C4 vs C2 vs C4S

I was looking at buying a C2 996 until the other day when I saw a C4S and I really liked its widebody looks. That in turn made me think about the C4 but I am not sure I like that as surely the 4WD just adds extra weight. Does anyone have experience of C2 and C4S? I will drive both to see what I think but I would like to hear opinions please.

Hi! (Just to clarify: The 996 C4S is a 3.6 litre four wheel drive car and the C4 is exactly the same mechanically but just doesn't have the same 'Turbo' look as the C4S. Hope you don't mind me pointing this out but I'm not sure how new to Porsche you are and I'm very aware of how confusing the different models can be!!) I was in exactly the same predicament 3 years ago - and eventually decided to get the C2 996 (MY 2003). The C4S totally had me on looks - and still does - but I was looking for the "purest" current (at the time) form of a 911 - and the C4S just wasn't it for me. There's a lot been written about a loss of "feel" or "feedback" from the steering on the C4S. This is because the front wheels are being (partially) driven. They don't say that it's like driving a front wheel drive car but that it's just not quite as "informative"as the C2. I think that you'd have to own or have access to one for quite some time to really notice the difference. In the end what put me off was: lack of steering "feel", smaller boot (due to the front differential), higher tyre wear and (subsequently) higher costs, slightly less economical (due to extra running gear being driven). Cheers.

Personally, my preference would be a C2 (Coupe with 6-spd), but I can see why some people might like the C4S.

doesn't the C4S have uprated brakes (off the turbo) and uprated suspension over the c2 and c4?? Ultimately irrelevant as you can buy a decent C2/C4 and uprate the brakes and suspension for less than the premium you pay for the C4S.

Yep - certainly confusing with all the different models. Clarkson does a good job of explaining the difference between the 996 C4, C4S and Turbo here ... http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh484FWze5w Enjoy!

With a C4S you get - sports suspension - widebody - turbo brakes - turbo-style wheels (but not hollow-spoke like the turbo's) - Sound pack as standard - Electric memory seats as standard Somehow, they are much more than just a widebody C4- the whole thing just works beautifully. Evo magazine said it was the pick of the 911 range at the time (inc turbo, but except GT3!) You will pay more, but they appear to hold their value better than a standard C4. Many come very well specced too. Some prefer the purity of a nice C2. Others prefer the security of the C4. Have a drive of the different ones and see what you think. McGurk have a nice looking but relatively high miles C4S for £29k

we found the reduced luggage space in the c4(and c4s)a real pain so i would choose a c2 or 2s now if going back to a 911

For me it came down to the extra lard. I could really tell the difference from the C2 to the C4S. I've knocked up a list of the DIN weights for the 996 to help illustrate the difference. (I know DIN weights are a bit unrealistic and the actual car in road trim will weight a bit more but the differences in weight will be the same) [FONT=courier new"] For example a C4S Tip can weigh a not inconsiderable 180kg (that's 28 stone!) more than a C2 Manual and it won't have a single horsepower more to drag that extra weight around [FONT=courier new"] Most numbers straight from the brochures but I'd be pleased to be corrected DIN Weights [FONT=courier new"] 1999-2002 C2 1320kg GT3 Mk1 1350kg C2 Tip 1365kg C4 1370kg C2 Cab 1395kg C4 Tip 1415kg C2 Cab Tip 1440kg C4 Cab 1445kg C4 Cab Tip 1490kg [FONT=courier new"] [FONT=courier new"] Face Lift post MY 2002 GT3 Mk2 RS 1330kg C2 1370kg GT3 Mk2 1380kg C2 Tip 1425kg C4 1430kg GT2 1440kg Targa 1440kg C2 Cab 1450kg C4 1485kg Targa Tip 1495kg C4S 1495kg C2 Cab Tip 1505kg C4 Cab 1510kg C4S Tip 1550kg C4 Cab Tip 1565kg C4S Cab 1565kg Turbo 1590kg C4S Cab Tip 1620kg Turbo Tip 1630kg Turbo Cab 1660kg Turbo Cab Tip 1700kg

Interesting stuff - the C4S I was looking at does have a factory engine upgrade of 20bhp. Would the better brakes etc not make for better real world performance here in rainy blighty? Also I see high mileage makes a real dent in resale value. Is 75k+ really that high? If I am intending to put 15k p/yr on and have the car for two years should I be looking at a max of 45k to ensure I don't lose out badly?

