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THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHBest technique and scope for "Bore Scoping"
Leading reported evidence
Clean fresh oil
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Read evidence and context
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Suggestion · Original poster
From a little soot to heavy sludge, from a little plastic bits of different colors to melted plastic parts from over-heating, from no metalic particles to huge amounts of metal parts, from little pieces of silicone to large gobs of silicone , some springs, clips and other odd or foreign objects.., water, gas, and antifreeze, of course what I like to see is NOTHING but clean fresh oil ..
Leading evidence: 'Clean fresh oil' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Clean fresh oil' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Suggestion
doesn't take a lot to seal a perfectly flat clean surface.
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Suggestion
Skip's method is a good option, but it is still a good idea to drop the sump on any engine you are inspecting, especially during a PPI.
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Suggestion · Original poster
I have mentioned this several times before but the word just doesn't get spread very well.....I keep seeing the recommended Bore scope being either from the Sump or from the spark plugs holes..
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Suggestion
My oil change routine on m96 is to always remove sump plate, then have a detailed look around for any harbingers of the future.
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Clean fresh oil
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
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Suggestion · Original poster
From a little soot to heavy sludge, from a little plastic bits of different colors to melted plastic parts from over-heating, from no metalic particles to huge amounts of metal parts, from little pieces of silicone to large gobs of silicone , some springs, clips and other odd or foreign objects.., water, gas, and antifreeze, of course what I like to see is NOTHING but clean fresh oil ..
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0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion · Original poster
I have mentioned this several times before but the word just doesn't get spread very well.....I keep seeing the recommended Bore scope being either from the Sump or from the spark plugs holes..
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Suggestion · Original poster
Right.....I have been thinking that with bank 2 having higher heat, and higher side loading thrust, and bore scoring being a not immediate failure but a long term failure, that using a higher film strength quality synthertic oil ( 5w-50+) would be my recommendation..II see no reason for using a 40 W except for gas mileage..I already have data that a 50W oil will help tremendously in oil pressure stabilization on the Track...( keeps more oil in the sump when the temps get high)
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Suggestion · Original poster
Here is my newest Bore Scope I just got and using the proceedure to just remove the access plug for the wrist pins then you can get a good look at the bottoms of cyl 4-5-6 in just minutes without even draining the oil...
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36 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
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I have mentioned this several times before but the word just doesn't get spread very well.....I keep seeing the recommended Bore scope being either from the Sump or from the spark plugs holes..
Here is my newest Bore Scope I just got and using the proceedure to just remove the access plug for the wrist pins then you can get a good look at the bottoms of cyl 4-5-6 in just minutes without even draining the oil...
The Bore Scope is a Vevor brand and has a 6mm lens with "articulating head" and cost about $100 ....( yes it's made in China like most everything now) ..Has a 5 inch screen a 1 meter length probe and 8x zoom and 3 light brighteess for the LED...Very clear picture and automatic focus...
Here is a video of the whole proceedure in just a few minutes... and a pic of the acccess port for the wrist pins.. :
Note the picture is upside down, the engine is on a stand. It is an engine I bought years ago for $2500 has 100k miles... was a good running engine was only pulled because the shop was doing a wild body kit and engine swap and had no need for the engine... I just bought to have around as a "just incase" I actally have 2 m96/01s on engines stands, this one and a fresh rebuilt one I've had for 17 years "just in case."...
You Tube
You Tube
This is a nice easy option. I did try it after you initially told me about it a while back. Worked great and was MUCH easier. My borescope doesn’t have the articulating head, so in my case I was somewhat limited, but still got a good glimpse.
Pt3, Very nice... I'll try that soon, thanks for sharing.
I don't care for scoping from underneath in the sump. Maybe if i had the $$$$ snapon scope then I could actually see whats going on in there good enough to satisfy me to make a correct call on bore score. Ya, suppose if bore score was real bad it would easily be apparent. But a mild case with a few scores here and there, not so easy for me to see. Not to mention the contortions needed to get at all cylinders sufficiently to see the complete condition while getting oil dripped on the lens and me.
Ya, the pin plug method seems much better.
Skip's method is a good option, but it is still a good idea to drop the sump on any engine you are inspecting, especially during a PPI. You'd be surprised what people have found in the sump on running engines that had no symptoms.
Nice job! Nice borescope too. Looks to be cheaper than the one I got, which has an articulating head but needs a smartphone for a screen.
Amazon
Amazon
@Charles Navarro
absoluty !!! Looking at whats in the Sump is the best way to get a look into the whole heart of the engine , and so much can be learned about the engine as a whole from that view...
