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Yet another SAI question... RPM behavior

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19 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW

Discussion summary

YOUR RESEARCHYet another SAI question... RPM behavior

Reported or suspected cause

air shut off valve

Reported cause

No successful repair reported for this finding.

1
Identified cause
0
Suspected cause
0
Reported fixes
Read evidence and context

Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.

Discussions that report identifying a cause
1

0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.

0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.

Reported cause

As to the SAI, I cleaned out the airfilter on it with compressed air and that helped, but the real problem was the air shut off valve.

Yet another SAI question... RPM behavior
Frequently discussed work

Check codes - if was

No successful repair reported for this finding.

0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Discussions that contain suggestions
1

0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.

0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.

Suggestion

Checked codes - if was for SAI.

Yet another SAI question... RPM behavior
Read full discussion summary

Leading evidence: 'air shut off valve' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'air shut off valve' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check codes - if was' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.

Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.

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1 matching discussions · 19 captured posts examined · 0 partial discussions

Compare 4 other evidence results

Replace alternator)

Performed · outcome unconfirmed

No successful repair reported for this finding.

0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context

Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.

Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1

0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.

0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.

Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster

Noticed an RPM dip coming to stop from ~700 (where the needle likes to hang) to low 600s (short trip to pick up a serpentine belt prior to a road trip, I always keep a backup and used that when I changed the alternator)

Yet another SAI question... RPM behavior

Replace alternator, and in doing

Performed · outcome unconfirmed

No successful repair reported for this finding.

0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context

Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.

Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1

0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.

0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.

Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster

Last week, I changed my alternator, and in doing that, decided to unplug (no power) the SAI after getting the infamous buzz-saw sound on start-up.

Yet another SAI question... RPM behavior

Replace oil

Performed · outcome unconfirmed

No successful repair reported for this finding.

0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context

Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.

Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
Discussions that contain suggestions
1

0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.

0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.

Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster

So my idiot-self forgot to mention that I changed the oil after the alternator, and everything was fine.

Yet another SAI question... RPM behavior

Suggestion · Original poster

Did a visual inspection of the oil filler pipe, and it appears well intact, and refitted the cap in the even it wasn't properly seated after changing the oil.

Yet another SAI question... RPM behavior

Check codes - if was

Suggestion or failed attempt

No successful repair reported for this finding.

0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context

Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.

Discussions that contain suggestions
1

0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.

0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.

Suggestion

Checked codes - if was for SAI.

Yet another SAI question... RPM behavior
Frequently discussed actions (10)

These are separate views of the same evidence. Frequency alone does not establish a fix, and these counts must not be added together.

Check codes - if was

No successful repair reported for this finding.

0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Discussions that contain suggestions
1

0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.

0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.

Suggestion

Checked codes - if was for SAI.

Yet another SAI question... RPM behavior

Inspect /

No successful repair reported for this finding.

0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Discussions that contain suggestions
1

0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.

0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.

Suggestion · Original poster

Safe to drive the car or should I hold off until it's inspected/repaired (if damaged)?

Yet another SAI question... RPM behavior

Repair (if damaged)

No successful repair reported for this finding.

0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Discussions that contain suggestions
1

0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.

0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.

Suggestion · Original poster

Safe to drive the car or should I hold off until it's inspected/repaired (if damaged)?

Yet another SAI question... RPM behavior

Repair tube

No successful repair reported for this finding.

0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Discussions that contain suggestions
1

0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.

0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.

Suggestion

Some have been successful in repairing the tube with large electrical wire heat shrink or even rubber plumbing furnco connectors as a temp fix.

Yet another SAI question... RPM behavior

Replace airbox filter

No successful repair reported for this finding.

0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Discussions that contain suggestions
1

0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.

0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.

Suggestion · Original poster

Other considerations: MAF sensor needs to be cleaned and/or reseated (I had if off to take the airbox out to do the work); I replaced the airbox filter with the Rennline filter (

Yet another SAI question... RPM behavior

Replace alternator)

No successful repair reported for this finding.

0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1

0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.

0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.

Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster

Noticed an RPM dip coming to stop from ~700 (where the needle likes to hang) to low 600s (short trip to pick up a serpentine belt prior to a road trip, I always keep a backup and used that when I changed the alternator)

Yet another SAI question... RPM behavior

Replace alternator, and in doing

No successful repair reported for this finding.

0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1

0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.

0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.

Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster

Last week, I changed my alternator, and in doing that, decided to unplug (no power) the SAI after getting the infamous buzz-saw sound on start-up.

Yet another SAI question... RPM behavior

Replace bearings or just get a new unit

No successful repair reported for this finding.

0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Discussions that contain suggestions
1

0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.

0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.

Suggestion · Original poster

Totally didn't intend to come off as snarky, and agree, when it does come back, depending on time, I will either replace the bearings or just get a new unit.

Yet another SAI question... RPM behavior

Replace damn thing....lol

No successful repair reported for this finding.

0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Discussions that contain suggestions
1

0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.

0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.

