Values and Market for 996s

I've been [reluctantly] trying to sell my MY99 996 C4 for a couple of months but found the seller's market to be awful. No one's buying off autotrader. The only market that seems active is ebay where prices are unbelievably low. The attached pic is not my car but typical of my competition. You'll see it went for £8700. I've seen some really good cars go for less than £8k, way below the valuations of 11k. After a three week add on autotrader without a sniff I tried an ebay classified add and got one offer of £9k within days, which, due to the reserve of £9500 I'd set was automatically declined. This is now starting to feel like a very good offer! I know this time of year is flat but it is dead. I've taken my car off the market for now and will try again in the spring. If you're a buyer at the moment you can afford to be really, really picky but if you're selling you need to reset your expectations or have a very, very good car.

looks like a lot of car for less than £10k

Location and a bit of luck required. One of my region's members advertised his 1998 996 C2 on Autotrader and sold it in 4 hours! Asking price was £11k and accepted offer of £10k. It was an extremely nice example with FSH etc.

You do need some luck. That was a decent price for the C2.

Yep! That car had no reserve. I bet the seller was in tears.

Check this one out. £7900 for a '99 C4 [ ]

I don't think it's specific to 996s. Most vehicles drop from one segment of the market into the next as time goes by. Given that the cars can easily chalk up £1000+ bills the market for older ones will naturally be a bit weak. I'd say pre-facelift, 3.4 Tip and C4, like the one mentioned, is not exactly a hand of aces. C2 manual with good spec and the right colour combo will always do better. eBay has rather taken the market from Autotrader as the latter have pushed advertising prices too high. Pistonheads seems to be selling cars too, but, as ever, pricing needs to be right. The wording of the ad and the area of the country can make a difference. A car with a decent ad, plenty of bills to support history, that's the kind of thing that will stand out. Good luck with the sale.

I've been watching 996 prices plummet the past few years, however, it's only natural. There are probably a good amount of sub 10k cars that sound great but probably have found their way into the wrong hands and have some nasty hidden or underlying issues to contend with. Most of the cheapest adds I see come from either people who say they can't afford to keep it any more, or from traders / garages that aren't in the know with 996's sell average cars and someone has just likely chopped it in because of a costly issue. The problem with this is that other genuine sellers with good cars see these cheap adds and think that they need to compete and lower their prices. Buyers looking at the market are given a false expectation of the value of a 996 and what they can purchase one for., moving inquiries away from some of the nicer motors to the 'bargain' cars. I bought mine a few years ago for what seemed a bit of a bargain price as an example, it looked pretty mint, had FSH and checked out. However it soon became apparent that there were some 'hidden' issues that did not crop up on testing, most noticeably the crank sensor that I diagnosed (after about two weeks of pulling the car apart) that was causing the car to strand me after prolonged periods of running. The fault didn't give any codes and sent me on a wild goose chase over all of the fueling and ignition system. Now, I am tempted to say that the reason it was cheaper than others is because the seller knew full well of the problem, couldn't get it diagnosed or sorted and decided to part ways. Lucky me, £125 part from Porsche and a couple of weeks of hard work and she was perfect! Still I bought her as a 'base' to do the things I wanted to and although I've spent a good few thousand on her in 'improvements' I think it worked out, but others won't be so lucky. Someone on a limited budget may easily buy a 'cheap' 996 and as my grandfather used to say, pay 'cheap - dear' or not have the money set aside to fix the car and it becomes even more neglected - it's amazing what a few coats of wax and a well worded add can look like! I still don't have any plans on selling my 996. I'm still really happy with her, true, I have thought about possibly 'upgrading' in the past, but I still get the experience I want, the look and everything else from mine, so I'm just going to keep looking after her until all the others have rotted or been sent to the big scrap heap in the sky. She'll probably be worth twice as much in the next ten years, but hopefully I will still keep her I would say that you should stick to your guns, if you are in no rush and you have a realistic price in mind given the condition and the market then you have no reason to get involved with nor fuel the low-priced market war! Cheers!

I have to say, i was also on the verge of upgrading to a turbo about twelve months ago. However, i have been looking for a genuine white convertible. Very hard to find it seems. I was totally shocked to find that this particular colour seems to carry a very high price tag. I have two concerns. 1. I am reluctant to let mine go for what seems to be very little. 2. How long will it be before the bottom drops out of the market for the turbo version? Not sure what to do next!!!! Still, cant complain, after all its still a fantastic car.

