996 Horsepower (No Mezgers Allowed)

I think that engine output, including peak power IS important. If we're going to talk about power bands, flat torque curves and BIG peak numbers, dyno graphs should form the basis of those conversations. Why wouldn't they ? What else should ? So, let's see those higher than stock HP 996's. Share the mods you've done or not. Share how much you spent to get there, or not. There's a lot to be learned by the sharing and discussion of dyno graphs - I hope some people have seen that first hand on other forums and will help encourage, and participate in bringing some of that community knowledge gathering here. RULES (we're not savages) 1. No Mezgers , any and all other engines allowed and encouraged, any displacement, power adder or combination of power adders also good to go. 2. Must post a chassis dyno graph , if the dyno MFG isn't overlaid on the graph, please add to your post. 3. If you're a MFG, No Development Mules , must be an engine, or parts combo that you sell or is otherwise commercially available. AND, cost of parts, or engine should be included in your post or readily available through your, or others web store.

I be sad J/k i like math so send the graphs.

Might also want to know if Standard or SAE, I would only accept SAE.

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The more info the better.. but I wanted to keep it easy as an encouragement for people to just post what they got to stimulate discussion.

2004 911 C2 3.6L Peak HP 310 and torque 282 Engine Mods BMC Air Filter Muffler delete Speedtech Headers Speedtech Catless X Pipe Softronic Tune FVD deep sump Motorsport AOS AC Delete Tarett Underdrive Pulley LN IMS Solution Fairly fresh plugs, coils and injectors

It will be interesting to see another dyno with a muffler system and see if there is a increase in torque at 2700 rpm.

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2.7K pretty low in the RPM range, not an RPM I think there should be a big concern over power, at least, not a place I would put any priority on power at the sacrifice of anywhere else. Agree though, he's got a lot of the mods people generally say are not great for torque, in his case, looks good to me through. From 3600- 5500 to have nice torque and the peak power seems strong. Would be hard pressed to say his mods aren't working. Looks like the power just starts dipping before shutting it down, I wonder what it would look like if he ran it out another 500RPM. Thanks for posting dude.

I like this idea. I think it would also be cool to see what HP output looks like on a stock or fairly stock motor after about 20 years of use. In other words, how is the M96 coping with power over time and how close is it to original power. In case anyone did a before and after dyno when adding any mods....

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I agree with you, especially with mods that are listed. but for a everyday car It would be interesting to see the difference.... the 02 had bypass pipes (Fabspeed) and was a miserable car to drive in San Fransisco traffic and very noticeable when we put muffler back on. I did try baffles before removing the bypass and was a little improvement,

Just want to say there is 0 chance I would have the exhaust this way if I were driving on the street. It hurts your ears without a helmet on and draws way too much attention. It is LOUD!

I say put on the bypass pipes AND LEARN TO LOVE THE ROAR

I think that having Mezger's would be great too. Always nice to see how an M96.2 3.8 or M96.3 4.x build stacks up against Porsche's "best", the M96.79 and the M96.70.

The impetus for the thread was what people are getting for results, tuning, rebuilding or swapping their non turbo/GT 996. That being the case, if you swapped a mezger into your non turbo/GT car, it is inline with the spirit of the thread so post away.

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I don't think that is a particularly fair comparison. With a few clicks I can have 420, 450, or 500 HP.

Stock m96 with bolt ons vs k24 Honda Turbo

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What year? Is that a 996.1, so a 3.4L? Do you know what SAE correction and smoothing they were using when that was displayed?

it was a 99. No smoothing 4th gear pull. Fabspeed catted exhaust and k&n intake on a 75 degree day.

@BaysideFab in 1st place with the K at 485WHP. I've been following your build - sorry for your loss, well losses. On the bright side, you can send a lot of rods to the moon before you start getting anywhere close to M96 money. I think you will get it sorted and the K turbo is a pretty well vetted combo, the stock rods and boost coming on a little too hard have ended a lot of them though. If you're going to stay with a stock block, really good boost control (waste gate priority) and someone that knows how to tune them to stay alive will probably do you real good. Good luck. @BaysideFab 485WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @JSETarga 310WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @BaysideFab 259WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263

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just picked up a jdm k24 today. Gonna get a smaller turbo, new tuner and switch to a 3 port. Once I get all bugs sorted out I have a built block for the big power but we�re not there yet.

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1st place for 996 horsepower is a 4 cylinder Honda that blew up 🤡

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yeah had a boost control issue and hit 28psi on stock internals. $900 mistake. The 250hp m96 just blows itself up in stock form and your $10k in the hole.

Also as you can see by this graph this is where we had the issue. It survived boost cut in the dyno but not on the street. Made 556hp and 474tq and was climbing. Stock motors can not handle that power level. Would have been fine at the 480hp level.

Here is my 996 with 997 3.8 and Dundon Exhaust compared to 996 GT3. My car is blue line (hope that is right....I am color blind.). This is at the wheels so I think you add 15%

@lowpue Kinda hard to tell where peak was, How about we go with 345. Interesting how similar the power curves are with the GT3, the GT3 power is just shifted later in the RPM range. @BaysideFab 485WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @lowpue 345WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @JSETarga 310WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @BaysideFab 259WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263

I'm with @philbert996 that the Honda should be removed from the list -- for now. You are not allowing one-off runs from engine builders and this seems like one of those to me. I'd be more inclined to allow it if I saw a motor that was being regularly driven without grenading. Thanks for starting this thread BTW. Should be a lot of fun.

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The MFG rule is because if a consumer can�t replicate it, it has no real world value for owners. If ​​​ @BaysideFab numbers were out of line for a Turbo K, I�d agree with you, but they�re not - the story is in this thread so people can use their own judgement.

@BaysideFab 485WHP * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @lowpue 345WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @JSETarga 310WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @BaysideFab 259WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 An * on his number is fair.

@lowpue - loving that exhaust set up!

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Wanting to erase the Honda from the list because it crushes a m96 is hilarious. The motor didnt blow up at 480hp. It blew up on a accidental 600hp+ Pull. Car made about 15 pulls over 400hp no problem. It�s a hard pill to swallow I know.

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Maybe you should be posting on a Honda forum mod thread rather than here. The below is taken from the OP's first post of this thread. I'm just sayin': " So, let's see those higher than stock HP 996's."

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You are not paying attention. His car is a 996. Read rule 1 Read the rest of the OP and the follow on posts. Looking at what results people have had with the mods and swaps on their non turbo/GT 996s is the point of the thread. I’m just going to get this out there. If you’re a purists who’s intolerant of people doing what they want with these cars and you’re gonna try to muck this thread with your negativity - please just don’t click the thread title.

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I want to root for your project... as my tuning roots are in Japanese cars going back into the early-mid 90's. It's just your attitude that is a turn off. Why not just come in and say the 996 is a great platform that you want to experiment on as opposed to hey, the M96 is terrible, and the 996 is a piece of junk. What are you trying to accomplish here? Most of us (including me) hope you achieve all your goals. Why approach us in this way? Whatever. I've said this before and you choose to go about it your own way. I follow your progress, but I'm less excited about it as I would be if you didn't make it a point to tell us our cars and engines are terrible.

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My cars a 996. Don�t be so threatened man. Man up and make some big m96 power to prove Hondas suck in this chassis.

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Please highlight where I ever said the 996 is a piece of junk. Don�t put words in my mouth in order to conjure up a negative opinion of me. I own a 996 and have a deposit on another. They are fantastic platforms, best car I have ever owned. The m96 is a bad motor. Hate to break the news to you but it�s pretty well documented that they barley hold up in stock form and are extremely expensive to fix or modify.

Let’s keep this away from an M96 vs the world thread, not the intent. I think you guys have said your piece.

👍🏻 I�m building a LS swapped 996 exhaust this week for a guy. Hoping to talk him into getting it dynoed right after. Will post up when finished!

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So sorry I questioned your "authoriti"

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Dude I have nothing against Honda. My other toy is a Honda Civic Type R with the lowly K20 engine factory rated at 306hp. My M96 has plenty of hp for me(not stock) and so does the Honda. To each their own.

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Hey @wildbilly32 do you have a dyno graph of your not stock M96 you can add to the conversation ? Would be awesome if you do if you would share with the community.

I don't have a dog in this fight BUT I've been looking at rollers and one engine I've seen swapped that has a rep for being a solid one is a 3.2 VR6. Speed Density in TN does them and if I were to ever get a reasonable roller, I'm looking at either a Rotex Supercharged version or adding a single turbo. Very few things sound as cool as a VR6! They have a 1200hp Turbo VR6. https://www.speeddensitymotorsports.com

No fighting !!!! Not for dogs or any other animals, people included ! Lets just talk about horsepowers like reasonable adults.

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I do have that and have no intention to post it. Thanks for asking anyway.

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Thanks for your contribution to the thread @wildbilly32 What a bizarre place this forum is.

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Can�t be worse than my baseline chart of my m96. Can it? If it is you might have some mechanical issues maybe we can help you with.

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I'd do a 3.6 VR6 before a 3.2. Hey, Porsche used the 3.6 VR6 in some vehicles so it's still all Porsche. (Actually they used the 3.2 as well, which is a bit of a dog in a Cayenne.) I think the 3.6 VR6 could be run by the 996 stock engine management with the right wiring harness. I met a fellow who is marketing an Audi 2.9 turbo swap for 996. He had his demo car on display at a show earlier this year.

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Why exactly are you here and posting in this thread if you are not interested and have nothing to contribute? (rhetorical)

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Wonder if we can we get a dyno graph of it - that�s a cool combo and could be a good option for forum members to look at.

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Ahahahahahaha!

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I learned many years ago that when I ask for something I don't always get what I asked for... You do know a public forum is just that...public. Right?

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@TexSquirrel can we get some visibility here. This member has no intention (stated) of contributing to the thread. It would certainly appear as though they are actively trying to incite confrontation. A member offers to help them, and that is the response. Is this stuff cool with you ?

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No problem man. It�s too bad but I think you�re getting more joy out of it than anyone else being distressed. Which is weird. But whatever, good luck.

Let's keep the fighting and the engine debates out of this thread. It would be interesting to see dyno graphs of stock and modified M96/XX engines in one place. I think that's best for this thread unless we end up with scope creep or in-fighting. Maybe we need a Fight Club thread so this and other threads can remain on topic. The Off topic thread would also serve this purpose.

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I think its valuable to compare swapped 996s as well. Would love to see a LS compared to stock or modified M96. VR6, Subaru etc. Honestly, there's plenty to pick apart about my K24 996 graph compared to my M96. Everyone goes right to (this should be in a Honda forum. Any thing Honda should be banned) instead of actually debating or examining the details of the conversion and how the power was delivered. I was having a host of issues that day and would be up for debate and possible fixes.

It’s almost clear in the OP, then clarified - any motor swapped into a non GT/turbo 996 is good as well as all motors that came stock in non turbo/gt is good. The thread is about looking at all the options and what they do - how much they do and how they do it.

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I really really want to see what power levels the stock transaxle taps out at. I�ve heard 500ft/lbs ish but it�s always from someone who hasn�t had experience and is playing a game of telephone.

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What transmission is he using on the 2.9? I believe the 3.6 might be too big but not 100% sure.

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I believe I can find the one on SD's 1200hp car. I know I've seen it somewhere.

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Thanks Tex. I couldn't agree more.

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Sorry, that�s not this thread. You are free to start your own. You have already said you don�t want to contribute, so leave. I don�t get it.

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My old 3.4l, 6spd

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I made a mistake, he's using a 2.7 turbo engine with the bi-turbo setup removed and a single turbo with an air to water intercooler. He's using a G96 trans. The 3.6 VR6 is a little longer than the 3.2/2.8, not much about 1/2". Also it's not a 15 degree engine, I think it's 11.5 degrees so it's no wider. It fits in a Corrado.

I�d like to hear more personal experiences and data about the X51 3.4 engine.

My car is a Mezger car, but I'm going to post one of my dyno plots here as a source of comparison since anyone who would bother motor swapping or adding forced induction to an M96 car is likely chasing Mezger power figures and trying to (hopefully) do it cheaper than just buying a GT3 or Turbo. My car has FVD K24 "Race" turbos, which are basically standard K24s with slightly larger turbine wheels that let you eek a little more top end power out of them, and all the normal bolt ins that would go with that (clutch, lightweight flywheel, 997 GT2 RS intercoolers, Evolution diverter valves, mafless tune, fender well intakes, 5 bar fuel pressure regulator, etc). This was on a Dynocom dyno, which are known to read a bit high compared to other more common dynos. On something like a Dynojet, it probably would be more like 530hp.

That’s a wild torque curve. You are ramping boost up as RPM climbs ? Looks like if you Rev it out she’s got more to give.

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great looking graph!!! And power!!!

Hey is my buddy Nicks k24 swapped 997 graph. This is what a well sorted k24 swap with proper tuning and turbo size can achieve on a stock motor.

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You can "safely" get ~800hp out of stock internals on the Mezger cars but the weak point is the rods, which like to bend if you make too much torque down low so you'll usually see high power Mezgers have a torque curve like that to protect the rods. My car revs to 7000, but I think the guy running the dyno lifted early because the red starts at 6500 on the tach.

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The cam tuning looks like it�s really well done there with no dip and spikes and that flat torque curve. That thing in a 2800LB 996 would be a riot.

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I�m buying the same turbo he has😎

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Is this the car you speak of? https://www.speeddensitymotorsports....3-13236081a729 https://engineswapdepot.com/?p=48652

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Yes that's the car and shop.

As posted before in other threads You can get modest gains in HP, but having your torque come in fast and stay high throughout the power band was my goal and my tuner hit the nail on the head. With Deck lid closed, no fresh cooled air being piped in from outside in not a great environment for air flow, on a cold dyno You Tube

Thanks for sharing @NYoutftr ! That seems like a good strong number to me. Also, thanks for including the AFR. @BaysideFab 485WHP * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @lowpue 345WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @JSETarga 310WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @NYoutftr 291WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @BaysideFab 259WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263

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The fella (did not do my tune) running the dyno said it was a very impressive torque band. He told me more accurate might be a couple % higher reading due to dyno not run in almost a week and no fans mounted for rear engine cars on his dyno. He mostly tunes drag cars. A couple weeks before he put a used VF Engineering Supercharger on a 2002 C2 3.6L for a fellow PCA member. Wow, what a job that looked like cramming that supercharger in a 996. He had a heck of a time tuning it, as it was purchased used with no tune. There has always been push back on forums when the Overseers of horizontal 6 cylinder cars or the Porsche Whispers , don't agree with what a person is doing, just look back over the years. Air Boxes, Underdrive pulleys, motor mounts, the color of your floor mats. Look hard enough you will find negativity. To be honest with you folks, this negativity that was spewed on internet forums, which them in turn ended up being debates at Porsche events, started the movement last year for me to start getting my car ready to sell. Something I thought I never would do. It was one thing on forums or groups on the internet, but then the events started to be not as much fun. We have enough crap in our real life with what is going on in this country and the world, not be arguing about underdrive pulleys and how they lead to rod failure. Zbomb, we haven't meet, but I would think we have more in common than not. Keep up the charge in writing what you believe in, keep backing it up with data and the world will keep spinning.

Don�t fret, I have done plenty of ls swaps over the years, most of them on cars that have engines that decided to not run anymore. 22 years ago it was the FD rx7 forums that thought it ruined the car with the LS1 and a pro charger, Mercedes sl600 R129 v12 concerted to an LQ4 with a turbo and 4l80e. Those people didn�t like it either. Even the Lincoln Mark7 LSC that I converted to an ls1 4l60e got forums in a uproar. The 996 community is actually mostly tolerant, and understanding in the fact that the engine replacement in these cars can cost as much or more than the value of the car itself. The used engine market is just a crapshoot, and still expensive. You still have about 300hp after all that. While I�m not a 4 cylinder guy, the obvious upsides are lots of weight reduction, and much more room to work on the car, and the fact that used engines are plentiful and relatively robust, and it works well with the gear ratios of the car. I would imagine with a few stronger parts the redline on the k24 could be taken north of 8000rpm, and that�s interesting as well.

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My k24 with all turbo accessories weighs 87lbs lighter than the stock m96. If I did a more conservative turbo setup I bet I could shave another 15lbs off that too. And that�s obviously behind the rear axle!

2002 m96 3.6 This is my third m96 race motor and the first to be in substantially stock spec. Race spec motors blew up; they all blow up. Specs: ARP Bolts BMC Air Filter Motorsports AOS LN IMS LN Deep Sump Electric power steering and no AC 997 x51 headers into straight pipes Vision Motorsports tune You�ll see the power band looks odd. This motor put out over 320 bhp unmolested, but I needed two things: most utile power to be up above 5k rpm, bhp to be closer to 310 for power to weight. By using mostly stock parts and detuning the power, the hope is this motor will last at least 80 hours. It�s at 15 hours now and neither of the race motors made it that far.

The flat power above 6K does look a little odd but I’m impressed with the peak number. TQ curve above 4.5K looks good too. Out of curiosity, did the “race” spec motors make similar power ? Would be nice to see some more exotic M96’s to weigh what we have seen against. Thanks for sharing man ! ETA - interesting you and @JSETarga similar mods and similar results, nice to see that, curves are different which makes it interesting. @BaysideFab 485WHP * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @lowpue 345WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @JSETarga 310WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309 WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @NYoutftr 291WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @BaysideFab 259WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263

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300hp in this chassis is fun. What was the cause of the first two failures out of curiosity?

