Is this about right? - Page 2 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

Just had a few quotes for a service Eyebrow’s raised a little at this: £25 environmental charge? 😂

I've heard of Porsche tax but as a point of reference https://www.northway.co.uk/offers/porsche-911-serv...

There must a lot of labour in that spark plug change. Is it something nuts like they have to remove half the car to get to them? Yup, that's the way it looks if this video is relevant, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y99FZsWJiqU

I'd take straight to Northway!

I’ve just had a major service on a 991 with coil packs changed and a couple of other minor add ons, at a respected indie, for just over 2k. As noted above the spark plug change looks quite pricey, but it will depend entirely on how inaccessible they are.

Sparkplug charges looks like it's for a Turbo. Chris

No that's n9t about right, they are ripping you off badly.

Definitely not right, even if it is a 997turbo, example from Paragon: 911 Turbo / GT2 (2007-2012) Service Minor - £550 + VAT (£660 inc.) Major - £690 + VAT (£828 inc.) Spark Plugs - £550 + VAT (£660 inc.) Poly Belt - £240 + VAT (£288 inc.) Brake Fluid - £125.00 + VAT (£150 inc)

BERGS2 said: Just had a few quotes for a service Eyebrow’s raised a little at this: £25 environmental charge? ?? IIRC the environmental charge is the fee to dispose of your old oil.

BERGS2 said: Just had a few quotes for a service Eyebrow’s raised a little at this: £25 environmental charge? ?? The £25 is the recycling cost for the short bread biscuit wrappers you eat with your coffee at drop it and collection time!

BERGS2 said: Just had a few quotes for a service What's the exact model of 997?

Panamax said: What's the exact model of 997? If it’s the one in the OP’s profile, it’s a turbo. Not clear from the OP whether the quote is from a Porsche centre or a garage. If it’s from a Porsche centre, the major service cost and brake fluid change costs are not massively more than the Northway/Paragon rates, and you’d expect a bit of a differential. The issue seems to be whether £1200 odd for the spark plugs is reasonable. Edited by BlackTails on Sunday 20th October 22:05

IMI A said: I'd take straight to Northway! Are Northway a national chain?

Do you have to take the turbos off to get to the plugs? The GT major inc plugs is significantly less so figured there must be additional access issues, but still doesn’t look comparatively right.

looks about right to me. I paid 2,569 Euros incl VAT about 2 months ago for service plus spark plugs and new race brake fluid for a 997 RS

Porsche labour rates in Cambridge were something like £300/hour IIRC, so it adds up. Is your car old enough to claim modern classic? Often the service directors have a good amount of discretion on the older cars if they want the business - it’s literally a case of don’t ask don’t get!

stuthemongoose said: Porsche labour rates in Cambridge were something like £300/hour IIRC, so it adds up. Is your car old enough to claim modern classic? Often the service directors have a good amount of discretion on the older cars if they want the business - it’s literally a case of don’t ask don’t get! yes standard rate is like 300 euros or thereabouts and I got a little discount as it is a Classic. Not every OPC does that though (e.g. the Austrians all did not sign up for the Classic program)

But these rates would be insane .... Take the average Joe with a classic Porsche and calculate how many days they must work to be left with one hour of an OPC's labour after tax ? The average (mean) wage in the UK is £689 per week before taxes ... so two days before tax and three days from their take-home pay ??

peterfield781 said: Are Northway a national chain? Northway are an indy near Aldermaston, outside Reading. They have a good reputation and I used them for servicing (and a post-purchase inspection) until on one occasion they told me the discs and pads needed replacing all round at a cost of approx £2k. I got the car checked with my local guy and they weren't needed at all. I went elsewhere after that. Shame, because they'd been doing well up until then. Precision Porsche in Sussex are my current go to. https://www.precisionporsche.co.uk/997 Edited by Bluesgirl on Monday 21st October 12:29

Bluesgirl said: peterfield781 said: Are Northway a national chain? Northway are an indy near Aldermaston, outside Reading. They have a good reputation and I used them for servicing (and a post-purchase inspection) until on one occasion they told me the discs and pads needed replacing all round at a cost of approx £2k. I got the car checked with my local guy and they weren't needed at all. I went elsewhere after that. Shame, because they'd been doing well up until then. Precision Porsche in Sussex are my current go to. https://www.precisionporsche.co.uk/997 Edited by Bluesgirl on Monday 21st October 12:29 Ah ok thanks. Such a shame when a business feels the need to try the ol' discs & pads ruse. Easy enough to check the brake wear yourself so a bit foolish for them to be openly dishonest and ruin your trust. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01LYZZR2J

Indeed, thanks for the link, I could do with one of those.