[FONT=courier new"] I couldn't resist playing around with a few numbers to give a comparison of power to weight for the many 996 variants compared to a standard face-lift C2. So a 3.6 320bhp C2 gives a baseline of 100%. As we're looking DIN weights and bhp for all cars the percentage variances should be a valid comparison. As leemich sounds like he's looking at a rare x51 kitted car (fitted as standard to the Anniversary) I've added some of those. (I think I'm right in saying the x51 was only available as an option on the manual but I might be wrong). I thought I remebered there might also have been a x51 kit for the pre face-lift 3.4 cars giving 320bhp but I not sure if there was. I've also added the x50 Turbo kit which also covers the final Turbo S variant that had it as standard. [FONT=courier new"] DIN Weights 1998-2002 Weight|Power | bhp/kg | Compared to C2 320bhp [FONT=courier new"]C2 1320kg 300bhp 0.2273 97.30% GT3 Mk1 1350kg 355bhp 0.2630 112.58% C2 Tip 1365kg 300bhp 0.2198 94.09% C4 1370kg 300bhp 0.2190 93.75% C2 Cab 1395kg 300bhp 0.2151 92.07% C4 Tip 1415kg 300bhp 0.2120 90.77% C2 Cab Tip 1440kg 300bhp 0.2083 89.19% C4 Cab 1445kg 300bhp 0.2076 88.88% C4 Cab Tip 1490kg 300bhp 0.2013 86.20% Face Lift post MY 2002 GT3 Mk2 RS 1330kg 381bhp 0.2865 122.64% C2 1370kg 320bhp 0.2336 100.00% C2 (x51) 1370kg 345bhp 0.2518 107.81% GT3 Mk2 1380kg 381bhp 0.2761 118.20% C2 Tip 1425kg 320bhp 0.2246 96.14% C4 1430kg 320bhp 0.2238 95.80% C4 (x51) 1430kg 345bhp 0.2413 103.29% GT2 Mk1 1440kg 462bhp 0.3208 137.36% [FONT=courier new"]GT2 Mk2 1440kg 483bhp 0.3354 143.60% [FONT=courier new"]Targa 1440kg 320bhp 0.2222 95.14% C2 Cab 1450kg 320bhp 0.2207 94.48% C4 Tip 1485kg 320bhp 0.2155 92.26% Targa Tip 1495kg 320bhp 0.2140 91.64% C4S 1495kg 320bhp 0.2140 91.64% C4S (x51) 1495kg 345bhp 0.2308 98.80% C2 Cab Tip 1505kg 320bhp 0.2126 91.03% C4 Cab 1510kg 320bhp 0.2119 90.73% C4S Tip 1550kg 320bhp 0.2065 88.39% C4 Cab Tip 1565kg 320bhp 0.2045 87.54% C4S Cab 1565kg 320bhp 0.2045 87.54% Turbo 1590kg 420bhp 0.2642 113.09% Turbo S (x50) 1590kg 450bhp 0.2830 121.17% C4S Cab Tip 1620kg 320bhp 0.1975 84.57% Turbo Tip 1630kg 420bhp 0.2577 110.31% TurboS Tip(x50) 1630kg 450bhp 0.2761 118.19% Turbo Cab 1660kg 420bhp 0.2530 108.32% TurboS Cab(x50) 1660kg 450bhp 0.2711 116.06% Turbo Cab Tip 1700kg 420bhp 0.2471 105.77% TurboS Cab Tip(x50)1700kg 450bhp 0.2647 113.33%

Great posts Andy! Lee, at your budget I'd be looking at a 996 turbo. It's going to be in a different league to the Carrera, and you're likely to lose less in depreciation too.

Great post Andy... v interesting to see the figures, some surprises there. Anyway, having just driven my C4S down a very very wet M42, I'm happy to sacrifice a bit of bhp per kg for less buttock-clenching over the standing water!

Great stuff Andy! Fascinating - Now Rodney has yet another reason why he chose a GT3 over a Turbo!

Rich, stop trying to change the subject just because I'm busy talking up turbo prices again! [8D] Actually the GT3RS engines usually have over 400bhp on tap (unofficially they get the cream of the GT3 engines) making them look even better!

I'd be interested to see Boxster S/Cayman on there too- that might be surprising also...

+1 C4S all the way.... looks gorgeous, handles beautifully.... the extra weight is almost a positive, means the rubber is firmly glued to the road!! (of course i'm not biased at all....)

Yep, No contest C4S as definately the best looking 996[ ] Alan

Ooo-er, I can feel the 993 "Kylie" vs "J-Lo" argument coming back.

Very interesting - but why does the anglicised version of "KY J-Lo" spring to my mind [8|]? Sorry to lower the standards of posts on this forum, but I could not resist it [ ].

Big rear end, great to look at the from the front,fun to drive and very forgiving........4S all the way for me

Clarkson says the 4S is a fake, for those who have not seen the review (see link to clip in my earlier post) ... C2 got to be best for the purists

and we all believe what he says dont we[ ]

Clarkson thinks the 911 shouldn't even exist! There again neither should his hairstyle[ ]