lower arm bushes and oil burning!

Hi everyone! I am the proud owner of a 996 C4S, its not that new, only an 02 plate, but I am really excited as this is my first Porsche. However, there are a couple of things that are troubling me, firstly is that I have driven 160 miles and its already gone down 3 bars on the oil level check at startup. The garage who sold it to me have said they replaced the RMS so it shouldn't be that, there's also no oil on the floor so I don't know what the issue might be, or whether this level of burn is normal? Any ideas? The other issue is that the 111 point check showed up "lower arms showing signs of wear" which when I phoned the dealer who inspected to expand on, said that all lower bushes were showing signs of wear and would need replacing before the next service (next Jan approx). The cost of replacement is £1600, do you think this is something the garage who sold it to me should be putting right or contributing towards? and is this wear normal on a car of that age with approx 50000 on the clock? Many thanks in advance for your advice

I would be very worried by the oil consumption. Each bar is 0.25 litres, so that's 3/4 litre in 160 mils, or just over 200 miles to the litre. To give a comparison, my car doesn't drop a bar in 6000 miles between oil changes! Take it to an independent Porsche specialist and get them to do a cylinder leakage test. This will tell you if there is excessive piston ring leakage, or valve seat wear. I'm assuming it isn't leaking all over the garage floor, by the way. Do you get a lot of smoke from the exhaust? An independent should also be able to check if the lower wishbones do need changing, and the cost should be closer to half that at an OPC. The wishbones are about £150 each, and about 1/2 hour each to change.

many thanks for your response. I've not noticed any oil on the floor and I can't see any smoking from the engine... if its a problem with one of the things you suggested, how much would it cost to fix roughly?

It could be in the thousands, I would imagine. If there is a serious problem then you should take it up with the seller and, if necessary, Trading Standards. Maybe I'm painting a black picture, but I would definitely get it looked at sooner rather than later. Some 996's do tend to use a bit more oil than others, but the official figure for maximum consumption is, IIRC, 1000km/litre. Most 996 engines tend to use less after a few thousand miles, so yours should be nicely run in. I doubt that many higher users get anywhere near as bad a comsumption as you are getting.

crikey.... is this something my porsche warranty would cover?

Before you get too concerned are you on a level surface (like a petrol station forecourt) when the reading is taken? It is very sensitive to cambers. Then if that doesn't show a decent reading try using the dipstck in accordance with your manual. The oil gauge on my Boxster was faulty, don't rely on it. It's rare to find a 996 that consumes so much oil. As for the control arms, don't replace them until they need replacing. They are around £180 each, buy them from eurocarparts and get an independent Porsche garage to advise you/fit them for you.

many thanks. the car is level and i haven't used the dipstick as yet, but will check. The level went down 1 bar after each time i drove it, approx 50 miles each time. does the process of replacing the arms also replace the lower bushes?

Hopefully you are right Rod. Yes, the bushes are in the lower arms.

hmm, some good news maybe, I checked the oil(from cold) with the dipstick this morning and it was showing to be full, and even fractionaly higher than the max dot. The oil indicator on start up shows only two bars down instead of three.... I think I will just keep an eye on it. However, I did notice though that the coolant is well below the min level, so that's a job to sort out now..! thank you for all of your help guys. I will report back and let you know if I see any more movement over the next few days....

Sounds like good news indeed. My gauge always reads exactly the same as the dipstick so I tend to rely on it. I shouldn't have assumed that they all do that. Sorry if I jumped the gun and got you worried.

If you do an oil level check just after switching off the engine there is a high probability that you will get a false reading especially if the oil is not hot. Wait for a while and then do a check when all the oil has drained down.

Don't just top up the coolant, you have to try and get to the root of the cause. It's usually either a faulty cap on the header tank (a few pounds), or a cracked header tank (~£50 from Eurocarparts + 1-2 hours fitting + coolant). Look at the tank, see if you can see white residue down the side (cracked tank), or just beside the cap (faulty cap), that will give you a clue.

My coolant level always settles to just below the minimum. It does not fall any further but if I top it up it always drops back to the same level. Both 996s I have had have been the same. It might be worth watching it for a while to see what happens before you worry too much. Terry

thank you for all of your help guys, I really appreciate this; I'm unfortunately not very technically minded with these sorts of things! Re: oil level. I made a point of driver another 150 miles or so today to see whether it went down further. The bars don't appear to have gone down further, on start up it still shows between 2 or 3 bars down. When I check the oil when its warm the level is down, but not too far, its right at the top end of the neck of the dipstick, just before the bulbous part where the second dot it. I guess this is due to the fact the oil hasn't gone down back in to the sump (as toals suggested). I think I am just going to have to keep an eye on this... Re: coolant, I can't see any evidence of either a problem at the cap or with the tank itself. I think I'll take it to my local specialist and get them to have a look. On that point, is the coolant for the car a special porsche version? it looks very water like, not pink or blue as I would have expected....

