Would like a Cayman R but can’t afford one... - Page 5 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

... what would it take to make a plain Cayman S to handle and "feel" like one? I know there is no substitute for lightness but are there modifications that can be done to reach the same performance for a lower price? The last few Cayman Rs I’ve seen sold for around 50k+ but I'm limited to 35k. Missed the train etc. How far would a set of bilsteins, a remap + exhaust and a quaife LSD get me?

I'd just buy a Cayman S and not bother with the mods apart from maybe a more aggressive geo. The differences whilst significant aren't going to make a huge difference in day to day driving.

There are three on Autotrader for less than £40K? Not looked at PH yet.

You can buy the r shocks and arb's. They are not that expensive. You are 85% there then. Yes a remap and one of gerts R modded exhausts will get you to 95% there. All things will easy sell 2nd hand come sale time also.

i would buy a standard gen2 cayman s on 18"wheels and standard suspension (very underated next to a cr)! 10 hp is neither here or there.one of the reasons i bought a spyder over a cr is that it offered something extra over my 987.1 cs riding 18"wheels and standard suspension

The R just that bit better as a drivers car than the Spyder though, just that bit tighter, better arb's much smoother remap. A one off exhaust system which not only sounds better lets a few horses loose. The Spyder just uses Boxster arb's and the map from a standard cayman and a stock PSE, no real extra work done. Every little tweek on the R makes it what it is, and why I think people look over it because people wanted it more hardcore. The Spyder wins on that very bespoke look which I hope will never be repeated, but the R is more finished as a product even down to the black rimed headlights. Saying that I took my Spyder to Spa not the R , something just cool about driving the Spyder :-) but then it does have tweeks... Edited by mrdemon on Friday 11th July 20:33

imho the caymanr v caymans is very much like the 981 cs with x73 v cayman gts x73,the gts doesnt bring alot more to the party just a few body tweeks and 10 hp.i am sorry MrD although the cr is a good car but unless you do a lot of track work the standard cs riding 18s on std suspension is just as good on the road as an everyday car if not better.

itsybitsy said: i am sorry MrD although the cr is a good car but unless you do a lot of track work the standard cs riding 18s on std suspension is just as good on the road as an everyday car if not better. I can't believe I just read that

ajondyh said: itsybitsy said: i am sorry MrD although the cr is a good car but unless you do a lot of track work the standard cs riding 18s on std suspension is just as good on the road as an everyday car if not better. I can't believe I just read that ever since driving porsches since 2003 my cars have been boxster s and cayman S on standard suspension and 18" wheels.when i test drove a cr early 2011 it just didnt blow me away,yes it was good but not worth the premium over my 987.1 cs.likewise today if you have a 987.2 cs or a 981 cs (non pasm car)the gts is not worth the premium.but if you want to buy new then the gts over the cs is a no brainer likewise the cr before it.the cr is basically a cs with x73 plus 10 hp and a fixed spoiler.but what you got for your money buying new was a lot more ie buckets and spyder wheels but if you like pasm and weight is not such an issue the black edition was offering a similar deal (ie 330hp and extra kit)and is a lot rarer and values seem to be holding up but never dismiss the humble standard cs which has always been a great car!!

ajondyh said: I can't believe I just read that People do say daft things Andy :-). Those who own them know it' s a hidden gem of a car when driven a little harder.

itsybitsy said: ajondyh said: itsybitsy said: i am sorry MrD although the cr is a good car but unless you do a lot of track work the standard cs riding 18s on std suspension is just as good on the road as an everyday car if not better. I can't believe I just read that ever since driving porsches since 2003 my cars have been boxster s and cayman S on standard suspension and 18" wheels.when i test drove a cr early 2011 it just didnt blow me away,yes it was good but not worth the premium over my 987.1 cs.likewise today if you have a 987.2 cs or a 981 cs (non pasm car)the gts is not worth the premium.but if you want to buy new then the gts over the cs is a no brainer likewise the cr before it.the cr is basically a cs with x73 plus 10 hp and a fixed spoiler.but what you got for your money buying new was a lot more ie buckets and spyder wheels but if you like pasm and weight is not such an issue the black edition was offering a similar deal (ie 330hp and extra kit)and is a lot rarer and values seem to be holding up but never dismiss the humble standard cs which has always been a great car!! I recently drove a new base 981 Cayman, followed by a CS and then a GTS. I was stunned by how much better the GTS is than the standard car or even the S. It was hard to believe that they were actually the same car. The base car is a lovely car in isolation but the GTS is just miles better. I wouldn't trade my CR in for one though - Lots of people overlook it as a posh S and a lot of reviews missed its brilliance down to disappointment over the nomenclature and final spec but it's a wonderful car though. It sound epic and it's very very quick too!

OP I would make sure you have sat in an R to see how you feel about the bucket seats. I just don't like them or how they are set, I have a Cobra Suzuka Pro in my race car, fits me like a glove and is very comfortable but I just couldn't get comfortable in those Porsche buckets.

