Porsche or TVR?? - Page 3 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

Think about depreciation, servicing and repairs. One of your options will work on a daily basis, the other won't. >> Edited by Roadrunner on Sunday 16th June 13:18

As a TVR fan I hate to say it, but a second-hand 993 makes more sense than a new Cerbera, however a second-hand Cerbera would make the most sense, a 12 month old sorted 4.5 would have suffered the first years depreciation (high as in ALL cars) and should also be reasonably reliable. With the saving in initial outlay you could also buy a 'runabout' for the odd day or so the TVR will be in the garage. The 993 is a wonderful car, but, its not a TVR!

As Kevin says, the 993 is a wonderful car but it's not a TVR. Now, we know it's not a TVR when it comes to working like a car should, ie it starts every morning, it doesn't leak, and bits don't fall off at speed. But Kevin means it's not a TVR in the excitement sense, and I have to agree with him - but only when it comes to the 'normal' 993s. Buy a Carrera or Carrera 4 and you will be nodding off at the wheel, despite the legendary 911 character (unless you tweak them like Scottster is doing). They are just too refined, too good, for someone who is used to a TVR. Once you've marvelled how it hasn't been designed (and probably built) by the chairman's dog, the novelty of sub-300 bhp may wear off. The solution is simple, you buy a 993RS or 993 Turbo. And if they are out of your price range, you go for a 964RS or even a 965 Turbo 2. If absolute reliabilty and open topped motoring appealed, the Boxster S is a sensible choice, too. I am getting a 964RS this week, after months of deliberation. Even the turbos seem *slightly* dull compared to the single mindedness of the RS variants, but then the turbos are much more useable day to day. Rgds Domster

Turbos' are also less likely to put you in the ditch....

...Also, was looking at an oldish Evo where they hammered 10 or so cars round a track. Normal line up, 4*4 Japs, lotus, 993turbo, TVR Cerbera 4.5, bike engined cars..... Anyway, the TVR got 4/10 and the Porker 7/10. However, the Porker only just beat the Tiv. Probably quite a good summary, TVR f'ing quick in a straight line, but you put your life in your own hands if you want to go round corners at speed. Porker, very refined but maybe lacking the out'n'out seat of your pants ride. If its going to be an every day car then I suggest seat of you pants may become tiresome.

Dodging hedgerows makes the morning commute more exciting

Quote Porsche 911 Carrera (993) or TVR Cerbera (4.2 or 4.5)? or Hairdresser or a real man?

The real problem I have with TVR's is that they are made by people who think Blackpool is a nice place to live. Now does it surprise you, that when trusted to put a car together they fail miserably. Had TVR been located within the M25 I may well have bought one

Went round the factory recently, I was impressed with the way the cars are built, everyone seemed busy. Went away trying to figure out how I could afford a Tuscan. I’d go for a TVR, after seeing Porsche at the Canary Wharf MotorExpo I can say they do nothing for me. The TVR’s look stunning or what about a Noble?

I've had both.A TVR Chimaera 450 and now a Porsche 930 3.3 Turbo Flatnose.I had the TVR 9 months did 1000 miles. Had my Porsche just over a month and done 1000 miles +!! Reason I find the Porsche much more of a complete car.I always thought the tiv was going to breakdown at any minute(it didn't)The TVR dosn't go round corner as U/V says.

Buy both! I've had a 4.5 Cerby and it was sex on wheels! With a de-catted sports exhaust it popped and banged to truly anti-social levels. Reasonably quick in the 'real world' but with the exception of European superhighways you'll be a lot faster in most 993/996 variants: I remember the first day I drove my (then standard 993TT) after ditching the Cerby - astonishing dynamic superiority. So, fit a sports exhaust to the porker of your choice and whilst it'll never match a Blackpool rocker aurally it'll still sound mighty fine. Having said that, VERY little matches the sheer grunt of Mr. Wheeler's flat plane crank at 150 MPH+ (where possible, of course!) - you'll destroy an awful lot of fine exotica in Europe if the road's long enough. They are generally a bit 'tempremental' so don't buy it as a main mode of A-B. To be honest, with enough parking space I'd certainly return to a second hand post-98 4.5 job (all the gremlins should have been exorcised by the first owner-ouch!) and IMHO it's right up there with 355s, Diablos and Porkers as a design classic. BUT, knowing what I know now, if you gotta make the choice - it has to be the German. Whatever you get though, you can't really lose in the mindless grin department. Good luck to any who face this choice.