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Same power within +/- 5 bhp, but could push the band way further up the RPM’s. After this pull we set the rev limiter at 7,250. Just no point in letting it spin up higher I hit 2 of the 3 common failures. 1) Aspirated case . Sent a rod through the bottom of the motor. Result was the harmonic issue the m96 case creates when spinning motorsports parts faster and lighter than stock. Fully blueprinted motor with JE pistons. Still no global fix identified. 2) Seized from oiling issues. Again, fully blueprinted motor with all the tricks (boat tailed, deep sump, case ported/polished, etc). To be perfectly fair, I’ll give this one 25% user error as it should never have been on the Autoclub Speedway Roval. Nothing showed in the data, but G’s plus significant banking = kaboom. Still no global fix for this either. Spoke with a number of well known engine builders on the third rebuild and the consensus was it’s an engineering fault with the case that cannot be solved. M96 was developed to be a street motor bridging the 911 and Boxster and Porsche simply didn’t spend the money to make it race-able. Anyone telling you otherwise is looking for your money.

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ooof tough break man. Don�t even want to know what that cost ya. Ever consider just doing a LS swap to stop the pain? Cheap motors, cheap parts, more power.

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Yea, all engines have an inherent Harmonic vibration resonance, some worse than others , but ALL have it..The best you can do is move the resonance frequency out of the "use zone" to minimize the effects from it.. I dealt with this problem on a 4 cyl inline race motor back in the 80's, it had a harmonic vibration resonance at 4krpm 8krpm and 12krpm, the "third order" resonance at 12k RPM was a killer. It would shatter all the flywheel bolts like glass no matter what size/type/method of bolts/retention was used.. The only cure is a "reverse rotating ballance shaft" or in my case I resolved to set the Rev limit at 11,500 RPM.. This is interesting, since I have always loved fault analysis , and has been my forte . What were the G-forces that were encountered? I have no idea what the people you spoke to were talking about in regards to the " engine case" not handling the g-force. The metal of the case doesn't know or care what the g-force is or which direction it is coming from..Even at 2G the deflection force is only twice the weight of the engine, say 1k pounds. There are forces in the tens of thousands of pounds acting on the metal of the engine and 1k lbs from the g-force in a turn would be like a gnat on an elephant.. Did the bearing journal turn blue from lack of lubrication? I suspect they are talking about the "sump design" can't handle the "G-Force" and therefore led to failure.. Yes there is a cure for this..

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Porschetech, sounds like you are the perfect person to speak to this with actual mechanical knowledge and I�d be interested to hear your take. To answer your questions, yes, I was referring to the sump and oiling capacity of the engine, not the case structure. I was told the sump and the manner in which the oil was delivered internally were the Achilles heel and that they could be improved but not solved. The engine that failed had the LN deep sump with metal baffles, which I was warned would be best available but likely still not adequate for high G�s. To answer your G�s question, I�m not sure; will have to track down that data on an old *** computer somewhere in the garage. I recall possibly 1.2G on the banking and >2G in the braking zone (160 to 50mph), but honestly I have no clue. That could be utter nonsense my brain made up.

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Yes, the factory " Integrated Dry Sump System" and " Air-Oil Separation System" doesn't live up to expectations at all. You can start to have issues at about 1G on the factory stuff, and this can occur even on the street... I suspect your 1.2G on banking is about right. I have already shown the UIDS at 1.65G on turns ( and this is without the help of UAOS) , and am still looking for someone with a car that can do more G than this for testing and improvements......such people/cars are hard to find...

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I'm saving this one.......

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For your thread. Located here @mehoff https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...ds-v2-2-a.html I would prefer any sump marketing be left out of this thread.

I�ll add mine but I think you know the deets. 99 C2 with LS1 swap. SNS Stage 2 cam, ported LS2 intake, LS3 throttle body and injectors. 180 degree headers, Dr Gas mufflers, all 3� tubing. Tune is still rough, I�m taking it to another tuner here because it idles rich. 393rwhp

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Thanks dude ! Spicy... Lot of power for minimal mods, must be a lot of fun in a relatively light weight early chassis. Throw the re-tune number up after you get it. Will be interesting to see how much more it has in it, lean is mean just not too lean. @BaysideFab 485WHP * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @gtxracer 393WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @lowpue 345WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @JSETarga 310WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309 WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @NYoutftr 291WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @BaysideFab 259WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263

OK. Here is the dyno readout for my 2004 996 C2 with original engine at about 30k miles, recorded in 2013. Catless exhaust and custom ECU tune.

@Triple Black Thanks a lot for sharing ! Is the yellow (275WHP) pre and green (291 HP) post tune, assuming yes ? Do you what MFG Dyno this was on ? Those TQ drops of 25ish FT/LBS at 2.5K and 3.5K RPM's are weird. Couple of the other users have the similar thing, wonder why that is. I think in your case the scaling of the graph plays a part but those are 2 pretty big dips... @BaysideFab 485WHP * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @gtxracer 393WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @lowpue 345WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @JSETarga 310WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309 WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @NYoutftr 291WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @BaysideFab 259WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263

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Right, I'm assuming the yellow and green are pre and post tune. But this was about 9 years ago. If I was doing it today I'd be more involved and have a lot more info about it. I was a 911 newbie at the time. The engine really doesn't have much pull below about 4K but then it comes on really strong, which suits my driving style just fine. My new(er) indie actually made a comment that it feels almost like a turbo.

Quotes source posts: 18344624, 18323263, 18341989, 18323744, 18321626, 18333851, 18326177, 18344577, 18323263

Maybe a lazy or faulty vario cam solenoid or actuator? Mine had a bad actuator on bank 2 in my dyno graph with the stock m96.

Quotes source post: 18323744

There is no way on god's green earth that a 996 GT3 made 269whp

Quotes source post: 18345101

It didn't. The numbers populating the table at the bottom of the screen are from 6K RPM, where the cursor looks to be. Seems to be highlighting the power difference at 6K. Peak numbers look to be about the same, around 345WHP.

Quotes source post: 18324495

They are less than 30 minutes from .. well i guess i need to stop by and talk with them.

My contribution in from my 02 C2. 4.0, schrick cams, cargraphic exhaust, Evoms CF intake, GT3 plenum and throttle body. /P

Rev’ing it to almost 8K… cool. It’s also nice to see a heavily modded M96, thanks for sharing. What’s up with the EST. Numbers ? Are they factoring in some applied drive train loss factor ?

Yeah I would guess it�s an estimated engine hp applied in the bench. Anyway it�s an awesome ride now with great power and sound with cup uprights with h/r coilovers, gt3 mk2 brakes, full cup exterior, half cage and gt3 buckets. So basically looks and drives like a cup car :-) I dont take any credit for the build though as it was bought this way! Will continue to develop it though and primarily make it lighter.

Quotes source post: 18346119

Awesome, sounds like a cool car for sure. Thanks again for sharing. @BaysideFab 485WHP * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @gtxracer 393WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @Peedster 349WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @lowpue 345WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @JSETarga 310WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309 WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @NYoutftr 291WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @BaysideFab 259WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263

Quotes source post: 18345170

Ahh ok. That makes more sense

Quotes source post: 18345960

Nice!!! Makes me want to dyno my 4.0 to see what it's doing. 4.0, stock cams, ported/polished heads by Hoffman, fabspeed catless exhaust. Stock tune but may need to change that.

Quotes source post: 18347890

You should!! And def need to tune it! Would be interesting to see next step for me, what would you guys recommend? Is there a lot of gain doing the heads or a lot of dollars for small gain? What did your heads cost?

Quotes source post: 18347890

I�d be interested in that. I�m putting money and parts away for the 4.0 upgrade.

Quotes source post: 18321352

2003 manual cabriolet My contribution to this exercise. Keep in mind that I have no clue what I was doing. I just bought a bunch of bolt-ons and hoped for the best. I remember as a young soldier in the late 70s and the joke was �you bought everything on page 123 in the J.C. Whitney catalog.� My intent wasn�t to get a bunch of horses added, I just wanted better throttle response for random spirited driving. Also some of this was for pure maintenance. These are my bolt-ons and modifications: � Coil packs, plugs and wires � Fuel injectors � IDP competition plenum and 82mm throttle body (I think that was the size) � MAF � Top Gear headers � Top Gear 200 Cell cats � Fister mod � 997 air box with standard air filter � SAI � AOS � Engine mounts � Transmission mounts � Oil change Because of some other things going on, I couldn�t get a great explanation for the dyno results. I do recall being told I got some decent gains in the mid-range. Was it worth it? I don�t know, car drives great and very responsive so I�m happy. I am curious about my numbers, are they decent or did I waste a lot of money (it was expensive), effort and time. 911STYL

Per Zbomb's reuqest I wanted to share my car with the thread. I have a 2005 Porsche 996 and decided to go with a Flat 6 Innovations stage 2 4.0 motor. I had previously put on all the bolt on's, intake, exhaust, softronics tune, IPD plenum, etc and saw barely noticeable gains via the butt dyno. These are the results of my Flat 6 innovations motor, measured at the wheels of course. The car has: Speedtech exhaust with high flow cat x pipe, 997 air box - BMC air filter, IPD Plenum, and the upgraded motor. The car is completely different and has more power everywhere, by a lot. I do not think the dyno sheet is accurate however maybe due to heat soak potentially? The reason i say that is when this motor hits 6k RPM's it feels like a turbo kicking in and races to the 7500 redline ( 250 up from the stock redline ). It must have another 20 HP jump in that spot or so it seems. The dyno plot however doesn't show that surge at the end. I do have a GT2 deck lid which pumps cold air right into the intake snorkel so maybe on the road that is optimized. The car also keeps getting stronger as it breaks in, it is noticeably quicker and more responsive at 4500 miles in where I am at now verses when I first flashed the tune after break in. If anyone has any questions on this build feel free to ask.

Quotes source posts: 18348687, 18348885

Thanks for sharing - I'll offer up an opinion on if I thought it was worth it... I'm going to make some assumptions - you ended with 284WHP (I'm throwing out the Mustang to estimated dynojet as it looks unrealistically high, compared to the other cars with similar mods, I would think closer to 300 DJ WHP), if the starting point pre mods was the 251WHP - **** yeah I'd say it's worth it, thats a 33WHP gain. Thanks for sharing man, nice to get one of the benchmark combos up for review. It's a little down on the previous 4.0 that was posted at the peak but this, at least for me, is one of those it's close enough between the different dyno's to be reasonable. @Peedster has Schrick cams on his, if his car is a little higher, that would be a place to look - I don't know what the FSI 4.0 uses for cams. It would be interesting to see after you get some more miles on it if the power picks up in any significant way. Thanks for putting it up man, I appreciate it. @BaysideFab 485WHP * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @gtxracer 393WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @Peedster 349WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @lowpue 345WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 @JSETarga 310WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309 WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @NYoutftr 291WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @BaysideFab 259WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263

@911STYL Hope you don't mind me re-posting a picture of your dyno sheet. Were these runs really 10 minutes apart as the sheet indicates? Was the stock run really before any of the bolt-ons or is this showing us the result of an ECU flash (SMS Stage 2 run)? Potential power adders � IDP competition plenum and 82mm throttle body (I think that was the size) � Top Gear headers � Top Gear 200 Cell cats � Fister mod � 997 air box with standard air filter � SMS tune? Gains of 33 whp and 42 wtq pretty much across the board for less than $5k would be a bargain in the world of NA Porsche. It's just unusual to me to see all gains and no losses across the entire power band in NA. Run 2 almost mirrors run 1 just higher. You appear to have found a magic combination!

Quotes source posts: 18350192, 18323263, 18341989, 18345960, 18323744, 18348885, 18321626, 18333851, 18326177, 18344577, 18348687, 18323263

FSI doesn't do cam's. Their goal is to maintain a large midrange and not to focus on peak. I believe they would do a peaky motor however they do not reccomend it. The dyno chart shown for my car was done at 100 miles on the motor so it was still very fresh and tight. They just port and polish the heads to optimize the flow. They tell me if you go too far opening the heads up you lose midrange which most street drivers want as that is where the car lives. I don't personally think you can get much from these cars without getting inside the engine ( just based on my experience ), they flow what they flow. FSI does it by balancing the engine, higher compression, larger displacement, and the head work. I agree, I want to get it on a dyno with good air pumping into the intake to see what it really makes now that it is somewhat broken in.

Quotes source post: 18350796

On the cams, it does not look like @Peedster case he gave up anything, At 3K RPM, he's at 270 FT/LBS, you're at 255ish. At 3.5K RPM he's at 290 FT/LBS, you're at 285... I have heard the peaky motor thing on cams before and in theory, it certainly could make sense but there is very little, if any evidence of what actually happens. At least in this comparison, I don't see any downside anywhere in the RPM range. As far as the other mods, there is a picture emerging of a path to get to around 300WHP with bolt on's and a tune... @JSETarga 310WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309 WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @NYoutftr 291WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 Thats more than I thought when I started this thread and I'm happy to see it. Those guys above have very repeatable setup's and ended up with relatively repeatable results. That would give me some good confidence that I could go out and get myself 300WHP just by replicating what they did.

Quotes source posts: 18350813, 18321626, 18333851, 18326177, 18344577

I like the thread, definitely interesting collection of data. 290-300 sounds possible. Its tough too because dyno to dyno results can be so different so its hard to compare dyno charts if they were no all done on the same dyno. I'm just fully in the Flat 6 innovation camp of thinking, obviously or I wouldn't have gotten their motor. I talked extensively with Jake about how all these parts work or don't work with cars. He has tested most of the aftermarket parts together and with various configurations. He will tell you straight up what each mod will gain or lose when put on these cars. he won't let you put on many aftermarket mods as he doesn't want his motors compromised by bad modifications. All I know is I had all the bolt on upgrades I could get with a tune and my car feels 50% faster than it did before I got the motor upgrade. The M96 3.6 doesn't typically gain much power with RPM past 4500 RPM, mine now does in a big way. I would love to see someone else with a FSI motor post on here. You never see anyone post them online. I assume because they don't want to be heckled for not gaining 150hp with their investment. My car also had bore scoring starting so it was going to need new cylinders eventually.

Quotes source post: 18350849

Engine builders will certainly build stuff they they know will work, their way. I think for me at least as a curious guy, it’s super interesting to see what makes up the foundational aspects of what they build. In comparing your output to stock, it’s hard to argue, it certainly corrects some of the glaring deficiencies in the stock power delivery, particularly for a street driven example and provides a good increase in power. It looks like in comparison to a stock car, it will be a lot more fun. Now when we compare your graph to some of the bolt on / tune cars what I see is the bolt on cars still have some of that funky power delivery stuff, the dips and bumps in the graphs where yours has a much smoother delivery, but they make good power. If you say that to get to 300WHP you can get there with bolt on’s, which is what the data shows so far, but to get to 330-350, you’re talking about a built 4.0 - that’s really good info for guys that are evaluating their goals. Like, is the extra 30WHP worth the expense and time ? I don’t know, it’s going to be different for everyone. With regards to the lack of FSI graphs, my opinion is people have been left to imagine how much power these builds will make because there is a reluctance from customers and FSI to show them in an open forum, couple people having to use their imagination with the tone of the builder when he was posting on here and yeah - it’s reasonable to imagine expectations may be high, maybe unrealistically so. That’s an easy fix - be transparent, set expectations appropriately and there will be no ammo for anyone to use to heckle.

Quotes source post: 18350796

Will you guys get first dibs on their new 997.1 X51 intakes?

Every street car that I have cammed has always been a disappointment to me. Losing low end torque for high end power and proper idle quality isn�t fun in my book. I can see a slightly larger cam in a 4.0 engine working, but most often a cam that makes good dyno numbers isn�t too fun for daily driving.

My stock 3.4L (125k miles) on a dynojet at Willow Springs. Muffler bypass and deep sump oil pan. 91 octane. Fairly heat soaked with the low numbers.

A much more exotic m97 based 4.0L X51. High compression CP pistons Carillo rods injectors from Injector dynamics X51 heads x51 intake manifold Stepped headers dry sump oiling system Motec ecu and race fuel Designed for strong torque curve not a max hp number. Racing class weight is determined by peak number (+9lbs per hp)

Quotes source post: 18351126

I will end my FSI comments here as I know that is not the point of the thread. FSI has many options for engines and will build them based on what the customer wants out of it. I could have gotten a 4.0 making more power than mine however I opted for mid range as the focus and longevity as a goal. I was actually shocked to have the peak power that I got. Getting some peak number wasn't my goal so they build mine for mid range and longevity with the clearances setup for track use as needed. They have some special motors that make much more power than the standard 4.0L motors. So there are lots of options. Jake is from the old school like me. He would rather someone call him to discuss what he can do verses post things online and let people debate and make assumptions about them. They just don't open bores and heads to make as much power as they can they develop different setups and systems that match the external components to reach specific goals for motors based on their needs.

Quotes source post: 18352580

Is this wheel hp measured with a dyno or corrected? That's a lot of ponys. What is the wheel to crank correction for these cars? Do we have anything empirical on it?

I believe the super flow is an engine dyno, not a chassis dyno. Can you post a chassis sheet ? As the poster above said, will be nice to get some actual drivetrain loss info. Parts list sounds pretty awesome, don't know of anyone running a dry sump on one of these engines so that is pretty cool. @BaysideFab 485WHP * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @gtxracer 393WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @Peedster 349WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @lowpue 345WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 @JSETarga 310WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309 WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @NYoutftr 291WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @BaysideFab 259WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @eric523 249WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576

This was just listed for sale by a FB buddy ($40K). LS7 crate motor that was tuned conservatively for track use according to the owner. @BaysideFab 485WHP * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 zbomb FB buddy 470WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352678 @gtxracer 393WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @Peedster 349WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @lowpue 345WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 @JSETarga 310WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309 WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @NYoutftr 291WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @BaysideFab 259WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @eric523 249WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576

The car didn't last long, sold already.

LS3 combo I found on YT. 426WHP You Tube @BaysideFab 485WHP * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 zbomb FB buddy 470WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352678 Youtube 426WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18353264 @gtxracer 393WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @Peedster 349WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @lowpue 345WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 @JSETarga 310WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309 WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @NYoutftr 291WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @BaysideFab 259WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @eric523 249WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576

Quotes source post: 18348885

Do you still have the Softronic tune? He's dead set against any aftermarket tuning. Apologies for the thread interjection, I'm out.

