), have an engine blow-up while I was going round a mountain pass etc. I drive a 992 everyday because I know exactly what I am going to get. Does it make my heart race - yes to look at (I think best design in years) but no to drive. That makes it a perfect daily / occasional tourer but not the first picture I want to show people when they ask what's my favourite car... Crumpet said: Good to hear! Although it’s an everyday driver I’m actually only home for two weeks at a time and don’t have to commute in it so I can accept things slightly more on the extreme side. My wife might argue otherwise and loves the Aston. I hope you don’t mind but I checked your ‘garage’ and you’ve an extensive car history there including Astons and Ferraris. My main concern switching to Porsche is that they’re a not quite as ‘special’ as an Aston with a V12; how do you find that? They’re a bit more……I dunno…..mundane, especially if they don’t have any of the nice interior touches and just have the rubber dash! I’ve always been into the engine and noise of a car but have recently been more interested in handling and feel - I was particularly impressed by a friend’s GR86!

Similarly looking to step out of a DB11, I think best way up from an Aston V12 is a GT3 or a V12 Ferrari.

Crumpet said: Beanie said: Im in a 992.1 C4S its a really nice car, however, recently drove the 992.1 C4GTS PDK, awesome car. I'd go 992.1 GTS or 4 GTS Ok, that’s the kind of info I’m looking for! How is it noticeably different to a C4S? Harder and sharper? I loved the GTS I drove so maybe I should just go for one of those….it’s just that PCP residuals look stronger on the 992.2 base models than on the 992.1 GTS models; I fail to see how they’ll be in stronger demand than a well specced GTS in three years. You hit it right with your guess, sharper, more responsive, a little more go kart feel in a good way of course and not too much for a daily but id say right on the edge. As many say, the sweet spot of the range. The C4S is a fantastic daily, dont get me wrong, but I think it'll be a 4 gts next for the daily. I'm in north Scotland, so the 4 is important to me as daily. I did jump out of the gts and then into a 992.1 gt3 rs, that was just mental, great fun, but not entertainable as daily. Also you could have the gts AND the 4s for the price of the gt3 rs, which is just mental. I'd be gobsmacked if a base 992.2 holds better residuals in future than a 992.1 gts. But im no expert. Edited by Beanie on Tuesday 6th May 19:36

the 992.1 gts4 steering feel is not great,contantly tuging away over undulations. much better in the 992.1 gts 2,possiblly the best road use version

neverlifted said: Similarly looking to step out of a DB11, I think best way up from an Aston V12 is a GT3 or a V12 Ferrari. Interesting that you’re also looking to leave the DB11. Any particular reason? They’re great cars but feel like they need to be part of a three-car solution (SUV/GT/Sports).

Sorry for the delay getting back to this, been busy! turbospud said: the 992.1 gts4 steering feel is not great,contantly tuging away over undulations. much better in the 992.1 gts 2,possiblly the best road use version Thanks for the feedback, I’d heard the 4 affects the steering and looks like it takes a bit of storage space out of the boot as well - which is actually quite important for me! I’m currently favouring a manual GTS2 (992.1) and hoping that going back to a manual isn’t going to be too much of a chore! I don’t really drive in traffic so it shouldn’t be that much of an issue. Edited by Crumpet on Saturday 10th May 10:27

Crumpet said: Thanks for the feedback, I’d heard the 4 affects the steering and looks like it takes a bit of storage space out of the boot as well - which is actually quite important for me! I’m currently favouring a manual GTS2 (992.1) and hoping that going back to a manual isn’t going to be too much of a chore! I don’t really drive in traffic so it shouldn’t be that much of an issue. Edited by Crumpet on Saturday 10th May 10:27 I had a manual 992.1 - 2wd with rws. It was a delight, really liked the steering and the manual gearbox was lovely. Currently in a 981 gt4 and it’s completely different - much heavier clutch and less torque. The 992.1 felt more relaxing, more powerful but still engaging - I think it’s a sweet spot in modern Porsche.

Crumpet said: No, I think for the GTS I was preferring PDK. But mainly because the Porsche salesman scared me off buying a manual GTS as they’re not popular in the used market - which seems odd to me as I’d have thought it would appeal more to the ‘drivers’. He’s talking out of his arse to flog you a PDK one that he has. The manual, especially the 991.1, is so few in comparison it takes ages to find one for those who’d want one. The 991.1 is like rocking horse poo.

Crumpet said: Thanks for the feedback, I’d heard the 4 affects the steering and looks like it takes a bit of storage space out of the boot as well - which is actually quite important for me! I’m currently favouring a manual GTS2 (992.1) and hoping that going back to a manual isn’t going to be too much of a chore! I don’t really drive in traffic so it shouldn’t be that much of an issue. Edited by Crumpet on Saturday 10th May 10:27 I had a manual 992.1 - 2wd with rws. It was a delight, really liked the steering and the manual gearbox was lovely. Currently in a 981 gt4 and it’s completely different - much heavier clutch and less torque. The 992.1 felt more relaxing, more powerful but still engaging - I think it’s a sweet spot in modern Porsche.

