Porsche 991 PDK Failure - New Gearbox Required - Page 3 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Hi All, I'm looking for some advice, I have a 2012 911 Carerra. Recently I had an error message appear on the on board computer, 'Gearbox fault, Poss no R gear, Drive on poss. I got the car transported to the nearest Porsche dealer and the results of their diagnosis after checking the wiring system was below, The fault with the gearbox are the distant sensors, these are situated within the gearbox and they 'talk' to the gearbox control unit to determine which gear the vehicle is in. As the gearbox is a sealed unit & it is an internal sensor fault within the gearbox, these parts are not serviceable. Therefore it requires a new complete unit. The quote has come in at £7,418.17. Obviously I was not impressed as the warranty only ran out at the end of March. I made contact straight away, the service manager soon stated they would contact Porsche GB and make a goodwill claim as the car has FPSH, I have previously owned other Porsches etc. less than hour later, they confirmed that would pay 50% towards the cost, leaving me to now pay £3709.08. This car was serviced at the same dealer in January this year and also had an 111 point check carried out. Basically, I do not want to pay a penny as I do not believe a 6 year old PDK gearbox should need replacing, especially as the apparent failure is a non serviceable sensor due to its location!! I understand the car is out of warranty and this will be Porsches main argument. Anyone been in a similar situation and have any advice how I should proceed? Thanks in advance.

I would take the offer. In a nutshell you gambled and lost but at least the extended warranty cost is in your pocket. There is and increasing trend for porsche to make major components non serviceable not only is it the case with pdk but manuals as well. The future will be dictated by whether the specialists can step in but they will need to solve the parts supply issue as well.

These folk popped up as a repair option last year on Pistonheads, no idea if they're any good but could be worth calling them and talking over the options. http://austrin-engineering.co.uk/

when you specing a new 911, having a PDK option only adds up £2,5k. So they are charging you £7,418.17 (nearly 3 times more), to replace it? Not sure really, what kind of rip-off is this but I would just accept the goodwill but also ask the complete quote break-down? Then probably sell the car.

ooid said: when you specing a new 911, having a PDK option only adds up £2,5k. So they are charging you £7,418.17 (nearly 3 times more), to replace it? Not sure really, what kind of rip-off is this but I would just accept the goodwill but also ask the complete quote break-down? Then probably sell the car. Flawed logic; the default option - of not having PDK - includes the cost of a manual 'box. Overhaul of gearboxes can easily rack up to £8k, the dealer's offer does not seem too bad IMHO, especially when one considers the alternative cost of having put the car through the 111 point check and buying the warranty.

to be that actually sounds reasonably cheap - would have expected a higher figure (around double that) if I had been asked before reading

Think I’d take the offer. Given another £1500 ish saving you had by not putting the warranty on it that’s quite reasonable for a new box. I’ve gambled with no warranty on my manual GTS for the last 4 years so am £5k up towards anything that goes wrong (which it hasn’t).

I'd push them for more, as nicely as you can. They offered 50% quickly so will probably offer more. I'm sure I read a similar thread on here about another 991 with a failed gearbox that was outside of warranty and was replaced with 100% of the cost being picked up by Porsche GB. Will have a look for it now. Edited to add: can't find it, hopefully someone else will recall it! I'm sure I've read a similar story on here before. Edited by mackay45 on Friday 29th June 14:35

Personally I would take the 50% offer. Not because I think its right, but because I think its the best your going to get. The gearbox should last way longer than that and stuff that can / will wear out should be serviceable. But the sad reality is different. Cars are getting way too complicated, remember the days when you could re-tune your car with a spanner and screwdriver ?

Sorry to hear this OP IMO, bite their hands off....you must have built up a lot of goodwill or they must really like you to make that offer but you gambled and lost I'm afraid.

c4sman said: Think I’d take the offer. Given another £1500 ish saving you had by not putting the warranty on it that’s quite reasonable for a new box. I’ve gambled with no warranty on my manual GTS for the last 4 years so am £5k up towards anything that goes wrong (which it hasn’t). Yet

A 6 year old gearbox in a modern car (probably with less than average mileage), shouldn't fail. I'm sure the PDK is marketed as 'for the life of the car'... It's not fit for purpose and I'm sure Porsche will cover the replacement if you push them. It's been properly serviced according to the manufacturer, so shouldn't fail in the first place. I reckon a court would back you if you went that route.

It’s a solid offer, and I don’t think anyone would blame you for taking it. If you have the means and tenacity though I agree it might be worth getting some legal advice vis à vis the gearbox’s fitness for purpose. Taking Porsche to court won’t be cheap of course, and there are no guarantees you’d win, but if there is precedent it’d be worth a try. Even just presenting the facts might be enough to pursuade Porsche to cough up.... Good luck.