Quotes source post: 18354010

Feel free to send me a PM if you want to ask anything. FSI tunes the car themselves ( if you opt for that ). I had the option of several tunes but I selected a valet, 91 octane, 93 octane, and 93 octane ( max power ). I just realized yesterday actually that I haven't even tried the max power tune yet! They did ask that I wait until the car is fully broken in before trying it. I could have gotten 95 octane , 100 octane etc but I would have never used those. So to answer your question no they will not use the softronics tune with their motors. I have a tuning dongle and tune for the 996 that I am not using. I do not remember however if it was sold to me specific to my VIN or if it can be used on other cars.

OK - I'll play... Here's the dyno on my car before I got it, prior to dropping a valve seat. 327 max HP, 299 max torque. Built by Tuners Mall in FL. I've yet to get the rebuilt motor dyno'd. Here are some of the mods: - 3.8L Nickies - ARP Connecting rod bolts - LN billet crankshaft to IMS chain tensioner paddles - Fabspeed cold air upgrade tube - Fabspeed X-pipe w/ 200 cell cats and stock mufflers

Thanks for sharing @Jengah - So the graph is the 3.8 or you rebuilt it after the graph to a 3.8... @BaysideFab 485WHP * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 zbomb FB buddy 470WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352678 Youtube 426WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18353264 @gtxracer 393WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @Peedster 349WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @lowpue 345WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 @Jengah 327WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @JSETarga 310WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309 WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @NYoutftr 291WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @BaysideFab 259WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @eric523 249WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576

Quotes source posts: 18354672, 18323263, 18352678, 18353264, 18341989, 18345960, 18323744, 18348885, 18354651, 18321626, 18333851, 18326177, 18344577, 18348687, 18323263, 18352576

This graph is for the previous owner's 3.8L before it blew up. But, I have rebuilt it again and have yet to do a new dyno.

Quotes source post: 18354689

Got it - thanks for clarification and sharing. Seems like good power through the stock mufflers, I wonder if they are a restriction and if so, how much.

Here's the smaller brother FSI 3.8L Stage1. Only external mods are IPD plenum and GT3 throttle body. Engine was built mid 2021. This is after the 100-mile break-in at FSI. This engine never fails to create a smile. I'm at around 7500 miles now. It winds up so fast. It seems the next big step for this would be to get an X-pipe or something. The problem is the hassle with CA emissions. I could do what others do and swap exhausts when smog test is needed. Still undecided.

Quotes source post: 18357400

It looks like you have a real strong motor! Considering I have the 4.0, a 997 air box and an x pipe on mine and only make around 20hp and tq than you I would say yours could make that with some intake and exhaust mods. I have been reviewing some other 3.8 engines I see on here and those really seem to make good power, almost or as much as the 4.0? I am sure it makes more now after break in, mine feels a lot stronger at 4500 miles. I started a thread for FSI motors for a discussion yesterday if you wanted to post this on there.

Quotes source post: 18357400

Thanks for sharing Paul ! Glad you are so happy with it. I also wonder what freeing up the exhaust would do. @BaysideFab 485WHP * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 zbomb FB buddy 470WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352678 Youtube 426WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18353264 @gtxracer 393WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @Peedster 349WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @lowpue 345WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 @Jengah 327WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @golock911 ​​​​​​​ 318WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18357400 @JSETarga 310WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309 WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @NYoutftr 291WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @BaysideFab 259WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @eric523 249WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576

@golock911 - did your build use the total seal rings ? I know only the marketing side of what they do but seems like a really good match for our engines.

Quotes source post: 18357882

It has the CP pistons with the 2nd ring being a total seal ring. Top ring is whatever is standard for the piston. This is the standard ring set FSI uses for this piston on this level build. The CP pistons should increase the compression ratio as well. Don't ask me by how much. These were an upgrade to the JE pistons used in a Stage1. We had some discussion about how valuable the upgrade would be given that it is only a Stage1. We ended up at, it wouldn't hurt.

Cool, thanks Paul… guessing if it’s ok to run on CA91 the compression ratio bump pretty small. That ring should make sure all the available compression stays in the combustion chamber and doesn’t get wasted as blow by. As was said above, looks like a healthy number when compared to the 4.0 and going through the stock exhaust to boot.

You'll soon be able to buy the Flat 6 Innovations X Pipe with removable [V- banded] cats very soon from LN. These are USA made using USA made CARB approved cats.

Quotes source post: 18358843

Not sure what your definition of soon is, but maybe when it's available you can contribute to the thread by posting a dyno sheet - I like that form of marketing a lot better than THE ONLY KIND I have seen you post.... ever.

Quotes source post: 18358855

You are nothing if not consistent

Quotes source post: 18359847

I love that zbomb liked this. He is like guilty as charged! haha. I get where he is coming from too and I felt the same way so I just called Jake to talk to him, from there I was sold on FSI and LN. Best in the biz.

Quotes source post: 18358855

More than likely you won�t get the dyno chart that you are looking for. Setting standards across the board isn�t something that you�ll see from FSI in most cases, since all the development and the target market is their engines. Jake is big on not making claims that can be picked apart and argued with when applied to non- FSI engines, or even older FSI engines that are 2-3 generations behind the current and future offerings. These have been built in house at FSI for a while and sold when they had time to make them. As the backlog is slowly being worked off more of these items will be available through LN. A few of them will be released at Black Friday this year. With so much false advertising and outright lies being spread across the board it is unlikely that the FSI products will ever have publicly posted graphs. Claims that aren�t made can�t be challenged and last time I checked the products didn�t need claims to be made for demand to be at least double what can be supplied. This may not make sense to you, or even to me but it is the way that it is and no one will ever change Jake�s mind. If someone doesn�t like it, there�s always the other guy that will appreciate it and buy it. Where I came from used dyno graphs as their biggest sales tool so it blows my mind to see the opposite in place here. I also see that his idea of not showing the competition what he can do is valuable, since they can just lie and make a graph that shows even more just to try to trump things to make themselves look better. The stories he has told me of this happening back during the aircooled days were very enlightening in regard to understanding his reasons for things.

Quotes source post: 18361605

Blah, blah, blah… this is a dyno sheet thread, read the OP. You use too many words to say too little in my opinion. I didn’t ask Jake for anything, I told you how you could contribute in a meaningful way… you came back with more words that did not.

Quotes source post: 18361688

Where�s your dyno sheet? Just wondering.

Quotes source post: 18361700

I�ve posted 2� You're sad man

Quotes source post: 18361713

Just uninformed and late to the party. Can I ask a question? Why did you open the thread to Honda engines and Chevy engines, but not a Mezger based Porsche engine? Just a random question.

Quotes source posts: 18362128, 18322992

Agreed.

Quotes source post: 18362128

I would assume to keep the turbo and gt guys out . Since the gt3 swap is probably least common swap he figured he was only really excluding me, (there may be more out there but mine and the factory build r the only 2 i have seen in the 5 yrs of p-car ownership). Im in the process of scheduling some dyno time so i can show what a 83k mile gt3 motor can bring to the c2 table.

Why not it�s a good comparison? After all, they are all just air pumps powered by gasoline. It�s time to take the LS1 turbo to the dyno and get the numbers. 530 to 550 is what I expect, at 10psi or so. I really want great street manners with the stock ls6 cam.

I've seen 2 FSI dyno plots here, both on dynojets and both have very similar shapes. They both make very good power over a wide rpm range. The 3.8 peaks somewhere around 320 whp and the 4.0 around 335. That equates to around 365 and 380 crank hp respectively. IMO that's very respectable. The power is increased not only due to displacement but also due to better VE and or thermal efficiency. Most impressive is the broad range. The power curve is very flat from 6 to 7 k If your objective is to make as much power as possible.....who cares? Stuff some boosted 4 cylinder in there. If on the other hand you are interested in how much you can get out of a sweet sounding N/A flat six, or a V8 or a flat 12 etc, then you have to think in terms of volumetric and thermal efficiency.

Here is a list on engines and a comparison of their ability to make power. The two columns labeled figure of merit show how well a engine produces power when normalized for size and rpm. This is a way of looking at volumetric efficiency and thermal efficiency. Its very interesting to note the advances in the last 20 years. peak torque is where an engine is most efficient.

Quotes source post: 18362788

These characteristics have been the goal all along. When you look at the average age of the person who purchases an FSI engine, and you read their descriptions in the "must have" column of their application you'll clearly see that Jake was successful because he met the goals of the actual purchasers. I reviewed 6 applications this week and none of them mentioned peak power as a goal. Peak power is one of the multiple choice selections. What is more important to these people is power that is linear and consistent along with a perfectly smooth idle speed, a clutch that isn't heavier than stock and the engine retaining manners. Jake explained this to me using dirt bikes, and I understood it since I raced MX in my 20s. He said "when we are younger [and dumber] we like the power band of a radical 2 stroke bike. As we age and we change how we ride, the torque of a 4 stroke bike is what we learn to appreciate more and more." I think he has applied this to the way he designs FSI engines, since rarely do we see a graph where peak power is made past 6,500 RPM. I've never seen a rev limit increased beyond stock in the past 7 months of my time working between FSI and LN. From what I can tell the 3.7 and 3.9L "de- stroked" engine combos that FSI has designed for 8,000 RPM capability are the only engines that defy these basic principles. I will say that based on the intake tract development that FSI has completed we are seeing those engines that were making 335 at the wheels instantly increase to 350 or so with the output across the entire power band elevating, with no losses anywhere. Lots of this is just from airbox changes, without even bringing the plenum or runner development into the equation. One of the factory center plenums has excellent characteristics and with an adapted GT3 TB it is a cheap way to gain significant bolt on power. Also, having been present in the FSI engine dyno cell, then seeing the same engine go into a car and onto the chassis dyno the next day, 325 at the wheels with a 996 C2 equates to just under 400 at the crankshaft, both use the same SAE J 1349 correction factors. 335 at the wheels is just over 400 at the crank. FSI buyers seem to know exactly what they do not want.

🤦‍♂️ What is your name and how long have you worked for LN/BRS ?

Quotes source post: 18363128

I bought my first 4 stroke dirtbike in 96....a Husaberg 501. I had decided I was old anyway and would slow down but I really wanted a Husaberg. Well it turned out I had a blast on the track and was faster than I was on my 250s. A typical Porsche makes about 30 to 50 less HP on a dynojet than what they are factory rated.....from what I've observed and measured on my cars. So add that to the 335 and you get 380 ish.

Quotes source post: 18363170

XR600 here. No more CR 250s for me. Seeing the same engine measured at the crank on one day, then fitted to the car the next day on the chassis dyno is eye opening. I learned quickly to throw away the factory ratings. I was forced to hang the calibration weights on the engine dyno myself just to drive the point home.

Quotes source post: 18363177

Anyway, whatever your reference is, 320 hp on a dynojet from a 3.8 at 6500 is considerably more than you would expect from just displacement and indicates better thermal and volumetric efficiency.

Quotes source post: 18363136

Too bad I just open these threads, waiting to see the start of dumpster fires they become. Or the ridiculous tangents they go off on� I would have bet the house the FSI motor thread would have started kindling up by now. On topic. I have nothing to add, other than I�m looking at slower cars with less hp.😎

Quotes source post: 18363128

Sounds like you read my requests. My car is a daily driver that I want to be as reliable as possible, with improved lower and midrange torque, that I can take to the track should I decide to. To me reliability is more important than HP.

Quotes source post: 18363205

I have nothing to contribute to that thread. So I don�t. It�s really too bad @BRS-LN can�t do the same and keep the marketing and Jake, Jake, Jake and more Jake out of threads with which it does not contribute to the topic. Maybe @Charles Navarro pays him by the word.

Also, having been present in the FSI engine dyno cell, then seeing the same engine go into a car and onto the chassis dyno the next day, 325 at the wheels with a 996 C2 equates to just under 400 at the crankshaft, both use the same SAE J 1349 correction factors. 335 at the wheels is just over 400 at the crank. That's a good piece of data. So roughly 17% drivetrain loss at this hp level on those dynos.

Quotes source post: 18363363

Lots of variables there. Alignment and gearbox wear are big question marks. Nothing seems to kill rear wheel numbers like a track alignment.

Quotes source post: 18363249

This is exactly the request that I see mentioned in every application that we review as a team. Making solid power at every RPM range without needing to extend the rev limiter is both hard to accomplish, and appreciated by those that invest in FSI.

It is amazing how this thread has been hijacked to be about FSI engines.

Quotes source post: 18363582

Today's word count FSI 11 Jake 6 (to be fair 4 of those were @zbomb s) Edit; I guess I just added 1 to each myself!

You will have to excuse me, because I havent completely formulated this but: The figure of merit data is pretty profound: If we look at the GT3s, Ferrari, honda 2000, that that number and look at the difference between that and the M96 engines, there is a little, but not a huge room for improvement. In addition I would think that claims to make naturally aspirated engines a whole lot more powerful would be questionable. Of course given reliability drivability and peak rpms. Even the vette is significantly lower. The idea that someone with a low budget could best the best engine builders in the world is silly. Now there is absolutely room for more reliability by addressing poor engineering decisions, see IMS and Locasil. Although there may be a marketing logic for de tuned lower models, the idea that the engineers of these cars left easy horsepower on the table is absurd. it's like that saying you can have good, fast or cheap, pick 2. Hp and drivability, or emissions or durability or cheap. You can't have them all. If one is interested: The Secret Horsepower Race: Western Front Fighter Engine Development https://a.co/d/gpX7sbv

A couple comments based on the two FSI dynojet plots in the thread. If I estimate crank HP based on what I've seen you get the Figure of Merit below. It becomes evident these are torque monsters. I wish I had the formula because I'd love to have one....but I can't afford to buy one. They hold peak horsepower for so long its hard to assign an rpm to it!

Can you take the crank estimated HP talk to another thread, it has no place here - read the OP. Again� people talking about Hp numbers with nothing to back it up� exactly what I didn�t want this thread to turn into. Thanks.

Quotes source post: 18363951

Maybe you missed the logic whilst having a titty baby fit. If you know a typical 996 delivers 250 to 280 RWHP on a dynojet, You subtract that number from 300 or 320 and you get some 40 to 50 HP. That means you can add 40 to 50 HP to a similar car's RWHP to arrive at crank HP. This is because the losses are similar. It's a pretty good "estimate". BTW, you should be very impressed with the two FSI, Dynojet measurements

Again - take your crank HP estimates somewhere else. It�s pretty simple, someone of your analytical prowess should easily understand why it doesn�t fit here. The thread is about actual results people are seeing� ACTUAL RESULTS. Jeesh, this place sucks sometimes, it�s totally fine for vendors and their sycophants to trash a thread� cause they don�t like that the data reflects you can come damn close to recreating their output with common bolt ons for a very small percentage of the cost. I get it, must be tough after spending so much time tying to keep that info in the dark. So�. OBFUSCATE�.. throw a lot of words, estimates, etc�. All to justify the value of something which cannot be justified as a value conventionally, using simple chassis dyno graphs that are easily understood. Your engine stand graphs, they�re great for development - they mean nothing to me where I live, in the real world, on a road.

Quotes source post: 18364024

You should be interested in what is possible and whats been done. Then you're better equipped to assess whether someone is lying or not

Quotes source post: 18364033

I am. See below. @BaysideFab 485WHP * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 zbomb FB buddy 470WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352678 Youtube 426WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18353264 @gtxracer 393WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @Peedster 349WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @lowpue 345WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 @Jengah 327WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @golock911 ​​​​​​​ 318WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18357400 @JSETarga 310WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309 WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @NYoutftr 291WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @BaysideFab 259WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @eric523 249WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576

Quotes source post: 18363998

Actually, no, this is not true. Dynos show real HP at the wheels which is more important than crank HP. Crank HP is for people looking to boast higher numbers. Parasitic losses are calculated as percentages, not in set HP numbers. A car making 800 chp will have a different parasitic loss than a car making 500 chp. Again, crank hp is not helpful to someone looking for recipes and outputs at the wheel. OP asked for dyno sheets. If you don't have one, it's okay to not post -from a guy that actually posted a dyno sheet

Quotes source post: 18364134

I could post a "dyno sheet" from a Land Rover and it would have the same significance as yours. JohnCA58, you're an idiot too

Touche

Quotes source posts: 18364248, 18321352

No it wouldn�t. In fact, nothing you have posted in here is significant to the thread. Your insignificance is genuinely significant. Congrats. ​​​​​​​

Quotes source post: 18364269

​​​​​​​Oh sorry, I meant if the Land Rover engine was jammed in to a 996....that would make it significant!

Quotes source post: 18364329

I would suggest something other than a Rover V8... Maybe an LS7 ? 3K RPM FSI 4.0 TQ 255 HP 150 LS7 TQ 380 HP 220 FSI 4.0 down 125 FT/LBS and 70 WHP 3.5K RPM FSI 4.0 TQ 290 HP 200 LS7 TQ 390 HP 270 FSI 4.0 down 100 FT/LBS and 70 WHP 4K RPM FSI 4.0 TQ 310 HP 240 LS7 TQ 410 HP 310 FSI 4.0 down 100 FT/LBS and 70 WHP 4.5K RPM FSI 4.0 TQ 310 HP 260 LS7 TQ 420 HP 360 FSI 4.0 down 110 FT/LBS and 100 WHP 5K RPM FSI 4.0 TQ 315 HP 300 LS7 TQ 425 HP 410 FSI down 110 FT/LBS and 110 WHP 5.5K RPM FSI 4.0 TQ 300 HP 310 LS7 TQ 420 HP 440 FSI 4.0 down 120 FT/LBS 130 WHP 6K RPM FSI 4.0 TQ 290 HP 330 LS7 TQ 400 HP 460 FSI 4.0 down 110 FT/LBS and 130 WHP 6.5K RPM FSI 4.0 TQ 275 HP 335 LS7 TQ 380 HP 470 FSI 4.0 down 105 FT/LBS and 135 WHP

Jason I get the power difference but your comparison is not apples to apple isn’t the Chevy a 7 liter compared to to FSI 4 Liter it’s obvious that power hp/tq will be a lot less maybe a 5 liter might be closer ?