The reality is that there must be a broad price range covering poor, average and good examples - as there is with every other Porsche once it has a few years under it's belt. Just because a couple of cars have sold for peanuts doesn't mean that's all any 996 is worth - although the scare-mongering ensures that they are generally remarkable value for money. If you're not desperate to sell, hang in there for a price you are happy with. FWIW I don't see the market for Turbo's plunging anytime soon - as we all know, they don't suffer the maladies affecting other 996's

No, they don't - however from bitter experience of selling what was in reality a very good car - they suffer from a huge internet fuelled hysteria which makes the buyers believe in a huge array of issues which will take many thousands to correct - which is far from the truth in terms of both the issues and cost. I believe turbo buyers are somewhat unrealistic in their expectations for what is a 10 year old car selling for 20% of its original cost...some of the things thrown at me included: "A hose clip is missing, it will cost £300 to replace the hose". Fixed with a 50p hose clip. "The suspension has done 50,000 miles so will need to be completely replaced at a cost of £4000". The suspension was fine and 2 new drop links (£60) fixed the only noise. "The nuts on the turbos are rusty, so the turbos will have to be removed, refurbished, heat shields replaced at cost of £2000". They hang under the car, of course they rusty, but they are 100% functional. "The car has some stone chips and will require a full front end respray." The car had 2 stonechips which you would need a magnifying glass to find. "The car has evidence of having some paint in the past." Yep, a 10 year old car which has been resold by an OPC 3 times WILL have been painted. Same buyer as complained about not having painted the stonechips! "The heat shields are showing signs of rust." Again, a 10 year old part hanging under the car may show some surface rust...but again its 100% functional so no need to spend £500 replacing a working part. and the biggie.... "You have 10 ignitions in rev range 2, 48 hours ago.....your car is worthless"........

Sounds like you were visited by a bunch of chancers who wanted a good car for stupid money - or they enlisted the services of a PPI who was out to find any fault they could, then exagerate the cost of repair. Judging by your list of "faults", I'd have been happy to buy your car at the going rate!

Interesting thread. After a short and fruitless attempt at advertising privately, I part-exchanged (after much agonising and soul-searching) my '98 C2 last September at the same local dealer I bought it from in 2007 and got £10,000, which was by far the best p/x offer I received. He spent upwards of £1,000 on it, fitting a sports exhaust plus sorting out a few niggles. He decided to get out of the used car business earlier this year and liquidated his stock; to cut a long story short I bought my C2 back in July this year for £7,000. Worked out well for me, but another illustration of how far values have fallen since I bought the car originally 5 years ago.

It was an OPC inspection - I would never allow one again....gives a disproportionately negative view of the car and doesn't benefit buyer or seller. I'm also hearing rumours of a number of "respected" independents who won't allow a particular well-know Porsche inspector come near their cars as it results in a no-sale 100% of the time. This is a real blight on the sale of turbos and I can see the point where they hit £15K or less for no reason other than unfounded market hysteria.

I can't ever see the turbos hitting the lows of 15k ever, but can see in the near future that the cars will rise in the next few years. There are some great cars out there, but as there are also some bad ones where people have just bought a fast car opposed to someone buying it as a boyhood dream, and the love of the marque, and have therefore neglected them, not cared for them, not done the work that needed doing and then tried flogging them on having compared them to other cars at similar ages, miles and colour etc. Just my views of the world on the turbo at the minute, but you could say that's cause I own one, but it's safe to say I won't be letting my beaut go anytime soon! Steve

Yes you have a point, but on the other hand if OPC sells a car like this they will have fixed all the faults, big or small. Otherwise they can't put any kind of guarantee on it. That's the gap between OPC and e-bay, and it is reflected in the price difference. Though there seems to be a very low "low" in the UK at the moment for Carreras. If I'm upgrading my car I always trade in and by from an OPC or high end independent, never waste time on the private market.

In an ideal world I would agree with you - but having seen first hand some of the stock the OPC sell when on the other end of the buying equation I'd say there are varying standards applied to the inspection depending on who would have to pay for the work.

I agree - misplaced faith. OPCs have been known to sell written off cars that have been repaired outside of the network and not disclose a word about it. Lucky for the owner there were tons of pictures of his smashed car splashed across the internet after he bought it.

Fair point, I guess there is varying quality to each center so a little knowledge and history about the ones you use is a good thing. If you find a good one, stick to it and get to know the guys there, chief mechanic, after sales manager etc.. We're usually in this game for the long run so nice and skilled people that you can trust can only make it better.

