911 handling explained for a newbie - Page 2 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Hello everyone first poster here! Quick intro is in order I suppose. Cars are my first love in life really...to the extent that I used to sit in the cars my dad used to buy and sell when I was a kid and eat my dinner in them while pretending to drive! haha. Currently, I'm doing an Msc in Economics, Finance and Management in the University of Bristol...and that's pretty much it for now I reckon! Anyway, I've kind of always had a love/hate relationship with the 911 due to its rear engined nature, although admittedly I will fully admit I have never driven one which is why I'm asking people who will have far more experience with the rear engined beast! Anyway this Youtube video (at around the 3:55 mark) kind of scared me about potentially owning a 911 in the future as it seems borderline uncontrollable with the PSM turned off in the wet!? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZv8-m4DfyU My question to any Porsche 911 people on here would be...was the presenter simply inexperienced, or is the 911 really THAT hairy in the wet? Thanks in advance as any advice would really help me make my car buying choices in the future!

I think you need to do a little more research, excuse the pun! The video is at the Porsche Experience Centre at Silverstone and the point at 3.55 is the kickplate. Before i go on, i have done the course so can tell you why "it looses control". The idea of the kickplate is to initiate a rear skid and teach you how to correct it. THe kickplate pit is a movable plate that as the rear wheels go over will "kick" left or right inducing the skid. The area is heavily drenched in running water along with a low friction surface induces the skid easily. The instructor will tell you to drive onto it around 20 mph for the first time as obviously as i driving God iam i knew i would be able to catch it.........alas i was crap and spun it. But this is to show that lift off etc in a rear drive, engine over the back car is not the idea. PSM on or off doesnt really matter it will still do it, but with PSM it was more controllable. Book yourself on the course and have a great day. Top tip for the kick plate is.....keep power on and keep looking at the sign at the end of the pan!!

As above: low friction surface doused in water and an artificially induced slide. Great fun and a good teaching tool, but not real life. Very impressed recently when I tried a new 991 turbo s on the kick plate. Made a hero out of a fool!

The 991 is barely rear-engined in the ways that matter. It's weight distribution is pretty much the same as a mid-engingered car and the engine is not as far back as it used to be. It is not, from anything that I have read, difficult to manage or unpredictable.

I would like to see a 930 Turbo on that kick plate....preverably 'hitting the kick' when its on full boost

that guy cannot drive, I do the kick plate at the max sped allowable and never spin, it gets quite dull. most people just take to long to turn the wheel or turn it too much. a very fast flick of the wheel the cars goes straight, it's not that hard. best bit is trying to predict which way the plates going to go and turn the wrong way lol that's the fun bit. its also amazing how easy that is on winter tyres, which goes to prove winters work very well. Edited by mrdemon on Thursday 10th April 08:55

you cannot go over it very fast, if you do it does not kick.

Yes, yes, MrD... I expect you provide the necessary "dab of oppo" while straightening your tie and listening to experimental jazz.

you just have to be quick , this is me in my exige and shows how fast you have to be at 2.25 a very fast bit of op steering to correct. http://youtu.be/IH5OacjJT50 computer sim do help reactions, but in real life 80% of people either react too slow or turn the wheel too slow. watch the F1 boys how fast they apply op lock. Edited by mrdemon on Thursday 10th April 09:16

It's funny how big that Cayman looks in front of your Elise. 4 things surprised me:- (1) The Cayman not having its spoiler up all the time. Surely that would be a good idea? (2) Your car sounding like crap. (3) You actually being able to drive a bit (4) How obvious it was that you were going to f+ck up that corner out of eagerness to catch up!

If you can't drive it with the stability control turned off - don't turn the stability control off. The Silverstone facility is great, but it has a variety of surfaces and scenarios designed to enable you to safely practice sliding the car. You aren't trying not to slide it, you are trying to slide it and catch it again. If you were driving on a slippery road and weren't up for going sideways, you wouldn't just keep the stability on, you would also restrain from making the car slide in the first place.

How quickly you apply the lock really depends on how quickly the car is rotating. That depends on speed, surface (wet or dry) and what caused the spin, eg lifting off in a rear engined car in the wet is going to cause a quicker spin than power oversteer on a low ish powered front engined, rear wheel drive car in the dry. A flick back and forth is fine for a small loss of traction, but doesn't always work, for example at higher speeds, with a high powered car, with lots of power oversteer. In those case you need to catch the slide (opposite lock for up to a couple of seconds), and then get the car straight. A quick flick would be futile. Most people can catch a slide but they can't straighten the wheel once traction has been regained, hence the oft seen fish tail or spin in the opposite direction. And no I'm not a driving god, but have done enough "Andy" days to understand the mechanics - even if I still cannot master it!

I haven't managed to find the video online, but at the various OPC launch events they have had videos of proper air cooled cars wanging pretty quickly through a sharp s bend. Very quick changes in direction without loosing it, very impressive stuff with only hands and feet to control the car. You should look up some articles that Mark Haies did for 911 & Porsche World where he took each incarnation of 911 on track and examined their handling and compared with their reputation.

Thanks for the input guys! Some great points. I already know about the purpose of the kick plate, but was just curious as to the nature of the 911 with the PSM turned off. So would you guys consider mastering sliding a 911, in the wet with no PSM to be a challenge, but something that can be learnt given practise?