Waheeey! Pork v Trevor is back in the limelight! Bring it on...

Paul V, No wonder Porsche at Canary wharf did nothing for you! How could a display of a couple of GT3's and models compare to the spectacle that is a 1965 Mini? No Contest.

I've got an '81 911 SC and an '85 350i TVR. Problem solved! Seriously the TVR is much more fun to drive, and I use the 911 when the weathers bad. Danny

After 10 years of TVR ownership (wedge/Chimaera/Griffith) which I thoroughly enjoyed, including a stint on the club committee, running the club web site and running the Berks region, I am currently looking for a nice late low mileage 993 C4 to replace both my cars and use every day. Maybe I'm getting old.

Nah, just seeing sense Steve. Welcome to the dark side!!!

I guarantee you will do two things when you get your Porsche, Steve. 1) You'll get a sports exhaust, as the 993 is like a hairdrier without it. 2) You'll watch your words carefully around your TVR mates, as it is very easy to start enjoying your new found build quality at their expense. In fact, I doubt you'll ever own a TVR again after Porsche ownership... Anyway, sensible decision and welcome aboard the Porsche forum! Domster

With the TVR breakdowns are always at the back of your mind and you can face a cartel when changing to a non-TVR afterwards. If you can put up with the looks and lack of "badge" try driving an M Coupe. EVO Magazine loved theirs. I ended up with a Boxter S, awesome handling and build but lacking in straight line performance - this does get annoying with time. Do like the idea of the Noble too but don't think it would take Golf Clubs...:-)

Is that you GregE240??? Dropped the Merc monicker now have we Aha - checking profiles I see that it isn't. We have *two* Boxster S driving Gregs ladies and gents. Any other 964RS driving Doms? Anyway, welcome to the board Greg and sorry to both of you for getting you both mixed up. Two Boxster S Gregs. Who'd have thought it. >> Edited by domster on Monday 5th August 16:56

Sorry Domster, but I believe that steve-p went from a 928 to a TVR in the first place!! davidy Still saving hard for a 911 with all the family committments!

That is true, I did have a 4 year old 928S2 for 18 months in 1990, and it was one of the least reliable cars I have ever owned, but I was going to overlook that! In fact it was such a deeply unsatisfying experience that I have been trying to forget it ever happened ever since

Obviously I'll have to have a sports exhaust - goes without saying! How much do they typically cost?

I never realised. But then again, I would *never* recommend a 928 as a reliable car In fact, it is as far away as you can get from the pure driving pleasures of a 911, especially an RS model if you wanted to take that pleasure to an extreme. In some ways, the 928 was a lousy Porsche but a great Aston Martin... Cheers Domster PS Sports exhaust for 993 like Scottsters (sounds superb) was about 750 quid I think. >> Edited by domster on Monday 5th August 17:10

That's where you are going wrong, you see

Nah, less than that - only about £450 I seem to remember. Give me a shout when you need one and I'll let you know where to go one.

steve-p Long time since we've spoken, but now with two children and no TVRs, I feel the need for speed! I want a 2+2, that I can use, sprint and trackday and a Cerbera cannot be described as cheap to run, so a 911 it has to be. dom We also went from Porker to TVR (944 to Griffith500) and both were reliable cars!! davidy

I remember calling it a lousy unprintable something or other a few times, but I don't think Aston Martin were the exact words I used! I have since decided that it was obviously just a bad one. These things happen with all marques, some more than others, but it happens. It wasn't all that exciting to drive but the depreciation was certainly awesome. Like I said, it is almost forgotten, so I didn't think it was worth mentioning. I really don't think one bad car is typical of a marque or a model and it has not made one bit of difference to my current yearning for an air cooled flat six mounted in a peculiar place