MDL111 said: looks about right to me. I paid 2,569 Euros incl VAT about 2 months ago for service plus spark plugs and new race brake fluid for a 997 RS Really, I paid £1500 for major inc plugs, brake fluid flush, and gear box oil refresh, earlier this year. I supplied brake fluid and gear box oil. Car is 997RS. Edit to add, environmental disposal was £4 (+VAT)…

ChrisW. said: But these rates would be insane .... Take the average Joe with a classic Porsche and calculate how many days they must work to be left with one hour of an OPC's labour after tax ? The average (mean) wage in the UK is £689 per week before taxes ... so two days before tax and three days from their take-home pay ?? The average Joe on the national average wage with a classic Porsche. Interesting concept.

BlackTails said: ChrisW. said: But these rates would be insane .... Take the average Joe with a classic Porsche and calculate how many days they must work to be left with one hour of an OPC's labour after tax ? The average (mean) wage in the UK is £689 per week before taxes ... so two days before tax and three days from their take-home pay ?? The average Joe on the national average wage with a classic Porsche. Interesting concept. That did make me giggle.

s_mcneil said: I supplied brake fluid and gear box oil. Car is 997RS. Where did you get the gear oil? Price? It's costly stuff to buy OEM.

Youforreal. said: BlackTails said: ChrisW. said: But these rates would be insane .... Take the average Joe with a classic Porsche and calculate how many days they must work to be left with one hour of an OPC's labour after tax ? The average (mean) wage in the UK is £689 per week before taxes ... so two days before tax and three days from their take-home pay ?? The average Joe on the national average wage with a classic Porsche. Interesting concept. That did make me giggle. I agree ... but there are plenty of solid 944's and Boxsters at under £10k ... and what will be the price of tumbling Taycans etc ? Try servicing those at your local indie ... https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/16075200 Nicely out of warranty ? Edited by ChrisW. on Monday 21st October 15:41

s_mcneil said: MDL111 said: looks about right to me. I paid 2,569 Euros incl VAT about 2 months ago for service plus spark plugs and new race brake fluid for a 997 RS Really, I paid £1500 for major inc plugs, brake fluid flush, and gear box oil refresh, earlier this year. I supplied brake fluid and gear box oil. Car is 997RS. Edit to add, environmental disposal was £4 (+VAT)… just checked - the engine oil was c. 300 and the brake fluid c. 390 (both plus VAT) - so both together already adds another >800 euros incl. VAT, then we are reasonably close on cost depending on how much time the gearbox oil replacement costs (as I don't see that on my invoice). My other Porsche goes to a normal mechanic, which is cheaper.

Youforreal. said: BlackTails said: ChrisW. said: But these rates would be insane .... Take the average Joe with a classic Porsche and calculate how many days they must work to be left with one hour of an OPC's labour after tax ? The average (mean) wage in the UK is £689 per week before taxes ... so two days before tax and three days from their take-home pay ?? The average Joe on the national average wage with a classic Porsche. Interesting concept. That did make me giggle. I'm retired with a pension below national average wage with a 987.2 Cayman. OK, I bought it new 13 years ago and has been in the independent specialist garages almost from new.

Understood ... most of my service work is by independent specialists and there will be no OPC extended warranties on the older vehicles. But the suggested labour rates will affect many owners on the margins as newer vehicles age ... I gave the example of a Taycan ... at what point might they become scrap at the labour rates suggested ? How does this resonate with the claim Porsche make for the high percentage of their legacy vehicles that are still on the road ? Or, at what point may the indies pick up the mantle of electric / hybrid vehicle servicing ... supported by Porsche ? I know that some are already thinking about how they may service more complex vehicles such as the integrated systems on a 992 GT3RS .... This already requires a very high degree of competence within the OPC's .... a concern given some of the issues experienced by contributors to this forum. Maybe there needs to be a vehicle specific labour rate ? Edited by ChrisW. on Monday 21st October 22:25

ChrisW. said: Understood ... most of my service work is by independent specialists and there will be no OPC extended warranties on the older vehicles. But the suggested labour rates will affect many owners on the margins as newer vehicles age ... I gave the example of a Taycan ... at what point might they become scrap at the labour rates suggested ? How does this resonate with the claim Porsche make for the high percentage of their legacy vehicles that are still on the road ? Or, at what point may the indies pick up the mantle of electric / hybrid vehicle servicing ... supported by Porsche ? I know that some are already thinking about how they may service more complex vehicles such as the integrated systems on a 992 GT3RS .... This already requires a very high degree of competence within the OPC's .... a concern given some of the issues experienced by contributors to this forum. Maybe there needs to be a vehicle specific labour rate ? Edited by ChrisW. on Monday 21st October 22:25 How much servicing do you think a Taycan will need vs, say, a 911?