Davey S2 said: Yet . If it does, I still have a the war chest, and I would prefer that that war chest is in my bank account rather than theirs! Not to mention that most things likely to go wrong are not necessarily as catastrophic or expensive as a major engine or gearbox failure. Not to hammer this point too much, 4 years into ownership I’m still not seriously considering selling and can see myself owning the car for many more years. The question then becomes, how many years do you keep going paying out for a warranty? Over say a 10 year ownership cycle would I really get all of that value back given that is only does a few thousand miles per year and is cherished and well maintained? On average, Porsche don’t think so which is how they set the warranty price. I am just hoping that for once, I am average. If I am not, then I lose my war chest.

Contact Porsche GB yourself and argue the box is supposed to last the life of the car. It's not wear and tear or the sensors would be accessible and serviceable. So it must be a manufacturing defect. When I threatened court action to PGB over my wheel finish their prior intransigence disappeared and they settled. Your statutory rights last 6 years from new so be careful using this threat. I would expect the final result to be 100% PGB pay out for the box if you're persistent, logical and polite.

I think it’s a reasonable offer. If you want to push harder I’d look into using the Motor Ombudsman https://www.smmt.co.uk/about/consumer-advice/ Mate of mine did when we was having problems on an Audi A6 where he was getting no joy at all...once they were involved Audi settled pretty quickly.

smith5284 said: Hi All, I'm looking for some advice, I have a 2012 911 Carerra . Recently I had an error message appear on the on board computer, 'Gearbox fault, Poss no R gear, Drive on poss. I got the car transported to the nearest Porsche dealer and the results of their diagnosis after checking the wiring system was below, Thanks in advance. Hi I have been experiencing the same fault on my own 2012 911 Carrera S for over six months and reported it whilst the car was still under warranty. Today the fault is still not diagnosed and I have been back and forth between two Porsche centres paying for diagnosis, new battery, more diagnosis, log clear downs ...etc...etc. I have spent more time on the sides of motorways waiting for recovery than I have driven the car since June of last year and have paid good monies to Porsche without remedy. For information the car has done c £20K miles. My expectation is that your outcome on requiring a new gearbox will more than likely be my outcome. This is unacceptable on a premium brand with only 20K on the clock, and would as one party commented point to a manufacturing fault or design fault. Once, I have determination on my own position I will revert, however, in the interim I will also seek further input from external parties

OP, you haven't mentioned the mileage.

If you can't afford 7k on a gearbox then keep the warranty on. Hopefully lesson learned. Outs a brace man that has a 911 with no warranty as you have found out. They are not infallible and are always expensive when they break. They have made a very good offer there March is 9 months out of an extended warranty. That very good service imho.

Just before Christmas, I had exactly the same warning message appear on my 991 GT3; Gear change was very abrupt, and was actually missing out some gears going up and down the box! - couldn't even select all the gears on the paddles Recovered into OPC (I have a warranty...) Delivered back following day with the response: Fault was due to gear box oil level, and a sensor misreporting the oil level. Re-programmed the PDK sensors & added a small amount of GB oil. Worth mentioning that the week previous it had been into OPC for a full service & 1st GB oil change. And a warranty renewal...

Christ is there anything well made in a Porsche? Engines , gearboxes, gaskets.. Great cars though.........

If it was the mechanicals that had failed, I could see Porsche quite rightly arguing that the gearbox must have been badly treated, but a sensor? FFS! It’s not as if an owner could drive the car differently to make it last longer is it? So a £70 part causes £7k of unit replacement? Yep, I’d be pushing for for Porsche coughing up for the lot, and crossing my fingers. Edited by Tony1963 on Tuesday 8th January 23:06

How do you treat a PDK box badly? I agree though, Porsche should cover the cost...

OP dodged mileage question still. What mileage is acceptable? 80k? 50k? If it's got 10k I would say it would be something Porsche might want to sort but 120k on a 7 year old car..? My guess is it's somewhere in between and they have made a very reasonable offer. The level of entitlement is frightening for us dealers!

fridaypassion said: OP dodged mileage question still. What mileage is acceptable? 80k? 50k? If it's got 10k I would say it would be something Porsche might want to sort but 120k on a 7 year old car..? My guess is it's somewhere in between and they have made a very reasonable offer. The level of entitlement is frightening for us dealers! Thread started last June, so I suspect the OP isn't following anymore. Would be good to know how it ended up.

Good afternoon I am in the exact same position. My car is a 911 S 991 on a 12 plate. Where did you end up with Porsche GB?

rod sparks said: Good afternoon I am in the exact same position. My car is a 911 S 991 on a 12 plate. Where did you end up with Porsche GB? Sorry to hear that. Mileage?

Hi there - i have exactly the same problem with my 991.1 C2s: started showing the fault with "poss no R gear" & then wouldn't go into reverse & then gearbox went into limp mode stuck in 4th. Porsche Guildford now telling me it has a "control rod failure" or sth and that the PDK gearbox can't be worked on and needs to be replaced in entirety at my cost. Did anyone ever get any come back from Porsche GB on this issue? My car is 7 years old and has done less than 44k mainly motorway miles with FPSH and never tracked etc etc.