Good point - also check you can fit comfortably into a 987 anyway - it was the main reason I didn't buy a CR, as a 1 day drive gave me backache - 1-2" too short in the legroom department. They fixed it with the 981 and I find it more comfortable than the 2 - 997's I have had previously (they both had adaptive seats - the Cayman has simple 2-ways, so perhaps I could never adjust them quite right?). Edited by nsm3 on Saturday 12th July 09:46

mrdemon said: ajondyh said: I can't believe I just read that People do say daft things Andy :-). Those who own them know it' s a hidden gem of a car when driven a little harder. Don't forget I own a spyder so I know how good the R is i!! But if I had bought/owned a 987.2 cs I would not be disappointed.My point is some of us who have driven boxsters/caymans for years while others laughed know how good the standard cars are,that's why if purely driving on the road a well specs cs is all you need!like I said before if buying new a Gts is the one to get with x73 and not pasm But I would say porsche could have made the cr a little more special if they had gone the spyder/911gts route ie more bespoke body to set it apart from the regular cs

To the op I think you will struggle to find a nice late low mileage manual 987.2 cs at £ 35k even they are holding up well price wise if you can find one!

what are these like? http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...

IMI A said: what are these like? http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p... Nice but like the RS 60 they really were a tarted caymanS/boxsterS IMHO much better to buy a cs on standard suspension and save some cash or look for a gen2

itsybitsy said: Don't forget I own a spyder so I know how good the R is i!! But if I had bought/owned a 987.2 cs I would not be disappointed.My point is some of us who have driven boxsters/caymans for years while others laughed know how good the standard cars are,that's why if purely driving on the road a well specs cs is all you need!like I said before if buying new a Gts is the one to get with x73 and not pasm But I would say porsche could have made the cr a little more special if they had gone the spyder/911gts route ie more bespoke body to set it apart from the regular cs So by your own logic the only difference between your spyder and a Boxster S is 2 x humps???

I used to have a Cayman S and test drove an R. Other than things like the bucket seats really couldn't tell the difference

RB_987s said: I used to have a Cayman S and test drove an R. Other than things like the bucket seats really couldn't tell the difference I think that ppl tend to expect a staggering difference on a test drive on normal roads. Thats not where it happens. I think you also need some sort of competition driving experience, and the ability to take a car to its limits to enjoy the benefits of the R. I know Mr D and ChrisW can drive, and some other R owners who don't post so much on here who would probably agree.

OP - Can you afford not to buy an R? Factor in the lack of depreciation and the car will be a lot cheaper than an S. The R is fabulous. Last of it's type.

R1nur said: OP - Can you afford not to buy an R? Factor in the lack of depreciation and the car will be a lot cheaper than an S. The R is fabulous. Last of it's type. I am not sure how to feel about that... the GT4 is coming after all and if (only if) it really has a 3.8 b6 and manual or the GT3 PDK-S then surely that car will be the last of it’s type. Yes I know about electrical steering but there are other cars like the last-gen Mini Cooper S that feel just fine to me even though they have a 6 year old electrical steering rack. A Spyder would be a safer bet for depreciation but won't fit in my budget. The car will also be driven 5-6000 miles per year and surely that will have more impact on the price of a 20k mile Cayman R than on a 40k mile Cayman S?

DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted. but ultimately the CSL will prevail as far as values as concerned.

What about something like this http://www.specialistvehiclepreparations.com/porsc... Then a few other items off the sv upgrades list if required http://www.specialistvehiclepreparations.com/porsc...

nsm3 said: Good point - also check you can fit comfortably into a 987 anyway - it was the main reason I didn't buy a CR, as a 1 day drive gave me backache - 1-2" too short in the legroom department. They fixed it with the 981 and I find it more comfortable than the 2 - 997's I have had previously (they both had adaptive seats - the Cayman has simple 2-ways, so perhaps I could never adjust them quite right?). Edited by nsm3 on Saturday 12th July 09:46 It's funny, having owned 2 987's, I forget how cramped the cabins were. I too had back ache for the first couple of weeks of ownership. The other thing that all 987 Caymans suffer from is the 'ear buffeting' cabin. To this day, it shocks me that Porsche had to fit some weights on springs within the rear hatch to try and cancel out the weird effect of cabin pressure. I suppose that's what comes from redesigning a Roadster into a Coupe years later.

Not really cramped lol Try a noble or a Lotus or a 4c It' s not like buying a Audi S5 I admit, but we dont want larger cars every model it's daft. As for back issue the buckets are about as nice a seat to sit on for 1000 miles. Infact after my trip I had less back pain ::-)

Don't get me wrong, once I got used to it, I was fine. I covered nearly 90K in both my 987's without issue. But being 6ft 2", I only just fitted. I had a Lotus Elise which had more legroom ;-)

True, I had an Exige and no problems with legroom, just the 987.

ajondyh said: So by your own logic the only difference between your spyder and a Boxster S is 2 x humps??? For me, those two humps make the difference in the appearance between the standard Boxster, that I don't like the look of and the Spyder that I think looks great.

RB_987s said: I used to have a Cayman S and test drove an R. Other than things like the bucket seats really couldn't tell the difference Same here.... and for 90% of the other posters. Oh, and the other 10%. The residuals are the only real reason to buy one. That Halford's spoiler is a reason not to.

If you cannot tell a car with passive dampers and a stiff ARB over a normal car, the cars clearly not for you or any one else who drives at 50% or Clio owners... I bought it because it drives better, has more feel and this is why it now has a growing following. then to add the Maps better, the exhaust note is better, it looks loads better due to much less wheel arch gap, the dampers are better, it has a diff etc etc. each to their own of course ;-), when does a test drive ever show up anything bar the big electric steering change. has any car been loads better in the same range, the 964RS and 993RS where never big changes over the 964 and 993 normal cars. the 997.1 RS is well the just about the same as a 997.1 non RS but you pay 40k more for one now. same with the 996 RS, not really worth 50k over a non RS. the issue is the shocks and ARB make the R and they were never options on the S with the 981 the passive dampers and ARB's is an option on a base car. end point, it is the best 987.2 Cayman in ltd numbers with sub 100 manual cars in the UK, add in buckets seats and spyder wheels and prob under 40 UK cars. Makes it one of Porsche rarest cars in driver spec. ALso was auto cars drivers car of the year 2011 :-) Edited by mrdemon on Monday 14th July 13:53

Breaking News: Owner says his car is better than another similar car but only very good drivers would understand. In Court News: Emperor warns car owner of "new robes" scam. In other news: Owner says nothing about the silly spoiler.