Goater2 said: I had a manual 992.1 - 2wd with rws. It was a delight, really liked the steering and the manual gearbox was lovely. Currently in a 981 gt4 and it’s completely different - much heavier clutch and less torque. The 992.1 felt more relaxing, more powerful but still engaging - I think it’s a sweet spot in modern Porsche. Great to hear! I actually made an offer on one yesterday, despite having only driven a PDK, so we’ll have to see if they can get a good price for mine. Has the RWS as well and most of the ‘bits’ that I want. Weirdly it has a very low ‘final payment’ on PCP so I was wondering if there was something weird in the spec that was making it so. It’ll be cash anyway, but I still don’t want to take a massive hit.

And, just to update this one, I’ve bought one! Gone for a manual GTS 2. My first Porsche and have gone from a string of nine British(ish) cars in a row to now having two German cars on the drive. Feel like a traitor!

Sy1441 said: Does it need to be a manual? I'm thinking of selling my 992.1 GTS. Can I have the details of your 992.1 GTS if you haven’t sold it it

How is the Porsche Crumpet are you enjoying the manual gearbox?

cayman-black said: How is the Porsche Crumpet are you enjoying the manual gearbox? Mixed feelings, to be honest. I love the looks, even after an Aston (who I think make the best looking cars) I think it holds its own. I think I look back at the Porsche more than I did the Aston, but the Shark Blue and massive brakes do make it look striking! I like the handling and the rear wheel steering makes it feel very nimble but the brakes are the biggest difference and provide massive confidence. It feels very controllable when having fun and pressing on. None of this should be a surprise after a GT car, though. That being said, the steering has no feel and only weights up nicely at fairly high road speeds. The ride quality is appalling. The road noise is inexcusable. The engine and exhaust has no character and is, frankly, boring. The manual gearbox is ‘ok’ in the way it shifts but not great. The ‘autoblip’ is brilliant and sounds great but if you turn it off and heel and toe yourself it doesn’t sound the same - my assumption being that the blip noise is fake. It’s very quick but there’s massive turbo lag compared to the V12 in the Aston or the supercharged V8 in my previous SVR. I think the Aston felt quicker and picked up better with quicker throttle response; I’ve never had a ‘f**k me, that’s quick’ moment in the Porsche but the Aston was brutal when it got going. That could be because the Porsche is just better at controlling the acceleration and power whereas the Aston always felt a bit overpowered. I do like it but I think the fact I’ve never laughed-out-loud or grinned like a lunatic in it suggests that it’s missing something. It’s just very efficient at being a performance car and, like a lot of German cars, that just takes away a lot of the enjoyment. I like flawed cars; the GTS has lots of flaws - road noise and ride primarily - but they’re not endearing qualities. I’ve no regrets, I wanted to try a 911 and it’s a good car, but I’m really not sure about this ‘sweet spot in the range’ that reviewers always go on about. I think a T or nicely specced base might have been a better option. To top all of that off, the wife hates it! Does look awesome, though!

Thanks for the reply Crumpet it gives a good in sight. I must admit that my SVR made me laugh even more than my V12 Vantage did.I,m looking now at a GTS 992.1 or the new t .

I think the new T could be a nice option. Although the one thing I will say for my ‘23 is that there are no ‘nanny’ features, so no speed warnings or lane-keeping nonsense. It’s about as analogue as you get in a two year old car without going a bit extreme with Caterhams and the like. Just to be clear, it’s a cracking steer on the right road, although you literally use two gears when ‘enjoying’ it - second and third. And even then you could probably just stay in third. It does take out some of the engagement that the manual is supposed to put back in by the gears being so long. I think, for me, a nice engine and exhaust note can be enjoyed 100% of the time, which is why the V8s and V12s I’ve had have been so enjoyable. The excellent handling of the GTS can only be enjoyed 5% of the time so all the downsides are with you for the other 95. I do wonder if I should’ve gone for an older 911 with the NA engine, hydraulic rack and a decent exhaust. Might’ve been more my ‘thing’.

Crumpet I don't know you but have you considered a career as a professional car reviewer? I own a 992.1 4 GTS and your comments are incredibly perceptive. Its a superbly confident machine but there are rare moments of 'wow'. The only decent performance / engine note is in Sports Plus mode - that should be where the car begins, not ends Porsches - I always like them but find them very hard to love. Astons - incredible engine note and design beauty, terrible built quality and reliability. Now Ferraris...

diametric123 said: Crumpet I don't know you but have you considered a career as a professional car reviewer? I own a 992.1 4 GTS and your comments are incredibly perceptive. Its a superbly confident machine but there are rare moments of 'wow'. The only decent performance / engine note is in Sports Plus mode - that should be where the car begins, not ends Porsches - I always like them but find them very hard to love. Astons - incredible engine note and design beauty, terrible built quality and reliability. Now Ferraris... Haha, my wife always says that when I’m critiquing various hire cars! I actually haven’t been bothering with the Sports Plus mode as it turns off the ‘backfire’ - the one interesting noise it makes! Maybe I should see if it’s any better. I do agree, though; Porsches for me are definitely a case of ‘like’ not ‘love’ and ‘admire’ not ‘desire’. Astons have the looks, noise and comfort and I certainly felt the build quality of my DB11 was on a par with the GTS. Reliability is another story! A Ferrari Roma would, I think, have been the right choice. Sadly they’re well out of my budget. I’m still going to enjoy the Porsche, though. It actually makes me want to plan proper driving trips to enjoy the roads and experience, something my previous cars haven’t encouraged.