You're right it should be pink or blue, not colourless. If it's just been running on water then it will be a lot harder to see the telltale signs of where the leak is occurring. I agree you should see a specialist about it, if only to replace the water with the proper coolant solution (not an easy task)

Thanks Rod. I can't get the car to my local specialist until next saturday. In the meantime, is the coolant something my local quick fit could change today or should I just top her up in the meantime with some neat blue coolant; the reason I ask is that I've heard there's snow on the way this week and I'm worried what might happen if it is only water- might it freeze?

AIUI, it's quite difficult to refill the coolant without causing an airlock unless you know what you're doing. Personally, I'd give Quick Fit & their ilk an exremely wide berth. [ ] Chucking some neat additive in will hardly make a difference with a 20 litre cooling system.

Nick is absolutely right, it's not just a matter of empty out the old, pour in the new. I've heard the whole car is tilted at an angle and revved lots of times to remove air pockets. If your car isn't being kept in a warm garage I'd get it to a specialist ASAP

regrettably the car is kept outside and I can't get it to the specialist til next weekend, I guess I'll just have to keep my fingers crossed on the weather this week! Thank you for all of your help guys

I have a C4S now on 20000 miles on a '02 plate. I have previously posted on this site with some of the concerns you have. On the oil front it will give an impression of being low fron the bars when cold-it should be up to working temperature for the computer to measure it correctly (have you sussed how to do this?). The fail safe is the dip stick. All other checks aside, visible leaks, oil in water etc your engine may be using an amount of oil. As Richard has said experiences vary-Porsche state that a litre can be consumed every 1000 miles, each bar is 250ml- some drivers have reported as much as 1.5lt per k. I am currently still in the litre per thouand mile. It is down to the rings and bore being extremely. I would play safe on the dip stick at temperature-putting in to much oil can cause severe damage also. On the coolant front my car sits permantly when warm at just under minimum. Who did you buy the car from? It sounds as if a good service prior to sale would have been prudent on their part. I did have a header tank on a boxster that had a pinhole leak, very hard to detect prior to bursting but as previously advised buy from europart, the coolant change is not straight forward and the dealers/indies will heve the nak which will save you a lot of heart ache........Stay well away from anything quick that doesn't fit-with best intent they can do more damage and cause you more worry and they won't stand for any comeback-find a good indie or negotiate with a dealer due to the age of your car and get it sorted so you can enjoy it! I'd definately speak to the seller if you've paid book price......

thank you robbo, I really appreciate all of the excellent advice and experiences people are sharing - Its good to know I'm not the only one to have concerns and queries on these things. I brought the car from RSJ Sports Cars, they said the car would be and was fully checked by them before they sent it for the 111 point check and that they would also repair anything that was found to be an issue. It had also had a service only 1 month ago. When I agreed the deal and were preparing it, they told me they found a significant RMS leak before sending it for the 111 point inspection and said they fixed it, at the same time they gave me the option of getting the clutch changed for the cost of just the parts only(£400). I am unfortunately, based on past experienced of purchases, now somone who doesn't trust anyone at all. Part of me says great, they've fixed the RMS which has saved me money and problems, and kindly installed the clutch for the cost price of the parts... but the other part of me says, did they really chnage the RMS and if they did, did they really change the clutch or was it a way of clawing some money back? Also, when I spoke with the guy at Hatfield who had performed the 111 point inspection to understand the detail of the items on the 111 point check which were flagged(because he was pretty vague), and asked him for some direction on what could be the cause of the oil issue, he was very very unkeen to say anything. He completely diverted the questions which I found odd, becaue I was only after some advice on whether I should be getting the work done etc. He would not offer any advice or direction really on any of the issues; it was all really odd. It just smelt like he was either hiding something, or perhaps felt that he couldn't say anything because RSJ put some good work his way.... that's probably me being suspicious, but I am thinking about getting the car fully inspected by the local specialist, just to make sure there's nothing that has been hidden which will be found next year when the next service is due, and then it will be fortuitously (for them) long enough in the future to look as though it could easily have happend whilst I had the car and not at the point of sale... crikey, do I sound far too suspicious and cynical!!!??

Sadly I think you are right to be sceptical. Maybe an option is to get an independant inspector (I've heard good things about Peter Morgan, I have no experience though) and not disclose the history to blank out any loyalties or affiliations. I'd be inclined to go back to RSJ and talk it over with them and at least offer them the opportunity to right any wrongs......These issues are in the public forum and bad press is not something they desire. Take it back for them to look at and resolve, they should want to see you happy so give them chance to do the right thing by the both of you, thats my penace worth.