Cayman R spoiler is just that, spoils the looks completely for me. As noted above, I'm intrigued by the mods that SVP are doing to the 987c, but they are of course, starting with Caymans at the other (lower) end of the market.

ilduce said: Breaking News: Owner says his car is better than another similar car but only very good drivers would understand. In Court News: Emperor warns car owner of "new robes" scam. In other news: Owner says nothing about the silly spoiler. I think you'll find the inference was drivers who take their car to, or near the limit! Not their driving ability

he is just a sour ex Cayman owner, every one knows I am not bias the way I talked about other cars I have owned and not liked. it's nothing to do with owner ship like some here will fight to the death. I buy a car because I like it, if I don't I sell it. They are disposable lumps of metal in my eyes which get replaced as soon as I am board, or some thing better can be found/come to market. my above statement is 100% correct, and when people get told about a few facts they resort to other ways of talking b ks, that's forums for you :-) the spoiler is what it is, not sure what you want me to say about it, I cannot see it when I am driving and the driving is the part I love. it's a drivers car. (I like the spoiler as it happens any way :-) )

Your first sentence was incorrect. I still have the wallet rapist. The rest of it sounded like a tramp shouting at the cheese in Tesco so I'll just ignore it.....apart from the spoiler thing: It has no function other than to alert other Cayman drivers that it is an R and therefore you are special... but only like a shouting tramp in Tesco... which explains a lot.

sell it if you hate it, haters will always hate, you need to move on from it, it's clearly making you unwell ;-) not sure why the personal attacks, you just come across sour.

Time to get back to the topic

mrdemon said: sell it if you hate it, haters will always hate, you need to move on from it, it's clearly making you unwell ;-) not sure why the personal attacks, you just come across sour. I don't hate it, I hate the bills, I hate the way it's made out to be bulletproof but is in fact made from the same chocolate as a SuperFiat. Anyway, the point I suppose I was trying to make was that a good S will do what the OP wants, unless it was going to be a total track toy and even then most people, despite what the "racing drivers" say, wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Don't take my criticisms personally: anybody spouting that stuff would receive the same but maybe their skin would be thicker. Now I know you're a sensitive little chap I'll try not to be so cruel next time.

ilduce said: The rest of it sounded like a tramp shouting at the cheese in Tesco You really do have a inherent dislike of the underprivileged.

ilduce said: I don't hate it, I hate the bills, I hate the way it's made out to be bulletproof but is in fact made from the same chocolate as a SuperFiat. Anyway, the point I suppose I was trying to make was that a good S will do what the OP wants, unless it was going to be a total track toy and even then most people, despite what the "racing drivers" say, wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Don't take my criticisms personally: anybody spouting that stuff would receive the same but maybe their skin would be thicker. Now I know you're a sensitive little chap I'll try not to be so cruel next time. I have had 4 Porsche models and had no bills, bar tyres and pads to buy, inc. my Gen 1 Cayman S maybe I should take you for a drive in mine and you will change your mind. My skin is thick, this is nothing over the Gt3 boys lol I don't find it upsetting, I just find it a bit strange you feel this way. Porsche over Lambo, Ferrari, Merc, M BMW's are much cheaper to run I have found.

Trev450 said: ilduce said: The rest of it sounded like a tramp shouting at the cheese in Tesco You really do have a inherent dislike of the underprivileged. But I really do understand it's not your fault.

mrdemon said: I have had 4 Porsche models and had no bills, bar tyres and pads to buy, inc. my Gen 1 Cayman S maybe I should take you for a drive in mine and you will change your mind. Porsche over Lambo, Ferrari, Merc, M BMW's are much cheaper to run I have found. Lucky you. Last post on this because it's way off topic, sorry OP! I have a CS gen 1 so I don't need to go for a drive. I've owned Merc's, M Bmw's and TVR's and as far as fragility and cost of ownership, the CS runs a close 2nd to the T350c I had the misfortune to own. Forgetting the exploding engine I can't believe how many things just fail- and I do most of my mileage just commuting. None of the other cars I've owned ever needed so much changing after just 50k miles- eg all of the front suspension bar the springs plus the calipers, water pump, alternator, battery etc. Come to think of it, less parts got changed on that T350, things just shook themselves loose and fell off. And it did smell shi't. Ok. Back to helping the OP buy a Cayman!

ilduce said: Trev450 said: ilduce said: The rest of it sounded like a tramp shouting at the cheese in Tesco You really do have a inherent dislike of the underprivileged. But I really do understand it's not your fault. I feel so much better for knowing that.

