GT4 RS breaks cover then... - Page 3 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Thoughts. Edited by Porsche911R on Wednesday 11th September 17:43

Interesting. It'll be expensive! https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-fra...

That looks the b ks. What we thinking PDK, more aero and a bit more power?

Yep, PDK only I reckon.

Spec guess time 450bhp PDK RS bonnet with race brake cooling. 30kg saved weight. Yes please.

Porsche911R said: Spec guess time 450bhp PDK RS bonnet with race brake cooling. 30kg saved weight. Yes please. Im with you, would be unreal

Price? £100k base.

Porsche911R said: Spec guess time 450bhp PDK RS bonnet with race brake cooling. 30kg saved weight. Yes please. Absolute beast

More aero and imagine if they had the courage to fit the GT3 500bhp engine...…. They won't!

Very, very special car..Minimum £100K with circa 460PS and hopefully the PDKS from the GT3 and not the standard overdriven PDK..Its the only potential new Porsche i'd consider changing my 991.2GT3 RS in for. Factor in potentially £120K for a well specced car which is £60K less than my new RS pretty good value.

No need for the GT3 engine, all they need to do is unrestrict the torque of the 718 GT4 engine and fit PDK-S. Very, very special car? I think it's an important car and will break the mould, but will it be special enough? Edited by Twinfan on Wednesday 11th September 18:29

Will be easier to Drive as well , had a friend , a long term GT4 track day guy , move to a GT and found it a fair bit more challenging . Will be nice though , still like 911 , rear engine just for emotional reasons

Had no idea this was in the works! Same rear spolier as the GT3 mule so perhaps that wing is pretty close to real.....that's not great !

Taffy66 said: Very, very special car..Minimum £100K with circa 460PS and hopefully the PDKS from the GT3 and not the standard overdriven PDK..Its the only potential new Porsche i'd consider changing my 991.2GT3 RS in for. Factor in potentially £120K for a well specced car which is £60K less than my new RS pretty good value. That 'standard overdriven' dual clutch box seems to work well enough in the gt4 race car..... And I think one can be reasonably sure the 'specialness' factor of this car isn't going to be anything like the 991 RS.

My guess PDK 475PS plus weight saving with a WP Very cool car,the wing uprights look like there in camouflage at the mo! I’m sure the wing will look great in the flesh! Edited by Juno on Wednesday 11th September 19:31

I wonder how far the will stray away from the GT4 race car. The wing looks like that direction but the NACA duct's don't. Really curious to see where this is going

If that is real… I’d definitely want one based on the stated intention of the looks. Some nice little touches of Porsche flair. But as someone says… will there be space between a 718 GT4 and a lightly used 991.2 GT3 at the prices and the GT3 will always be ‘more car’ Performance wise this will likely be gapped to the 992 GT3, and after regular GT4 has finished. But still it’s a question of value for money and intended usage at that point.

Styling is a Boy racers wet dream, anyone over the age of 30 should know better. It's vulgar.

Dammit said: Styling is a Boy racers wet dream, anyone over the age of 30 should know better. It's vulgar. RS= race car.

Why's it got a number plate then.

Also an RS: And one of the best looking 911's due to the total lack of all the Halfords crap that afflicts the Cayman.

Taffy66 said: Very, very special car..Minimum £100K with circa 460PS and hopefully the PDKS from the GT3 and not the standard overdriven PDK..Its the only potential new Porsche i'd consider changing my 991.2GT3 RS in for. Factor in potentially £120K for a well specced car which is £60K less than my new RS pretty good value. With all the mods Have done, my GT4 stands me in at £112k ... accepted that I have all the parts I've removed that could be worth £15k ... subject to selling the nearly new PCCB's at a sensible price ! But for me the car is a kit that can always go back to standard. The key question for me is will it have a proper GT3 engine ? If it does it could command a close to GT3 price creating an either / or choice at this level .... I can't agree that I personally find the GT3 a harder car to drive than the GT4 ... particularly with RWS and the driver aids. P have worked very hard on this chassis ....