Quotes source post: 18364520

It's not an exercise in displacement, its an exercise in... Hey ! I want to do something to my non turbo, non GT 996... what are my options. This is an option, you can do it - and, thats what you get if you do. Both setups are easily ($) recreate-able, comparing options is something we do every day in multiple aspects of life, why should this be any different ? It's an apples to apples comparison for me, because they are both in the same chassis, thats the point. For all the people who are saying that the low end response is their jam - maybe this comparison is helpful. For all the people saying big HP is their jam - maybe this comparison is helpful... haha.

Quotes source post: 18364520

Think of it more as a money to performance comparison. What does the cheapest FSI engine cost? 20K and a year wait (and requires your engine as a core)? Alternatively, if you sell a decent running M96 for, say, 6K, you can do an LS swap for less than 10K all in. Another 5K and you can have a bulletproof track set up with an easy, under stressed 400whp. This equation obviously only works for people who can do the project themselves and know something about wrenching.

Yes I get the price/performance balance and it really is a great cost/power alternative to an rebuilt m96 my response was the correlation between a 5liter Chevy to an 4.0 FSI (or any rebuilders engine) those numbers I would to see the efficiency difference and if anyone is going GM motor the biggest you can get the better I guess

The only thing is I would never want an LS in a Porsche. FSI has the oiling issues solved with their builds so oiling will not be an issue. If someone is really concerned about it you could get the oil scavenge pumps for the heads along with their baffled deep sump sold at LN for additional security and most certainly be good. There is no comparison in sound and feel of a flat 6 compared to an LS in my opinion. I love the sound and feel of the FSI flat 6 and would never remove a motor like that for a LS v8. The sound of it echoing off the trees gets me every time. Lifetime support and being part of the FSI community is invaluable to me as well. For the people that like the LS and want to go that route, that is cool if that is what your thing is. Sounds like a more affordable and more powerful option if that is your goal.

[QUOTE=2005 996 C4S;18367511]. If someone is really concerned about it you could get the oil scavenge pumps for the heads along with their baffled deep sump sold at LN for additional security and most certainly be good. ] The problem is that all of the marketing that has been thrown at us to convince us that this is true has been proven false with data collection. Back on topic..... hopefully ill get my dyno time in the next 30 days to see what a 85k mile gt3ish motor puts down in a c2.

While I agree with @zbomb that the thread is suffering from a bit of drift with the FSI talk, I believe we do have 2 graphs of FSI engines. The LN responses tended to be in response to comments about FSI engines as well, so it is not 100% out of line. Finally some good points are being made about just how many factors affect WHP dyno figures. A race oriented alignment steals dyno HP?!? Wow. I'm learning stuff here.

Here's mine. 1999C2 3.4L rebuilt as 3.8L. The dyno chart title says 4.0 but it really is 3.8L The before in this case was done after the build to 3.8L and the after is with the dyno tune which better matched the various changes to work together.

Quotes source post: 18381442

What a crazy drop in tq/hp at 6krpm.......... looks like knock control kicking in (retarding timing ?) from the Wevo SS mounts ?? Looks like the tuner was able to "fix" it and then some...

I wondered the same thing at the time based on some comments and video from Jake R so i went back to factory OEM mounts earlier this summer just to be sure.

Quotes source post: 18382002

Yep, looks like the 2nd order vibrations/knock retard started at 5700 RPM and the tuner saw that and tuned it out... I bet by going back to the stock mounts you picked up some power at 2850 RPM also.... according to the graph looks like the 1st order vibration/knock retard starts at 2850 RPM and was not tuned out by the Tuner, but going back to stock mounts probably cured this dip also... A 3rd order vibration would have shown up at 10,400 RPM , lol...... had the engine been reved this far..I have dealt with 3rd order vibrations back in the day , they are WICKED....lol

Quotes source post: 18381442

Thanks for sharing ! And yeah, the dips are interesting. What peaks my interest on the 2nd one, if it was knock control, I would expect to see the AFR go rich - in your case, it goes lean. Having the AFR go lean in an engine stress event like the introduction of knock control timing retardation is not what I would think the best scenario. I don't know anything about the factory knock control strategy so just my observation, that behavior may be totally normal for all I know. Glad the tuner was able to work it out - looks like on your setup the tune was an absolute must to take advantage of the rest of the combination. @BaysideFab 485WHP * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 zbomb FB buddy 470WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352678 Youtube 426WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18353264 @gtxracer 393WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @Peedster 349WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @lowpue 345WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 @Jengah 327WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @golock911 ​​​​​​​ 318WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18357400 @pszikla ​​​​​​​ 318WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18381442 @JSETarga 310WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309 WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @NYoutftr 291WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @BaysideFab 259WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @eric523 249WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576 ​​​​​​​

AFR numbers from 02 Sensors are not always what they seem.. 02 sensors read Oxygen only and are not infallible... After combustion the 02 Sensor reads Oxygen content only.. If a spark event is missing ( missfire) there will be extra Oxygen AND fuel in the exhaust , but the 02 Sensor will only notice the Oxygen..therefore show lean when in reality the AFR was correct going IN to the cylinder.. Same thing happens to a lesser extent when timing is retarded, timing is retarded to control knock by lessening the combustion pressures, by not having "complete combustion" ' of the A/F mixture . The incomplete combustion from retarded ignition timing causes extra Oxygen AND fuel to be in the exhaust but the 02 sensor only reads the Oxygen and therefore reads lean when infact the correct A/F may have been going IN to the cylinder...

Quotes source post: 18383643

Are you sure the above is accurate ? We’re talking about a knock control strategy where ignition timing is retarded, not advanced. How are you retarding the ignition event to such an extent that you are not seeing full combustion ? The AFR is set when the intake valve closes, retarding the ignition event gives MORE time for a full combustion event, although at a far lower cylinder pressure. It is the lower combustion pressure that reduces knock, not incomplete combustion, I think that would be referred to as a misfire. I don’t see how there is an affect on AFR in this scenario. Maybe you can explain, I would like to know where my thinking is off.

Quotes source post: 18383682

Remember, this is not an "actual knock", this is a vibration that is "incorrectly interpreted as a knock".... The ignition timing didn't actually "need" to be retarded, as shown by the after tune graph.. Retarding the timing an unnecessary amount causes incomplete combustion..

This is a 5 chain engine. Couldn't the dips be the Variocam disengaging after ~5500 RPM? And then the RSP tech tuned it to stay engaged, if this is possible? The graph begins after 1500 so can't see the effect down low, not that it matters.

Quotes source post: 18384086

You're just dreaming up stuff, no, it couldn't...lol...The vario-cam on a 5 chain is either OFF or ON , it switches at 1200rpm and then again 5120rpm...

Quotes source post: 18384150

A little bit of a harsh response to my question, but ok, I guess that happens once in a while from some here on RL Of course it is either On/Off, but it does this off at approximately at 5500 RPM. This is pretty consistant with the actuator loosing oil pressure after turning off and the dyno chart. Source:

Interesting for sure. Is there a way to chart the timing to see if it actually was retarded during those dips?

Quotes source post: 18384245

Yes of course the Tuner would have had the timing curve along with the fuel cure available to be able to "Tune".. That is normally what is "tuned' when on a dyno, either fuel or timing or both....on N/A cars ....

Quotes source post: 18384199

I was wondering where you got the 5500rpm from...the actual rpm for 986.1 and 996.1 is 1200rpm and 5120rpm and is a long way from the graph which "starts at about 5700rpm and carries through 6000rpm...and without a reasonable explanation as to "why" there would be a lose of vario-cam function, it is a very far fetched idea..ie not plausible....

Quotes source post: 18322809

loud pipes save lives

Quotes source post: 18381442

Thanks for showing this. Very interesting. Did the tuner see your ignition timing retarded at the dips?

Here�s another FSI 4.0. Got the graph from @schroederhc1 �s BAT add. His car is amazingly clean by the way and the car looks extremely well represented. Hope he gets a boat load for it. https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...arrera-4s-110/ He also included his FSI paperwork which is great cause it allows a price perspective to be added to the performance above.

Not my car but following a BaT auction for a 40th Anniversary car and the owner posted a dyno graph for a stock M96 with X51 Power Package. According to the auction notes, the engine was a factory replacement and the owner wanted to verify that it was indeed a complete X51 model.

List updated. @BaysideFab 485WHP * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 zbomb FB buddy 470WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352678 Youtube 426WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18353264 @gtxracer 393WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @Peedster 349WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @lowpue 345WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 @Jengah 327WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @schroederhc1 324WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18418970 @golock911 ​​​​​​​ 318WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18357400 @pszikla ​​​​​​​ 318WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18381442 @JSETarga 310WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ BAT X51 304WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @NYoutftr 291WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @BaysideFab 259WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @eric523 249WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576 ​​​​​​​ ​​​​​​​

Quotes source post: 18321352

Great idea. Thanks zbomb!

FSI 4.0 from a BaT auction. @BaysideFab 485WHP * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 zbomb FB buddy 470WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352678 Youtube 426WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18353264 @gtxracer 393WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @Peedster 349WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @lowpue 345WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 @Jengah 327WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @schroederhc1 324WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18418970 @golock911 ​​​​​​​ 318WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18357400 @pszikla ​​​​​​​ 318WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18381442 4.0 FSI BAT Auction 311WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @JSETarga 310WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ BAT X51 304WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @NYoutftr 291WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @BaysideFab 259WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @eric523 249WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576

Would have been nice to see what the A/F ratio was doing on that last dyno.

Not bad for an engine built 6 years ago. Lots has been improved in the Stage II builds since then. @zbomb , it would be nice if the engines were marked in your list above to show whether they were M96, LS swaps, or K-swaps, or...

Quotes source post: 18479111

Good idea Bruce. @BaysideFab 485WHP Honda K Series * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 zbomb FB buddy 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352678 Youtube 426WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18353264 @gtxracer 393WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @Peedster 349WHP M96 4.0 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @lowpue 345WHP 997 M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP M96 4,0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 @Jengah 327WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @schroederhc1 324WHP M96 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18418970 @golock911 ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18357400 @pszikla ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18381442 4.0 FSI BAT Auction 311WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @JSETarga 310WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ BAT X51 304WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @NYoutftr 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @BaysideFab 259WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @eric523 249WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576 ​​​​​​​

Here is mine

Quotes source post: 18550067

Another example of a 300WHP bolt on car. Thanks for sharing @Justin76 Mods That makes 5 M96 bolt on cars and 1 X51 package between 290 and 310HP... @BaysideFab 485WHP Honda K Series * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 zbomb FB buddy 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352678 Youtube 426WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18353264 @gtxracer 393WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @Peedster 349WHP M96 4.0 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @lowpue 345WHP 997 M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP M96 4,0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 @Jengah 327WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @schroederhc1 324WHP M96 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18418970 @golock911 ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18357400 @pszikla ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18381442 4.0 FSI BAT Auction 311WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @JSETarga 310WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ BAT X51 304WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Justin76 ​​​​​​​ 301WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18550017 @NYoutftr 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @BaysideFab 259WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @eric523 249WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576

@Justin76 Impressive numbers for a bolt-on 3.6. Is this SAE correction and pump fuel?

Quotes source post: 18550478

correct .. gas was 93 vs 91 that some have to use.. and thank you

Vivid Racing 3.6 race car. 325 WHP ETA... From the comments, its Paul Tracy's car - pretty cool he had a 996. You Tube @BaysideFab 485WHP Honda K Series * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 zbomb FB buddy 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352678 Youtube 426WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18353264 @gtxracer 393WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @Peedster 349WHP M96 4.0 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @lowpue 345WHP 997 M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP M96 4,0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 @Jengah 327WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Vivid Race Car 325WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @schroederhc1 324WHP M96 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18418970 @golock911 ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18357400 @pszikla ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18381442 4.0 FSI BAT Auction 311WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @JSETarga 310WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ BAT X51 304WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Justin76 ​​​​​​​ 301WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18550017 @NYoutftr 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @BaysideFab 259WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @eric523 249WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576

I don't have a lot of details on this one, sent to me off a FB M96 engine group. I do know it is a Hartech 4.1 and the dyno graph that was produced is from a chassis dynamometer. Big power compared to what we have seen, Highest M96 yet. If anyone has more details, feel free to share. As these engines were not previously available in the US, it would not have met the criteria of being an engine most of us could attain but I believe that has changed. If I am wrong and you cannot purchase, I will be happy to remove. @BaysideFab 485WHP Honda K Series * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 zbomb FB buddy 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352678 Youtube 426WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18353264 @gtxracer 393WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 Hartech from FB 370WHP M96 4.1 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18597947 @Peedster 349WHP M96 4.0 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @lowpue 345WHP 997 M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP M96 4,0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 @Jengah 327WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Vivid Race Car 325WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @schroederhc1 324WHP M96 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18418970 @golock911 ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18357400 @pszikla ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18381442 4.0 FSI BAT Auction 311WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @JSETarga 310WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ BAT X51 304WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Justin76 ​​​​​​​ 301WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18550017 @NYoutftr 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @BaysideFab 259WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @eric523 249WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576

DIN HP ( din) or BRAKE HP ( bhp) is commonly used in the UK ... SAE HP is commonly used in the US

Quotes source post: 18598291

so it's 365.4 SAE

Quotes source post: 18598363

Yes, but not WHP

The graph doesn’t reflect BHP - it says HP. Since it was measured on a rolling road, I’m referring to it as WHP.

Quotes source post: 18598402

I quick Google search shows I was right..... Wayne Schofield at Chipwizards has always shown Dyno Horsepower at the flywheel ( BHP ) from his rolling road.. It is common practice for the dyno to make measurements then corrections and calculations from actual Torque to whatever "hp" figures they want... Custom Map by Wayne Schofield at Chipwizards in Rochdale, 487.7bhp @ flywheel, 546ft/lb @ 3500rpm. The front propshaft has been removed for the 2wd mapping process. Totally standard 996 Turbo (K16's). You Tube

I don't see whatever you are trying to show me, I watched the video. If you can show me where it is confirmed the number is BHP, happy to edit the post with the graph. I have spent A LOT of time on chassis dynos, specifically dyno dynamics but dynojet also - What you are saying is common, is totally uncommon for me.

Quotes source post: 18598523

If you click the actual Youtube video and watch the video on Youtube and look at the description you will see. ( I have added the description to my comment also) Other work from Wayne shows the same pattern....

OK - but that isn't the graph we are looking at and I didn't see a graph that matches the format posted... I'll ask the person that sent me the graph to see if they can confirm.

Quotes source post: 18598553

Cool, and if Wayne HAS changed his MO after all these years,,,there must be a GOOD reason....

Quotes source post: 18598545

also if you watch the end of the video the graph shows it's roughly 350 on graph.. so that video proves nothing and it confusing as crap.. not to mention it's a 13 years old video.. I'm sure things have changed

Quotes source post: 18598603

Things are done differently in different parts of the world..ROW..

The Dyna- PAC hub dyno and Land And Sea rolling road dyno that we had at my old job both had a graph option to utilize percentages of drive train loss in the graphs to illustrate crank HP figures. I think that is what we are seeing here. Tests performed at the wheels with percentages of drivetrain loss figured into the graphs to plot crank/ flywheel power. That�s just assumption, and could be completely inaccurate. We always plotted the figures on those dynos as dual plots, showing wheel power and the calculated power in the same plots. I know that the Dynojet rolling roads do not offer this graphing option.

Quotes source post: 18598725

Post a graph of an engine you sell. What are you doing in this thread if you’re not doing that ? I value your opinion of engines and data that aren’t yours, none at all until you put your money where your mouth is and provide something of value. All you do is talk. ETA. I had always thought that Charles was a pretty smart guy… that was until he gave you the keys to represent his company here. He brought facts and although I disagreed with him on efficacy occasionally, at least he wasn’t a straight up junior sales guy.

Quotes source post: 18598643

You�re correct in all you�ve said about Wayne Schofield here in the UK. This is his dyno curve from my Mk 1 996 GT3 fitted with a factory Motorsport Department 2009 3.6 Cup engine with some trick inconel headers, lightweight big bore silencers and decat. Wayne engineered the strategy for the two resonance flaps from scratch, and designed and installed the driver�s and operating systems for them. Having done so he then mapped the whole lot. His dyno curve shows 465.7 flywheel BHP and 404.8 wheel BHP. Apologies for the poor quality of the image, it was screen grab taken by Wayne.

Quotes source post: 18598759

so the graph is whp and flywheel this graph is only showing whp as the 404 whp is shown on the graph not the flywheel. Also by the looks of things he either has upgraded his system of has a way to show the graph and information better than this dot matrix image. Geez you guys need to upgrade systems over there my gosh.. do you even have HD television at this point

Quotes source post: 18598759

It's not a print out (as I posted) AND BHP is clearly labeled as BHP - which it is not in the graph I posted. If the graph can be confirmed to be BHP, I will take it down.

That 4.1 mapped by Wayne will be Hartech�s development car. I believe it�s a 996.2 Cabriolet or Targa, but don�t quote me on the last bit. It may be running some Top Gear headers, but that�s probably it. In addition to the 370BHP it also has a nice big slab of torque, so would make a cracking road car. I was set to drive it last December, but decided to wait until the weather is better in the Spring. I�d say there�s between 15-25BHP to come out of it with some further fairly straightforward mods. There�s also a Hartech 3.9 conversion in a 996.2 in the UK, it�s fitted with some cheap aftermarket (Top Gear) headers and a 997 airbox and it made 366 BHP and 324 torques on Wayne�s dyno.