ORD said: It's funny how big that Cayman looks in front of your Elise. 4 things surprised me:- (1) The Cayman not having its spoiler up all the time. Surely that would be a good idea? (2) Your car sounding like crap. (3) You actually being able to drive a bit (4) How obvious it was that you were going to f+ck up that corner out of eagerness to catch up! lol all valid points. A 4 pot is never going to sound great, but 190bhp it did ok on track :-) doing bedford is like Sunday driving with all the noobs in the way, I tend to try and avoid going.

HoneyBadger said: Thanks for the input guys! Some great points. I already know about the purpose of the kick plate, but was just curious as to the nature of the 911 with the PSM turned off. So would you guys consider mastering sliding a 911, in the wet with no PSM to be a challenge, but something that can be learnt given practise? try a 996 GT3, I was drifting that off roundabouts the day I picked it up on the way home. (by mistake I might had it had shot rear tyres when I bought it) NO PSM in that :-) I hate drifting and dislike all these Chris Harris vids, same old same old. So mastering it , no point imo, learn the limits of the car and how to correct a slide yes, But I cannot do show boat drifts and never have a need too. you need a bit of wet and a lot of space to master 50 yard drifts, and no road can offer you that. you will then get people saying at road legal speeds the car will never do anything untowards any way. the most my car ever gets to drifting is on wet roads pulling out of junctions, you might need a dab of op lock if you want to make that small gap at speed :-) I don't drive with PSM on any way it does my head in cutting in way to early, hence why sports mode is a great option, gives you a nice bit of slip before PSM cuts in, but still cuts in if you get it wrong.

mrdemon said: you just have to be quick , this is me in my exige and shows how fast you have to be at 2.25 a very fast bit of op steering to correct. http://youtu.be/IH5OacjJT50 computer sim do help reactions, but in real life 80% of people either react too slow or turn the wheel too slow. watch the F1 boys how fast they apply op lock. Edited by mrdemon on Thursday 10th April 09:16 Aye but lift off oversteer like that is the easy to correct - it's the type that catches you when you have the hammer down that tends to get me facing the other way. Particularly the mid corner bump coming into the pit straight at Castle Combe in the wet :-(

HoneyBadger said: Thanks for the input guys! Some great points. I already know about the purpose of the kick plate, but was just curious as to the nature of the 911 with the PSM turned off. So would you guys consider mastering sliding a 911, in the wet with no PSM to be a challenge, but something that can be learnt given practise? There are easier cars to drift but it can easily be mastered with a bit of practice - and it's brilliant fun... I'll never Forget the Moment when the car "clicked" with me and I was all over sudden able to actually steer the car where I wanted to whilst drifting. http://vimeo.com/49747790 (car in front)

As above: low friction surface doused in water and an artificially induced slide. Great fun and a good teaching tool, but not real life. Very impressed recently when I tried a new 991 turbo s on the kick plate. Made a hero out of a fool!

Don't share the opinion of some on here. If you learn how to drift, you learn car control - end of. If you can properly drift a car there isn't much that will make you flap on a circuit.

noneedtolift said: Don't share the opinion of some on here. If you learn how to drift, you learn car control - end of. If you can properly drift a car there isn't much that will make you flap on a circuit. rubbish :-) braking and understanding weight transfer is far more important than knowing how to drift a car for 40 yards regarding car control. as long as you can catch a slide then that's all one needs. only time I drift is at bruntingthorpe on Vmax days when its wet and the back curve is long and safe enough to have a play at speed. bar that drifting is pointless. so enough of your end of as I disagree ;-p "end of "

mrdemon said: noneedtolift said: Don't share the opinion of some on here. If you learn how to drift, you learn car control - end of. If you can properly drift a car there isn't much that will make you flap on a circuit. rubbish :-) braking and understanding weight transfer is far more important than knowing how to drift a car for 40 yards regarding car control. as long as you can catch a slide then that's all one needs. only time I drift is at bruntingthorpe on Vmax days when its wet and the back curve is long and safe enough to have a play at speed. bar that drifting is pointless. so enough of your end of as I disagree ;-p "end of " Drifting is pointless? Playing around with fast cars is pointless but we all do it! Anyway, I feel you are missing the point, to drift a car IS to understand weight transfer!!!

I know lots of people who understand weight transfer perfectly but can't drive a car on it's limit. I appreciate that there is a difference in requirements in being fast on a track and being able to drift - but in the end the guy who can drift is always going to be the guy who feels more confident on road & track and ultimately will have better overall car control when compared to someone who can't. My experience anyway. Learning how to drift a 911 shaved a clean half second off my laptimes - and over 2 secs in the wet - there isn't really an awful lot that can surprise you or you can't cope with in a track Environment. No better way to learn how to catch a slide then learning how to drift Sorry for the "end of" if that came across harsh - each to their own of course... NB: 40 Yards don't qualify as a "drift" - thats a slide

noneedtolift said: There are easier cars to drift but it can easily be mastered with a bit of practice - and it's brilliant fun... I'll never Forget the Moment when the car "clicked" with me and I was all over sudden able to actually steer the car where I wanted to whilst drifting. http://vimeo.com/49747790 (car in front) Very good. What's the technique in a 911?

Thx! Depends on what phase of the drift you mean (going into the drift, "holding it" etc.) - it's pretty much the same as with any other car, if not as forgiving. In the end you'll just need to get the coordination between your steering inputs and the loud pedal right (that's what I meant when I was talking about how it made "click" in my brain)- control drift angle with the throttle and position the car with the steering. Best way to learn (IMO) is having a large circle track which is watered - practice in both directions trying to do drifts lap by lap and you "get it to click" quite quickly - then move on from there.

Where do you find such a place to practice drifting? is there somewhere I can rent? I live in Surrey

Just Google "drift day".