Dammit said: Styling is a Boy racers wet dream, anyone over the age of 30 should know better. It's vulgar. So do you think the styling of the 718 GT4 is vulgar? The main difference here is the wing which is likely to test different configurations and won't look like that in production spec. Interesting car, however if it is an RS unlikely to be in manual which is a shame

ChrisW. said: With all the mods Have done, my GT4 stands me in at £112k ... accepted that I have all the parts I've removed that could be worth £15k ... subject to selling the nearly new PCCB's at a sensible price ! But for me the car is a kit that can always go back to standard. The key question for me is will it have a proper GT3 engine ? If it does it could command a close to GT3 price creating an either / or choice at this level .... I can't agree that I personally find the GT3 a harder car to drive than the GT4 ... particularly with RWS and the driver aids. P have worked very hard on this chassis .... Almost certainly won't have a full fat GT3 engine. It will be pitched between GT4 and GT3 so around 450PS and £100k plus options plus Brexit surcharge. OPC phones will be red hot again tomorrow!

browngt3 said: Interesting car, however if it is an RS unlikely to be in manual which is a shame Why? I’d take PDK over manual any day of the week

Dammit said: Why's it got a number plate then. It's on the public highway and it's a legal requirement.

The sound will still be a bit disappointing? They're still hampered more with the 718 than the 992 in this department I'd expect.

It's a matter of personal taste whether you like wings, scoops, louvres, etc, but I'd have to say this is not a car I'd want to drive on the road.

Ructions said: browngt3 said: Interesting car, however if it is an RS unlikely to be in manual which is a shame Why? I’d take PDK over manual any day of the week Yes, we're all different and I would take a manual any day of the week which is why all my cars are manual. Thankfully Porsche GT department still give us a choice. However, not so when it comes to RS models

Looks interesting- what do we think on production numbers? Limited enough to have a plaque on the dashboard? Or just the usual ‘limited’ but we don’t really know how many units were produced...until the end of production?!

No stupid centrelocks I just noticed. That's a massive positive for the car imo....

people moan about a small wing on a track focused RS type car but go ga ga over the 993 RS any way the T flat 6 Cayman will be on offer I guess. GT3 for me has always stood for race car hence I disliked the T models I want my GT3 to look race like. Edited by Porsche911R on Thursday 12th September 08:08

Would take one if those over a GT4RS but its three times the price! I actually prefer the standard spoiler on the 993RS

nice, but what now? another 2 years of hype and speculation?

pete.g said: It's a matter of personal taste whether you like wings, scoops, louvres, etc, but I'd have to say this is not a car I'd want to drive on the road. Yeah, I agree, unless you're gonna spend alot of time on track. If not, my 17 year old self would love it!

Yes and then when you hit 60 , you do not care anymore what others think ..... use my GT3RS as a daily , with the added benefit that the speed restrictor ( Wife ) does not like being in it . Life is too short

This is a toy car for driving to and from a race track... to take it at face value. If you choose to drive it to Waitrose or McDonald Drive-Thru or to your normal Michelin-Starred establishment but then feel self conscious about it... you are the fool. Who care was someone else thinks... P just said it.... hunter 66 said: Life is too short

Absolutely, what others think is irrelevant, me included! Bravo to Porsche for giving us the choice. That's the motivation for earning money - choice!

Porsche911R said: Dammit said: Styling is a Boy racers wet dream, anyone over the age of 30 should know better. It's vulgar. RS= race car. It's far from a race car. I agree its horrid but maybe function over beauty, a more focused version of the GT4 that is faster on the road and track. Glad Porsche are doing it, but the 981 GT4 RS renders I saw were way more pleasing to the eye.

browngt3 said: Would take one if those over a GT4RS but its three times the price! I actually prefer the standard spoiler on the 993RS

Nice to see Porsche giving Cayman RS treatment. I hope they give it the same lump as GT3.

Life is too short... to drive an ugly sucker like that. Will be frustrating to drive on the road - too much power. But whatever floats your boat, it's always down to the individual's taste.

DJMC said: Will be frustrating to drive on the road - too much little power. . Edited for you....

DJMC said: Will be frustrating to drive on the road - too much power. It won't have too much power at all and that's not what this car is designed for anyway. It's for driving on track. Only driving it on the road is completely missing the point.

IMI A said: That is lovely! Slightly different sidelight/air inlets to the one in the first picture. I have the same on my 993C4S, probably an expensive option at the time knowing Porsche. Sorry for the geekery

race cars on the road look great imo

130R said: DJMC said: Will be frustrating to drive on the road - too much power. It won't have too much power at all and that's not what this car is designed for anyway. It's for driving on track. Only driving it on the road is completely missing the point. +1 and unfortunately, such is the way that they get 'allocated' now, too many of them will end up in the hands of those that will never take them on track!

boxsey said: +1 and unfortunately, such is the way that they get 'allocated' now, too many of them will end up in the hands of those that will never take them on track! It's the same for all GT cars - see the recent GT3 and GT3RS threads. Understandable in some ways I guess given the prices we're now talking about and the fights to actually get hold of a new one.

yep pointless to chat about it then as none of use will get one :-p. we will have to look at AndrewD AND Av185's when they post pics of theirs ;-) but that is the rub, very few people will be able to get the GT4 RS :-(

boxsey said: +1 and unfortunately, such is the way that they get 'allocated' now, too many of them will end up in the hands of those that will never take them on track! But the relatively hard cars to get like the 3rs and even the 2rs are relatively often seen in track. Certainly comparing the numbers delivered to those seen on track, my impression is that there's a higher % of those cars properly used than the rather more common gt3....

