Non Porsche Warranties

I have been looking for a different warranty to the OPC warranty due to new cost I am only really concerned about major components, engine, gearbox I don't live in the right area for the Hartech plan as i assume all work has to be carried out in the North West (Servicing, warranty work etc) Anyone have experience of the RAC Gold or Olympic warranties. It just seems like £1400 can buy you a lot of work each year at an Indy Any advice or ideas would be welcome Steve

Steve, I am also looking to replace the OPC warranty and am discovering that the 911 appears to be excluded from the listings of the warranty options I have looked at. I know Tesco have excluded the 911 in the past few weeks and it looks like there are several others. Have they been spooked by the Porsche price increase ? Was in the OPC this morning hoping to renew under the existing warranty at £895 but was unsuccessful; their systems only allow renewal up to 56 days in advance of the expiry date which in my case is 1 December. An attempt to bring the start date forward to within the 56 days was also rejected as renewal must be after the current warranty expires! So not very happy right now despite having not spent £895. At the moment it looks like its the new deal at £1450 or keep your fingers crossed and hope the engine holds together.

[ ] What ever you do I would strongly advise not to use Olympic Warranties, take al ook at the various forums and you'll see what I mean.

After much deliberation i have decided to go with warranty works when its due for renewal on 1st november. This is costing me £823 for three years (the third year is free if you pay up front for two) and covers most major components engine and electrics. I don't do lots of miles in the car but would like some peace of mind. if you're in the same boat it may be worth a look?

Has _anyone_ out there had any success with insurance-based 3rd party warrantees ? From my own personal experience - and that of a close friend - the ones we've used weren't worth the paper they were written on. They used all sorts of delaying tactics, required engineer inspections and then claim that failures are due to either a manufacturing defect or 'wear and tear'. I'd be very wary of putting my money outside of an OPC warranty or hartech type scheme. Also, be aware that some warranty companies put limits on either hourly rates or total value, which could exclude say and OPC replacing engine or gearbox. If anyone has had a good experience with a 3rd party warranty, then please share it.

Julie - as a follow on to my reply above - check the small print first. Their policy booklet wasn't downloadable, (suspicious?), but from other parts of their web site I gleaned the following ... A) 36 months Platinum (£2500 claim limit) ... so, although engine and gearbox are covered, you won't get a 996 engine or gearbox for that price, fitted, incl VAT. B) Q: Do I have to have the warranty book stamped? A: No, but we recommend that you get the book stamped each time it's serviced. This is because if you have a claim the service history may need to be checked and if it's recorded in the book then it can save us having to phone you to check its service history. Always keep the receipts too. Means: If you miss a service by a day or mile, your claim will be rejected. C) Q Can I claim for a broken part that was there before I bought the policy? A No. The car must be in sound condition before you take the warranty out. Means: They could well (& probably will) tell you that your cracked cylinder liner was due to ovalling and weakening of the liner over a long period of time (e.g. before the warranty was taken out) and hence not covered. D) Q: Do I have to use a garage recommended by you to have the vehicle repaired? A: Repairs should be made by your supplying garage or a garage of your choice who is willing to work for our repair rate of £58.75 (inc VAT) - You doubt you'll get an OPC to work for £50+VAT, so you'll be searching around for a cut price indi, I guess. E) You will be required to authorise the garage to investigate the fault to determine what has failed and the relevant costs involved. - Watch out here. Investigation costs could be substantial - for which you have to pay for - From my experience, this means they are not re-imbursed by the warranty company, even if the fault is found. Personally, I wouldn't touch with it with the proverbial bargepole.

Seems to me that the only reason 90% of people take the OPC warranty is to protect themselves from a total engine failure. Sure, a transmisssion problem can be expensive, but the transmissions are rebuildable, and the parts are available. A genuine Porsche exchange engine will cost around £7500 for a 3.6 and £9000 for a 3.4 (inc VAT, without PCGB discount). The exchange engines are remarkably complete, and even come filled with Mobil 1. It's around a 7 hour job to replace the engine, and a decent indy would charge around £350-400. What would make sense is for 10 people to get together and put around £800 each in a pot. If nobody has a failure in the first year you would be quids in. Second year, if there haven't been any disasters, you could contribute, say, £500 each to the pot, and then maybe include transmission failures. If there still haven't been any failures after 2 years, maybe reduce the "premium" again, and cover more. On the second anniversary of the scheme, you could potentially have £15-16000 in the fund (which would be nearly enough to cover two engine failures). Membership of the scheme could be transferrable to a new owner should you sell the car. Members leaving the scheme could perhaps take a percentage of their contributions with them. It's taking a gamble, of course, but what are the chances of more than 1 in 10 engines exploding in the first year? Just a thought.

