What's this 911? - Page 2 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

I recently did a "supercar experience day". I wasn't impressed by the "experience" but liked this 911 that I tried. I've fancied a 911 since I was a boy many years ago but have never actually driven one. I liked this one to the extent that I'm now contemplating buying one. It was well balanced, a nice amount of power without being stupid and just felt well made. It wasn't too blingy and just a nice place to be. I've no clue on all the 911 models but I liked this one. Any idea what it was and roughly what age?

It’s a 997, I think gen 1 so 2004-2008 but if gen2 which is better 2008-2012

997.2

Nuttcase said: 997.2 2009 -2012 Not clear whether it's a 2wd or 4wd (I'm guessing 2)

maz8062 said: 2009 -2012 Not clear whether it's a 2wd or 4wd (I'm guessing 2) Gen 2 was released spring 2008 early cars arriving summer/autumn 2008 although 2009 model years. OP the car you drove most likely would not have been standard ie felted suspension (looks lower than standard) and my guess is its the 3.6 and not 3.8S

What didn't you like about the experience day then?

Hoofy said: What didn't you like about the experience day then? The instructors gave me absolutely no leeway with driving the car, told me when to accelerate, when to change gear, when and how hard to brake, exactly what line to take, they even had the mirrors set for the instructors and not the driver. This for me was going too far, it didn't feel right not using the mirrors. I tried to explain that I wasn't interested in finding the fastest lines etc, just wanted to get a feel for the car and the way it handled. I understand that they need to consider safety first and that they don't know all the different drivers' skill levels but they seemed to be doing their very best to remove all levels of control from us and by doing that it hugely detracted from the experience. It was no longer a driving experience, more a follow instructions to the letter and don't dare try to enjoy it experience.

GT4P said: maz8062 said: 2009 -2012 Not clear whether it's a 2wd or 4wd (I'm guessing 2) Gen 2 was released spring 2008 early cars arriving summer/autumn 2008 although 2009 model years. OP the car you drove most likely would not have been standard ie felted suspension (looks lower than standard) and my guess is its the 3.6 and not 3.8S Gen 2 is better than Gen 1 - in what way exactly?

Desiderata said: Hoofy said: What didn't you like about the experience day then? The instructors gave me absolutely no leeway with driving the car, told me when to accelerate, when to change gear, when and how hard to brake, exactly what line to take, they even had the mirrors set for the instructors and not the driver. This for me was going too far, it didn't feel right not using the mirrors. I tried to explain that I wasn't interested in finding the fastest lines etc, just wanted to get a feel for the car and the way it handled. I understand that they need to consider safety first and that they don't know all the different drivers' skill levels but they seemed to be doing their very best to remove all levels of control from us and by doing that it hugely detracted from the experience. It was no longer a driving experience, more a follow instructions to the letter and don't dare try to enjoy it experience. Ahhh, this isn't the first time I've heard of such experiences ('scuse the pun) and why I have yet to book on one. Probably feel like you get more VFM if you just pay for a cheap passenger ride and the instructor rags the car round the track!

Thanks everyone. I'm encouraged. It looks like I can have one myself for anything from £20k to £50k, depending on age/mileage/exact model. It would be a wee retiral treat for special trips and I'd hope to pamper it and keep it for the rest of my driving life (probably another 20 years or so), so now to start looking for the best example I can find.

An exciting journey lays ahead, go and speak with a reputable specialist and try a few out. Decide if your dream is a 'classic' or 'modern' and enjoy. Just keep a few thousand aside to keep on top of it. In fairness to 'Experience Days' the instructors do not have an enviable job. I assume they are all ARDS instructors doing experience days for a little extra cash to pay the mortgage. I also assume they aren't the best paid gigs and the cars live a hard life. Then in jumps a punter and you don't know their mindset, experience or ability. If I were the instructor I'd just want to get out of the car... If you were to work with the same instructor directly in your own car you would have a very different experience. A driver coach has been one of my better spends.

