Is a bore scored 997.1 a terrible idea? - Page 2 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

There's a high mileage 997.1 with probably bore scoring on ebay. It's well with in budget and potentially send the engine off to hartech for a rebuild. Is this a terrible ruinous idea?

Can see any F'd ones below 10k on ebay, so cant see it worth the grief and expense. Wait for a rebuild one to come up forsale? And definitely swerve that £11k Cat C with the score IMO, £11k + min £15k hartec rebuild = a 20k car tops. The maths dont work.

Ha! we are looking at the same one. It does seem unbelievable good value! I like the tan interior and would be happy to some of the work, but it does sound like an entire engine rebuild is neeeded.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/286463546105?itmmeta=01...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/286463546105?itmmeta=01...

My only concern then - ignoring the fact that you will take a hit come resell time, it's still a Cat C so what's a Cat C car with a rebuilt engine worth?

Valid question it is really becoming the porsche of theseus! It probably has too many questions to make it a good idea....

I wouldn't do it to a Cat C. But as a project to build a keeper? Yes. But put a 4.1 in it

Discombobulate said: I wouldn't do it to a Cat C. But as a project to build a keeper? Yes. But put a 4.1 in it I think that's a valid way of doing it. If you only hold the car for 1-2 years, you're going to take a hit. Maybe you'll get £15k for it if the market conditions worsen. That means you're taking a 10k hit for 12-24 months. However, if you hold it for 10 years and have a lot of fun with it, and then sell it for £15k, that's not so bad. Sure, you'll have chucked more money to keep it on the road eg suspension refresh, new brakes, but you'd have done that with a similar car that isn't a Cat C or suffering from bore score, and you might only get £20k for that car. Or it starts to develop bore score so you're selling it for low teens anyway. It's all guessing, of course, but that's one possible scenario. Every now and then I see a DB9 come onto the market with the V12 tick and when you see it up for £12k, it starts to make me ponder. You could end up with a decent car for £32k and probably sell it for mid-to-high £20s with a rebuilt engine which would be a pretty good deal for those in the know.

Great way to get started on an LS swap https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqgvkZM76LA

Hoofy said: My only concern then - ignoring the fact that you will take a hit come resell time, it's still a Cat C so what's a Cat C car with a rebuilt engine worth? My main concern is that the seller didn't go to school the day they did writing. Which is rarely a good sign. But at £10k, and let's assume that is what it can be bought for, you're kind of into project territory aren't you? It's never going to be worth a fortune, so if it can be established that it stands up nice and straight I wonder whether Cat C matters. If it drives pissed, like a crab on Special Brew, then it's to be swerved,

Zio Di Roma said: Hoofy said: My only concern then - ignoring the fact that you will take a hit come resell time, it's still a Cat C so what's a Cat C car with a rebuilt engine worth? My main concern is that the seller didn't go to school the day they did writing. Which is rarely a good sign. But at £10k, and let's assume that is what it can be bought for, you're kind of into project territory aren't you? It's never going to be worth a fortune, so if it can be established that it stands up nice and straight I wonder whether Cat C matters. If it drives pissed, like a crab on Special Brew, then it's to be swerved, Yes, according to the sales info, the Cat C is fine. My issue would be the fact that it's Cat C when you sell it, no matter how perfec the car is. As above, I think holding the car for a whie means taking the hit is less of an issue, in my mind at least.

It looks like a tatty mess, leather all hard and shiny, switchgear all worn out, then on top of that it is a Cat S. That £13k rebuild could easily become £17k on a car that is 20 years old with 133,000 miles on it when you do all the bits that you would want to do when the engine is out. Then when it is back what if it needs a new clutch or flywheel? New transmission mounts? New climate lines (at the age where they are starting to go)? Then you need to sort the interior out, if you have spent £30k at this point you would want that to be spot on, that could be another £2-3k to get the front seats refinished and the switchgear sorted. So you now have a car that cost you £33k, it has 140k miles on it at this point and is worth around £26k rebuilt, take off the 25-35% for it being a Cat car and even the best days are only ever going to see you get around £20k for it. Seriously, if you are thinking of spending some money buy one for £30k that has half the miles and has had all that done already. Even if it means taking out a bank loan for £15k, I would rather be paying a bit each month and have an asset that is appreciating than ploughing more money into a depreciating asset. If you can do the engine work yourself great. But if you are paying someone the £10k of labour, forget it imho.