Back on topic... :-) The old question of, "can I mod a car to be as good as another one?" Of course you can, but it all depends on what you're looking for. I sold my 997 C2S to buy my Cayman R and I haven't regretted that decision once. There will always be those that think that the R should have had more power, but that's really not what it's about. The chassis setup that the Cayman R rolled out of the factory on is simply fabulous. I knew it was going to be great before I ordered it, because I'd spent a significant amount of time in the Spyder, but knew that I'd drive a hard top more, not to mention that I like the extra structural rigidity that a roof brings to the equation. There's absolutely no denying that the Cayman S is a fabulous driver's car, but find the right roads, or roll onto your favourite circuit and the Cayman R will soon make you realise that those subtle enhancements make a big difference. Okay, it also helps that I kept mine pretty much as light as it could be, bar sticking the radio in it, but it's obviously still not as light as an Exige. What it does have is ride and handling that are as effective on British roads as they are on a smooth track. As far as power is concerned, you'd never tell that a Cayman R has more power than a Cayman S. In fact, on the road my Focus RS can feel faster thanks to that swell of turbocharged torque. But again, put it on a track where you can wind it up to 7,400rpm and then scrub the speed off for a hairpin, and you'll start to understand the R's merits. Oh, and despite the Cayman R's ability on track and the right roads, I can still take my wife out to dinner in it - something that I wouldn't be able to do in an Exige or even a GT3 :-)

Why could you not take the wife out in a GT3?

MDT48 said: Back on topic... :-) The old question of, "can I mod a car to be as good as another one?" Of course you can, but it all depends on what you're looking for. I sold my 997 C2S to buy my Cayman R and I haven't regretted that decision once. There will always be those that think that the R should have had more power, but that's really not what it's about. The chassis setup that the Cayman R rolled out of the factory on is simply fabulous. I knew it was going to be great before I ordered it, because I'd spent a significant amount of time in the Spyder, but knew that I'd drive a hard top more, not to mention that I like the extra structural rigidity that a roof brings to the equation. There's absolutely no denying that the Cayman S is a fabulous driver's car, but find the right roads, or roll onto your favourite circuit and the Cayman R will soon make you realise that those subtle enhancements make a big difference. Okay, it also helps that I kept mine pretty much as light as it could be, bar sticking the radio in it, but it's obviously still not as light as an Exige. What it does have is ride and handling that are as effective on British roads as they are on a smooth track. As far as power is concerned, you'd never tell that a Cayman R has more power than a Cayman S. In fact, on the road my Focus RS can feel faster thanks to that swell of turbocharged torque. But again, put it on a track where you can wind it up to 7,400rpm and then scrub the speed off for a hairpin, and you'll start to understand the R's merits. Oh, and despite the Cayman R's ability on track and the right roads, I can still take my wife out to dinner in it - something that I wouldn't be able to do in an Exige or even a GT3 :-) Intersting post. I have an exige s but at the weekend at spa was impressed by a cayman r pdk that was on some hot laps., So do you have a pdk or manual and have you driven both so am able to offer an opinion on both ? Tks

V12DRC said: MDT48 said: Back on topic... :-) The old question of, "can I mod a car to be as good as another one?" Of course you can, but it all depends on what you're looking for. I sold my 997 C2S to buy my Cayman R and I haven't regretted that decision once. There will always be those that think that the R should have had more power, but that's really not what it's about. The chassis setup that the Cayman R rolled out of the factory on is simply fabulous. I knew it was going to be great before I ordered it, because I'd spent a significant amount of time in the Spyder, but knew that I'd drive a hard top more, not to mention that I like the extra structural rigidity that a roof brings to the equation. There's absolutely no denying that the Cayman S is a fabulous driver's car, but find the right roads, or roll onto your favourite circuit and the Cayman R will soon make you realise that those subtle enhancements make a big difference. Okay, it also helps that I kept mine pretty much as light as it could be, bar sticking the radio in it, but it's obviously still not as light as an Exige. What it does have is ride and handling that are as effective on British roads as they are on a smooth track. As far as power is concerned, you'd never tell that a Cayman R has more power than a Cayman S. In fact, on the road my Focus RS can feel faster thanks to that swell of turbocharged torque. But again, put it on a track where you can wind it up to 7,400rpm and then scrub the speed off for a hairpin, and you'll start to understand the R's merits. Oh, and despite the Cayman R's ability on track and the right roads, I can still take my wife out to dinner in it - something that I wouldn't be able to do in an Exige or even a GT3 :-) Intersting post. I have an exige s but at the weekend at spa was impressed by a cayman r pdk that was on some hot laps., So do you have a pdk or manual and have you driven both so am able to offer an opinion on both ? Tks Mate of mine has an Exige, it's tuned slightly and has nitrons with a track set-up. I have a manual Cayman R and I find that on track the cars are pretty evenly matched. Last year, we were fortunate enough to do a track day at the 'ring. The weather was perfect and I had some instruction. Post instruction my mate (who's a better driver than me) really struggled to keep up. A well-driven Cayman R is a pretty spectacular bit of kit to behold.

J-P said: Mate of mine has an Exige, it's tuned slightly and has nitrons with a track set-up. I have a manual Cayman R and I find that on track the cars are pretty evenly matched. Last year, we were fortunate enough to do a track day at the 'ring. The weather was perfect and I had some instruction. Post instruction my mate (who's a better driver than me) really struggled to keep up. A well-driven Cayman R is a pretty spectacular bit of kit to behold. Whats regarded as better manual or PDK?

mrdemon said: sell it if you hate it, haters will always hate, you need to move on from it, it's clearly making you unwell ;-) not sure why the personal attacks, you just come across sour.

V12DRC said: Whats regarded as better manual or PDK? Manual seems to belong more to the size/power of the CR (with buckets/correct wheels/peridot), but the PDK is astonishingly effective - perfect for learning a new track.