Suggestion

Stop screwing with it and replace the damn thing....lol

Yet another SAI question... RPM behavior

Replace oil

No successful repair reported for this finding.

0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
Discussions that contain suggestions
1

0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.

0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.

Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster

So my idiot-self forgot to mention that I changed the oil after the alternator, and everything was fine.

Yet another SAI question... RPM behavior

Suggestion · Original poster

Did a visual inspection of the oil filler pipe, and it appears well intact, and refitted the cap in the even it wasn't properly seated after changing the oil.

Yet another SAI question... RPM behavior
Reported and suspected causes (1)

These are separate views of the same evidence. Frequency alone does not establish a fix, and these counts must not be added together.

air shut off valve

No successful repair reported for this finding.

1
Identified cause
0
Suspected cause
0
Reported fixes
Read evidence and context
Discussions that report identifying a cause
1

0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.

0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.

Reported cause

As to the SAI, I cleaned out the airfilter on it with compressed air and that helped, but the real problem was the air shut off valve.

Yet another SAI question... RPM behavior
Coverage and how to read this overview

Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.

19 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.

  • Rennlist: 1 discussions

0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.

1 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.

Outcome without a verified action link

Still getting intermittent saw sounds.

No unique explicit quoted action; no causal link assigned

Generation: 20261026T122219Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources

POST 1 / ORIGINAL POSTEROriginal post

RL 996ers -- I am at a loss after speaking with a few knowledgeable friends, my mechanic, and extensive searching on RL, Planet 9, and other reputable tech forums. Last week, I changed my alternator, and in doing that, decided to unplug (no power) the SAI after getting the infamous buzz-saw sound on start-up. I was planning to address it as soon as I had the time, and did not want to cause any additional damage or wear. Prior to disabling the SAI, I spoke to a friend who was a former Porsche tech and consulted the forums/Bentley & Pelican DIY manuals, and it seemed there is no harm in disabling the system since it is solely for emissions control. After doing that the following occurred a few days later (17-19OCT): 1. Noticed an RPM dip coming to stop from ~700 (where the needle likes to hang) to low 600s (short trip to pick up a serpentine belt prior to a road trip, I always keep a backup and used that when I changed the alternator) 2. Following day - Cold start with cooler ambient temperature (42-45F), I start the car to make a short drive to the staging area for (funny enough) the Porsche Boardwalk Reunion (which was fantastic). On the drive over, I get the P0491 code (left bank). Parked the car, reviewed the code, cleared it since it is attributed to the SAI 3. Yesterday, coming back from New Jersey, I noticed another dip in the RPMs, same behavior sitting on the 495 parking lot outside of the DC area This RPM anomaly has only happened at idle and when making a short trip or sitting in traffic as mentioned twice above. I also understand the SAI can power up when coming off a freeway and/or long stretch of driving under load, so not sure if that has something to do with this weirdness. The car, in September, did trip the P0456 code (small evap leak), but after ensuring my gas cap was tightened, that has yet to return. My question, after seemingly stumping those I know in the area that I trust with good knowledge and wrenching skills, is there something more at play here that I should consider? I don't want to throw a new SAI at the car yet, and the plan is to remove the unit, clean it, grease it, get it back on and go from there. If I still get the screech, then I will replace the SAI. Could this be the car relearning after disabling the SAI? Maybe it's looking for a process/function that normally occurs, and in doing so, it is affecting the RPMs? Not sure how the 996 generation goes about remapping/learning when you disable something like the SAI... My ignorance. More importantly, I also want to ensure I am not missing something here or I misunderstood the affect the SAI would have on the engine. Last thing I want to do is cause more problems with bigger price tags. I have yet to smoke test the car, but that would be my first step. Other considerations: MAF sensor needs to be cleaned and/or reseated (I had if off to take the airbox out to do the work); I replaced the airbox filter with the Rennline filter ( https://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin...cgi?pn=REN-M76 ) too and wonder if that's causing the issue...? Any thoughts are welcome, and while I know there is a ton out there, I can't seem to find anything prior which addresses this type of behavior after disabling the SAI. The car is a daily driver, and weekend auto-Xer, so I plan on getting the SAI back up and running regardless. Just thrown off with the aforementioned issues. Thanks to the RL 996 community. You guys are a great resource, and much appreciate any help.

POST 2Original post

I can concur the SAI can run after long drive at speed - after morning startup. I started the car, had light traffic and no stops on the way to work (35 miles). When I did get off the freeway, first stop light I got a check engine light. Checked codes - if was for SAI. I had accidently left it unplugged after some work the previous day. Easy fix. As to how to silence a noisy unit - have not had to do that yet. -Tom 2003 C2

POST 3Original post

U probably cracked the oil full tube installing the alt cause a crank case vacuum issue. Happens all the time.

POST 4 / ORIGINAL POSTEROriginal post

Much thanks to both of you! I hopefully assume, if I did crack the oil filler tube, that replacing that should remedy the issue? *fingers crossed* Much thanks, and will take a look at it in the morning. Safe to drive the car or should I hold off until it's inspected/repaired (if damaged)?