Interesting comment - I was pretty disappointed with the performance of my GTS until I took it on a couple of tours, the best one being the Brecons earlier this year - was in a convoy with four other 911s (including a GT3 Touring and an S/T), along with a McLaren - and I experienced a completely different car

Interesting observations, I have also been on a 992 journey. I had a new C2S 992.1 (Manual) back in 2020, lovely spec and a great car on all counts but felt it was 'missing' something, a little excitement maybe. I then jumped into a Lamborghini LP610 Roadster which had all the drama but nowhere near the steering feel, I then decided to push the budget and got into a low mileage Ferrari 488GTB. This was a fantastic car and I had some great road trips, the brake squeak annoyed me and it made some really odd noises (wastegate), but to drive it was pin sharp and it looked fabulous. In the end I used it less than imagined as I felt a little conspicuous, and was worried about where I parked it and how many miles I put on it (I doubled the mileage in 12 months!) So fast forward another year or 2 I have decided to place a deposit on a 992.2 (Carrera PDK)....why? Well with hindsight and after driving all these great cars, I realise its actually the best all rounder and meets the sports car/grand tour car brief better than any of the others. With all cars it's a compromise, but the 992 does everything so well...I have scratched a few itches along the way. If money was no object I would probably have an F8 and just drive it until the wheels fell off, but alas I am a mere mortal and the 992 works so much better for me in most situations. I also decided to go PDK this time round, mostly after my Porsche Experience Day at Silverstone. I drove a PDK car and it was so engaging, I really enjoyed the speed of the change and the tactility of the paddles. The 7 speed in C2S I found a little long geared and at the time living in South London was not the best for traffic. I won't ditch manual completely as I will be looking for an analogue 2nd car soon to join the 992, mostly likely a Caterham. Enjoy your GTS Edited by jdwoodbury on Monday 23 June 09:25

jdwoodbury said: Interesting observations, I have also been on a 992 journey. I had a new C2S 992.1 (Manual) back in 2020, lovely spec and a great car on all counts but felt it was 'missing' something, a little excitement maybe. I then jumped into a Lamborghini LP610 Roadster which had all the drama but nowhere near the steering feel, I then decided to push the budget and got into a low mileage Ferrari 488GTB. This was a fantastic car and I had some great road trips, the brake squeak annoyed me and it made some really odd noises (wastegate), but to drive it was pin sharp and it looked fabulous. In the end I used it less than imagined as I felt a little conspicuous, and was worried about where I parked it and how many miles I put on it (I doubled the mileage in 12 months!) So fast forward another year or 2 I have decided to place a deposit on a 992.2 (Carrera PDK)....why? Well with hindsight and after driving all these great cars, I realise its actually the best all rounder and meets the sports car/grand tour car brief better than any of the others. With all cars it's a compromise, but the 992 does everything so well...I have scratched a few itches along the way. If money was no object I would probably have an F8 and just drive it until the wheels fell off, but alas I am a mere mortal and the 992 works so much better for me in most situations. I also decided to go PDK this time round, mostly after my Porsche Experience Day at Silverstone. I drove a PDK car and it was so engaging, I really enjoyed the speed of the change and the tactility of the paddles. The 7 speed in C2S I found a little long geared and at the time living in South London was not the best for traffic. I won't ditch manual completely as I will be looking for an analogue 2nd car soon to join the 992, mostly likely a Caterham. Enjoy your GTS Edited by jdwoodbury on Monday 23 June 09:25 Interesting post. Is that Aventurine Green? There was an incredible one for sale - a GTS - that had a custom tan interior. It looked the absolute nuts with an amazing spec but wasn’t from a Porsche main dealer. You’re totally right about all cars being a compromise. I use mine as a genuine family car with 9 & 10 year old children; school runs, sports clubs, weekends away…….the lot. It doesn’t, however, have to do a commute as I work rotations. Of course I could go for something more sensible, like another F-Pace SVR or some super-saloon type thing, but where’s the fun in that! There’s something rewarding about getting three holdalls, a massive cool bag full of food, three backpacks, a folding chair, four coats and four people in a (relatively) tiny sports car! I’ve always managed with rear wheel drive through a Yorkshire winter so don’t think I need the ‘4’ but I do perhaps wonder if I should’ve gone for a PDK. I also think I should’ve test driven a C2S on normal PASM to see whether it was more suited to my needs - quieter and softer cruising and more ‘Aston-like’. The 911 is a really good all-rounder so I can see why you came back from the Ferrari. The DB12 is out of my budget but I do wonder if they’ve managed to give it a handling edge that the DB11 lacked - maybe one day that’ll be ‘the one’.

Yes it was Aventurine Green with Island Green interior. This time the wife has decided the colour will be Gentian Blue and Cognac.