Math that 911 owners don't get

Provacative title? Anyway, one thing that 'irks' me about this silly 911 vs. Cayman S 'debate' is that 911 enthusiasts claim that the Cayman S isn't worth the $ difference above the Boxster S, in fact I've heard the same thing coming from Boxster owners. I decided to put that statement to the test and see what I came up with. Let's start with some pricing shall we, all figures from Porsche in $US. Boxster S - $54,700 base Cayman S - $58,900 base 997 Carrera - $71,300 base Price between Boxster S and Cayman S - $4200 Price between Cayman S and 997 - $12,400 Horsepower Boxster S - 280 Cayman S - 295 997 - 325 The $4200 price difference between the Cayman S and the Boxster S buys you 15 horsepower or $280 / HP The $12,400 price difference between the Cayman S and the 997 buys you 30 HP or $413.33 / HP 0-60 times as published by Road & Track Boxster S 5.0 seconds Cayman S 4.8 seconds 997 4.4 seconds The $4,200 price difference (Boxster S to Cayman S) buys you .2 sec or $2,100 per .1 of a second The $12,400 price difference (Cayman S to 997) buys you .4 sec or $3,100 per .1 of a second Top Speed as published by Porsche Boxster S 167mph Cayman S 171 mph 997 177 mph $4200 buys you 4 mph or $1050 per mph $12,400 buys you 6 mph or $2067 per mph Weight? $4200 shaves off about 15lbs, $12,400 adds about 150lbs so I don't know how you want to figure that one! So please, help me understand how buying a base 997 is a better 'deal' than going from a Boxster S to a Cayman S? As someone mentioned previously if we all wanted deals we wouldn't be buying a Porsche in the first place.

You're using logical thinking to make an argument that is purely emotional for the 911 crowd. For them anything other than a 911 isn't the 'real deal'. Whatever motivates them, the 911 culthas collectively held Porsche hostage for years in terms of developing other non-911sports cars. I like the 911 but at least for me it's pretty tired. The 997 stylistically is a rehash of 993 cuesand 996 tooling. I would be willing to bet thatPorsche management and engineering is also tired of constantly re-inventing the 911, but to do otherwise would be suicide for the company. There are some legit arguments that the GT3 and Turbo variants are technologically superior because they abandon the M96 motor for a GT1 derived true dry sump and I have no problem accepting that, butnow we are talking serious money above the Cayman. My reason for wanting to avoid the Cayman/911 comparisons is precisely because the 911 camp will become energized against the car (which is now beginning), and don't kid yourself, if these guys generate enough negative 'buzz' it will affect sales.

I hate all this bickering nonesense, it's like Sega vs Nintendo when I was 10 years old. Let certain 911 owners rag on the Cayman all they want, I don't care. The Cayman has awesome press reviews from people who *really* know what they are talking about and that's good enough for me!

Can't remember which magazine did the chart, but the price of Porsches goes up as the weight/hp ratio improves. So Boxster, Boxster S, Cayman S, 911 Carrera - und so weiter. That's good news for those considering a base Cayman.

We should just employ a standard reply: 'Yes you are right. I really want a 911, but I can't afford it, so I am stuck with the cheaper Cayman S.' If we use this reply often enough, maybe the 911 will just shut the hell up.

DaveC, I know I'm making a 'logical' argument, so what Boxster or 911 owners/enthusiasts 'should' be saying is that the Cayman S isn't 'worth' the price difference on 'emotional' grounds, because on 'logical' grounds you couldn't justify the 911. Personally I know several 911 enthusiasts who are trading in their 911's for a Cayman S! It's all good!

I seriously doubt that.

As far as the cost per horse power logic goes, zooting up the Cayman to 325 horses should be an easy job. The Boxter S can be brought up into the 325 horse range with an intake/exhaust systemand no chip. If I have to spend, lets say, $3,000 and add 30 HP to almost match the base Carreras that make the formula even nore attractive. $100.00 per HP.

I'm one of them. I started my 911 experience with an 89 Carrera, moved to 993, 993C4, and finally the993TT. I lovedmy 911 but grew tired of driving the same car and wanted something different. Since 2001, I have had 3 M3, 2 with SMG.I also loved myM3, but grew tired again. The Cayman is the car for me today. As a car enthusiast, their are too many great cars past, present, and future to not experience as many as possible. Life is short, buy what makes you happy and enjoy. /fckeditor/editor/images/smiley/MWPX/regular_smile.gif

Nice break down K-Man! thanks. /fckeditor/editor/images/smiley/MWPX/teeth_smile.gif

The competitive air between 911 and Cayman S has long passed the point of being productive. I've chosen to buy a Cayman S and I really don't care what others think, whether they own 911's or whatever. I know that Porsche will be foolish to let anything threaten their 911 loyalists, which means the Cayman S will always be positioned below in terms of objective performance statistics straight from the factory. But that is not why I (and presumably a lot of us here) are buying it; we all have our own reasons, and it may or may not have to do with being able to buy a 911. I hope Porsche continues to develop the 911 and keep that model a financial success so they can pursue other projects. For me, I have no interest in a rear-engined vehicle and want to return to a mid-engined sports car thatcan be used daily. Don't mean to offend anyone, but I think everyone needs to take a deep breath and think before typing. schao

Just back from a track day. Drove a 996 Turbo! Awesome. The whole 911 v Cayman S debate is pretty pointless IMO. We are all looking forward to driving/owning the cayman s but one thing bonds us all together (most of anyway) Porsche cars (Boxster, Cayman, 911, the lot).