maz8062 said: Gen 2 is better than Gen 1 - in what way exactly? Engine for a start ( not of the chocolate engine era 1996-2008 bar turbo/GT3) I have owned 986.2 (IMS failed at 13k and needed new engine) 987.1 and 987.2 and 981 all from new and the 987.2 was the sweetest not a 911 but same engine/ build. So I would only buy a 997.2 of that era Edited by GT4P on Tuesday 8th April 12:12

WombleCate said: An exciting journey lays ahead, go and speak with a reputable specialist and try a few out. Decide if your dream is a 'classic' or 'modern' and enjoy. Just keep a few thousand aside to keep on top of it. In fairness to 'Experience Days' the instructors do not have an enviable job. I assume they are all ARDS instructors doing experience days for a little extra cash to pay the mortgage. I also assume they aren't the best paid gigs and the cars live a hard life. Then in jumps a punter and you don't know their mindset, experience or ability. If I were the instructor I'd just want to get out of the car... If you were to work with the same instructor directly in your own car you would have a very different experience. A driver coach has been one of my better spends. As a punter , the more you can show the instructor you are sensible , the more they will let you drive. Ive had a couple of great experience days , when the instructor was rewlly getting me to push on in a 911 turbo

OP, the 997.2 is one of the good places on the 911 evolutionary journey. Don't underestimate the base 3.6 Carrera: the engine is a peach. The next generation, the 991, provides more modernity, especially in terms of interior, though the 991.2 that has decent nav etc (and turbo engines for all regular models).

GT4P said: Engine for a start ( not of the chocolate engine era 1996-2008 bar turbo/GT3) I have owned 986.2 (IMS failed at 13k and needed new engine) 987.1 and 987.2 and 981 all from new and the 987.2 was the sweetest not a 911 but same engine/ build. So I would only buy a 997.2 of that era Edited by GT4P on Tuesday 8th April 12:12 So you’ve never owned or driven a 997 of any description but you know which one is better. Ok Edited by maz8062 on Tuesday 8th April 12:34

maz8062 said: So you’ve never owned or driven a 997 of any description but you know which one is better. Ok Edited by maz8062 on Tuesday 8th April 12:34 He's right about the engines though.

Maxym said: OP, the 997.2 is one of the good places on the 911 evolutionary journey. Don't underestimate the base 3.6 Carrera: the engine is a peach. The next generation, the 991, provides more modernity, especially in terms of interior, though the 991.2 that has decent nav etc (and turbo engines for all regular models). Thanks, I think I'll start by looking at 997.2s. I'm not fussed on modernity, sat nav etc and turbos, I think an NA 3.6 would be absolutely fine.

maz8062 said: Gen 2 is better than Gen 1 - in what way exactly? My ex and I had a 997.1 then 997.2 and fianlly 991.1 911. The 997.2 was a nicer place to sit than the 997.1 and sounded better (both had PSE). When the 997.1 was traded there were also signs of some of the classic engine issues. The 997.2 also felt the better made of the two and is to my eye the better looking. It also had a much better infotainment setup - while very dated by todays standards, I could do more with the .2 unit, such as play music on it from my phone. Don't get me wrong, we liked both, but the gen 2 was the better car.

maz8062 said: So you’ve never owned or driven a 997 of any description but you know which one is better. Ok Edited by maz8062 on Tuesday 8th April 12:34 Actually I have driven 996, 997.1 997.2 and 992.1 GTs which can’t say I was thrilled with, but never owned a 911. But from 9x6.1 to 9x1.1 are shared platforms and parts

maz8062 said: So you’ve never owned or driven a 997 of any description but you know which one is better. Ok Edited by maz8062 on Tuesday 8th April 12:34 He's right about the engines though.