Quotes source post: 18598778

You can believe or disbelieve what you want, I�ve been transparent the curve I�ve shown was for a Mezger, and unlike you, I�ve no axe to grind or indeed skin in the game. You clearly stated Wayne�s dyno and it�s readout/printouts don�t show BHP. My screenshot of the curve (taken by Wayne) shows it does. End of. If you feel so strongly about the lack of BHP in the dyno chart, give Wayne a call or drop him an email, but don�t expect a quick response, as he�s far too busy to drop everything to settle petty arguments on Internet forums. Here�s his website : https://chipwizards.co.uk And this is the dyno sheet for the 3.9 conversion I mentioned. To the best of my knowledge only Wayne does Hartech�s mapping, but this may be Hartech�s own dyno sheet : I have to say it never ceases to amaze me that the likes of Charles and Jake spend numerous hours posting on RL, only to be frequently met with outright hostility from some of the more verbose contributors on here. I�ve no doubt Jake won�t miss it one bit.

Quotes source posts: 18598817, 18598778

Are we not speaking the same English - I know some things changed over here after we kicked George out but I think for the most part, we should be able to understand each other through written communication. Everything you are posting calls BHP out as BHP - the graph I posted does not say BHP, anywhere. You may very well be right, but I am trying to confirm that before I take it down. I'm happy I could provide some amazement to your day.

Quotes source post: 18598735

I shared my prior experience with two dynos that offered data gathered at the wheels/ hubs and offered the ability to plot this as flywheel/ crank data. This loosely supported what Porschetech3 was stating. Nothing more. I e seen a lot of things across various industries in the automotive world. I�ve never seen someone so interested in Porsche engine performance, but the same person isn�t even concerned with retaining a Porsche engine, in their own Porsche. Why care about the performance of these engines? BTW- I�m not in sales at all, but I do have a Porsche engine in my VW.

Quotes source post: 18598850

Because I want these cars to kick *** on the road and the track for a long time to come. I'm interested in engine performance - In a Porsche. I've never seen a vendor so interested in talking about engine performance that refuses to post dyno graphs for the engines they produce.

Quotes source post: 18598855

Jake was always adamant about why he didn�t post the graphs. He pointed at a German phrase on his wall in the engine room and said �figure that out�. It took me a while but I learned that the phrase said �the enemy is always listening�. It was used in German radio vehicles in WW2. When I told him a few days that I understood it he then explained that if the graphs are posted there�s nothing to stop the other guy from just lying and making his numbers bigger. That may not make people happy, but I learned quickly that he didn�t care about that. Here�s one from last week. Ran out of injector, this run was with max duty cycle. This is a customer�s engine and one like it can be purchased. You can figure out what size it is, and guess at what it costs. Yes, it is an M9X and started life as a 3.6. I performed this test myself. These are wheel HO figures from the FSI Dynojet model 248. We only did 3 runs and stopped because it was too lean. Turned up the fuel pressure and still it was too lean. The plots are bumpy because of the lean condition. I�m sure you won�t be happy, but at least you got a graph.

Quotes source post: 18598885

Thanks for sharing ! Great number. @BaysideFab 485WHP Honda K Series * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 zbomb FB buddy 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352678 Youtube 426WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18353264 @gtxracer 393WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @BRS-LN 382WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Hartech from FB 370WHP M96 4.1 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18597947 @Peedster 349WHP M96 4.0 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @lowpue 345WHP 997 M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP M96 4,0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 @Jengah 327WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Vivid Race Car 325WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @schroederhc1 324WHP M96 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18418970 @golock911 ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18357400 @pszikla ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18381442 4.0 FSI BAT Auction 311WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @JSETarga 310WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ BAT X51 304WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Justin76 ​​​​​​​ 301WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18550017 @NYoutftr 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @BaysideFab 259WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @eric523 249WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576

Quotes source posts: 18598817, 18598773

I suspect Wayne�s too busy living in the real world/earning a living by maximising BHP figures along with optimising drivability, to worry about proving his abilities with nice graphs, to folk on the Internet HD TV ? Another pointless gimmick sold to the masses as a �must have� in their lives. I believe we do have it, but don�t take my word for it, you�re very welcome to head over the pond and see for yourself, after all we wouldn�t want anyone thinking you guys are parochial

Quotes source posts: 18598885, 18598885

How well did that work out for the Germans in WW2? I've been testing / tuning / building longer than 996 engine has existed, and I've always shared full details, including dyno graphs. I leaned a long time ago dealing with folks who always want to play the "smoke and mirrors" game, just let your work speak for itself, be damned what the other guy might post or say. There's always going to be someone cheaper, someone with a higher number, someone with a cuter girlfriend, a bigger house, larger bank account, smarter kids....... so what? 7.888 billion people on the planet, ye'aint gonna win them all.

Add it to the top!! Note: Alternator was dropping from 13.8v to 10.5v arounds 6k rpms. Getting that resolved plus doing some other thing to get Air Conditioning working thru the Haltech and retune. Fully built K24 on low boost. Great street car power and fun to drive.

Quotes source post: 18598855

You wouldn't understand dude, it's about the full experience of being bent over for $1000 per horsepower.

Quotes source post: 18677881

You�re looking for a more cost effective way of receiving the full experience of being bent over? Okay Not that there�s anything wrong with that.

Quotes source post: 18677797

Nice man ! Happy to see the progression and from the looks of it, the thing must be a hoot. @BaysideFab 511WHP Honda K Series https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18677797 @BaysideFab 485WHP Honda K Series * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 zbomb FB buddy 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352678 Youtube 426WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18353264 @gtxracer 393WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @BRS-LN 382WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Hartech from FB 370WHP M96 4.1 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18597947 @Peedster 349WHP M96 4.0 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @lowpue 345WHP 997 M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP M96 4,0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 @Jengah 327WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Vivid Race Car 325WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @schroederhc1 324WHP M96 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18418970 @golock911 ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18357400 @pszikla ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18381442 4.0 FSI BAT Auction 311WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @JSETarga 310WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ BAT X51 304WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Justin76 ​​​​​​​ 301WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18550017 @NYoutftr 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @BaysideFab 259WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @eric523 249WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576

Here's mine... 996.1, 92k miles. Only thing that could affect power is a factory muffler delete, 7" race mufflers in their place.

My Hartech 3.9 complete oversize conversion Hartech 3.9 torque build

Quotes source posts: 18686609, 18686845

Thanks for sharing ! On the Hartech sheet, it's referencing BHP so not going to include it in the list but I appreciate it being shared for another data point. @BaysideFab 511WHP Honda K Series https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18677797 @BaysideFab 485WHP Honda K Series * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 zbomb FB buddy 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352678 Youtube 426WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18353264 @gtxracer 393WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @BRS-LN 382WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Hartech from FB 370WHP M96 4.1 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18597947 @Peedster 349WHP M96 4.0 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @lowpue 345WHP 997 M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP M96 4,0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 @Jengah 327WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Vivid Race Car 325WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @schroederhc1 324WHP M96 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18418970 @golock911 ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18357400 @pszikla ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18381442 4.0 FSI BAT Auction 311WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @JSETarga 310WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ BAT X51 304WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Justin76 ​​​​​​​ 301WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18550017 @NYoutftr 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @RubberDuckie39 264WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18686609 @BaysideFab 259WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @eric523 249WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576

Quotes source post: 18686912

They're virtually identical. https://www.parkers.co.uk/what-is/hp-horsepower

Quotes source post: 18687155

BHP is not WHP. So, what is brake horsepower (bhp) ? Brake horsepower is a measurement of the engine�s power taken at the flywheel or crankshaft without the engine losing power due to drivetrain and gearbox resistance

Quotes source post: 18687313

I'd like @zagamuffin to weigh in. Were those numbers obtained on a wheel dyno or an engine dyno? The numbers don't make sense for a 3.9L hot rod motor unless they're at the wheel, which is why I'd like clarification.

Looks like a wheel dyno, it shows MPH

Quotes source post: 18687977

wdb it was on a rolling road , wheel dyno

Fun fact: For the term �brake horsepower�, thank Gaspard de Prony, inventor of the Prony brake (circa 1820�s). The Prony method (bhp) measures engine torque at the flywheel. Sounds familiar. The geriatric bhp method was commonly used to measure pulling capabilities of tractor engines in the early 1900�s. When I look at the dyno sheet from Chipwizards, I can�t tell if the whp was measured and bhp was calculated, or vice versa. Bhp and net standard SAE dyno results are super close, both being crank-derived measurements without down line power loss being factored. Bottom line: No matter where measured, if you know the density of the air, the torque at any given rpm, the resistance from outside systems (driveline) as precisely as possible, you can calculate whp within 1.5% from bhp or hp. So within + or - 5 whp seems good enough for me. *For Discussion Purposes Only* of course! That said, does anyone have the gouge on no-bull driveline loss numbers for our cars? C2/C4/C4S?

Quotes source post: 18598516

I'll buy this, as it says 48x hp @ flywheel. That's where std K16's are maxed out. Anyway, post me your mass airflow log (=MAF) and I'll say how much hp the engine gives out. Or you can calculate it yourself...if the MAF just is new(ish): kg/h x 0.35 or g/sec / 0.8 Simple as that.

Quotes source post: 18688438

Yep I concur ...I did a thread an ongoing thread on this subject here ...... https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...potential.html ... If you log MAF vs RPM at 2k 3k 4k 5k 6k using Durametric or PIWIS, you can get horsepower numbers all up the RPM range and use that to evaluate your new exhaust, ot heads, cams, big bore ect...... You can't use MAF/housing to evaluate another intake/air box though without a redundant MAF/housing as seen in the thread.....the Fabspeed intake was over-reporting as we concluded..

2001 996 3.4 Installed in a Boxster race car. Mods: Dry Sump Carrillo Rods Motec M130 ECU Chinese Ebay headers which are too small 2.5 inch tailpipes, no mufflers Open intake prior to throttle

Quotes source post: 18711776

Thanks for putting it up - I think good to go since it's a 996 motor in a boxster... Won't be the only dry sump motor on the list for long, although willing to bet it will maintain being the only dry sump M96 for a long, long time. @BaysideFab 511WHP Honda K Series https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18677797 @BaysideFab 485WHP Honda K Series * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 zbomb FB buddy 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352678 Youtube 426WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18353264 @gtxracer 393WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @BRS-LN 382WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Hartech from FB 370WHP M96 4.1 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18597947 @Peedster 349WHP M96 4.0 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @lowpue 345WHP 997 M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP M96 4,0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 @Jengah 327WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Vivid Race Car 325WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @schroederhc1 324WHP M96 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18418970 @golock911 ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18357400 @pszikla ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18381442 4.0 FSI BAT Auction 311WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @JSETarga 310WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ BAT X51 304WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Justin76 ​​​​​​​ 301WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18550017 @NYoutftr 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @CTS 287WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @RubberDuckie39 264WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18686609 @BaysideFab 259WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @eric523 249WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576

2003 C2. Stock 3.6 motor, stock exhaust, stock intake. This motor suffered an IMSB failure prior to my ownership and was rebuilt by the dealer 5 or 6 years ago with a new short block. 61k total miles and ~15k miles on the rebuild. Rainy 42 degree day at ~200 feet above sea level. RPM was calculated by speed and gearing. Variocam Plus action is easily identified. I think these are solid baseline numbers and I should be happy. The shop owner said they see a lot of BMW there and the numbers are close to what they usually see on a stock E46 M3.

Quotes source post: 18721473

Thanks for sharing ! You are right at what I thought mine was making. Would you mind sharing the shop for a fellow MA guy ? @BaysideFab 511WHP Honda K Series https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18677797 @BaysideFab 485WHP Honda K Series * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 zbomb FB buddy 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352678 Youtube 426WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18353264 @gtxracer 393WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @BRS-LN 382WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Hartech from FB 370WHP M96 4.1 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18597947 @Peedster 349WHP M96 4.0 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @lowpue 345WHP 997 M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP M96 4,0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 @Jengah 327WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Vivid Race Car 325WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @schroederhc1 324WHP M96 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18418970 @golock911 ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18357400 @pszikla ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18381442 4.0 FSI BAT Auction 311WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @JSETarga 310WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ BAT X51 304WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Justin76 ​​​​​​​ 301WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18550017 @NYoutftr 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @CTS 287WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @Falcon911 ​​​​​​​282WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @RubberDuckie39 264WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18686609 @BaysideFab 259WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @eric523 249WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576

Quotes source post: 18721715

Aponte Rios Racing in Newton NH. They don't appear to advertise much so I'll PM you more contact info. This was done at a dyno day through COM intended for motor swaps or elective dyno based classing. Doesn't really apply to me now but maybe in the future. $100 for some baseline data was a good deal.

Instagram @BaysideFab 511WHP Honda K Series https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18677797 @BaysideFab 485WHP Honda K Series * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 Chavis Performance 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18755339 zbomb FB buddy 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352678 Youtube 426WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18353264 @gtxracer 393WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @BRS-LN 382WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Hartech from FB 370WHP M96 4.1 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18597947 @Peedster 349WHP M96 4.0 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @lowpue 345WHP 997 M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP M96 4,0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 @Jengah 327WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Vivid Race Car 325WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @schroederhc1 324WHP M96 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18418970 @golock911 ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18357400 @pszikla ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18381442 4.0 FSI BAT Auction 311WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @JSETarga 310WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ BAT X51 304WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Justin76 ​​​​​​​ 301WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18550017 @NYoutftr 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @CTS 287WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @Falcon911 ​​​​​​​282WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @RubberDuckie39 264WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18686609 @BaysideFab 259WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @eric523 249WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576

I'll post a pic of the dyno run next week with exact numbers while I do not have it at hand just now, but some observations of a 3,8l 996C4S conversion. It was customer's car to which we did tuning (for the record I just install and datalog tunes...) including dyno runs at 3rd party dyno. The car has a GT3 throttle body and 997's fuel rails with injectors, but OEM air filter box and completely original exhaust without any mods whatsover. After the dyno owner started to think about freeing both intake and exhaust... Engine produces a healthy torque of ~400 Nm (295 lbft) but falls on it's face at higher rpm range at only ~340 hp, top of the curve is flat. Numbers are from crank and datalogged MAF #'s are equal.

Here's a V8 I want to see in a 996... https://www.thedrive.com/news/swap-a...ar-v8-for-sale

Quotes source post: 18925727

That would make the coin I'm dropping on FSI look like chump change.

Quotes source post: 18686845

Any valve work, intake or exhaust?

Pretty satisfying to meaningfully add to the thread. The tuner sent me the graph he saved, its from the 462HP run, we got a little more out of it but lost the graph to computer abyss, so we'll go with 462 for internet bragging purposes. This was on a Mustang chassis dyno The engine: GM 6.2L L92 converted to LS3 spec with manifold / throttle body / injectors. Engine management is the stock GM ECU modified with HP tuners software. Go fast stuff: Katech LS3 Race Cam PSI Beehive springs Johnson Lifters Magnaflow X Pipe resonator 2.5in Exhaust Garbage shorty headers that apparently can make good power. Instagram @BaysideFab 511WHP Honda K Series https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18677797 @BaysideFab 485WHP Honda K Series * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 Chavis Performance 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18755339 zbomb FB buddy 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352678 @zbomb 462WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Youtube 426WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18353264 @gtxracer 393WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @BRS-LN 382WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Hartech from FB 370WHP M96 4.1 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18597947 @Peedster 349WHP M96 4.0 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @lowpue 345WHP 997 M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP M96 4,0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 @Jengah 327WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Vivid Race Car 325WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @schroederhc1 324WHP M96 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18418970 @golock911 ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18357400 @pszikla ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18381442 4.0 FSI BAT Auction 311WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @JSETarga 310WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ BAT X51 304WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Justin76 ​​​​​​​ 301WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18550017 @NYoutftr 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @CTS 287WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @Falcon911 ​​​​​​​282WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @RubberDuckie39 264WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18686609 @BaysideFab 259WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @eric523 249WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576

Put my M96 4.0 on the dyno today, 347hp with crap AFR. 3.6 → 4.0 Cams, headers, IPD, Fabspeed intake/headers/exhaust. few other goodies. Need to tune it...

Quotes source post: 18992100

Yeah man - seems like a pretty strong power number, high end of what we've seen on a 4.0.... Seems to me like every M96 graph I have seen seems so lean for what I would generally think would be a safe target for a NA car... Guess it shows how little I know about tuning, especially on a NA application. In the turbo days it was like - get it to 11.3-11.5ish under moderate boost and should be OK. I think my tuner for the LS had AFR around 12.5. Got me curious so I snipped AFR from other guys that included... Yours... This is @NYoutftr 's 3.6 - after tune I believe. This is @Jengah 's 3.8. He didn't mentioned if the engine had a tune on it. This is the big power run that @BRS-LN posted.... would love to see an owner post something equitable. @BaysideFab 511WHP Honda K Series https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18677797 @BaysideFab 485WHP Honda K Series * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 Chavis Performance 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18755339 zbomb FB buddy 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352678 @zbomb 462WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Youtube 426WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18353264 @gtxracer 393WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @BRS-LN 382WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Hartech from FB 370WHP M96 4.1 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18597947 @Peedster 349WHP M96 4.0 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @sdwindr1 ​​​​​​​ 347WHP M96 4.0 Autoworks, CO https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18992100 @lowpue 345WHP 997 M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP M96 4,0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 @Jengah 327WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Vivid Race Car 325WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @schroederhc1 324WHP M96 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18418970 @golock911 ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18357400 @pszikla ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18381442 4.0 FSI BAT Auction 311WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @JSETarga 310WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ BAT X51 304WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Justin76 ​​​​​​​ 301WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18550017 @NYoutftr 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @CTS 287WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @Falcon911 ​​​​​​​282WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @RubberDuckie39 264WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18686609 @BaysideFab 259WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @eric523 249WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576

Quotes source post: 18992100

good numbers� who did the 4.0 build?

Autoworks Colorado. They were really good to work with.

Quotes source post: 18993970

Thanks for sharing, I updated the scorecard so folks in the future who may be looking for an engine build can reach out to them.

Quotes source post: 18993970

awesome! good to know .. did they use Schrick Cams?