Cheers Cordad!

Ok Just to play devils advocate here. Not really comparing apples to apples. The boxster s is still a convertible which for every other car maker in the world is a premium over the coupe. So hypothetically if porsche built a boxster s hardtop (and named it as such /fckeditor/editor/images/smiley/MWPX/regular_smile.gif) with the exact same hp/suspension/etc as the boxster we have today it would be fair to assume that it would probably be about 5-6 thousand less than the convertible version or around 49 to 50 thousand for the boxster s hardtop base. If you look at the numbers from this point is it worth paying the extra 10000 for the cayman s over our hypothetical boxster s hardtop (which comes out to about $660 dollars for each of those extra ponies)?

Very fair point, phil_m. Financial logic says no, but for car crazed enthusiasts other considerations enter the picture, whether they be emotional, ideological, perceptual, etc. I think every person who has ordered a Cayman S is aware of Porsche's premium pricing vs the Boxster and somehow had to deal with it. Those who can nothave not ordered or are hoping to buy it used in ayear or two. Over the next couple years, we'll learn just how good Porsche marketing is in maintaining a Cayman price premium to the Boxster. I suspect in many of our cases (ie. those of us ordering now), it boils down to wanting a mid-engined coupe, and there simply are very limited options in the marketplace and the Cayman S fills the bill. What would you suggest as alternatives? Porsche hasn't always gotten it right, and let's assume theCayman bombs, how much of a financial hit do you think initial buyers will take? What do you think Porsche will do in that case: cease production of the Cayman or drop the price to below that of the Boxster? How could they further distinguish the Boxster S vs Cayman S vs 911 in the future? My questions are not intended to be hostile in any way, but to promote some more thinking/discussion, so please don't take offense.

Porsche does a good job of slicing the sports car market. The Cayman was supposedly developed to revive lagging Boxster sales. I am sure that BMW has the same idea in mind for the Z4 coupe and M derivatives of the Z4. We can expect Porsche to someday soon put the 3.4 liter engine in the Boxster, by that time thereshould be more horsepower fora Cayman RS. With the 911 generation moving ahead in their lives, I am sure that Porsche marketers and engineers are ready to quickly respond to declining 911 sales with more Cayman models on either side of the 2006 Cayman S. Porsche engineers have wanted to move away from this rear-engine platform for many years. The last time I checked, even Volkswagen had finally stopped making rear-engined bugs in Brazil and Mexico. Porsche has favored mid engine cars for a very long time [see Paul Frère's article in the November R&T the November issue is a collector's item for Porsche Cayman owners]and with all of the changes in the world these days, don't think that Porsche has not closely checked the demographics of their customers. This has already happened to Cadillac and Lincoln. They had to invent totally new product for a new generation of customers. Porsche customers are different, of course. They are enthusiasts and young in heart. Long live Porsche sports cars; rear or mid-engined! Edited by - mpollard on 10/28/2005 10:33:27 PM

I agree... a porsche is a porsche. I love all of them from the 550 spyder to 911. Too bad 911 owners get offended when any other porsche joins the family (e.g. boxster, cayman, cayenne.... but so far no complaints about the carrera gt). I wonder why that is?

The comparisons ARE pointless, but its compared to a 911 because every other sports car is! I honestly feel that porsche has an opportunity to create another legendary vehicle, as long as they invest in it and race it like their other great cars!

Buying a new car is an individuals personal choice, not always determined by cost or value for money. it may be argued (by Porsche) the puchasing a 911 is aspirational, well Ihave been there, boxster s, 996, and more recently a997. Just sold the 997( a great car) and ordered Cayman S (artic silver, tiptronic, sat nav, phone,chrono, blk leather heated spts seats, park assist, leather wheel, 18' standard wheels, xenons),as I believe it will be one of the best and most versatile coupe ever produced by Porsche. My order is December build January delivery ( I hope)

Interesting thread, K-Man S, though like others I'm not sure about applying logic. If, however, you want to do that, then surely the line runs from Boxster S to 997 Cabrio and Cayman S to 997 Coupe? You might then even out the price per bhp and 0-60 time!!

We wouldn't be buying a Porsche if either costor performance, in isolation, were the selection factors. No, we are buying what we believe is a mystic combination of overall performance, history and sex appeal. It's all about esthetics. That's what ought to unite <u>all</u> Porsche owners and lovers, no matter what model they own or lust after. People who debate which model has the most 'Poscheness' are wasting their time./fckeditor/editor/images/smiley/MWPX/thumbsup.gif

True indeed. I just ran K-man S's formula several times and the results kept coming back the same. No, the winner wasn't Corvette Z06. As it turns out, anyone who doesn't buy the new Murray 20 hp lawn tractor is a complete idiot. K-man, what happened to those Chiefs????

Surely there must be websites dedicated to racing lawn tractors? Didn't Tim the tool man Taylor have a supercharged or turbo tractor for just such as purpose? Chiefs did what I expected them to do and are on track to meet but not exceed my expectations as usual.