POST 5Original post

I agree with dejeeper on the cracked filler connector. As to the SAI, I cleaned out the airfilter on it with compressed air and that helped, but the real problem was the air shut off valve. When the air shut off valve that controls the SAI input into the manifold fails, it fails in the closed position. The blower still comes on, but there is no place for the air to go. The check valve and air shut off valve are now one piece. Used to be two. I can get a part number tomorrow if you want.

POST 6 / ORIGINAL POSTEROriginal post

That would be fantastic! Much thanks.

POST 7Original post

So the motor needs the correct amount of crank case vacuum for somethings to function like the aos. I would say u r fine for regular driving but avoid the track or aggressive drives. Some have been successful in repairing the tube with large electrical wire heat shrink or even rubber plumbing furnco connectors as a temp fix.

POST 8Original post

Quotes source post: 19706009

This part of for '00 and later. 99711324990 Here is the schematic M96.01/02/03 Air Injection M96.04 (autoatlanta.com)

POST 9 / ORIGINAL POSTEROriginal post

So my idiot-self forgot to mention that I changed the oil after the alternator, and everything was fine. Filled it up, no leaks/drips, then topped it off the following day at the start of the morning with nothing prevalent and it's holding... Needless to say, I need to check and it could be on the top side of the tube.

POST 10Original post

Have you ever wondered how the car knows that the SAI is not working? It does a self-test regularly when the engine is running in a predictable condition. When the car is fully warmed up and running smoothly, the ECU will turn on the Secondary Air Pump to introduce extra air into the exhaust. It expects the O2 sensor to pick up the extra O2 in the signal path and detects a running lean condition. If those conditions are not met (more than once), the ECU throws up a Check Engine Light and an error code related to the SAI. Your unplugging the secondary air pump has caused the CEL and the error code.

POST 11 / ORIGINAL POSTEROriginal post

Thanks for the feedback and assistance so far! Disassembled and rebuilt the SAI (everything looked as should), tested it, and the buzz-saw sound is near eliminated. However, when you push on the hose connected to the elbow that channels air in, you do hear a faint murmur of that awful sound. It is infinitely better than what was there, but I ordered the three bushings that mount the SAI to the bracket, and am going to take another look at the hose to see why that specific area, when pressure is applied, gives a faint screech. EDIT: now it seems to be intermittent, high pitched, then subsides, like at certain intervals there is metal contact or something is not functioning, and referencing earlier posts, maybe the air shutoff valve (S99711324990). Any way to actually test the valve on its own? Compressed air? Did a visual inspection of the oil filler pipe, and it appears well intact, and refitted the cap in the even it wasn't properly seated after changing the oil. Still have yet to get out and drive the car since I've been at work, but will report back if the (slightly) wonky RPM behavior is still there. Thanks again and any additional ideas or known solutions are welcome. Really appreciate it.

POST 12 / ORIGINAL POSTEROriginal post

Still getting intermittent saw sounds. Blew the SAI out, disassembled with compressed air. Hell of a lot of carbon (or at least very fine dust) to include chunks. Going to apply some light lubricant, and reinstall. Fingers crossed.

POST 13Original post

Stop screwing with it and replace the damn thing....lol If you do a search there is a Mercedes SAI pump that is a direct replacement for LOTs less expense ... Search the threads for the part number ...it will save you loads of $$$ ..

POST 14Original post

I should have a quiet 3.4l mk1 pump in one of my bins that i am sure i could be talked i to letting it go. Pm f u want it.

POST 15 / ORIGINAL POSTEROriginal post

We greased it and it's running well now. Screwing with it is how you learn right? I mean that's how half this community keeps their cars on the road with DIY.

POST 16Original post

Yes you will learn that greasing a rusty old failing bearing will quieten it down ( think miniature IMS bearings).....for a while.......If you really want to learn you will source new bearings and replace them....I just thought the hours you have spent and are going to spend, that your time was worth more and was trying to help with good advice....but you know what your time is worth more than I do ...

POST 17Original post

I agree that with a DIY mentality (screwing with it) is how one learns and the forum is at least 25% DIYers. For professional, and semi-professionals, whose times are billed by the hours, screwing with it costs something and someone has to pay for that. As for me, I have stopped screwing with it a long time ago. Replace with factory parts and go on with life. Spend more time with the grand kids and my wife.

POST 18 / ORIGINAL POSTEROriginal post

Quotes source post: 19713631

Totally didn't intend to come off as snarky, and agree, when it does come back, depending on time, I will either replace the bearings or just get a new unit. Thanks again everyone! I have a pretty demanding job, crap commute, but if I can make the time, I will. To each their own

POST 19Original post

Quotes source post: 19714783

It's Sokay , it is just an SAI pump !!! .I have been on this Forum for over a decade, you have to have a fairly think skin....lol....I get really upset when I see people screwing around with something that can end up with catastrophic engine failure...

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