FriedMarsBar said: it's all about the numbers, if it's high mileage car it's likely to need other parts replacing. Full new suspension 5K, coolant pipes 3K, discs and pads all round 1K, rebuild circa 15K. These cars can gobble up money quite quickly, especially you're picking. Coolant pipes 3k?!

No, don't do it. The CAT C is the problem. You could buy it for £10k, spend £15k and have a car that's worth £15k at best, after a £25k spend. If it wasn't ticking, you could drive it for a while and then decide but not with the ticking. You decide.

and31 said: Coolant pipes 3k?! I reckon more like 2K max for whole set if done while engine dropped for rebuild.

I cannot see any sense in buying it and spending "top top" money on a rebuild at Hartech. It will always be a cheap 911, being high mileage and a CAT C. If you must buy it, assuming it is suffering borescore, get only the cylinders affected re-sleeved (hopefully just cyl 6) and enjoy it for as little finanical outlay as possible. If you have £25-30k in your pocket today, which let's me honest is what you need if you're talking Hartech plus a few other repairs on this ebay car, I would buy one that has already been sorted instead, which is feasible at that price point.

... and then start posting on the shed thread? TBF I wouldn't be trying to make it perfect as even if you spend £50k on it and it's winning hill climbs and concours events, it's still a Cat C which will make it harder to shift.

FriedMarsBar said: it's all about the numbers, if it's high mileage car it's likely to need other parts replacing. Full new suspension 5K, coolant pipes 3K, discs and pads all round 1K, rebuild circa 15K. These cars can gobble up money quite quickly, especially you're picking. This, plus as others have pointed out it is Cat C and a bit tatty. Personally I would only buy one of these that had been rebuilt by Hartech with a full rebuild receipt. I would rather spend £27k on this https://911uk.com/porsche/997-1-c2s-hartech-rebuil...

There's a chap on YT that bought a bore scored £10k 996 - CAT N, and he's spending £15k on a GT3 RS body kit for it. By the time he’s done, with the engine rebuild as well, he’ll be into the car for circa £40k. madness. https://youtu.be/q_2OLORBSg4?si=zzViCX4OjEYiOOHd

I'd happily buy that if I was looking for a 911 (which I'm not) BUT....... I'm happy tinkering/rebuilding oily stuff and have a large spacious workshop and more importantly plenty of time. I'd drop the engine, strip it then get the block sleeved etc etc. If you pay someone to spanner your cars, and are time poor then forget it.

RustyNissanPrairie said: I'd happily buy that if I was looking for a 911 (which I'm not) BUT....... I'm happy tinkering/rebuilding oily stuff and have a large spacious workshop and more importantly plenty of time. I'd drop the engine, strip it then get the block sleeved etc etc. That is probably the best answer because then you have a £10k car plus parts costs, and probably enjoyed doing the work. Sadly, I'd have to pay someone.

and31 said: Coolant pipes 3k?! Yes, that'a what front to back and xovers cost to replace Edited by FriedMarsBar on Wednesday 23 April 10:40

RustyNissanPrairie said: I'd happily buy that if I was looking for a 911 (which I'm not) BUT....... I'm happy tinkering/rebuilding oily stuff and have a large spacious workshop and more importantly plenty of time. I'd drop the engine, strip it then get the block sleeved etc etc. If you pay someone to spanner your cars, and are time poor then forget it. I do a good bit of the work myself, and thats part of the attraction. I enjoy the oily bits, however I have yet to strip an engine biggest job I have done it replace an alternator, but part of the fun would be the journey of learning how to rebuild it! It might be a little more than I can mange though!