... Sounds like a nice business you're lining up there ... "Richard Hamilton 996 Insurance Services Ltd" ?? I agree the main reason I took mine out was for catastrophic failure, but it has also virtually paid for itself in terms of what has been fixed. 2 radiators, 2 air con condensors and door lock. Interesting that a 3.6 engine is cheaper than a 3.4. If a 3.4 engine goes bang, can you slot in a 3.6 instead. Is is just the bore/stroke that has been changed rather than the physical block ?

911 Sport in Horncastle recommend www.autoprotect.net - can't find any details about value of cover etc though without registering.

I've no intention of starting an insurance company! Just an observation about how it might work out, even with a small number of contributors, and after a while could expand to cover other items. If, let's say after year two you are paying £400 instead of £1400ish, that's £1000 towards 'warranty' work. If you had taken your car to an independent, instead of an OPC, would it really have virtually paid for itself?? Also, once the scheme is sufficiently funded (assuming the best) you might not have to make further contributions until a member does have a disaster. No, you can't swap a 3.6 for a 3.4. The exchange price is based on returning exactly the same type of engine. They seem to "subsidise" the later cars - I guess they figure that after 6+years you have got your money's worth out of a 3.4. Also there are other technical issues - they use a different DME for a start.

Well back to being totally confused! There are lots of posts about how folk have had problems with the opc warranty too. My TVR was covered by an independant and apart from the issue around the labour costs they paid up directly to the garage with no problems. Also have to remember labour costs from my OPC now have 50% discount. I guess you get what you pay for. Its all a risk game. This would be the last year i could cover the car with the £892 warranty (just received the renewal invitation) and stilll haven't signed on the dotted line for either.......

[ ] I like Richards idea and who better to organise it than us in the PCGB, I imagine that there are quite a few people in the club who purchase OPC warranties and if there were enough members then it will be possible to negotiate a deal with the OPC's for parts and labour. It could be a not for profit organisation and there would be the need for a "legal beagle" to draw up the articles.

I also think Richard's idea is fantastic, a warranty scheme run by enthusiasts for enthusiasts. However, with regard to the COC, how happy do you think Porsche GB would be if an institution it was keeping afloat (PCGB) decided to stab it in the back and compete with it's warranty business by forming it's own scheme? I doubt this could ever be sanctioned by PCGB.[ ]

Just to register my vote in favour of a scheme along the lines suggested by Richard. I also believe that this is just the sort of thing that PCGB should be taking on board, but I also fear that Rodney is correct in his reading of the situation. If there were enough support out there I would be happy to contribute to an initial evaluation of a self-help scheme.

I would be happy to consider joining when my new baby comes of age.