Maybe my perspective has changed but a i still can't see how a GT4 RS coming in at probs 1400kg is designed for track, its designed for road and some track. If it was designed for track only it would be a Clubsport race car. All RS cars are road cars which are more capable on track than there GT counter part. I'd go for a Lotus Exige 380 if I was a track rat that wanted a road legal car. All just my opinion of course.

JayK12 said: Maybe my perspective has changed but a i still can't see how a GT4 RS coming in at probs 1400kg is designed for track, its designed for road and some track. If it was designed for track only it would be a Clubsport race car. All RS cars are road cars which are more capable on track than there GT counter part. I'd go for a Lotus Exige 380 if I was a track rat that wanted a road legal car. All just my opinion of course. +1. This RS or GT = 'race car' thing is nonsensical.

Yes race car is RSR , R or Cup , but the new GT cars and new tyre technology they are surprisingly fast on track when pushed a bit . Edited by hunter 66 on Thursday 12th September 13:59

JayK12 said: Maybe my perspective has changed but a i still can't see how a GT4 RS coming in at probs 1400kg is designed for track, its designed for road and some track. If it was designed for track only it would be a Clubsport race car. All RS cars are road cars which are more capable on track than there GT counter part. I'd go for a Lotus Exige 380 if I was a track rat that wanted a road legal car. All just my opinion of course. Yes road legal and track, not a race car. Why would an Exige 380 be more capable on track just because it is lighter though? An Exige is lighter than a GT3 RS as well but it can't keep pace with one on bigger circuits.

JayK12 said: Maybe my perspective has changed but a i still can't see how a GT4 RS coming in at probs 1400kg is designed for track, its designed for road and some track. If it was designed for track only it would be a Clubsport race car. All RS cars are road cars which are more capable on track than there GT counter part. I'd go for a Lotus Exige 380 if I was a track rat that wanted a road legal car. All just my opinion of course. 380 is a bit slow on track, high C of G from that fat engine and heat soke sadly.... even the 430Cups are not posting fast times because that engines just stuck up way too high in the chassis. I do a agree that some thing like a 410 Sport is more a fun car to drive though on the road than any Porker. But come track a stock GT3 will be flashing you over !!!

isaldiri said: +1. This RS or GT = 'race car' thing is nonsensical. monoballs and downforce is race car, it's not needed on the road. OK so it's not a GT3R but that cannot go on the road ! RS products really are made for track these days more than road use. If you don't track like myself any longer and want a focused Sports car for fun then a manual GT3 offers that and will still wip any lotus road car ever made on track. GT2 RS beats 991.2 Cup car https://youtu.be/kqsp_kEI9zI

130R said: JayK12 said: Maybe my perspective has changed but a i still can't see how a GT4 RS coming in at probs 1400kg is designed for track, its designed for road and some track. If it was designed for track only it would be a Clubsport race car. All RS cars are road cars which are more capable on track than there GT counter part. I'd go for a Lotus Exige 380 if I was a track rat that wanted a road legal car. All just my opinion of course. Yes road legal and track, not a race car. Why would an Exige 380 be more capable on track just because it is lighter though? An Exige is lighter than a GT3 RS as well but it can't keep pace with one on bigger circuits. I didn't say it would be more capable, I was passing opinion to some comments made here saying the GT4 RS will be designed for track which i think is incorrect. Designed for road, tweaked for track. I said that's what i would go for compared to a GT4 or GT4 RS or looking at the prices of the Porsche you could go Exige 410 which is probably a better comparison, and yes its circa 400kg less, i find lighter cars more fun generally on track. I also didn't compare an Exige with a GT3 RS.

JayK12 said: I didn't say it would be more capable, I was passing opinion to some comments made here saying the GT4 RS will be designed for track which i think is incorrect. Designed for road, tweaked for track. I said that's what i would go for compared to a GT4 or GT4 RS or looking at the prices of the Porsche you could go Exige 410 which is probably a better comparison, and yes its circa 400kg less, i find lighter cars more fun generally on track. I also didn't compare an Exige with a GT3 RS. BAC mono ;-) Exiges are road cars also.