RustyNissanPrairie said: I'd happily buy that if I was looking for a 911 (which I'm not) BUT....... I'm happy tinkering/rebuilding oily stuff and have a large spacious workshop and more importantly plenty of time. I'd drop the engine, strip it then get the block sleeved etc etc. If you pay someone to spanner your cars, and are time poor then forget it. I do a good bit of the work myself, and thats part of the attraction. I enjoy the oily bits, however I have yet to strip an engine biggest job I have done it replace an alternator, but part of the fun would be the journey of learning how to rebuild it! It might be a little more than I can mange though!

Please don't take affront but changing an alternator is a million miles from stripping an engine down to bare block level and then rebuilding with new pistons/rings etc. Some serious measuring tools are needed on top of the usual tools. I'm running and tinkering with a similar age Cayenne - the factory workshop manual is available for mine so I'm sure a 911 manual would also be out there somewhere on the internet. It would be worth reading that first to see what's involved. Also don't underestimate the time scales involved in rebuilding stuff at home - doggo needing walkies, wifeys wanting the living room decorating, summer vacations, before you know it 2+ years have passed and you've missed two summers worth of blasting through Wales or the Lakes.

RustyNissanPrairie said: Also don't underestimate the time scales involved in rebuilding stuff at home - doggo needing walkies, wifeys wanting the living room decorating, summer vacations, before you know it 2+ years have passed and you've missed two summers worth of blasting through Wales or the Lakes. This was exactly my experience when I got involved with the mechanicals. I've never rebuilt an engine but I have stripped and replaced entire chassis and reinstalled new suspension, bushes, arms, brake lines, bearings, cambelts, waterpumps. dealt with rusted snapped nuts and stripped threads... it takes forever and life gets in the way. I ended up selling the cars once it was done as they were mint and worth good money, which would only depreciate once used. Plus I shared progress online and had people wanting to buy it so it was easy to get rid. I'm buying a Boxster 986S from a specialist this time around, hopefully picking up this weekend, that has had all the jobs done that are needed from IMS, bushes, clutch, coil packs, rads etc from day 1 so I can use and enjoy it rather than look at it in pieces in my garage.... well it might get to that stage one day but hopefully I will have bonded and driven the car by that point!

RustyNissanPrairie said: I'd happily buy that if I was looking for a 911 (which I'm not) BUT....... I'm happy tinkering/rebuilding oily stuff and have a large spacious workshop and more importantly plenty of time. I'd drop the engine, strip it then get the block sleeved etc etc. If you pay someone to spanner your cars, and are time poor then forget it. I think somebody who has "a large spacious workshop" and the required skills is somebody for whom a car that needs a rebuild makes sense. For pretty much everybody else I suspect buying one that has had the work done makes more sense. I have not looked at prices recently, but last time I checked the cars with a Hartech rebuild were not trading much higher than cars without one - so I suspect the cost of getting the rebuild done will not be recovered at sale. And then there is the time component / opportunity cost of the car being off the road for an extended period of time.

MDL111 said: I think somebody who has "a large spacious workshop" and the required skills is somebody for whom a car that needs a rebuild makes sense. For pretty much everybody else I suspect buying one that has had the work done makes more sense. I have not looked at prices recently, but last time I checked the cars with a Hartech rebuild were not trading much higher than cars without one - so I suspect the cost of getting the rebuild done will not be recovered at sale. And then there is the time component / opportunity cost of the car being off the road for an extended period of time. I agree the cost of a Hartech rebuild car is only marginally more expensive than non rebuilt cars, I only have anecdotal evidence from previous searches. If I were searching for a .1 I'd strongly prefer a rebuilt car unless I got a damaged one cheap enough. Edited by FriedMarsBar on Thursday 24th April 15:23

it's all about the numbers, if it's high mileage car it's likely to need other parts replacing. Full new suspension 5K, coolant pipes 3K, discs and pads all round 1K, rebuild circa 15K. These cars can gobble up money quite quickly, especially if you're picky. Edited by FriedMarsBar on Friday 25th April 00:02