Interesting comments about the OPC inspection. The inspection of my car a few years ago came up with about 3-4k needing to be spent on it at an OPC. The list was: - Return steering clamp crack (and I quote) "possible new rack required" £1800+ - Quoted for FOUR new tyres, as the fronts and rears were not the same N rating pirellis (even though the front two matched perfectly and were listed on the sheet as having 7mm of tread, rears 5mm lol!) Price? £800 - Rear discs and pads slightly worn, another £600 - Oil bellow and Variocam 'sweating' another few hundred pound - headlight washers requiring adjustmet - Non OPC battery - Rear ARB bushes worn Can you seriously tell me that any of that was really warranted and it was justified to quote me such a high bill? I bought the car, ordered the variocam lids, oil bellow pipe and bushes from the OPC for about £50 and fixed half the list. The rear tyres went on for 3k and another year before I replaced them but the point being that the front were still at 5-6mm at that time! The rear brakes / pads I replaced two years later with Pagid / Textar combo myself for about £170.00 (they still had plenty of life in them but I wanted to change them while I had it off the road upgrading the suspension). And the big one - the low pressure return pipe. I put some weld in the small crack and two stainless clamps and forgot about it for three years and it is still perfect. Lots of people would have been scared away by that inspection which was all together silly in my book.

And just to reinforce the value (or lack of) from the inspection - the new owner just emailed me to say he had taken the car to his local OPC when he got home - showed them the list and basically gave them a blank cheque to fix the things that are wrong......the total bill...... £25 (yes, not a typo, the check over was so quick they only charged for some WD40). They questioned if the report came from the same car as all of the items mentioned were within normal wear/tear for the year of car and needed no attention at present. I'm starting to think that the next time I sell a car I wouldn't allow an inspection anywhere except at my known local indie - that way I know the inspection is fair and isn't being used to unfairly beat the price down over items which should be expected with with the age/mileage of the car.

That sounds about right! True. I mean if I sold mine and someone wanted it checked at the same place and I refused, it would look as though I was trying to 'hide' something. All of those items have been changed apart from the return pipe clamp, but I can guarantee they would probably have something to say about it and quote a silly number. That said though, when I sell a motor people are always welcome to check out my posts on a club forum and the full file of pictures of work done and receipts I have.

Playing devils advocate here but surely anyone with half a brain would look at that list and ignore most of it but OPC will inspect to "their" level, which I assume would be a warrantyable one (even though the car may not even be eligible). Tyres, brakes, headlight washer adjustment and battery are almost irrelevant. The rest to me would warrant some further investigation as you did. Greig, as for limiting inspection opportunities surely that will reduce the pool of potential purchasers quite considerably - not everyone has the mechanical knowledge to be comfortable buying a car like this without independent assistance. Equally only allowing the indie you use to inspect it would also raise eyebrows - I did that once, use the sellers garage for the inspection - with hindsight the results were "interesting" and not necessarily in my favour.

I think this is true, as I mentioned it would seem like the seller was trying to hide something. Don't get me wrong, I've had some real good experiences with the OPC in Swindon, the parts department have been fantastic and customer service is good. But you do have to take some of what the service guys say with a pinch of salt - I recall some time ago when I mentioned the somewhat mechanical change from first to second when cold to a service tech that was there when I picked up some parts. He said that it was a load of tosh that it is normal and there should be no quirks on the car. Knowing that nearly everyone that has had an old 996 says the same I just ignored his comment to be honest. I guess they don't service 996's every day any more and are more familiar with people throwing their newer Porsches at them with blank cheques!

You can't be far from me then Steve. I'm stood at work in the centre of Swindon as we "speak"

Oh really? I'm near the Mini plant or old pressed steel works

Yes, you are correct but having been stung once I simply won't go the route of having an OPC inspection again - if it loses buyers then so be it. In all honesty the experience has been bad enough that I certainly won't buy any modern porsche again simply due to the resale nightmare. As for your other comment about people with half a brain ignoring most of the items on the list, this is not my experience - as I said, I was beaten over the head with a hose clip and the fact the car had and hadn't been painted - the intelligent and honest buyer who can take a balanced view is few and far between. I would partially attribute the vast drop in residual prices of modern porsche to this growing trend for expensive inspections which are overly critical without an explanation of the real impact of the items they are picking up on (such as rusty bolts/heatshields - why even mention this as its normal wear and tear on a car of that age).