PaulD86 said: The 997.2 was a nicer place to sit than the 997.1 and sounded better (both had PSE). I beg to differ regarding the sound! The 997.1 sounds rawer than the DFI .2 ime. Also the .2 only differs in the infotainment system an the HVAC from the earlier cars. I prefer the front from the 997.2 and the back from the 997.1. Yes, the later cars are more refined and peak 997 would be a manual GTS 2, but I‘m happy with my very early 997.1 thats what I have and I enjoy

To the OP, have a good look around and try as many as you can before making a decision. I’ve had a couple of 997.1’s and still own a base 3.6 gen 1. If buying again today, I’d only buy a .1 with an engine rebuild, preferably a Hartech rebuilt car. I’d look at a 3.8S manual and leave it at that. In my opinion, just my option, a rebuilt car is the safest and cost effective option when buying these cars. The .2 and .1 cars look the same, will drive the same on the street and cost the same to run. The .2’s cost more to buy and still run the risk of engine failure, PDK problems etc. Your cash your choice.

Filibuster said: PaulD86 said: The 997.2 was a nicer place to sit than the 997.1 and sounded better (both had PSE). I beg to differ regarding the sound! The 997.1 sounds rawer than the DFI .2 ime. Also the .2 only differs in the infotainment system an the HVAC from the earlier cars. I prefer the front from the 997.2 and the back from the 997.1. Yes, the later cars are more refined and peak 997 would be a manual GTS 2, but I‘m happy with my very early 997.1 thats what I have and I enjoy I agree with you the .2 is quieter even with a PSE, the .1 sounds a lot better.

The 997.2 has a significantly lower risk of any engine issues (as compared to the .1) and PDK transmission issues are rare. The 997.1 cars sound slightly better, for sure, but I agree, I would only buy one with a Hartech engine rebuild. For looks, practicality and value for money - 997.2 C4S PDK is hard to beat. maz8062 said: To the OP, have a good look around and try as many as you can before making a decision. I’ve had a couple of 997.1’s and still own a base 3.6 gen 1. If buying again today, I’d only buy a .1 with an engine rebuild, preferably a Hartech rebuilt car. I’d look at a 3.8S manual and leave it at that. In my opinion, just my option, a rebuilt car is the safest and cost effective option when buying these cars. The .2 and .1 cars look the same, will drive the same on the street and cost the same to run. The .2’s cost more to buy and still run the risk of engine failure, PDK problems etc. Your cash your choice.

Filibuster said: I beg to differ regarding the sound! The 997.1 sounds rawer than the DFI .2 ime. Also the .2 only differs in the infotainment system an the HVAC from the earlier cars. I prefer the front from the 997.2 and the back from the 997.1. Yes, the later cars are more refined and peak 997 would be a manual GTS 2, but I‘m happy with my very early 997.1 thats what I have and I enjoy I prefer the 997.1 too. Suffice to say that I have been lucky to own quite a few 911s and the 997.1 is still here 16 years later (albeit with a 4.1 conversion from Hartech). It's a rawer 911 experience, and if you can find a car that has had a full Hartech rebuild, probably the sweet spot performance and price wise. And, as pointed out above, don't dismiss the base engine - such a smooth unit.

I can only echo what others have said regarding the base engine. The 3.6 is a super smooth engine and imho fast enough for a 997. Sure, 325 hp doesn‘t sound like much these days, but it‘s just the right amount to enjoy these cars on public roads

Seem to remember the 3.6 997.1 is less prone to failures.

Cosmetically very similar, maybe rear lights on .1 are more “classic” I’ve driven the .1 (997S), it’s fantastic, very raw feeling. I had a 996 at the time and it felt like a huge step up. Not driven the .2 but been a passenger in it, felt slightly more refined, didn’t sound as good but no doubt quicker. Both cars had PSE. I have a 991.2 it is faster still but feels less “Porsche” if that makes sense? I’d go for the best 997.2 you can find. The GTS are lovely but well over 50k now. The C4/C4s with the light bar look amazing.