V12DRC said: Intersting post. I have an exige s but at the weekend at spa was impressed by a cayman r pdk that was on some hot laps., So do you have a pdk or manual and have you driven both so am able to offer an opinion on both ? Tks Was it a UK one in Peridot?

V12DRC said: Whats regarded as better manual or PDK? Oh no!!!

mrdemon said: If you cannot tell a car with passive dampers and a stiff ARB over a normal car, the cars clearly not for you or any one else who drives at 50% or Clio owners... I bought it because it drives better, has more feel and this is why it now has a growing following. then to add the Maps better, the exhaust note is better, it looks loads better due to much less wheel arch gap, the dampers are better, it has a diff etc etc. each to their own of course ;-), when does a test drive ever show up anything bar the big electric steering change. has any car been loads better in the same range, the 964RS and 993RS where never big changes over the 964 and 993 normal cars. the 997.1 RS is well the just about the same as a 997.1 non RS but you pay 40k more for one now. same with the 996 RS, not really worth 50k over a non RS. the issue is the shocks and ARB make the R and they were never options on the S with the 981 the passive dampers and ARB's is an option on a base car. end point, it is the best 987.2 Cayman in ltd numbers with sub 100 manual cars in the UK, add in buckets seats and spyder wheels and prob under 40 UK cars. Makes it one of Porsche rarest cars in driver spec. ALso was auto cars drivers car of the year 2011 :-) Edited by mrdemon on Monday 14th July 13:53 MrDemon you clearly know your onions with these cars so just a few question if you don't mind- Whats the deal dampers R VS Non R Cayman? Power difference R VS NOn R PDK or Manual the more sought after and in your opinion whats best? TKS

ajondyh said: as it a UK one in Peridot? Yes it was loved it

Mermaid said: Manual seems to belong more to the size/power of the CR (with buckets/correct wheels/peridot), but the PDK is astonishingly effective - perfect for learning a new track. Tks Mermaid maybe we should run this past apolo too to see if he guided Porsche through the options list 😀 I'm rather taken by the cayman r

V12DRC said: I'm rather taken by the cayman r Best handling, chuckable VFM Porsche and great for shopping too - a boot at the front and one at the rear. Economical too for it is a relative lightweight and cheaper on consumables.

V12DRC said: J-P said: Mate of mine has an Exige, it's tuned slightly and has nitrons with a track set-up. I have a manual Cayman R and I find that on track the cars are pretty evenly matched. Last year, we were fortunate enough to do a track day at the 'ring. The weather was perfect and I had some instruction. Post instruction my mate (who's a better driver than me) really struggled to keep up. A well-driven Cayman R is a pretty spectacular bit of kit to behold. Whats regarded as better manual or PDK? Depends on what you like. Mine's a manual, it has a very sweet gearshift. However, the PDK is faster but for me less rewarding. Great on track though!

Exhaust note any good having been used to gt3's?

V12DRC said: MrDemon you clearly know your onions with these cars so just a few question if you don't mind- Whats the deal dampers R VS Non R Cayman? Power difference R VS NOn R PDK or Manual the more sought after and in your opinion whats best? TKS Dampers on the S are PASM, so not passive. The R dampers are the only sports passive dampers available on the 987.2 and 997.2 cars. Cayman R has 330hp standard S has 320hp (not convinced its a noticeable difference but never driven an S and an R back to back. R is incredibly quick though. I had a 997.2 GTS and I reckon the R is as quick in a straight line and much faster in the corners (in my hands anyway). I'd imagine manual is better for true enthusiast spec but don't think you'd lose money on either. I think you'd need to try both and see what you prefer. Personally, the spec of the manual R is perfect for me, no silly electric parking brake, NA, flat 6, lightweight, manual and for a 2seater practical too. We've managed to get the monthly shop in ours, which is pretty impressive for an out and out sports car.

V12DRC said: Exhaust note any good having been used to gt3's? IMHO it's no match for a GT3 in terms of exhaust note but it does have a great flat 6 wail and the induction noise is much greater as the engine is right behind your head.

Tks all

with a few little mods you can see over 360BHp on these also, and the Tubi on a R just sounds amazing. But as others have said, so usable, and then on track keeps up with other stuff. pretty amazing car to be able to do roads and track very very well and still do the monthly shop at Waitrose. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R25AH2MFLWE all the noise you need without being daft.

After reading some more topics I think the best course of action for me is to wait until the GT4s are out. I suspect that quite a few Cayman R owners will make the jump to the GT4 because - despite the price difference - the two cars are aimed at roughly the same audience. Prices may even go down a little bit when that happens and even if not I’ll have a larger budget to work with.