Quotes source post: 18995151

These are Schrick Cams, however they were from the original rebuild years ago when the IMS bearing went boom with the previous owner. Bore Scoring issues (what prompted my rebuild) weren't a known issue when the 1st rebuild happened, so here we are with rebuild #2. Schrick Cams part numbers were noted on 1st rebuild paperwork as follows: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Exhaust: 0454A1921-L0 0454A1921-R0 Intake: 0454E141-L0 ** Looking around, I suspect that this part number had a typo. Pretty sure they are actually 0454E1841-(x)0 0454E141-R0 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- The cams, an IPD Plenum, and GT3 Throttle body were all part of the original rebuild. All of which were retained for rebuild #2.

Quotes source post: 18996195

that would be my same plan for a 4.1 build for me as well .

Quotes source post: 18321626

@JSETarga Do you feel like the Softronic Tune woke the car up a bunch? Are you happy with it? @Justin76 @sdwindr1 - I'm in a similar boat with my 3.8 build - Schrick cams, IPD, GT3TB, etc., however, no tune as of yet...Is Softronic the way to go?

I wish I could give better direction on that. This is my first experience tuning a Porsche. I have a lot of time with APR and Cobb, I'm using the ExperTune thing with Fabspeed, since it came as part of their combo. We'll see how it goes once I get her back from the body shop.

BAT 40AE with an FSI 4.0. Adding up the invoices shown in the auction details, looks like this owner paid a little over $32K. https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...nniversary-91/ @BaysideFab 511WHP Honda K Series https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18677797 @BaysideFab 485WHP Honda K Series * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 Chavis Performance 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18755339 zbomb FB buddy 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352678 @zbomb 462WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Youtube 426WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18353264 @gtxracer 393WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @BRS-LN 382WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Hartech from FB 370WHP M96 4.1 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18597947 @Peedster 349WHP M96 4.0 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @sdwindr1 ​​​​​​​ 347WHP M96 4.0 Autoworks, CO https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18992100 @lowpue 345WHP 997 M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP M96 4,0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 ​​​​​​​ 40AE BAT Auction 333WHP 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Jengah 327WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Vivid Race Car 325WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @schroederhc1 324WHP M96 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18418970 @golock911 ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18357400 @pszikla ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18381442 4.0 FSI BAT Auction 311WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @JSETarga 310WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ BAT X51 304WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Justin76 ​​​​​​​ 301WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18550017 @NYoutftr 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @CTS 287WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @Falcon911 ​​​​​​​282WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @RubberDuckie39 264WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18686609 @BaysideFab 259WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @eric523 249WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576

Mine from August of last year . A 3.8 Stage II . These were the best two runs . I am very happy with the performance and drivability .

Quotes source post: 19025755

Thanks for sharing. Feel like we are getting a nice library compiled here. Hopefully a useful resource for a long time thanks to contributions like yours ! @BaysideFab 511WHP Honda K Series https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18677797 @BaysideFab 485WHP Honda K Series * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 Chavis Performance 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18755339 zbomb FB buddy 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352678 @zbomb 462WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Youtube 426WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18353264 @gtxracer 393WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @BRS-LN 382WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Hartech from FB 370WHP M96 4.1 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18597947 @Peedster 349WHP M96 4.0 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @sdwindr1 ​​​​​​​ 347WHP M96 4.0 Autoworks, CO https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18992100 @lowpue 345WHP 997 M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP M96 4,0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 ​​​​​​​ 40AE BAT Auction 333WHP 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Jengah 327WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Vivid Race Car 325WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @schroederhc1 324WHP M96 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18418970 @996C438 ​​​​​​​ 319WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @golock911 ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18357400 @pszikla ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18381442 4.0 FSI BAT Auction 311WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @JSETarga 310WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ BAT X51 304WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Justin76 ​​​​​​​ 301WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18550017 @NYoutftr 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @CTS 287WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @Falcon911 ​​​​​​​282WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @RubberDuckie39 264WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18686609 @BaysideFab 259WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @eric523 249WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576

Question for the Dyno aficionados in the thread... According to the shop owner, the Dyno I ran on didn't collect RPM and TQ because it didn't have a source signal for RPM. This is an LS specific place so they didn't really have a ton of knowledge about the 996. The owner went looking for a location to pull spark signal from without pulling the covers off and what not. Couldn't find one. Is there a location/loom/wire that I can direct them to without having to dig around a lot? Googled around a bit but not finding much. Engine is now tuned and *surprise*, the torque difference is obvious. Looking to get all the data I can for y'all. If not, I'll go find another location further away with a more modern setup. I know nothing about Dyno's other than the absolute truth I read online.

Quotes source post: 19031952

ODB2 plug pin 9 is rpm. I use this signal to my Aim datalogger.

Quotes source post: 19031988

Is that going to be an analog signal or something in a specific protocol? The Dyno in this shop is rather old and has no ODB2 connectivity. If it's analog I'm sure I can run a pin out of it and get a signal he can pick up.

So if he has no obd2 capability how is he getting the signal from a ls motor. Doesnt make sense to plug into the reluctor ring sensor. Im guess he can clip onto a spark plug wire like a timing light....maybe that will work?

Quotes source post: 19032016

It's analog.

OBD2 pin 9 is a "manufacturer specific" signal. There is no pin installed on .2 cars.

Quotes source post: 19032025

He said he normally attaches a sensor to a spark plug wire. Traditional or smart plug is doable.

Quotes source post: 19032834

Well he is sol on getting an rpm from anything newer then 2000? Even ls motors use coil packs. I guess he is a 1/4 carb engine guy. U may have to find another dyno.

Quotes source post: 19033320

I doubt his issue was finding a firing signal on a wire coming off of a coilpack, so much as the ease of ability to actually reach and subsequently identify said wire... But then again, I'm also pulling this my my goldfish memory. Already looking for another dyno.

Quotes source post: 18992100

Curious what cams you used on this build?

@sdwindr1 Dyno operator should be able to calculate RPM with gearing. That's how mine was done during the club dyno day. Not perfect but better than nothing. Also, to be fair, SAE correction.

Sorry, man I just saw your detailed reply on this!,

Quotes source posts: 19035781, 19035767

All good dude. Actually did that today. Went to another shop after applying a Tune from Fabspeed. Definitely solved the bottom end TQ according to my butt. Still have an fueling issue above 5500rpm to work out though. Top end hp was worse with tune lol. Trial and error though, nbd. Sent a message to @Fabspeed Motorsport tuning. Hopefully they can work something out in short order Underwhelming dyno for those interested: Pics for Clicks.... Torqqe Performance is a pretty awesome place. I'll be giving them more business in the future.

Interesting dude. So, the only change with the new plot is the tune ? I am super interested what this thing would do with custom tuning. Peak TRQ and AFR over 14:1, that just doesn't seem right to me. Really dig the car BTW, cool color and tasty mods. @BaysideFab 511WHP Honda K Series https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18677797 @BaysideFab 485WHP Honda K Series * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 Chavis Performance 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18755339 zbomb FB buddy 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352678 @zbomb 462WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Youtube 426WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18353264 @gtxracer 393WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @BRS-LN 382WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Hartech from FB 370WHP M96 4.1 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18597947 @Peedster 349WHP M96 4.0 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @sdwindr1 ​​​​​​​ 347WHP M96 4.0 Autoworks, CO https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18992100 @lowpue 345WHP 997 M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @sdwindr1 336WHP M96 4.0 Autoworks, CO https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19035932 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP M96 4,0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 ​​​​​​​ 40AE BAT Auction 333WHP 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Jengah 327WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Vivid Race Car 325WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @schroederhc1 324WHP M96 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18418970 @996C438 ​​​​​​​ 319WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @golock911 ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18357400 @pszikla ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18381442 4.0 FSI BAT Auction 311WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @JSETarga 310WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ BAT X51 304WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Justin76 ​​​​​​​ 301WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18550017 @NYoutftr 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @CTS 287WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @Falcon911 ​​​​​​​282WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @RubberDuckie39 264WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18686609 @BaysideFab 259WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @eric523 249WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576 ​​​​​​​

@zbomb Thanks, I love the color too. Dark Teal Metallic. Also glad I was able to score one of the RPM Ducktails before they stopped shipping them to the US. Yes, the original Dyno I posted was all hardware changes, no tuning at all. The second is with a tune from Fabspeed, their ExperTune product. Keep in mind that this is also a different location/dyno than my first reading as well. I wouldn't be suprised if that influenced numbers. I am probably going to stick with this shop through the remainder of this process. Obviously there is some work to do here, but first thing's first. Shot over the AFR readout/dyno to the tuning group @ fabspeed. Looking forward to seeing what kind of changes they make. I am crossing my fingers to get a live/remote tuning session setup. We'll see. If they can't accommodate for one reason or another, I'll be on the warpath for someone to do a custom tune on it.

Quotes source post: 18323744

Been going (again) through everyone�s builds here and wanted to clarify��you swapped out your 996 motor for a 997 3.8? ECU and harness, and perhaps gauges too?

2007 C2S 3.8 @ 49K miles Driven XP9 Race Oil 10w40 Mods: Soul 200cell catted x-pipe IPD Competition plenum Soler 86mm TB BMC air filter in stock housing Conditions: 77.01�F, 24.62in-hg, Humidity: 20.25%, SAE:1.23 Smoothing: 5 Max: 7,613RPM 289.06TQ 332.54HP

Quotes source post: 18333851

This motor is now for sale if anyone is interested. Has approx 18 hours on it now and fabspeed intake replaced stock. Will let it go reasonably cheap for what it is....has a lot of the spendy bits Also have a 997 transmission with a Guards LSD available for $5.5k. Will include LW AASCO flywheel GT3 motor/trans going in the car.

Quotes source post: 19064719

Nice ! Good luck with the sale - I wish I had the cash for the gear box, that's a smoking deal. Make sure you post the plot of the GT3 engine once it's done... @De Jeeper been slacking on getting us his numbers.

Quotes source post: 19065125

I still have 7 track days left this season.... @zbomb needs more track and less dyno

Quotes source post: 19065129

You are right about that - gotta pay dem bills though. In Dallas for work and missing another opportunity this Thurs. Big sad. You're still slacking on my numbers though.

Quotes source post: 19065138

Happy I�m going to be chasing @De Jeeper down for 4 of those days. Isn�t he barred, says so in the thread title?

Quotes source post: 19065227

If you swap a mezgar, all good.

Quotes source post: 19065125

Ha�and here I was thinking that was against the rules. Dyno will be shocking; HP will be exactly 325 (current 387). I�ll post it when I have it, likely after the start of the year.

M Tanner made me aware of a race shop across the street from my indie. I had no clue they had a hub dyno! So great crew to work with. I learned so much about why DFI motors had carbon issues. Goods/bads/neutrals about port and DFI. Why the first year or two of any DFI engine is an “avoid” for a used car. So the bump down in the curves at 5200 rpm is because of cat temp. ECU adds fuel to cool cats and cause rich condition. Oh, and they ran numbers for my car. Fun 90 minutes! Way more fun than the Nashville Soccer Club 90 minute s***show later that night. Of note, the first run was straight up 310 whp. This is a hub dyno we’re talking here. They’re rated for 5-digit lb-ft numbers and they’re very accurate. These folks at Only Motorsports look for huff, not puff. So the last 2 runs were to assess what my torque curve looked like. I knew this sucker laid down some power. Didn’t think it was as much as a 997.2S with a flatter curve. For the dyno runs the ABS control and 2 PSM breakers needed to be pulled. Lights cleared after I moved about 20 feet. 290whp for 270lbft 252 avg torque 3.8 Protech Motorsports build

3.8L home build. 997S airbox, IPD Comp plenum, GT3 throttle body, Hoffman headwork including oversized intake valves, Agency Power headers, Top Gear UK crossover cats. No tune yet. 300 WHP, 273 ft-lb according to the Dynojet.

2 in 1 day...Fire me up ! And Yaz... have mercy ! is that thing looking so, so good. I wonder if you are the first guy to post an M96 self built. Big props to you. Also, you were the 300th post, and you made 300WHP... someone cue up the x files music. Thanks for sharing dudes ! @BaysideFab 511WHP Honda K Series https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18677797 @BaysideFab 485WHP Honda K Series * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 Chavis Performance 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18755339 zbomb FB buddy 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352678 @zbomb 462WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Youtube 426WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18353264 @gtxracer 393WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @BRS-LN 382WHP M96 * NO COST or ENGINE DISPLACEMENT PROVIDED https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Hartech from FB 370WHP M96 4.1 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18597947 @Peedster 349WHP M96 4.0 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @sdwindr1 ​​​​​​​ 347WHP M96 4.0 Autoworks, CO https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18992100 @lowpue 345WHP 997 M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @sdwindr1 336WHP M96 4.0 Autoworks, CO https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19035932 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP M96 4,0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 ​​​​​​​ 40AE BAT Auction 333WHP 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Jengah 327WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Vivid Race Car 325WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @schroederhc1 324WHP M96 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18418970 @996C438 ​​​​​​​ 319WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @golock911 ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18357400 @pszikla ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18381442 4.0 FSI BAT Auction 311WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @JSETarga 310WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ BAT X51 304WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Justin76 ​​​​​​​ 301WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18550017 @yaz996 300WHP 3.8 M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19098848 @NYoutftr 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @hatchetf15 290WHP 3.8 M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19098676 @CTS 287WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @Falcon911 ​​​​​​​282WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @RubberDuckie39 264WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18686609 @BaysideFab 259WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @eric523 249WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576 ​​​​​​​

Quotes source post: 19098676

yea great guys there! As soon as my ducktail comes in I�ll run mine down there and post my numbers here.

Quotes source post: 19098676

Next time call me as I'll participate since I'm down the street

Quotes source post: 19098848

awesome job @Yaz ! Doing the rebuild by yourself is no joke.. mad props !

We are starting to get a good book of data here, what would be really awesome is if we could get some more stock data points. And, thanks again to all the folks that have contributed by posting your graphs and details about your cars ! A couple alternative ways to view the data we have collected so far below. The question that I have looking at this is - why do people go with 3.8's as opposed to 4.0 when they choose to rebuild. If you're starting with a 3.6, the money to get to low 300's is a small, small fraction of what it takes to get to the 317 a 3.8 is showing and the 4.0's provide a pretty substantial jump over the 3.8's. Is a 4.0 build considerably more expensive than a 3.8 ?

^^^^From the top of my nugget I’d say some added expense with parts and tuning. Cams, head work, 99 to 101 increase, ECU programming, making intake and exhaust breath much better, etc. These Bosch units like to veer towards rich from what I’ve learned. A 4.0 would need someone skilled to tune when to pull fuel or advance timing. That said, I wonder how many shops would build a top-notch 4.0/plus with a solid warranty. If I’m plopping down $25,000 plus for any rebuild, I want as close to bulletproof as I can get. Many more variables when displacement rises above 3.8, 3.9 threshold. For me, if I’m building a beastly 4.0, I’m budgeting a lot more for overall project upgrades. Brakes, suspension will need upgraded performance on par with a GT3. Or I do an LS or 2.7T swap and with the money I save I get dream wheels and suspension. Then we segue into the “Then why not buy a GT3 or a Turbo?” discussion. For my 3.6 to 3.8 build, the torque curve is very good for any size of non-turbo M96 or M97. It’s almost half a second faster to 60 than my previous 3.6 (RIP).

Quotes source posts: 19099527, 19099854

Thanks guys!

Quotes source post: 19101465

As this data set grows, it might be worth making the distinction for VarioCam vs VarioCamPlus on the 3.8 builds at least.

out of my own curiosity...do we have any rough $/HP numbers?

For my 3.8 FSI build I went for the 3.8 for several reasons . One was parts availability at the time . Two the 3.8 from FSI had at the time rock solid performance and reliability and still does . Three I wasn't looking to build the highest hp/tq engine I wanted rock solid with good performance improvements and that's what I got . A year plus later FSI has built many 4.0's and they have proven to be reliable and powerful . I have witnessed so many dyno pulls and driven so many for Jake that I know they all perform well . If I had to do it all over again would I change anything ? No I wouldn't . If I had an unlimited budget ? Yeah I might . But not necessarily in displacement . My 3.8 could really pop if I were to do cams and intake mods . I am almost maxed out currently . I have watched flow bench work in person . There are items being developed that are making huge gains in performance in regards to intake and exhaust . If I had more $$$ that's where I would invest IF I was looking to maximize power . I am happy with with how my 3.8 performs . Sorry for the long winded reply and infomercial 😋

So, you didn’t go with the 4.0 because of cost and reliability concerns over the 3.8 or because 4.0 parts weren’t available ? Hard to interpret your response as an answer to my question. I’m glad you like the 3.8, the question is why choose it over a 4.0 ?

Quotes source post: 19098848

I had to quote the picture. Your car is effing spectacular. I hope to see it next season, not that your Toyota isn't sweet - this is so much greatness.

Quotes source post: 19102035

Sorry if I wasn't clear . My decision was based on parts availability at the time and the 3.8 being a known upgrade .

Quotes source post: 19101465

I went through the old FSI "program" so take that as the basis for the rest of my comments. At that time the cost difference between an FSI 3.8 and 4.0 was about 20%. However when I added all of the associated costs -- engine removal/installation, necessary bits that were not part of the engine build, other upgrades, and "while you're in there" stuff -- I estimated that the cost difference was going to be more like 10%, maybe even lower. It made economic sense to me to choose the 4.0.

"why do people go with 3.8's as opposed to 4.0 when they choose to rebuild." I chose the 3.8 FSI over the 4.0 because of what I read and through my discussions with Jake. It offered all I would ever want or need. It was not a choice driven by money. I am not a racer boi so I don't need over the top HP and TQ. The 3.8 gives me more than I need/want for the street. It is now four years past reconstruction and it is still the best automotive decision I have ever made.