Hi everyone! Right, I thought I'd give you an update on the issues I described. For the last week I have driven the car to work and taken the total driven miles to 550 to see how far the oil went down and interestingly the number of bars hasn't gone down, checking the oil from the dipstick also suggested no visible movement also. Although I have noticed there is a little bit of blue smoke in the mornings when I start the car, although it disappears within a few seconds and is fairly minimal. So, I went to my local specialist and talked through the problems with him, he was incredibly helpful.The specialist checked the car level on a perfectly flat surface and it only showed 1 bar from top, which is where he said it should be. I explained where the oil was when I got the car and where it showed on the distick. Basically he thinks the problem is that it was overfilled originaly and the car has been burning it off. I guess this figures because the garage had replaced the RMS so they could indeed have overfilled it. So good news on that front, although I'm still going to keep an eye, just in case. Re lower arms, that doesn't appear to be an issue. It had an MOT today and it never came up, no advisories whatsoever, so I am happy with leaving that for the time being. However, on the coolant front, not such good news. When the specialist walked over to the car he told me I had a coolant leak because of the smell from the car (I thought that was just brake smell), and closer inspection suggests there's a leaking front radiator(s). Additionaly he asked about the air conditioning performance which is really poor, is hardly blowing any cold air, which he suspects could therefore mean that the compresssor(I think he said) might also be suffering. Now! Interestingly, when I had phoned RSJ sports cars a couple of weeks back to speak to the guy about the oil and arms issue, I got put through to the service section and some other guy took a message for a call back because the person I was dealing with wasn't available. When he asked what it was about, I said some items had been identified as issues with the car (not saying which) and he said, oh, you mean the radiator? At the time, I said no, because I knew nothing of the issue and guessed he must have confused me with somone else. But now thinking about it, it appears they knew of the problem and passed it on to me..! After I got back home I phoned RSJ sports cars re: the radiators to see what there thoughts were. The guy was really not pleased to hear from me, and he basically said he couldn't remember if it came up when they inspected the car and would come back to me. However, he did say that if it wasn't picked up in the 111 point inspection then it would be covered by the porsche warranty. This again makes me really suspicious, I'm wondering whether there was some agreement to keep it shtum so that they wouldn't have to correct the problem and that it would then could be passed on to a warranty issue once I found it... Rotten radiators don't suddenly happen a week after taking ownership of the car! I'd be interested to hear your thoughts guys...

Yes, I can appreciate why you feel sceptical.......The oil issue seems right, they all give a little bit of blue if they have been stood. On the coolant front I think you may be on a highway to nothing. Rads do tend to rot at the front lower, for future reference it is worth flushing them well with a hose to get rid of corroding salt and remove any abrading gravel/stones/grit from it. Some folf use a vacuun cleaner before washing to get rid of leaves etc that hold the damp. They tend to collapse at the bottom. If (a) dealer can get by without replacing it I would imagine (most) would, profit/business etc. I would not expect the warranty to cover damage to or long standing rot. If that is declined I would go back to the dealer and remonstrate strongly that it wasn't identified on the 111 and that they should rectify it out of good will if they want return custom. After all each time you mention their name here it is an advert so it would be good if we all read they sorted the problem and you were happy. It would make me want to shop with them. A little investment in a customer will always bring them another. I can think of a bike dealer I have continued to bad mouth for over 10 years............

Thanks Robbo, yeah, I feel you are right, to be honest its not the problems that disappoints me, its just lack of honesty really (assuming they knew ofcourse - I'd best cover myself for libel reasons!! ). If there was some agreement to not report the radiator issue then I guess they were trying to help in some part thinking that I wouldn't have to pay because they hoped the warranty would/will. I had a similar issue a number of years ago with my local VW dealer, in those days I wasn't that flush with cash and they got me a 'deal' on a car by, unknown to me, lying to the finance company about how many miles the car had so it became more attractive to underwrite. When it came to near the end of the agreement period, I discovered they had lied by saying it had over 35k less miles on the clock! the problem being that it was a baloon with a fixed agreed mileage and I would have been stung for several thousands of pounds worth of over-mileage if I had completed the term and handed the car back! fortunately VW were brilliant and got me in car at pretty much cost price. Anyway, I'll see what they've got to say on monday when they come back to me. I am somone who remains loyal to companies I have a good experience with (or at least who correct and problems), so if they sort this out then I'll definitely post some positive news!

I'm not going to try to teach you to suck eggs but an independant view is often objective- I wouldn't go down the road of arguing what they did or didn't know (it will only aggravate) but focus on fact, it wasn't picked up and should have been as it has failed so soon. Explain your expectations of them to replace it whether under warranty or not, be indifferent. Point out your loyalties for good business. Email them this, its more customers watching! I will watch with many others with interest.

Hi, Sorry to hear of your concerns - you want to be enjoying your car, not worrying about it. The good news (I think) is that you shouldn't have concerns having purchased from RSJ Sports Cars. They are a long established Porsche indi and Joel of RSJ regularly contributes over on Pistonheads in the Porsche forum. I'd be surprised if they don't rectify any issue as they won't want any bad press here or on PH. If you do get any resistance ask to speak to Joel and say that you are making your view on PCGB forum and Pistonheads - that will get things moving for you ! Back to the radiators ... are you saying that the car passed its 111 point check and you have the OPC warrantee? If so, no problems ... as the radiators are covered. My nearside one was replaced foc at the last service - I didn't even realise it was leaking till the OPC called me to say it was being replaced. Hope it all works out and let us know how you get on.