V12DRC said: Intersting post. I have an exige s but at the weekend at spa was impressed by a cayman r pdk that was on some hot laps., So do you have a pdk or manual and have you driven both so am able to offer an opinion on both ? Tks I once described the Cayman R as an Exige with a much better engine inside :-) While that may be a little simplistic, it's not a million miles away from how it feels when you're driving one. My car is manual. And despite the fact that I know I'd probably be faster around a circuit with a PDK box, I simply wouldn't be having as much fun. I like to feel like I'm driving the car, and that when I get the downshifts just right, it's because I combined my feet and hands to achieve that, rather than some clever software doing it for me. I've got nothing against PDK, and I think that in models like the 911 Turbo it makes for a better car, I just think that a car like the Cayman R is more about feel and interaction. I'm not looking to start a fight about it though, so anyone who has PDK should enjoy it, knowing that they made the right choice for them. As for a direct comparison to an Exige - yes I've driven many, on many circuits and on many roads. The Cayman R doesn't feel as instantly light and agile as the Exige, but once you start to work with it, you'll be amazed at how composed it is through sweepers and hairpins. The sound when you're lapping a track or out on the road isn't even worth comparing - having a flat-six wailing behind your head as you climb towards the redline sends tingles down your spine. And of course the build quality is in a different league altogether - not that I really mind the basic nature of Lotus cars, but as I mentioned in my previous post, I can spend all day on track in the Cayman R, then pick my wife up and head out to dinner in it - she even loves the buckets. I was on track last year with a guy in a V6 Exige, and there was very little between the two cars, and every time we parked up next to each other in the pits I was surprised at how big the new car is compared to the old model.

J-P said: Dampers on the S are PASM, so not passive. No the dampers on the S are passive PASM was a £1k extra and the standard set up is pretty good ,the R just rides lower and is slightly stiffer.

Seems that Porsche like the Cayman R styling (Including the spoiler) This looks like an R on steroids!! http://blog.dupontregistry.com/porsche/porsche-exc...

swimd said: After reading some more topics I think the best course of action for me is to wait until the GT4s are out. I suspect that quite a few Cayman R owners will make the jump to the GT4 because - despite the price difference - the two cars are aimed at roughly the same audience. Prices may even go down a little bit when that happens and even if not I’ll have a larger budget to work with. Good plan - however the GT4 is an unknown quantity. I'm planning on getting a GT4 but if the spec is not what I'd want then, I'll give up my spot in the queue, so my CR would not be for sale in that instance.

same here, if the cars not 100% how I want it, I'll spend 5k on the R with a few choice upgrades. if the cars not how people want it the R will go up in value !

mrdemon said: same here, if the cars not 100% how I want it, I'll spend 5k on the R with a few choice upgrades. if the cars not how people want it the R will go up in value ! Porsche don't disappoint, do they?

J-P said: Good plan - however the GT4 is an unknown quantity. I'm planning on getting a GT4 but if the spec is not what I'd want then, I'll give up my spot in the queue, so my CR would not be for sale in that instance. Well yes it is a gamble and I know that but my feeling says that the GT4 will be the 4.0 RS of Caymans. The last pure "driver’s car" with a N/A flat 6, possibly last manual too. If that is the case then a lot of people will change from the CR to a GT4. I also think that a good amount of CR owners will upgrade to the GT4 even if the worst case turbo-4 pot/PDK-S scenario happens and the CR remains the "better"/"more pure" car. Not everybody cares about things like the feel of the hydraulic steering rack and a lot of people only care about having the latest and greatest (and most expensive). I reckon less than 50% of all Cayman R owners know what type of steering rack their car has... (but 100% of the owners on here do)

swimd said: Well yes it is a gamble and I know that but my feeling says that the GT4 will be the 4.0 RS of Caymans. The last pure "driver’s car" with a N/A flat 6, possibly last manual too. If that is the case then a lot of people will change from the CR to a GT4. Very different price points though.

Mermaid said: Porsche don't disappoint, do they? often, this whole electric steering is very disappointing

mrdemon said: Mermaid said: Porsche don't disappoint, do they? often, this whole electric steering is very disappointing The bigger picture

the big picture is if I am spending £85k it's got to be bloody good. the R is so good it's hard to spend £45k on top of it to buy the GT4 if it,s a bit of a GTS project. not really a new car buyer you tend to loose too much. Just the difference buying new if perfect or waiting 2 years and picking one up 20k less, as long as it's not ltd numbers. I have 3 nice cars to drive so don't want for any thing really. the R is a hard car not to go and look at esp in Peridot and these crazy skies Edited by mrdemon on Thursday 17th July 15:57

swimd said: Well yes it is a gamble and I know that but my feeling says that the GT4 will be the 4.0 RS of Caymans. The last pure "driver’s car" with a N/A flat 6, possibly last manual too. If that is the case then a lot of people will change from the CR to a GT4. I also think that a good amount of CR owners will upgrade to the GT4 even if the worst case turbo-4 pot/PDK-S scenario happens and the CR remains the "better"/"more pure" car. Not everybody cares about things like the feel of the hydraulic steering rack and a lot of people only care about having the latest and greatest (and most expensive). I reckon less than 50% of all Cayman R owners know what type of steering rack their car has... (but 100% of the owners on here do) I think you're underestimating the reasons why second CR owners actually own them

MDT48 said: I once described the Cayman R as an Exige with a much better engine inside :-) While that may be a little simplistic, it's not a million miles away from how it feels when you're driving one. My car is manual. And despite the fact that I know I'd probably be faster around a circuit with a PDK box, I simply wouldn't be having as much fun. I like to feel like I'm driving the car, and that when I get the downshifts just right, it's because I combined my feet and hands to achieve that, rather than some clever software doing it for me. I've got nothing against PDK, and I think that in models like the 911 Turbo it makes for a better car, I just think that a car like the Cayman R is more about feel and interaction. I'm not looking to start a fight about it though, so anyone who has PDK should enjoy it, knowing that they made the right choice for them. As for a direct comparison to an Exige - yes I've driven many, on many circuits and on many roads. The Cayman R doesn't feel as instantly light and agile as the Exige, but once you start to work with it, you'll be amazed at how composed it is through sweepers and hairpins. The sound when you're lapping a track or out on the road isn't even worth comparing - having a flat-six wailing behind your head as you climb towards the redline sends tingles down your spine. And of course the build quality is in a different league altogether - not that I really mind the basic nature of Lotus cars, but as I mentioned in my previous post, I can spend all day on track in the Cayman R, then pick my wife up and head out to dinner in it - she even loves the buckets. I was on track last year with a guy in a V6 Exige, and there was very little between the two cars, and every time we parked up next to each other in the pits I was surprised at how big the new car is compared to the old model. Tks very insightful