Someone posted a guide to repairing PDK on rennlist the other day. Search for “ Guide to Repairing a PDK Transmission” and it should be the first result. It might be of help to some people

Is nobody bothering to keep the warranty going?

The cost of a new gearbox on a McLaren MP412c or 650S is £18k ... unless Thorney Motorsport can rebuild it. A 50% contribution fromPorsche may be very fair ?

I don't see why Porsche should do anything, this is what the warranty is for. Unfortunately the OP needs to stump up and put it down to bad luck.

NBTBRV8 said: I don't see why Porsche should do anything, this is what the warranty is for. Unfortunately the OP needs to stump up and put it down to bad luck. Ultimately it's a machine and machines can (and do) go wrong, (whoever makes them) and that's what the warranty is for. If you buy a Miele washing machine it is supposed to last 20-years, but they still offer an extended warranty after the initial warranty runs out. If you decide to take it up the extended warranty that's your choice, but in my opinion the £1000 odd cost per year for the Porsche warranty is a no brainer as that is usually the minimum cost of just about anything failing on a 911. Don't take up the warranty on any machine and that's the gamble you take. Some you win and some you lose.

The fact that at least 3 people on this thread have chipped in reporting the same problem says quite a bit. I'd fight it. Contact the other 3 people on here and get your lawyer to write to Porsche on their behalf. This can't be anyway acceptable. You've bought a premium car and you should expect high quality components and service. There are many parts on Porsche's (and other manufacturers) new cars that aren't servicable, according to them. This is a joke. Good luck.

sr.guiri said: The fact that at least 3 people on this thread have chipped in reporting the same problem says quite a bit. I'd fight it. Contact the other 3 people on here and get your lawyer to write to Porsche on their behalf. This can't be anyway acceptable. You've bought a premium car and you should expect high quality components and service. There are many parts on Porsche's (and other manufacturers) new cars that aren't servicable, according to them. This is a joke. Good luck. As has been pointed out above...Porsche offer one of the best warranties you can get for £1000 a year. As these owners have found out it’s an expensive gamble. If it’s available you’re mad given the parts and layout costs not taking it out. It seems like madness that these gearboxes are a replacement item but there must be a good reason for it as obviously in most cases Porsche would be wearing the repair/replacement bill.

I would have expected a new PDK gearbox, supplied and fitted by an OPC to have been quite a bit more than £7k. 50% contribution is good news and you’ve saved the cost of extending the warranty so all in all not that expensive?

Unfortunately this is a consequence of modern modular manufacturing techniques. At every level it is becoming more cost effective to have the original manufacturer repair ...hence assemblies are exchanged. 1. Failures are not the rule 2. Warranties are purely an insurance, not a guarantee of reliability 3. The assembly manufacturer is best place to repair these assemblies and they learn directly from this .. improving reliability in future iterations 4. There will always be winners and losers ... 5. Does anybody really want to poison their life trying to push oil uphill ? 6. Insurance levels the winners and losers playing field ... everybody makes their own choices ... but isn't it unfair to criticise others for the choices one makes for one-self ? I have no axe to grind ... I was a loser to McLaren, from Porsche in my World, this feels very fair. Edited by ChrisW. on Sunday 22 December 19:00

There is nothing reasonable about that offer. Nothing whatsoever. It’s the usual Porsche pl55take. It’s a classic case of their system losing all sight of anything remotely close to a realistic outcome. £3700 for you sir because our engineers put a sensor in the wrong place...

I agree with much of the above, and consider it a fair offer. These are complex mechanical machines, and the 3 Years Factory Warranty and the option to extend this, subject to their terms, provides a pretty high degree of security. Some 'goodwill' might be expected, if bought and maintained through the Network. But, if a customer doesn't insure through the Extended Warranty, then they cannot expect the same level of benefit in the event of a claim.

The OP posted 18 months ago and now seems to have a Ferrari.

Continuing on this thread - Batman, ETC! - my 991.1 with (thank god) OPC warranty had the same fault the other day. Towed to OPC, it seems it could be the distance sensors ETC. Likely needs a new gearbox. These failures aren't that common, but they do happen. A cautionary tale for those who think about running these cars without a warranty. If so, buy a manual.

I know its an old thread but a friend had this happen on his 992 gt3 touring, thankfully covered by warranty!

As time has gone on these are becoming repairable by specialists. The distance sensor has now been reproduced and costs less than £2k + fitting. It's still a wedge but not as bad of having to pay for a new gearbox from OPC. Pity the cost of a new gearbox is not the same as it was in 2018 when this thread started! Car forums are good at reporting failures, but in real terms the percentage of PDK failures is probably quite small. If you're risk averse buy the warranty.

cayman-black said: Christ is there anything well made in a Porsche? I believe ZF make the PDK boxes. Porsche just buy them in.

All cars have failures. I had a new manual gearbox under warranty on a 996 GT2 back in 2004.

stuckmojo said: A cautionary tale for those who think about running these cars without a warranty. If so, buy a manual. Good advice.