My favorite thing to do on an "unknown engine"...
Yeah...at first I wasn't crazy at having the screen as a removable part of the tool and 32g Micro Memory card for the video's and pictures...You have to pop out the memory card and place it in a thumb drive reader USB to transfer to laptop or post them......But that is just so easy and everything stays together that after I used it, I realy like it that way..
My oil change routine on m96 is to always remove sump plate, then have a detailed look around for any harbingers of the future. Its only a handful of bolts the electric ratchet makes short work of.
Then clean it all up nice. A very little sealer tacked up with my fingers in a quantity that never seeps/squeezes out at the seam. doesn't take a lot to seal a perfectly flat clean surface. I've tried to explain that unsuccessfully to many other techs that squeeze out a bead all around a part and slap it together...
I look to see what it will tell me.....
I've seen so much when looking in M96 sumps. From a little soot to heavy sludge, from a little plastic bits of different colors to melted plastic parts from over-heating, from no metalic particles to huge amounts of metal parts, from little pieces of silicone to large gobs of silicone , some springs, clips and other odd or foreign objects.., water, gas, and antifreeze, of course what I like to see is NOTHING but clean fresh oil ..
Thanks for sharing the video. Is this method only possible for the 4-6 bank? I�ve scoped my engine both from the plug holes and the sump. Sump was difficult access and plug holes don�t tell the full story. Would you describe your subject engine as �bore scored�?
I don't worry about Bank 1 cyl 1-2-3 .....yes it only works for Bank 2 cyl 4-5-6...every time I have seen any scoring on bank 1 it also had scoring on bank 2 so....
Bank 1 has three things going for it...1 . the water pump and inlet from the radiator is on that side so bank 1 get coolant first.....2 the Thrust side of the cylinder is the bottom side on the exhaust side and has gravity fore to help lubricate it....3... the piston pin is offset .5mm to the intake side which lowers thrust forces on the cylinder...
Bank 2 has 4 strikes against it...1. the water pump and inlet from the radiator is on the other bank so the coolant has to pass through the Sump to get to bank 2 which heated it up.. 2 the oil heat exchanger is mounted on the bank 2 side and transfers the hot oil heat to the coolant on that side.. 3 ..the thrust side of the cylinder is the upper/top/intake side and gravity force works against keeping lubrication on it.. 4 .. the piston offset is .5mm to the intake side which increses the thrust load because the thrust load on Bank 2 is on the intake side...( Porsche did not make the pistons bank specific) ...
So in light of all that I don't worry about bank 1 unless something specificaly directs me there.
No that engine would not be considered as bore scored....those small scratches are probably from a failing IMSB that was caught very early but the debris did some damage,or just some silicone particles that have came loose from the Lokasil and made a light scratch as it washed out and into the oil and drained .....
thanks guys, I feel like I am so busey but it is just old age because I don't get anywhere near as much done in the same amount of time as I used to which is frustrating ...But the feedback and satisfaction is the only reason I keep doing it....
I will second that we never see bore scoring on bank one without bank two already being horribly scored. That's not to say you might find some sort of other damage or wear caused by something being ingested, but scoring on bank one without bank two is not likely.
Right.....I have been thinking that with bank 2 having higher heat, and higher side loading thrust, and bore scoring being a not immediate failure but a long term failure, that using a higher film strength quality synthertic oil ( 5w-50+) would be my recommendation..II see no reason for using a 40 W except for gas mileage..I already have data that a 50W oil will help tremendously in oil pressure stabilization on the Track...( keeps more oil in the sump when the temps get high)
FWIW-
I DO pay attention to your "pearls of wisdom" and keep track (copy URL) in a file with reference to whatever iti s, like Borescore, etc.
I fully understand about the "not getting as much done in same amount of time", it just happens. I do something on pcar, book time maybe 2 hours?, and knock htat task out in a simple 3-5 hours or more. Installing a UAOS/TD may take me a few days, it doesn't matter. My house garage has QJ and doesn't charge me Pcar-Tax-Labor-Rate$$$$ extra if I let pcar sit there in pieces or whatever. Time marches on.
@Porschetech3
I appreciate what you write and learn a lot. Continue with info threads, even quiet non-responders pay attention. TIA.
YMMV
@Siberian14
Thanks man.....Us old guys that have "been there done that & got the T-Shirt" on a lot of different fronts need a good reason to even get up in the morning
With a LOT of my childhood Hero's dying off like Hulk Hogan and Val Kilmer ect...I often wonder when my number will be called....