I don't think you would be able to get the blessing of the club, as it would be contrary to the Contract of Co-operation. (Yet another stranglehold Porsche Cars have on the club). IMO it would need to be done as a Gentleman's Agreement between those involved, and I would suggest that it could be a simple Agreement between participants. This should give details of exactly what is offered, and state that there is no guarantee of the fund meeting the demands of the scheme if it all goes t*ts-up with two blow-ups in year one. I personally think that it should be limited to say, 10-12 members, and have one administrator. That one person obviously has to be a trustworthy individual, and there are the implications of one person holding a potentially sizeable fund. Like I say, to do anything in the club's name is a no-no, but I think it would be OK to use the forum to outline the scheme, and to get the participants together. However, it would be best to keep the nitty-gritty to a personal email ring. As to my involvement, I'm really not sure. I've always self-insured my Porsches, and although it's a risk (as it is with any car), it's one I'm prepared to take and I've been lucky so far. Therefore, I wouldn't contribute to a place in the scheme myself. Also, the Turbo engine is totally different to the M96 996 engine, and less susceptible to failures. Bigger stakes, but longer odds, as it were. I didn't make the suggestion because I wanted to be involved, but more because there seems to be a huge sway of opinion against the new OPC warranty. Also, with early 996s now falling out of the OPC scheme, 3rd party warranties having claims limits, and others that are fairly useless, there might be enough people here that would get together to make it work. No doubt the 'legal eagles' here will tut-tut, but I would be interested to hear their comments about the legalities of the proposal. Whereas I am the sort of bloke who will work on the basis of pure trust, I think that it might be difficult to find 10 people like that. I would be happy to help on the technical side, estimate costs, and perhaps have an input into a draft Agreement if required, but I'd want free membership to the scheme to administer it!! [ ] [ ] I have been on this forum for almost exactly 4 years. In that time I've seen loads of threads on RMS, Coolant Tanks, Aircon Rads, Coil Packs, Door locks, etc, etc. But I can only recall one total engine failure, that of poor Rob Kellock. Please correct me if I'm wrong about that. Realistically, there are probably (and this completely off the top of my head) about 50 forum members who post regularly on the 996 forum, and in those 4 years maybe another 100-150 have come and gone. That's good odds in my view, especially as many newcomers only join the forum when they have a problem. (Not that I am condemning that). I reckon it could work, but it might be difficult to get off the ground "" the key is in finding the administrator/stakeholder, and making sure that it can be done on a handshake without an (expensive) legal contract.

I don't want to pour cold water on this idea - as I said I'd be interested in helping set up a self help scheme but one of the biggest issues that would need to be addressed is that of moral hazard. For example how is the threat of one or more people signing up just after hearing a few odd noises coming from the engine or noticing a sharp increase in fluid consumption going to be dealt with? Porsche attempt to do this with their 111 point check and in future will require 3 month ownership but a small group of individuals might find the policing of membership motivation more difficult.

If the scheme only covers engine failures to begin with, then I don't believe you get any warning of impending issues that would allow for a moral hazard issue to arise. The main cause of an engine blow-up is a failed IMS, and they tend to just 'go'.

I'm a nice trustworthy bloke and I'd like a spot please. ... need to get my 996 first I suppose but I'm sure we could have a currently topical initiation "ceremony" whereby an independent examination could be arranged prior to joining? Hartech or SportsandClassic could probably oblige in the NW and others around the country could be identified? I think it'd be nice for members to register their abridged details within the website too so that when, like me, you're faced with a list of available cars it'd be possible to view the history of those owned by other members which are likely to be looked after (or pups like my wife's Cayenne - today anyway!) regards, Mike

Richard, just on the point on total engine failure, a very good friend of mine has had exactly that. A 996 Turbo no less. After going back to Porsche for a replacement cost, Circa £40k ! I recall - he ended up buying a second hand GT2 engine and spending about £20k including fitting. Mine is in the extended warranty scheme, I have a decision to make in the next four months and with the huge price increase I will certainly be very interested in another scheme - keep those fingers crossed.

Call me cynical but a means of confirming that the IMS didn't go the day before joining would still be needed. Again call me cynical and no slur intended on the above mentioned organisations but at £40k there is a big incentive to attempt to "persuade" an initiation examiner that all is as it should be. Sorry for the negative comments (I am a glass half empty type of guy) but I think it is important that these types of issues are addressed early on.

I think it would be very hard to pull the wool over someone's eyes if your IMS had failed. Start the engine and it will sound like a bag of nails and oil (if there's any left) will pour out. What might be something worth considering however is if/once the scheme had enough members signed up that they got Porsche or Peter Morgan etc to do a bulk inspection deal on all the cars.

Not sure where that £40k figure came from, but a Porsche exchange engine for the Turbo is £15600+VAT. It would have to be a mega-disaster to take that route, as it is more likely that the engine could be rebuilt at significantly less cost. Perhaps TTs and GT3s should be excluded until the scheme had funds enough to support them. I'll add this to what I've said so far, as it was part of a reply I made to someone who contacted me directly on the subject: My thought was for a group of members to get together to spread the risk of a total engine failure, because that's why most people take the OPC warranty. By a relatively small group of people getting together it could work fairly easily and efficiently. Also, having had a few years chatting with forum members over the last few years a camaraderie develops, and there are many members who I feel are the right types to co-operate in this way. These people are familiar with each other, they look after their cars properly, and if they had any problems with their engines, we would all know about it because they would have be straight on the forum. I also believe that if it was posted around the various other Porsche forums there would be a huge interest. It would be a major administrative exercise and you would have no knowledge of the types of people applying to join. In fact, it could probably made into quite a lucrative business, but that wasn't the intention. It would also need to be a legal entity if it got to that stage. I really wanted to plant the seed, not see it to fruition, as I have enough on my plate right now. I was hoping that someone might pick up the idea and run with it.