The aston martin connection was simply comparing its grand touring sensibilities with those of the aston marque. The 928 was never a circuit munching monster at heart, like the best Porsches. Astons are equally unreliable as 928s but with a bit more character, as far as I can tell. davidy - you *can* get reliable Tivs and unreliable porkers (without wishing to open this old chestnut again ), but it isn't a general rule. And I think everyone knows that. If you want living proof of a man who found a TVR was the best advert for a Porsche, speak to Scottster. His Griff was a pile of donkey poo, and we both know of a Griff 500 that should have been drowned at birth too. I know of a few others, and *some* have been fine, but it's still 50/50. As for my day to day experience with 911s, the ones I have known intimately (three of Daves, one of mine, few that friends have had) have been really well made and well behaved, more like a 20/80 dog to delight ratio! Scottster - sorry I got the price wrong. I thought the back box was more for some reason. Cheers guys Domster

Will do, just as soon as I get something to fit it to... Got to go and read '911 & Porsche World' now - things are obviously getting bad.

"Astons are equally unreliable as 928s " Sorry, but with regular servicing, the 928's are not unreliable, and can easily be used as an everyday car - many of them still are being daily, and that's not just the GTS's but some of the older ones as well. True the 928 might not have followed the conventional Porsche path, but then, what exactly is the Cayenna? (sp?)

Oh, and I forgot to ask: Do any of you guys talking about 928's, actually own one?

Isnt it the difference between flying in an home made icarus hang glider (TVR) and a sleak lear jet (basically anything german i'm afriad to say?) TVR nice cars, until they start falling apart?

Now I could be easily tempted out of my TVR into a Porsche, only stumbling block is what I get for my money, £20k 911's (RHD) just don't meet my expectations, compared to £20k Cerberas, all right the 911 'may' be cheaper to run but the interior is (IMO) dull, are there any special editions with better (or stripped out) interiors, sorry if this is a dumb question but I've not really looked into this much yet, but I fancy a change and at the moment a Cerbera is going to take some beating

928GTS, I am not putting 928s down massively, so please don't think that I am. I have experience of a number of S4s, owned by an ex-boss. It was, in comparison to the 911s he owned, an expensive to run and slightly more unreliable car - partly because it was more complicated. I should add that he really loved his 928s and never got on with his 911s, until the 993 came out. With regular servicing 928s can indeed be reliable, and if you have a GTS, you have about 15 years of 928 development behind your car. That said, Astons can be fairly reliable with regular servicing too, but the engineering and build integrity is not as high on these IMHO as even an early 928. The point being made is that a 928 is a heavy and complicated Porsche, and that makes it inherently more expensive to run and more unreliable than other lighter, less complicated models. For a GT I think they're marvellous, and was even considering a GTS at one point, but I made a much bigger mistake than any 928 owner ever has - I went for a Lotus Carlton instead - you don't even get the V8 burble and a late 928 would be a doddle to run compared to one. Cheers Domster PS I would love to see more Porsche sports car range delineation, from fast motorway cruisers to budget entry models and homologation racers. However, the Cayenne is something I don't like. They should have just done a joint venture on one VW version, like the did with Audi on the RS2 estate. That way Porsche buyers can get their sensible car without it diluting the marque values. >> Edited by domster on Tuesday 6th August 10:21

Raceboy, there is really only one model in the 20k price area to fit your bill - the 964RS. This is a stripped out homologation car for the Cup racing series, with slightly over 2000 examples made, mostly LHD. You could try a Club Sport 911 from the mid eighties though, which may be slightly cheaper. If you had a house to remortgage, there are other stripped out models - the 993RS, the GT2, the 964RSR, even an early 2.7RS from the seventies.

Raceboy, have to admit that if it's flash interiors and speed you're after then you're best off staying with the Cerby, there is nothing (in RHD certainly) for that sort of money that will come close. I could give you the usual Porsche spiel about 'what you're actually getting for your money' but you'll have heard that a million times before. You should try a 964RS as Domster says (even so, you'll still get the same interior - in an even MORE boring format, nothing electric etc and you'll struggle to get one for £20k - budget for £25k entry price really). It won't be as quick in a straight line as the Cerby but the handling will impress you I promise and chuck a sports zorst on as Domster has and the noise will be great too. Depends what you're after really, but you have to remember that they are more expensive cars for a very good reason (it's not all down to speed and fancy leather shaped interiors) so if you can go for LHD you'll get a far better choice for your cash. Otherwise speak to the Halifax and get another £20k from your house, then you can really have fun

Another thing would be, and call me vain for this, the 911's would be 'old shapes' whereas the TVR shape hasn't changed a great deal during the production run, so with the addition of my private plate it's ageless, with the 911 I think I would be forever wishing I had a newer one, anyone had any experiance with Honda NSX's? I'm open to any sugestions on suitable replacements (everyday driver), must be quick, fun, and different.