@wildbilly32 and @wdb EDIT... I incorrectly ASSumed WDB had a chart . It's a shame neither of you guys have contributed your dyno charts to the thread. The fact you are responding in here shows you have interest, yet you don't contribute data to further the discussion. That said @wdb , that makes sense to me. @wildbilly32 , I know you love FSI man and more power to you - but your answer just doesn't make sense if there is not a financial reasoning, at least not to me. Both engines being the same money you're going to raise your hand and say, give me the one with less power.... WHY ? Like actually what reasoning went into that decision ? I'm really just interested to learn if there are characteristics of the 3.8 that one could view more favorable when compared to a 4.0 that would negate the performance advantage of the 4.0. @996C438 - that makes perfect sense man, if you need a motor, I can totally understand why getting up and running makes the choice an easy one. If the supply chain problem went the opposite direction and parts for the 3.8 had poor availability, would you have been happy to go the 4.0 route ? Thanks for sharing your graph too.

I would have gone 4.0 if the supply chain forced me to . But that would have pushed me out of the budget I was trying to stay within. I was retired from full time work and working part time for Jake . So budget was a concern . I have zero regrets about my choice and the end results .

Quotes source post: 19101964

This is all based off a 3.6 and the best info and estimates I can come up with. We don't have pricing info for any 3.8 builds that I have seen and the stock 3.6 dyno number seems really strong... but again, this is the best I can come up with and welcome others to add their input. For an estimated little over $5K you could get 96% of the output you would get going to a 3.8. Estimating $25K for the 3.8 rebuild you end up with the below (Note - I would really like more stock numbers to further validate): If you look at a stock 3.6 and a 4.0, which I feel better about the pricing, at least for an FSI version as that price was pulled from an BAT add, the dollar/HP actually becomes more favorable, still pretty ****ty though. None of this takes into account any benefits a rebuild gives you that aren't accounted for in power output and there is certainly value there and I would argue that value will differ person to person. For someone like me that thinks the stock motors are really pretty reliable when cared for, even when beaten mercilessly (looking at you Brad), less value - if you're someone that thinks the stock motor will blow up if you look at it funny, you will likely place more value in things that can't be quantified other than the motor is blown up, or not.

Quotes source post: 19103139

It is my personal decision not to share the dyno #'s period. No amount of cajoling, questioning or intimidation will change my decision. I learned years ago that just because I ask for something does not mean I will get it. 3.8 vs. 4.0. I answered the question above but you must have missed it. So: the 3.8 gives me all the power I need/want/use. I do not track the car and if I did the 3.8 would have plenty of performance for me. I don't need to have the biggest, fastest, loudest car. I had those when I was young. I've grown up. Thanks for your interest...

Quotes source post: 19103225

This is one of the funniest things I've ever read on this site. Gonna send it out to my buddies and they'll all think its from some racing forum where people are uber secretive about their combos... Ahh no... just another 996 owner who wears his shirt in the pool. Thank you...again to the people actually posting their graphs, you all provide the type of information that can help fellow 996 owners make more informed decisions. ETA... Bye billyboy. It's been real.

Quotes source post: 19103271

I am glad I brought some humor into your life. You're welcome. Oh my! I've been put on an ignore list! Whatever shall I do...Oh dear!

I don�t have a dyno chart.

Quotes source post: 19103292

Apologies - I was under the impression that a dyno chart was supplied with the FSI produced builds. I'll go back and edit my post and make clear my mistake.

Quotes source post: 19103299

I believe that is true for folks who sent their cars to FSI, but I'm not certain. I only sent the engine. The old program had more capacity for engines than it did for whole cars. They have "certified installers" around the country, and that's what I used. These days the only thing FSI does is the engine rebuild, unless you're lucky (and wealthy!) enough to get on the "R" engine list. All of the removal/install work is done by the certified shops.

I don't have any good numbers yet for my 3.8, since it's been sitting in storage. It also needs a tune to probably clean up some ratios and fine tune. Hoping to do this in the Spring... However, my motor was dead, so I needed a rebuild anyway...not sure I would have done the 3.4 to 3.8 if my motor wasn't dead. Hard to justify spending the money when the stock 3.4 felt pretty fun. Wasn't crazy quick, but pretty darn good! The Turbo tune was definitely worth it though...

2013 build FSI 3.8 - lot of improvement in output since then. https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...-carrera-4-23/ @BaysideFab 511WHP Honda K Series https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18677797 @BaysideFab 485WHP Honda K Series * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 Chavis Performance 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18755339 zbomb FB buddy 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352678 @zbomb 462WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Youtube 426WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18353264 @gtxracer 393WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @BRS-LN 382WHP M96 * NO COST or ENGINE DISPLACEMENT PROVIDED https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Hartech from FB 370WHP M96 4.1 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18597947 @Peedster 349WHP M96 4.0 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @sdwindr1 ​​​​​​​ 347WHP M96 4.0 Autoworks, CO https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18992100 @lowpue 345WHP 997 M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @sdwindr1 336WHP M96 4.0 Autoworks, CO https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19035932 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP M96 4,0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 ​​​​​​​ 40AE BAT Auction 333WHP 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Jengah 327WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Vivid Race Car 325WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @schroederhc1 324WHP M96 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18418970 @996C438 ​​​​​​​ 319WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @golock911 ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18357400 @pszikla ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18381442 4.0 FSI BAT Auction 311WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @JSETarga 310WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ BAT X51 304WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Justin76 ​​​​​​​ 301WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18550017 @yaz996 300WHP 3.8 M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19098848 @NYoutftr 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @hatchetf15 290WHP 3.8 M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19098676 @CTS 287WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @Falcon911 ​​​​​​​282WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ 3.8 FSI BAT 278WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @RubberDuckie39 264WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18686609 @BaysideFab 259WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @eric523 249WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576 ​​​​​​​

^^^^ Interesting since my 3.8 rebuild was done in 2016 with average torque higher than that 2013 peak. But, each rebuilt engine is its own micro environment.

Quotes source post: 19131185

Got to keep in mind that no two dynometers read the same & factors like temperature, barometric readings and the operator, alter results as well. The only way to compare 2 cars is on the same dyno, same day, same operator !

Quotes source post: 19131682

How many dyno runs would you say all of your cars combined have had ? What dynos have you used ? Just out of curiosity.

Quotes source post: 19131691

Sorry if I broke some unspoken rule about posting to this thread unless I’ve actually had my 996 on a dyno. Whether I, personally, have had 1, none, or 1,000 cars on one has no bearing on my above statement….if you don’t agree with it, why not just come out and say so? I’ll be happy to debate this with you…oh wait,sorry I forgot, I really shouldn’t be posting here……oh, yes, fuel grade and quality…..those better be the same also…sorry I just had to slip that last one in…bye bye……..

Quotes source post: 19131682

This is very true, dyno sheets can be manipulated to read high, just a couple of keyboard strokes does the magic.

Quotes source posts: 19132379, 19132382

Jeesh... little defensive eh, you could just say everything you know on the topic has been learned by reading stuff people post on the internet. This thread is not about scientific grade A to B comparisons. It's about building a library of data points for people to use as a resource when thinking about what they may want to do to their cars. The comparative value comes in scale and is why it's important to build the biggest library possible to stabilize results and highlight outliers. And the best method for testing A to B is an engine dyno that can be done in an envrironemtally, and engine temp stable operating state that also removes all drivetrain associated factors. If this were true, every dyno operator would pump the numbers up for their customers, customers with big HP numbers are happy customers. Everyone can take the information for whatever value it has to them - you didn't pay anything for it. Better would be, go put your cars on the dyno and add to the great information that has been provided. And BTW, make sure to tell the operator to use those magic key strokes to get your car to the top of the list.

The amount of variables that can affect the numbers is staggering . The AFR . Tire pressures . How many external cooling fans being used . Engine lid up or down . Fuel quality . Ambient temp and humidity . Engine oil . How tight is the car strapped down . Is the operator letting the hot air in the bay clear out between runs . And many more . In my 5 years at FSI I was part of or witness to hundreds of dyno pulls . I am no expert just know what I saw . The simplest changes can make a difference . Not a huge difference but it all adds up . I never once saw any keyboard manipulation . The numbers were/are the numbers . All done on a Dynojet .

Quotes source posts: 19131185, 19131682

Hence, my remark about “micro environment” and solely comparing torque curves.

Quotes source post: 19132411

On the DJ, the affects of ambient temp/humidity and barometric pressure should be accounted for by the weather station and calculations rolled into the correction factor the operator applies, it looks like FSI used the relatively standard CF5. Of the other stuff you mention, AFR is an engine calibration so it will have a big impact in output. Engine coolant and oil temp should be kept consistent to the extent possible, I would hazard a guess that FSI would do this for their own data but also run through various operating temp windows to assure behavior as expected in sub optimal conditions. Tire pressure falls into a mechanical check that should be done along with all other mechanical aspects before testing and if the pressures are within standard operating ranges I would be curious if you saw deltas of more than a couple WHP. The beauty of the chassis dyno is the systemic view it gives and what is going on with the system matters to the engine output that is observed. While not the best tool for A to B comparisons or dick measuring contests (engine dyno), its the tool we have at relatively easy reach to paint the picture of expectation and I think reviewing the data thats been collected to date, we have developed strong trends, which was the goal.

I can't remember any huge differences between runs that made a bigger impact than letting the room clear out . A combination of adjusting fans and letting the room breathe . On some cars a 7 hp difference . My car when we dynoed it was the highest hp 3.8 five chain engine we had run . Nice to brag about for 5 minutes but ultimately its how the car drives that's important to me . Yes numbers are numbers and it is something to compare . Not sure if my hp number still stands but at 318.50 and 290 torque I am happy . Someone will always have more .

Really strong power from the Renn2.7. My first impression is it is a little laggier than I would expect but the power comes in very well at full boost. The motor had upgraded rods, I am not really sure what the comfort level would be on the stock rods for this motor. Also, I'm not sure if the 1.25 correction factor is standard for conditions or for some other reason. Maybe the Renn2.7 guys will chime in with some more detail. Also, kind of assuming this was on pump gas but did not see fuel mentioned by the builders. ETA... Did get a confirmation these are pump gas results. ETA #2 ... after talking to the Renn27 dude on IG, he did relay that the correction factor was to demonstrate crank HP, the WHP was about 435. I'm going to leave the info in for reference as the graph definitely provides input into power delivery but remove the number from the list. My opinion, if this setup can be proven to hold up and not get nuclear hot under track conditions, it looks like a very solid performer. My preference is still the reduced complexity/risk of displacement over forced induction but there is no denying, that dyno graph will turn the tepid 996 into a monster. You Tube @BaysideFab 511WHP Honda K Series Turbo https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18677797 @BaysideFab 485WHP Honda K Series Turbo * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 Chavis Performance 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18755339 zbomb FB buddy 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352678 @zbomb 462WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Youtube 426WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18353264 @gtxracer 393WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @BRS-LN 382WHP M96 * NO COST or ENGINE DISPLACEMENT PROVIDED https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Hartech from FB 370WHP M96 4.1 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18597947 @Peedster 349WHP M96 4.0 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @sdwindr1 ​​​​​​​ 347WHP M96 4.0 Autoworks, CO https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18992100 @lowpue 345WHP 997 M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @sdwindr1 336WHP M96 4.0 Autoworks, CO https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19035932 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP M96 4,0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 ​​​​​​​ 40AE BAT Auction 333WHP 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Jengah 327WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Vivid Race Car 325WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @schroederhc1 324WHP M96 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18418970 @996C438 ​​​​​​​ 319WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @golock911 ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18357400 @pszikla ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18381442 4.0 FSI BAT Auction 311WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @JSETarga 310WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ BAT X51 304WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Justin76 ​​​​​​​ 301WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18550017 @yaz996 300WHP 3.8 M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19098848 @NYoutftr 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @hatchetf15 290WHP 3.8 M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19098676 @CTS 287WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @Falcon911 ​​​​​​​282WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ 3.8 FSI BAT 278WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @RubberDuckie39 264WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18686609 @BaysideFab 259WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @eric523 249WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576

You Tube

CPE build LS3. Mustang dyno 438WHP. Instagram @BaysideFab 511WHP Honda K Series Turbo https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18677797 @BaysideFab 485WHP Honda K Series Turbo * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 Chavis Performance 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18755339 zbomb FB buddy 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352678 @zbomb 462WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ CPE LS3 438WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19213563 Youtube 426WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18353264 @gtxracer 393WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @BRS-LN 382WHP M96 * NO COST or ENGINE DISPLACEMENT PROVIDED https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Hartech from FB 370WHP M96 4.1 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18597947 @Peedster 349WHP M96 4.0 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @sdwindr1 ​​​​​​​ 347WHP M96 4.0 Autoworks, CO https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18992100 @lowpue 345WHP 997 M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @sdwindr1 336WHP M96 4.0 Autoworks, CO https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19035932 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP M96 4,0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 ​​​​​​​ 40AE BAT Auction 333WHP 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Jengah 327WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Vivid Race Car 325WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @schroederhc1 324WHP M96 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18418970 @996C438 ​​​​​​​ 319WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @golock911 ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18357400 @pszikla ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18381442 4.0 FSI BAT Auction 311WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @JSETarga 310WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ BAT X51 304WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Justin76 ​​​​​​​ 301WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18550017 @yaz996 300WHP 3.8 M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19098848 @NYoutftr 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @hatchetf15 290WHP 3.8 M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19098676 @CTS 287WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @Falcon911 ​​​​​​​282WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ 3.8 FSI BAT 278WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @RubberDuckie39 264WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18686609 @BaysideFab 259WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @eric523 249WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576

3.6 M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19241531 Numbers below are the same, 282WHP and 244 FTLBS as @Falcon911 shared for his stock 3.6 earlier in the thread. @BaysideFab 511WHP Honda K Series Turbo https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18677797 @BaysideFab 485WHP Honda K Series Turbo * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 Chavis Performance 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18755339 zbomb FB buddy 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352678 @zbomb 462WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ CPE LS3 438WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19213563 Youtube 426WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18353264 @gtxracer 393WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @BRS-LN 382WHP M96 * NO COST or ENGINE DISPLACEMENT PROVIDED https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Hartech from FB 370WHP M96 4.1 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18597947 @Peedster 349WHP M96 4.0 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @sdwindr1 ​​​​​​​ 347WHP M96 4.0 Autoworks, CO https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18992100 @lowpue 345WHP 997 M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @sdwindr1 336WHP M96 4.0 Autoworks, CO https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19035932 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP M96 4,0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 ​​​​​​​ 40AE BAT Auction 333WHP 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Jengah 327WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Vivid Race Car 325WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @schroederhc1 324WHP M96 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18418970 @996C438 ​​​​​​​ 319WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @golock911 ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18357400 @pszikla ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18381442 4.0 FSI BAT Auction 311WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @JSETarga 310WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ BAT X51 304WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Justin76 ​​​​​​​ 301WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18550017 @yaz996 300WHP 3.8 M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19098848 @NYoutftr 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @hatchetf15 290WHP 3.8 M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19098676 @CTS 287WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @G-Body 282WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Falcon911 ​​​​​​​282WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ 3.8 FSI BAT 278WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @RubberDuckie39 264WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18686609 @BaysideFab 259WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @eric523 249WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576 ​​​​​​​

Update on my K swap. Had a dyne session a couple months back and now were at 567hp 465tq @21psi

Impressive numbers but can you give me a ballpark on total costs up to date

Quotes source post: 19242059

As of today $14,600. That�s a fully built motor. Shave about $4k off if you keep stock internals. That will cap you around 425hp max hp fyi

Quotes source post: 19241886

Can�t really tell from pic when boost comes on� if you could get the printout would be good to see the detail. Confirming this is on E85?

Quotes source post: 19242087

Full boost at 3,700rpm. Yes e85

Quotes source post: 19242136

Nice, modern turbos are cool - 3.7K - 8.5K is a meaty power band. @BaysideFab 567WHP K Series Turbo https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19241886 @BaysideFab 511WHP Honda K Series Turbo https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18677797 @BaysideFab 485WHP Honda K Series Turbo * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 Chavis Performance 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18755339 zbomb FB buddy 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352678 @zbomb 462WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ CPE LS3 438WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19213563 Youtube 426WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18353264 @gtxracer 393WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @BRS-LN 382WHP M96 * NO COST or ENGINE DISPLACEMENT PROVIDED https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Hartech from FB 370WHP M96 4.1 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18597947 @Peedster 349WHP M96 4.0 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @sdwindr1 ​​​​​​​ 347WHP M96 4.0 Autoworks, CO https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18992100 @lowpue 345WHP 997 M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @sdwindr1 336WHP M96 4.0 Autoworks, CO https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19035932 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP M96 4,0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 ​​​​​​​ 40AE BAT Auction 333WHP 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Jengah 327WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Vivid Race Car 325WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @schroederhc1 324WHP M96 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18418970 @996C438 ​​​​​​​ 319WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @golock911 ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18357400 @pszikla ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18381442 4.0 FSI BAT Auction 311WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @JSETarga 310WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ BAT X51 304WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Justin76 ​​​​​​​ 301WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18550017 @yaz996 300WHP 3.8 M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19098848 @NYoutftr 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @hatchetf15 290WHP 3.8 M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19098676 @CTS 287WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @G-Body 282WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Falcon911 ​​​​​​​282WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ 3.8 FSI BAT 278WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @RubberDuckie39 264WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18686609 @BaysideFab 259WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @eric523 249WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576

Found on FB swap group. What looks to be a very nicely executed LS3 swap for sale (no relation to seller). 434WHP with a GM crate LS3 rated at 495 FWHP. https://www.facebook.com/groups/125353234745667/permalink/1469317780349199/?mibextid=W9rl1R @BaysideFab 567WHP K Series Turbo https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19241886 @BaysideFab 511WHP Honda K Series Turbo https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18677797 @BaysideFab 485WHP Honda K Series Turbo * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 Chavis Performance 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18755339 zbomb FB buddy 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352678 @zbomb 462WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ CPE LS3 438WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19213563 FB Post 434WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19264245 Youtube 426WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18353264 @gtxracer 393WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @BRS-LN 382WHP M96 * NO COST or ENGINE DISPLACEMENT PROVIDED https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Hartech from FB 370WHP M96 4.1 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18597947 @Peedster 349WHP M96 4.0 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @sdwindr1 ​​​​​​​ 347WHP M96 4.0 Autoworks, CO https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18992100 @lowpue 345WHP 997 M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @sdwindr1 336WHP M96 4.0 Autoworks, CO https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19035932 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP M96 4,0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 ​​​​​​​ 40AE BAT Auction 333WHP 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Jengah 327WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Vivid Race Car 325WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @schroederhc1 324WHP M96 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18418970 @996C438 ​​​​​​​ 319WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @golock911 ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18357400 @pszikla ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18381442 4.0 FSI BAT Auction 311WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @JSETarga 310WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ BAT X51 304WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Justin76 ​​​​​​​ 301WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18550017 @yaz996 300WHP 3.8 M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19098848 @NYoutftr 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @hatchetf15 290WHP 3.8 M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19098676 @CTS 287WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @G-Body 282WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Falcon911 ​​​​​​​282WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ 3.8 FSI BAT 278WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @RubberDuckie39 264WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18686609 @BaysideFab 259WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @eric523 249WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576

Beautiful car, if I could register that in CA , I would be all over it. it sounds great also. heard it earlier on FB.