MDT48 said: I once described the Cayman R as an Exige with a much better engine inside :-) While that may be a little simplistic, it's not a million miles away from how it feels when you're driving one. My car is manual. And despite the fact that I know I'd probably be faster around a circuit with a PDK box, I simply wouldn't be having as much fun. I like to feel like I'm driving the car, and that when I get the downshifts just right, it's because I combined my feet and hands to achieve that, rather than some clever software doing it for me. I've got nothing against PDK, and I think that in models like the 911 Turbo it makes for a better car, I just think that a car like the Cayman R is more about feel and interaction. I'm not looking to start a fight about it though, so anyone who has PDK should enjoy it, knowing that they made the right choice for them. As for a direct comparison to an Exige - yes I've driven many, on many circuits and on many roads. The Cayman R doesn't feel as instantly light and agile as the Exige, but once you start to work with it, you'll be amazed at how composed it is through sweepers and hairpins. The sound when you're lapping a track or out on the road isn't even worth comparing - having a flat-six wailing behind your head as you climb towards the redline sends tingles down your spine. And of course the build quality is in a different league altogether - not that I really mind the basic nature of Lotus cars, but as I mentioned in my previous post, I can spend all day on track in the Cayman R, then pick my wife up and head out to dinner in it - she even loves the buckets. I was on track last year with a guy in a V6 Exige, and there was very little between the two cars, and every time we parked up next to each other in the pits I was surprised at how big the new car is compared to the old model. That's very insightful

mrdemon said: Saying that I took my Spyder to Spa not the R , something just cool about driving the Spyder :-) but then it does have tweeks... Edited by mrdemon on Friday 11th July 20:33 You might have been quicker had you taken the R...

cortell said: You might have been quicker had you taken the R... no posts for a year and you post this ? very odd I could read into it that you were there and I was going slow :-) or you think the Spyder is slower ? Both would be incorrect ;-)

mrdemon said: often, this whole electric steering is very disappointing Why, can you really tell the difference? If you can what is it? What measurable detrimental effect does it have, on track or on the road? Now I'm no driving god by any means and respect those that can give it full beans but even if there is a slight difference in feel or feed back isn't this so minor that comments like 'very disappointing' are a little strong? FWIW I like the R spoiler....

It just feels limp with no feed back till it loads up. yes you get used to it and the lastest GTS is the best yet (not driven a 991 GT3) when it's wet on the road is the bigger issue when you are ball outs driving on the limit though. I have driven 981 boxster, Cayman, GTS and 991 when you get back in the R you just feel more at one with the car which makes it more fun. And buying these cars is for fun other wise we would all be in Golf R's (a great all round 4WD car) I owned a TTRS and got used to that ok, you just get used to anything, but's it's hard test driving anything new when you get back in the R or Spyder and then think "f k me this is loads better" Edited by mrdemon on Thursday 31st July 10:35

mrdemon said: no posts for a year and you post this ? very odd I could read into it that you were there and I was going slow :-) or you think the Spyder is slower ? Both would be incorrect ;-) I was there and you were slow. I didn't realise it was you until now.

good that's sorted, as long as you were not the one trying to out brake me into the top bend all is good. bar you being a driving god of course.... I over took many cars, many cars over took me, it's a fun day out, still seems a odd post after not posting for a year. My tyres that day had a very short window of 3 fast laps I then ran 2 cool down laps for my Ceramics, but if you want to feel that you were way faster I am very happy for you. Edited by mrdemon on Thursday 31st July 12:07

mrdemon said: good that's sorted, as long as you were not the one trying to out brake me into the top bend all is good. bar you being a driving god of course.... I over took many cars, many cars over took me, it's a fun day out, still seems a odd post after not posting for a year. My tyres that day had a very short window of 3 fast laps I then ran 2 cool down laps for my Ceramics, but if you want to feel that you were way faster I am very happy for you. Edited by mrdemon on Thursday 31st July 12:07 Ah the old my tyres are s t excuse. And two cool down laps for the ceramics? Chuckle.

what is your point after a year not posting, now posting how you think I am very slow at Spa. 1st time there on track I know nothing about which is quite a hard track to master. I do these things for fun with friends in a car set up for the road, and yes Ceramic's need looking after , at £15k a set(double the cost of buying a S1) I tend to give them the cooling they need ;-p but if you want to be faster than me then that's great for you. next year I will do zandvoort with LOT for a fun trip and I'll drive that at 80% also. got to love these track day ego racers.

I don't read forums much but I have read a lot of your horses t over the years just amused me that you were as slow as you were given how you write. I find it interesting you drive at 100mph+ on the road (which you've said many times) but 80% on track. And what's the point of having these wonderful PCCBs fitted if you are too much of a pussy or too poor to use them? And two laps to cool them is clearly nonsense. Zandvoort is a great track but not much fun at 80%.