Dom loves his NSXs and I have to admit I think they're pretty good looking - certainly the only Jap car I would consider.

I'm not going to have that problem with a 993, because (adopting flame proof suit and treading carefully here) we have two 996s in the company car park, and they just don't do anything for me. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course but mine is that the 996 is probably a better car than the 993 in many ways, but it is visually uninspiring.

I agree with steve below. There is no way you'd find me in a 996. In fact, in some ways I prefer my classic 964 'upright headlight' shape to the 993. That is not to say it is a better car - the 993 is miles better in many ways. But it's just a tad more dull - like the school swot. The 996 in many ways is more sports tourer than sports car. Generally speaking, the newer the porsche, the less exciting to drive it has become, simply because of huge leaps forward in refinement and technology. EVO rated a 1977 2.7 RS ahead of a 2002 996 Twin Turbo as a 'driver's car', for example. That's why you won't find me hankering for a newer one than my 1991 model! Re the NSXs, I used to like them and quite admire them. But just too japanese and not enough character, despite lovely exhaust note. Not classy enough somehow. Interior is v boring, but I could see myself in that new Type-R perhaps. >> Edited by domster on Tuesday 6th August 13:03

Thanks for the welcome Domster. It seems the newer (or more hi-tec) the car the faster you have to go for the fun to start so there is less room to find your own limits (or maybe I am a crap driver?). All a bit theoretical anyway - can't afford a 993 or a 996

Agree with GreGC At one pint we had 3 TVRs, 1996 Griff500, 1977 Modified Taimar and 1967 Vixen S1 and the best fun to drive Vixen S1, those narrow little tyres and near perfect weight balance and a 7Ft 1" wheelbase, it just drifted everywhere. Also had a higher tech 1998 Impreza Turbo (Prodrive Suspension) and on a clean road surface the limits of the car were in your head, only got it out of shape twice both times on a circuit and both times on corner exit kerbs. Would also do unmentionable speeds in the pouring rain, of course if an accident should happen it will be a big one!!! davidy

Yup, a 996TT driven by someone's mum would nail me from A-B in most conditions, I'm sure. But I may have more fun trying to keep up or not get overtaken. You need to be a very good driver to get the best from an RS, they are tricky little buggers in the wet for a start. The faster and harder you drive them, the better they get. You don't reach the bottom of their talent in one sitting, like you do an E36 M3. In my Lotus Carlton it just wasn't that exciting doing 120mph after a while - the adrenalin kicked in at 140, but just look out of the window of your next Easyjet flight take-off for that sensation. I don't want to risk offending anyone, as I whitter on about my RS far too much anyway, and I have already done the 928 a bit of a disservice. But I love all Porsches to some degree, just some more than others. Personal preference and all that. The 996 is a better car, but maybe not a better driver's porsche to some.

I think these things all depend on what you want out of them at the end of the day and even then to the extreme you want to take it. 1. Domster loves drivers cars, and by that I mean REAL drivers cars, he doesn't care what they look like (to some extent) as that's for pansies but really cares how they handle. That's one extreme. 2. The other extreme is people who don't drive aggressively enough to demand a 'drivers' car but still appreciate the mark/looks (like my Dad who drives a 944 cab, loves it to bits with his silver hair flowing in the wind but never takes it fast enough to risk getting a fly in the eye). What looks you prefer come hand in hand usually with the type of car you like. Now for Dom and me the lower/more spoliers/bigger wheels etc the better. Dom will prefer the looks of his 964RS to a 'standard' late model as although older, it looks much more aggressive. Compared to a 993RS/GT2 and he'd think hard about it but next to a standard 996 there'd be no competition. Neither opinion is wrong, just different.

Domster - You are correct that the 928 is a more sophisticated car than the traditional 911, hence if the unexpected did happen, you would have an expensive experience. On the topic of Aston's, does anyone here have any experience of the 'Virage' model series, and if so, can you shed any light on why they are relatively cheap for such a car (ie. any major problems with them?) raceboy - Have you tried an XJR? As fast as the NSX, and the way they depreciate, they can be just as cheap.