Well if it can be done in a 986... https://www.thedrive.com/news/ferrar...-the-easy-part

Sharing this from the 997 section. 997.1 Carrera S with a 4.1L built by Slakker. This was a build focused on track use.

Quotes source post: 19296758

Superflow is an engine dyno so tough to know what this would shake out to at the wheels. I'd guess about 345WHP which would be on the stronger side for the big bore M96's we've seen. Also interesting, if you look at the dash display, which I don't know if reflective of the engine that produced the plot, but, it if it is, the coolant and oil temps are on the chilly side. Good for power but not representative of what I would be running on a chassis dyno in an effort to replicate real world conditions. I'm really looking forward to adding a @SlakkerRacingDev engine to the list.

Good catch on the display Jason but those values are off. I just loaded a 997.1 .dbc file onto it that i still need to sort out the factors on. Actual oil temp on that run is going to be around 190F as the run before it hit 404hp at 167F. This is off topic and way in the weeds but I use a logging software out of Estonia that i sent a 987/997 ecu so they could engineer how to patch them for �fast logging� which is 10x the speed. They already have fast logging for the me7.2 as well. Their interface has a bug (patch released this evening) and kept crashing today so I had to resort back to the durametic. But I was using my patched ecu flash file and was surprised to see that the durametric was logging at over 10x its normal speed as well. Which made me dislike it just a little bit less.

Quotes source post: 19296942

I have a graph I�ll post but based on a couple of similar engines without the upgraded plenum, 395 on our engine dyno was 358rwhp STP on Art of Assembly�s dyno jet.

Quotes source post: 19296942

it’s going to take some time before I make it to the Dino but we are in the right direction 😁.

This is a really cool one (fellow dry sump'd LS guy, of course he is) - Built to NASA TT3 specs which is a power to weight classing, this LS1 powered car should be very under stressed and hopefully for the owner, reliable. He's going to be competing in the Optima Ultimate Street Car Challenge soon so hopefully some fellow 996 guys can give him a follow and cheer him on. gt3_bandit 365WHP LS1 W LS9 Cam. @BaysideFab 567WHP K Series Turbo https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19241886 @BaysideFab 511WHP Honda K Series Turbo https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18677797 @BaysideFab 485WHP Honda K Series Turbo * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 Chavis Performance 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18755339 zbomb FB buddy 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352678 @zbomb 462WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ CPE LS3 438WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19213563 FB Post 434WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19264245 Youtube 426WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18353264 @gtxracer 393WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @BRS-LN 382WHP M96 * NO COST or ENGINE DISPLACEMENT PROVIDED https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Hartech from FB 370WHP M96 4.1 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18597947 gt3_bandit 365WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Peedster 349WHP M96 4.0 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @sdwindr1 ​​​​​​​ 347WHP M96 4.0 Autoworks, CO https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18992100 @lowpue 345WHP 997 M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @sdwindr1 336WHP M96 4.0 Autoworks, CO https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19035932 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP M96 4,0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 ​​​​​​​ 40AE BAT Auction 333WHP 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Jengah 327WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Vivid Race Car 325WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @schroederhc1 324WHP M96 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18418970 @996C438 ​​​​​​​ 319WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @golock911 ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18357400 @pszikla ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18381442 4.0 FSI BAT Auction 311WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @JSETarga 310WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ BAT X51 304WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Justin76 ​​​​​​​ 301WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18550017 @yaz996 300WHP 3.8 M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19098848 @NYoutftr 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @hatchetf15 290WHP 3.8 M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19098676 @CTS 287WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @G-Body 282WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Falcon911 ​​​​​​​282WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ 3.8 FSI BAT 278WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @RubberDuckie39 264WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18686609 @BaysideFab 259WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @eric523 249WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576 ​​​​​​​

And another track car, this one apparently built by Formula D driver Michael Essa. Dry sump and they flipped the intake mani which looks to allow them to be pulling air from the 1/4 windows which I like the idea of but they cut a bit ole hole in the rear shelf - wondering how it looks in operating condition, can't imagine they run it open like that. Classed in GT2 with the POC. Found it for sale (no affiliation) at https://racecarsforyou.com/listing/l...-996-race-car/ 428 WHP LS3 @BaysideFab 567WHP K Series Turbo https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19241886 @BaysideFab 511WHP Honda K Series Turbo https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18677797 @BaysideFab 485WHP Honda K Series Turbo * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 Chavis Performance 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18755339 zbomb FB buddy 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352678 @zbomb 462WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ CPE LS3 438WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19213563 FB Post 434WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19264245 GT2 Car 428 WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19312663 Youtube 426WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18353264 @gtxracer 393WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @BRS-LN 382WHP M96 * NO COST or ENGINE DISPLACEMENT PROVIDED https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Hartech from FB 370WHP M96 4.1 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18597947 gt3_bandit 365WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Peedster 349WHP M96 4.0 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @sdwindr1 ​​​​​​​ 347WHP M96 4.0 Autoworks, CO https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18992100 @lowpue 345WHP 997 M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @sdwindr1 336WHP M96 4.0 Autoworks, CO https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19035932 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP M96 4,0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 ​​​​​​​ 40AE BAT Auction 333WHP 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Jengah 327WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Vivid Race Car 325WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @schroederhc1 324WHP M96 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18418970 @996C438 ​​​​​​​ 319WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @golock911 ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18357400 @pszikla ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18381442 4.0 FSI BAT Auction 311WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @JSETarga 310WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ BAT X51 304WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Justin76 ​​​​​​​ 301WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18550017 @yaz996 300WHP 3.8 M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19098848 @NYoutftr 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @hatchetf15 290WHP 3.8 M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19098676 @CTS 287WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @G-Body 282WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Falcon911 ​​​​​​​282WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ 3.8 FSI BAT 278WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @RubberDuckie39 264WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18686609 @BaysideFab 259WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @eric523 249WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576 ​​​​​​​

Hoovies 243K mile 3.4 - 240 WHP You Tube @BaysideFab 567WHP K Series Turbo https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19241886 @BaysideFab 511WHP Honda K Series Turbo https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18677797 @BaysideFab 485WHP Honda K Series Turbo * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 Chavis Performance 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18755339 zbomb FB buddy 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352678 @zbomb 462WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ CPE LS3 438WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19213563 FB Post 434WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19264245 GT2 Car 428 WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19312663 Youtube 426WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18353264 @gtxracer 393WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @BRS-LN 382WHP M96 * NO COST or ENGINE DISPLACEMENT PROVIDED https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Hartech from FB 370WHP M96 4.1 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18597947 gt3_bandit 365WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Peedster 349WHP M96 4.0 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @sdwindr1 ​​​​​​​ 347WHP M96 4.0 Autoworks, CO https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18992100 @lowpue 345WHP 997 M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @sdwindr1 336WHP M96 4.0 Autoworks, CO https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19035932 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP M96 4,0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 ​​​​​​​ 40AE BAT Auction 333WHP 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Jengah 327WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Vivid Race Car 325WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @schroederhc1 324WHP M96 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18418970 @996C438 ​​​​​​​ 319WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @golock911 ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18357400 @pszikla ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18381442 4.0 FSI BAT Auction 311WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @JSETarga 310WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ BAT X51 304WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Justin76 ​​​​​​​ 301WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18550017 @yaz996 300WHP 3.8 M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19098848 @NYoutftr 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @hatchetf15 290WHP 3.8 M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19098676 @CTS 287WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @G-Body 282WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Falcon911 ​​​​​​​282WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ 3.8 FSI BAT 278WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @RubberDuckie39 264WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18686609 @BaysideFab 259WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @eric523 249WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576 Hoovie 243K Mile 3.4 240WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19348972 ​​​​​​​

Renegade LS3 - 418WHP You Tube @BaysideFab 567WHP K Series Turbo https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19241886 @BaysideFab 511WHP Honda K Series Turbo https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18677797 @BaysideFab 485WHP Honda K Series Turbo * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 Chavis Performance 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18755339 zbomb FB buddy 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352678 @zbomb 462WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ CPE LS3 438WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19213563 FB Post 434WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19264245 GT2 Car 428 WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19312663 Youtube 426WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18353264 Renegade 418WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @gtxracer 393WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @BRS-LN 382WHP M96 * NO COST or ENGINE DISPLACEMENT PROVIDED https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Hartech from FB 370WHP M96 4.1 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18597947 gt3_bandit 365WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Peedster 349WHP M96 4.0 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @sdwindr1 ​​​​​​​ 347WHP M96 4.0 Autoworks, CO https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18992100 @lowpue 345WHP 997 M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @sdwindr1 336WHP M96 4.0 Autoworks, CO https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19035932 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP M96 4,0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 ​​​​​​​ 40AE BAT Auction 333WHP 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Jengah 327WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Vivid Race Car 325WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @schroederhc1 324WHP M96 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18418970 @996C438 ​​​​​​​ 319WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @golock911 ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18357400 @pszikla ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18381442 4.0 FSI BAT Auction 311WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @JSETarga 310WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ BAT X51 304WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Justin76 ​​​​​​​ 301WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18550017 @yaz996 300WHP 3.8 M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19098848 @NYoutftr 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @hatchetf15 290WHP 3.8 M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19098676 @CTS 287WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @G-Body 282WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Falcon911 ​​​​​​​282WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ 3.8 FSI BAT 278WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @RubberDuckie39 264WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18686609 @BaysideFab 259WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @eric523 249WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576 Hoovie 243K Mile 3.4 240WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19348972 ​​​​​​​

PCA IPD Plenum Test 3.4 - 246WHP. Pretty good video. You Tube @BaysideFab 567WHP K Series Turbo https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19241886 @BaysideFab 511WHP Honda K Series Turbo https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18677797 @BaysideFab 485WHP Honda K Series Turbo * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 Chavis Performance 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18755339 zbomb FB buddy 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352678 @zbomb 462WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ CPE LS3 438WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19213563 FB Post 434WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19264245 GT2 Car 428 WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19312663 Youtube 426WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18353264 Renegade 418WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @gtxracer 393WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @BRS-LN 382WHP M96 * NO COST or ENGINE DISPLACEMENT PROVIDED https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Hartech from FB 370WHP M96 4.1 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18597947 gt3_bandit 365WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Peedster 349WHP M96 4.0 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @sdwindr1 ​​​​​​​ 347WHP M96 4.0 Autoworks, CO https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18992100 @lowpue 345WHP 997 M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @sdwindr1 336WHP M96 4.0 Autoworks, CO https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19035932 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP M96 4,0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 ​​​​​​​ 40AE BAT Auction 333WHP 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Jengah 327WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Vivid Race Car 325WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @schroederhc1 324WHP M96 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18418970 @996C438 ​​​​​​​ 319WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @golock911 ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18357400 @pszikla ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18381442 4.0 FSI BAT Auction 311WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @JSETarga 310WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ BAT X51 304WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Justin76 ​​​​​​​ 301WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18550017 @yaz996 300WHP 3.8 M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19098848 @NYoutftr 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @hatchetf15 290WHP 3.8 M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19098676 @CTS 287WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @G-Body 282WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Falcon911 ​​​​​​​282WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ 3.8 FSI BAT 278WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @RubberDuckie39 264WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18686609 @BaysideFab 259WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @eric523 249WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576 PCA IPD Plenum Test 3.4 - 246WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Hoovie 243K Mile 3.4 - 240WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19348972

Highest HP M96 on the list and it's a 3.4.... with a supercharger. 409WHP You Tube @BaysideFab 567WHP K Series Turbo https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19241886 @BaysideFab 511WHP Honda K Series Turbo https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18677797 @BaysideFab 485WHP Honda K Series Turbo * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 Chavis Performance 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18755339 zbomb FB buddy 470WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352678 @zbomb 462WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ CPE LS3 438WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19213563 FB Post 434WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19264245 GT2 Car 428 WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19312663 Youtube 426WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18353264 Renegade 418WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ TPC Racing 409WHP Supercharged M96 3.4 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @gtxracer 393WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989 @BRS-LN 382WHP M96 * NO COST or ENGINE DISPLACEMENT PROVIDED https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Hartech from FB 370WHP M96 4.1 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18597947 gt3_bandit 365WHP GM LS https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Peedster 349WHP M96 4.0 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960 @sdwindr1 ​​​​​​​ 347WHP M96 4.0 Autoworks, CO https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18992100 @lowpue 345WHP 997 M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744 @sdwindr1 336WHP M96 4.0 Autoworks, CO https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19035932 @2005 996 C4S 335WHP M96 4,0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885 ​​​​​​​ 40AE BAT Auction 333WHP 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Jengah 327WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Vivid Race Car 325WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @schroederhc1 324WHP M96 4.0 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18418970 @996C438 ​​​​​​​ 319WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @golock911 ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 FSI https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18357400 @pszikla ​​​​​​​ 318WHP M96 3.8 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18381442 4.0 FSI BAT Auction 311WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @JSETarga 310WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626 @mehoff 309WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ BAT X51 304WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Justin76 ​​​​​​​ 301WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18550017 @yaz996 300WHP 3.8 M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19098848 @NYoutftr 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177 @Triple Black 291WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577 @hatchetf15 290WHP 3.8 M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19098676 @CTS 287WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @911STYL ​​​​​​​ 284WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687 @G-Body 282WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @Falcon911 ​​​​​​​282WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ 3.8 FSI BAT 278WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ @RubberDuckie39 264WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18686609 @BaysideFab 259WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263 @eric523 249WHP M96 https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576 PCA IPD Plenum Test 3.4 - 246WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...​​ Hoovie 243K Mile 3.4 - 240WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19348972

This is from the 997 forum but I think it's worth mentioning here. Not much difference between an M96 and M97. Engine dyno pulls for a Slakker/Hartech 4.1L. The torque curve might look odd because of the type of dyno and how the engine is run up; it sits at 2K RPMs at full throttle until they are ready to let it rip. I suspect that lets the torque curve look flatter at lower RPMs than it might otherwise. Happy to hear from experts on that, I'm certainly not one of them! https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...e-testing.html

The engine dyno, or a variable load chassis dyno has a lot of benefits over an inertia type rolling road for development and calibration. Being able to hold the engine RPM steady at variable loads or vary the rate with which the engine speed increases allows a lot of granularity you can't get when the engine is just spinning up a drum of a known weight. That all said, doesn't tell me a lot about what the output will look like at the wheels which, since I am not developing or calibrating anything, is all I really care about.. The conversation is pretty interesting though and for those that don't click the link you posted (I suggest you do), here's my response, I'll definitely be following along that thread. I find it very interesting that even with the high octane the ECU is pulling timing. It would seem kind of amazing to me the engine at the type of normal octane limited compression ratios and cylinder pressures I would assume this engine is running is actually getting into any knock activity worthy of timing degradation unless the timing upper target is something bordering on unreasonable. I guess I need to do some research on combustion analyzers to conceptualize the 1 Bar/1K RPM you reference. I wonder if the knock sensing strategy is an area worth seeking improvement.

They were probably using semi-solid engine mounts, thus causing the knock sensors to kick in.

Quotes source post: 19402014

The data from Brandon is from his engine dyno. I guess my position is if the knock is being observed from either engine mounts or dyno mounting, reducing timing as a result is needlessly degrading performance. Here�s some good context on knock control strategy using an aftermarket ECU. You Tube

Inherent harmonic imbalance of the m96 engine needs soft compliant mounts to help quell its built in harmonic vibrations. Thats probably part of the reason for DMF and extra soft engine tranny mounts. And some m96 engine builders recommend and use an added harmonic type front pulley to help quell damaging m96 vibration. Thats probably why we hear so many stories of changing engine/tranny mounts to anything but oem and now new harshness/vibrations are present. Wouldn't be surprised if those create a timing/HP pull also.... Seems High performance m96 engine mounts = lower m96 engine performance jmo

Adding my 4.0 C4S numbers in. Peak 305.52 horsepower and 296.98 wheel torque. If someone knows what the typical drivetrain loss is, please let me know. I figure somewhere between 10-20%. More concerned with AFR and drivability around town so didn't go hard core on the tune. I am really pleased with how the car drives now. Power delivery is so much smoother than it was before the tune. Engine had been running lean, hence the early shutdown. So yeah, I'm glad I got it sorted. Peace of mind for sure You Tube We discussed headers to get a bit more power out of it but doubt I'll do anything else outside of enjoy it. I just know power and torque went up.....and it won't blow up! First aborted run showing AFR. Just seeing this made me glad I was getting it tuned properly!

Quotes source post: 19449342

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Quotes source post: 18321626

I had this setup on my 99 C2 and it sounded glorious, but i had an ear plug work out on a drive and now i have tinnitus So currently I run mufflers and it sounds meh.