I have put down a deposit on a relatively high milage E46 CSL. If the path this topic took represents the "Porsche Cayman/Boxster" community as a whole then I am quite happy that I won't have anything to do with it in the future. Still, thanks to the few guys who made constructive comments.

cortell said: I don't read forums much but I have read a lot of your horses t over the years just amused me that you were as slow as you were given how you write. I find it interesting you drive at 100mph+ on the road (which you've said many times) but 80% on track. And what's the point of having these wonderful PCCBs fitted if you are too much of a pussy or too poor to use them? And two laps to cool them is clearly nonsense. Zandvoort is a great track but not much fun at 80%. lol 100mph plus on the right road can be at 60%, both my cars do 170mph+, I use the PCCB to the max, you have to respect them and they will give you a longer life, which does mean cooling them down and replacing pads at 50% (common knowledge if you follow Ceramics) , the price you pay I guess. but you have really shown your true colours on these reposts, have fun winning at track days and being rich, hope I don't meet you at the next one.

I think you made a great choice with the CSL. It will become an iconic car. The looks, noise and 'specialness' take it so far beyond a normal M3 that it may as well be called something entirely different. I can't see that ever happening with the Cayman R, it's just not different enough from the standard Cayman S. Keep the CSL forever! I made the mistake of selling mine when the market wasn't great.

mrdemon said: lol 100mph plus on the right road can be at 60%, both my cars do 170mph+, I use the PCCB to the max, you have to respect them and they will give you a longer life, which does mean cooling them down and replacing pads at 50% (common knowledge if you follow Ceramics) , the price you pay I guess. but you have really shown your true colours on these reposts, have fun winning at track days and being rich, hope I don't meet you at the next one. lol. So you are braking from 120mph on public roads and Vboxing the results (according to the other thread) yet driving like a pussy on track days?

cortell said: lol. So you are braking from 120mph on public roads and Vboxing the results (according to the other thread) yet driving like a pussy on track days? Ha ha... I must say that most of Mr Demons posts are aggressive and also suggest he is some kind of driving god. I seem to remember another PH member saying they'd seem him at a track say and said he was useless!!! Thank you Cortell - you've given me a good laugh on a Friday!

none of my posts are aggressive ! and this is a lap from me, so think what ever you like, If we were all fast we would be getting paid to race, but most go and do a track day for fun. I have never posted on public forums that fellow drivers at track days are s t. but the net and the keyboard warriors today forums are getting not a nice place to be most of the time. if you have 3 or 4 Pistonhead members saying I am useless and you want to jump on the band waggon it also shows your true colours. inf act you guys don't sound very nice people. http://youtu.be/gTpa8K7-Jc0?list=UUlaB8y7ruWQ24BwJ... Edited by mrdemon on Friday 1st August 09:28

I have found mr d like some others on forums opinionated but never aggressive ,but the dick waving that's going on here is a bit uncalled for and borderline cyber bulling!and just for the record I too think like most I am a driving god but in reality I am like most not that good but still enjoy driving like I was! Edited by itsybitsy on Friday 1st August 10:10

Can't see owt wrong with Mr D's driving TBH?

Forums are just nasty places some times, you either have to tow the line or not speak up. I some times think I might give it all up, but I do like helping a few people who ask for help and I am a car nut. As for the guys on here the last page, well you guys can make up your mind about them, ego's, one up man ship, insecure who knows, but it's the same few guys as always bar a few new pop ups. (this lastest is a classic) on the whole though at track days you meet like minded people at all levels and we all like to share our rides and visa virsa, it's new to me to see this utter slagging from like minded track day goers and for people then to jump on the band wagon is utter gutter level. That's the world and Net we live in these days. put a bit of a downer on me the last few days, but hay ho. I am thick skinned and used to it, but I do feel a bit unhappy today. But it's nice to see a few guys sticking up for me :-) and I thank you for that. Edited by mrdemon on Friday 1st August 10:55

Don't know what's going on here, but I've seen MrD driving on track several times and always seemed ok. He may have his opinions, and we don't all agree with them (I certainly don't and he knows that), but if people can't take him at face value and realise it's only *his* opinion then I think the problem may lie with them. I still take the piss over the £10k GT3 refresh, but I think he knows I mean no malice, as I actually know bugger all....

I bought car on its spec (spyders, buckets, pse, manual), privately, passing up a opc car, on the basis of opinions expressed on ph forums over a number of years. It was only after I bought the car and revisited those posts I realised they were all Mr D's!! But it was the right car so I am grateful for his opinions. I look forward to meeting you Mr D.

Zyp said: Don't know what's going on here, but I've seen MrD driving on track several times and always seemed ok. He may have his opinions, and we don't all agree with them (I certainly don't and he knows that), but if people can't take him at face value and realise it's only *his* opinion then I think the problem may lie with them. I still take the piss over the £10k GT3 refresh, but I think he knows I mean no malice, as I actually know bugger all.... Goes up £1k for every year the car gets older, ie a '99 is due a £14/15k refresh ;-) Though putting £1k a side each year in a maintenance pot isnt a bad idea tbh

swimd said: I have put down a deposit on a relatively high milage E46 CSL. If the path this topic took represents the "Porsche Cayman/Boxster" community as a whole then I am quite happy that I won't have anything to do with it in the future. Still, thanks to the few guys who made constructive comments. Good choice mate. Enjoy!

swimd said: If the path this topic took represents the "Porsche Cayman/Boxster" community as a whole then I am quite happy that I won't have anything to do with it in the future. Still, thanks to the few guys who made constructive comments. This seems the way some posts go on all forums and not just car related! So it won't happen on a BMW forum then?