Think the car in the OP is a c2 as I think I can make out a black brake caliper. Everyone has a different favourite 911. For me they started getting a bit too civilised and Audi like by the 991. I didn't like the early epas and I've seen too many posts about turbo issues on the 991.2s. I prefer the 997.1 to the 997.2 purely based on the character of the engine. However, I wouldn't touch a 997.1 that didn't have a rebuild with new pistons and liners. A friend recently sold his rebuilt 997.1 for only £16k which to me is a much better prospect than a £30k+ 997.2. I also think it's worth looking at 3.4 996.1s. Very similar to 997.1 but cheaper and bore scoring is extremely rare. They do have other issues but the probability is massively exaggerated by people who have never owned one or spent much time in the owner groups. I owned one for 7 years with zero issues.

GT4P said: Seem to remember the 3.6 997.1 is less prone to failures. I've owned both a 3.6 and 3.8 Gen 1. The 3.6 is a better engine for the street, in my view; it likes to rev, and in coupe manual form, it is very agile, pointy, and fun to drive. The 3.8 is faster for sure, but it lacks character, and the additional torque is not a plus; it just means that you get where you're going faster and with fewer revs. I imagine that on the track, the 3.8 will be a lot of fun, and the .2 GTS more so. That said, the 3.8 has better brakes, better kit like the seats, steering wheel, 19" wheels, PASM. On balance, I think it is the one to have. The .2 3.6 runs 345 bhp, so only 5 down from the .1 3.8S. Perhaps that's the sweet spot, but they're not cheap.

nunpuncher said: I also think it's worth looking at 3.4 996.1s. Very similar to 997.1 but cheaper and bore scoring is extremely rare. They do have other issues but the probability is massively exaggerated by people who have never owned one or spent much time in the owner groups. I owned one for 7 years with zero issues. I agree, however, I do have a 996.1 C2. They are all wonderful, and which one is down to personal taste. I think it's down to whether you aspire to drive a 'classic' or a 'modern', to have three pedals or two. I think the lines of a 996.1 and analogueness are awesome, however, the 997 may be peak 911. If you only want two pedals it might need to be a 997.2 CS. I hope there's never a day that I need only two pedals, however, I was amazed how the PDK in a 997.2 C2S performed on track.

Desiderata said: I recently did a "supercar experience day". I wasn't impressed by the "experience" but liked this 911 that I tried. I've fancied a 911 since I was a boy many years ago but have never actually driven one. I liked this one to the extent that I'm now contemplating buying one. It was well balanced, a nice amount of power without being stupid and just felt well made. It wasn't too blingy and just a nice place to be. I've no clue on all the 911 models but I liked this one. Any idea what it was and roughly what age? This might be a bit geeky but I reckon that wing mirror is a Gen 2 and given it doesn't have headlight washers I'd say it's a 3.6.

For more geek points. It's definitely a .2. the most obvious giveaway at first glance is the front bumper. The indicators are a different shape between .1 and .2 And the reason it doesn't have headlight washers is because it has halogens rather than the optional litronics which always came with washers. Minus 1 geek point to me as I'm not sure if you could option washers on their own on the 997 as you could on 996.

nunpuncher said: For more geek points. It's definitely a .2. the most obvious giveaway at first glance is the front bumper. The indicators are a different shape between .1 and .2 And the reason it doesn't have headlight washers is because it has halogens rather than the optional litronics which always came with washers. Minus 1 geek point to me as I'm not sure if you could option washers on their own on the 997 as you could on 996. I like geek points :-) I couldn't see the difference in the bumper due to the pic being dark. BUT I didn't know about the indicator shape!!!! I must investigate. It seems that very few 3.6 cars have litronics optioned. I know the wing mirrors are larger in the .2, not that you can tell from pics, and my .2,which is red, has a black bottom on each wing mirror.

Door mirrors!

some impressive bearding on here !

nunpuncher said: For more geek points. The indicators are a different shape between .1 and .2 I can't beleive I didn't spot the indicators, very different!