MDL111 said: just checked - the engine oil was c. 300 and the brake fluid c. 390 (both plus VAT) - so both together already adds another >800 euros incl. VAT, then we are reasonably close on cost depending on how much time the gearbox oil replacement costs (as I don't see that on my invoice). My other Porsche goes to a normal mechanic, which is cheaper. That still doesn’t work out, my service included engine oil, and I had gear box oil labour. Like for like it was only the brake fluid which isn’t within the price, which is less than £100 to me and £75 off the bill, so only really 75(+vat) more onto the bill comparatively. Edited by s_mcneil on Tuesday 22 October 06:03

s_mcneil said: MDL111 said: just checked - the engine oil was c. 300 and the brake fluid c. 390 (both plus VAT) - so both together already adds another >800 euros incl. VAT, then we are reasonably close on cost depending on how much time the gearbox oil replacement costs (as I don't see that on my invoice). My other Porsche goes to a normal mechanic, which is cheaper. That still doesn’t work out, my service included engine oil, and I had gear box oil labour. Like for like it was only the brake fluid which isn’t within the price, which is less than £100 to me and £75 off the bill, so only really 75(+vat) more onto the bill comparatively. Edited by s_mcneil on Tuesday 22 October 06:03 ah got it, mmhh guess then it can only be that the hourly rate in the UK is quite a bit lower even after the (relatively small) classic discount they applied to my bill. There are a few smaller things on the bill, but nothing I can see that would make a material difference / looks out of the ordinary

Tindersticks said: ChrisW. said: Understood ... most of my service work is by independent specialists and there will be no OPC extended warranties on the older vehicles. But the suggested labour rates will affect many owners on the margins as newer vehicles age ... I gave the example of a Taycan ... at what point might they become scrap at the labour rates suggested ? How does this resonate with the claim Porsche make for the high percentage of their legacy vehicles that are still on the road ? Or, at what point may the indies pick up the mantle of electric / hybrid vehicle servicing ... supported by Porsche ? I know that some are already thinking about how they may service more complex vehicles such as the integrated systems on a 992 GT3RS .... This already requires a very high degree of competence within the OPC's .... a concern given some of the issues experienced by contributors to this forum. Maybe there needs to be a vehicle specific labour rate ? Edited by ChrisW. on Monday 21st October 22:25 How much servicing do you think a Taycan will need vs, say, a 911? A very good question ... how much will Porsche say it needs and how much may it actually need ? And how much when something goes wrong ? Serious or otherwise ??

peterfield781 said: Ah ok thanks. Such a shame when a business feels the need to try the ol' discs & pads ruse. Easy enough to check the brake wear yourself so a bit foolish for them to be openly dishonest and ruin your trust. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01LYZZR2J tangential thread point, but how do those things work? as a comparison to the disc itself?

stuthemongoose said: Porsche labour rates in Cambridge were something like £300/hour IIRC, so it adds up. Is your car old enough to claim modern classic? Often the service directors have a good amount of discretion on the older cars if they want the business - it’s literally a case of don’t ask don’t get! thanks for that - i guess that is the crux of it. I know the turbos need some of the turbo pipework etc. taken off to get to the sparks - but yes - as an hourly rate thats pretty toppy. it was from an OPC and yes, I've asked RE: the modern clasic point and got offered a 10% reduction on the cost of the main service - (but not the plug labour). Seventy quid or so Looks like a case of suck it up, or take to an Indy.

BERGS2 said: Looks like a case of suck it up, or take to an Indy. Unless you need the stamp for warranty I'd get out the OPC network ASAP, I've had nothing but very (very) poor workmanship from OPCs in the past.

BERGS2 said: tangential thread point, but how do those things work? as a comparison to the disc itself? This explains it well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx7RyoJviu0