I'm 29 not 59 Really only need 2 seats at a push 2+2, gets me out of giving tedious familly members lifts anywhere I could live with the looks of a 968 preferably CS spec, any views on them, can you make the thing sound meaty with the addition of sports exhaust etc?

968CS is probably the best value Porsche you can buy £ for £. You can pick them up (LHD) for about £10k or about £13k for RHD. Make sure you get the Club Sport version as it's really a great car. Not 'overly' fast but the handling is something else and you get the 'newer' Porsche feel with the newer shape dash, lovely buckets and the 993 style front end. That engine is not over exciting but I'm sure it's nothing that can't be fixed with an angle grinder, a baked bean can and some gaffer tape!! I was thinking at the weekend about freeing up some cash (potential new house etc) and the first thing was obviously the car and a 968CS was top of my 'budget' list. In yellow, MO30 big red brake and suspension pack - great fun and always gets a reasonably high level of respect.

Yes, the 968CS with MO30 pack (includes Limited Slip Diff as well I think) is a fantastic car - but values are hardening for RHD examples as they are quite rare in the best colours (Maritime Blue, Speed Yellow). You may pay up to 18k for one. LHD is better value, I've seen Club Sports as low as 8.5k in Germany. You could go for a CS in another colour or without MO30 and still have fun, but always aim for the ultimate spec, even if hard to find. The red brakes and cross drilled brakes of the MO30 pack will have you staring at your wheels for days! Alternatively consider a RHD 'Sport' model, which was less extreme than the CS, with noncey armchairs instead of buckets, but with the lowered suspension etc. They have electric windows etc and are a better day to day proposition, without the massive premium of the cult RHD MO30 Club Sport cars. Cheers Domster

There's a lovely looking maritine Blue one with 60k miles in Germany for £8,500 - Bargain!!

Bugger that, even better - There's a genuine 11,500 mile 968 Turbo for sale for £16,500. That's got 300bhp, upgraded everything and to make it even more special you can rest in the knowledge that they only made about 20 of them. Domster, wanna go buy it with me, small investment each?

I was JUST about to get the 968CS from the guys in Chiswick - yellow, yellow wheels, yellow seat backs. sport pack, (had a lovely looking RSR (?) splitter on the front) which I haven't seen on other cars - no sunroof, no elec windows, nothing - the way the car ought to be. RHD, 50K on the clock ..... £21000...... about 18 months ago..... I had to walk away, that's too much.

I'm fairly sure they made a SUPER 968 Turbo RSR too...

It won't be a genuine one for that money, I bet you a bottle of beer. The factory 968 Turbo S cars had 320bhp and only about 13 were made. They also did the Turbo RS model for racing. If it was original I would be tempted to go in with you on the deal Cheers Domster

Dom - I thought it was too cheap too but it says original? (and actualy says 'over' 300 bhp) Still, UV could sort us out some classy laydeez for that sort of dosh, not sure where I'd have more fun?

Click here for a proper Turbo S: www.968.net/images/968_Turbo_S_1.jpg BTW - this is a great website that I used a lot when I was thinking of going down the 968CS route.

Scottster, you need to brush up on your german you little monkey! It says 'original umbau' which means a replica using (some) original parts. The key word is 'umbau', it crops up a lot. Normally when people start putting F40 bodykits on TR7s. To think you used to have german lessons as well

Yes, isn't it. Probably at Blackpool several years ago, maybe one of the Manias. I seem to recall one occasion when you were Oxford RO, and you and I were the only people at one of your monthly meetings too!

http://babelfish.altavista.com is quite a handy tool for those 'foreign language' moments. The results are normally either very good or just amusing.

Porsche 911 Carrera (993) or TVR Cerbera (4.2 or 4.5)? Thats what I've whittled my new car choice down to. I've owned a TVR before (a 4.0 Chimaera) and loved it, although I did find it in the garage quite often having minor things done to it. However that had to go to help fund a house purchase. Now I'm back for a new motor, but not sure which of the above two to go for. The car is going to proably be used every day and I need some advice on what you guys think in respect of which to go for, all things considered, ie. daily use, running costs, servicing and work, reliabilty etc... Anyone?