If the worst happens, I'm planning on an exchange Autofarm 3.4 with the upgrade mods. £7650+vat (£8988). So far, having not had a warranty for four years, I've paid for almost half of it - less the cost of a MAF and a minor oil leak, all sorted for £notalot by my Indy. Hopefully, I won't need to pay for the rest!

Rodney, I don't mean to labour this, but the point I was making is that it would be necessary to employ someone to confirm that the engine didn't sound like a bag of nails. However, I also understand where Richard is coming from and accept that a small group of individuals known to one another might be able to proceed on the basis of trust.

Richard, I think you're right. My car must be very special [ ]. Given that the failures are relatively rare, it's all the more galling that Porsche didn't offer me some goodwill for a car at 42000 miles with full Porsche service history...

The idea of a group fund for engine-only replacement is a nice one, but I can't help feeling it could become a legal nightmare unless everything is tied down at the start. What happens if person X wants their car fixed and indi A, yet person Y, wants theirs done at OPC B (at higher cost). Then person Z points out that a recon engine from C is cheaper than from D etc. etc. The only way I could see this working without tears is if it was administered by a reputable indi who 1) checks the car first, 2) is always used for any replacment engines and c) acts as a 'claims assesor' should the worst happen. Maybe a business opportunity for Wrighttune or similarly, centrally located indi ??

Yes, it needs to be tied down from the start - perhaps a claim limit of £8000 to begin with. That would give someone the opportunity to choose what they want done, and where - be it a Porsche exchange engine at an indy or OPC, or a Hartech or Autofarm rebuild. There have been 10 contributors to this thread with 'standard' 996 engines. If those 10 said they would take a place in the scheme, IMO they could all be trusted to join without any inspection. We all know these cars and owners, and know they are cared for properly. The whole thing would be based on trust, and each would have to understand the implications of the worst case scenario of the scheme - two failures in year one. The proposal is to spread the risk - but it isn't a guarantee.

It's a great idea Richard and i would be very interested in a scheme like this. We could also say repairs under £100 are not included to stop overloading the club with lots of claims. i.e. for things like coil packs etc We still haven't got a list of potential third party warranties though Steve

Well wayed up all the pros and cons and still decided to go with warranty works. RE the questions which were raised about it earlier on the forum, some investigation reveals: a) wouldn't replace the engine etc but £2500k would help towards the cost rather than no warranty at all and hopefully porsche is relatively reliable and this doesn't happen too often(?) b) No hassle getting book stamped at the same time as the service book stamped. c) policy wording allows for leeway on service being carried out both mileage and date(the booklet is now available to download) d) opc newcastle charge £54.00 plus vat per hours labour for cars 7 yrs old or over and the warranty company are happy for you to pay the top up to use the garage of your choice. e) guess the investigation cost applies to most warranties All warranties taken are risk limitation so nothing will be infallible, for me i think this provides some peace of mind for most occurrences although i accept its not foolproof. Unless someone can suggest a better deal at a reasonable cost in the North East then i guess this is the answer for me. Did raise the question of the cost of the new warranty at our last R3 meet where OPC was represented and they said it was £1100 for 996 and boxsters to renew but no doubt the figure given on this forum constitutes the cost of something else added in - the 111 point check maybe?

Julie ... well done for looking into those points. I'm not generally a sceptical person, but have had fingers burnt with 3rd party warranties before. I hope it all works out OK - do report back how it pans out, as it would be good to find out if there are reputable insurers out there. Re the warranty price - from what I have gleaned elsewhere, the price is 1350 GBP. This comprises, 1150 for the warranty (no VAT) and 172ish+VAT for the inspection. It seems that some OPCs have already started discounting the inspection element, or even absorbing the cost of that themselves - hence with shopping around it _should_ be possible to get it for 1150. However, that still doesn't eliminate the issue highlighted in another thread I started about them excluding any self or 3rd party maintenance.