Porsche911R said: monoballs and downforce is race car, it's not needed on the road. Slick tyres is 'race car'. With air jacks. And a full cage and halo seat. When a road going RS has them perhaps I might think you finally have a point. Porsche911R said: GT2 RS beats 991.2 Cup car https://youtu.be/kqsp_kEI9zI Wow....big deal. I can find you any number of other tracks where the cup car will obliterate a 2rs. And it doesn't mean one car is or isn't a race car because it may or may not be quicker than one!

Porsche911R said: JayK12 said: Maybe my perspective has changed but a i still can't see how a GT4 RS coming in at probs 1400kg is designed for track, its designed for road and some track. If it was designed for track only it would be a Clubsport race car. All RS cars are road cars which are more capable on track than there GT counter part. I'd go for a Lotus Exige 380 if I was a track rat that wanted a road legal car. All just my opinion of course. 380 is a bit slow on track, high C of G from that fat engine and heat soke sadly.... even the 430Cups are not posting fast times because that engines just stuck up way too high in the chassis. I do a agree that some thing like a 410 Sport is more a fun car to drive though on the road than any Porker. But come track a stock GT3 will be flashing you over !!! I've seen many Exiges keeping up with GT3 and GT3 RS, was on watching a cracking battle between a GT3 RS and an Exige 410 at the Nurburgring and the GT3 RS was not getting away. I'd go Exige as in my opinion is would be a more fun car, I don't mind letting cars past on track as I'm not there racing. Had a great 3 lap battle with a 458 Challenge race car on slick last month a Silverstone, best track moment even't I've ever had. His car was heavier, more powerful and cost alot more. There is a balance to everything, a 380 sport at 60K is a great buy for a track rat who needs a road legal car to get to and from track, but yes it is still a road car. Edited by JayK12 on Thursday 12th September 14:40

av185 said: That Arctic grey car makes the yellow 15k mile ex Press Porsche GB car look expensive. I agree, the yellow press car was probably bought for a song and probably has plenty of margin in it.

TDT said: GT4RS said: Made sense at 130k new, doesn’t make sense at £170k used. As great as it may be, it’s still a cayman and the platform it’s built around has been about for a long time. I do agree, and really is the kicker for the car at the silly prices. Since day 1 it was always a bit tricky to position this car… kinda like 600LT. Dundon posted this on their weekly Whiskey Friday show. Almost made me spit my drink out. Lol. They’ve heavily developed their 4RS ‘lab-rat’ but the basis ‘is still what it is’. Little details make you think, such as the driveshaft bolts which are the same as the regular 718… not the uprated fine threaded bolts as per GT3, or even the 4RS Clubsport racecar, both with same engine and gearbox. Glad they made it, and for the initial price and maybe up to 145/150k in today’s world probably stacks up. Beyond that… tougher sell vs some other more sophisticated stuff. Edited by TDT on Friday 24th November 23:15 Interesting comments regards to the driveshaft bolts. I would have assumed even at 130k rrp they would have gone all out on things like that in line with gt3 rs spec.

av185 said: Remain unconvinced a 4RS is any louder overall than a 991.1 GT3 RS tbh.... Jesus! You clearly haven’t driven one then! Good luck with yours, no doubt it will be the best thing ever

Like a loud car on track ( Have 01 RS on megaphones ( 130 db drive by ) but then have ear plugs and a helmet on . One short drive in a 4 RS , no thank you , although the wife will definitely not ride in the car which is a bonus

P, I posted this thread for you & Yellow…… go take a look https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

bigmowley said: av185 said: Remain unconvinced a 4RS is any louder overall than a 991.1 GT3 RS tbh.... Jesus! You clearly haven’t driven one then! Good luck with yours, no doubt it will be the best thing ever Morning BM hope you are well and thanks! Driven a couple of WP cars at length actually (both with steels and non mag wheels) and whilst it is not perfect by along stretch I was fairly impressed overall my thoughts generally tally with yours and your rather flattering commentary you posted on your own car when you owned it before you moved it on. Find it way more playful and less 'sterile' than the GT3 and better for rapid road use particularly relative to its smaller footprint. Also never been a fan of the jittery dw front end of the 992 GT3. Quite a bargain the GT4 RS is but of course it ain't a 911 which is a different market... even accounting for its price hike of the 4RS which of course has affected most cars. Unless you are ringing it out noise levels are very similar to pre ppf 991.2 GT3 and as proved above, the 991.1 GT3 RS. The other intersting aspect is how different it feelsoverall to the 718 GT4 manual despite essentially the same underpinnings. Would have preferred a manual 4RS tbh but hey ho thats the eay things have 'progressed' the gearbox is nevertheless superb and suits the car no question if it means less overall interaction imo. Can I ask you did you have comfort seats in yours I know you have had in several of your Porsche GTs/Spyders etc over the years? Interesting how Steve Sutcliffe has effectively shot himself in the foot re his u turn comments lol. Anyway keep enjoying the cars.... I did as ever find your reviews very interesting so thought I would quote this just for posterity:

Theres no pleasing some/many people. Add a PPF and all you get is complaints the cars sounds muted. Make a car that sounds fantastic and all you hear is complaints....its too loud, im going to go deaf.

GT4RS said: av185 said: That Arctic grey car makes the yellow 15k mile ex Press Porsche GB car look expensive. I agree, the yellow press car was probably bought for a song and probably has plenty of margin in it. It would need to have being ragged ex Press with 15k miles! Strange Preston OPC initially had it in up at £179k before it ended up down South.

av185 said: GT4RS said: av185 said: That Arctic grey car makes the yellow 15k mile ex Press Porsche GB car look expensive. I agree, the yellow press car was probably bought for a song and probably has plenty of margin in it. It would need to have being ragged ex Press with 15k miles! Strange Preston OPC initially had it in up at £179k before it ended up down South. I also spotted that Oddly they didn’t even advertise it for long, it disappeared and then repaired at Ashgoods. Maybe Preston traded it for a quick small profit as they quickly worked out it was going to be a hard sell due to being the press car ever YouTuber had. Ashgoods are normally aggressive with their pricing, but not so much on this one.

When I specced a GT4RS it came to £130k and I would have ordered one at that. Now I see recent one owner cars being advertised at less than £10k over list ... but the price is still £165k because of the Weissach and Mag wheels +++ that are not required for track work ( I believe a mag wheel broke running a big kerb at the last RS day ??) and in any event you can't have mags without the Weissach spec. Will we see a sensibly specced GT4RS for track work rather than the Kings Road ? If we believe Porsche are good at segmenting their market, what are they doing with the GT4RS ?? Or is this just more OPC BS ??? Over 100 secondhand GT4RS for sale on mobil.de ??

av185 said: Had for a while at £175k. Highest mileage OPC car at 5500. Bizarre...mag wheels but steel brakes I specked PCCB's on my 4RS but they were not available at the time, I still have the Mag wheels though

When Ashgood first acquired they tried to initially resell at the same money… as i posted…. Back in September. Has since then been dropped to £159k…. so they gave been aggressive, but it’s a sticky sell given the life and exposure. The Arctic car is known by a few of us… one of the 1st cars, and was originally Mayfair car, has been back through them and West London… owner is awaiting 3RS. Edited by TDT on Saturday 25th November 10:35

TDT said: The two cars make noise in totally different ways. Exhaust noise and intake noise in the 3RS is much further back and is much more tuneful. 4RS is an intense racket….. so you probably need to: 1 - be in the mood for it, 2 - drive accordingly, 3- have earplugs or, 4- have a helmet. Edited by TDT on Friday 24th November 22:54 I can attest to that, I've owned both cars and yes the 4RS is just an intense racket. (unless you're accelerating)

rkwm1 said: Theres no pleasing some/many people. Add a PPF and all you get is complaints the cars sounds muted. Make a car that sounds fantastic and all you hear is complaints....its too loud, im going to go deaf. Problem with going deaf is it creeps up on you - after decades of noisy cars - ask me how I know that! For me, these DB readings are just bl00dy ridiculous. With tinnitus I’m well and truly out I’m afraid - already have one noisy car that I need to wear noise cancelling headphones while Driving (Exige 410) don’t need two!

Are the DB levels quoted earlier measured inside or outside the car? The problem with the GT4RS is obviously in the cabin, outside regulations I’m presume it’s relatively quiet,

av185 said: bigmowley said: av185 said: Remain unconvinced a 4RS is any louder overall than a 991.1 GT3 RS tbh.... Jesus! You clearly haven’t driven one then! Good luck with yours, no doubt it will be the best thing ever Morning BM hope you are well and thanks! Driven a couple of WP cars at length actually (both with steels and non mag wheels) and whilst it is not perfect by along stretch I was fairly impressed overall my thoughts generally tally with yours and your rather flattering commentary you posted on your own car when you owned it before you moved it on. Find it way more playful and less 'sterile' than the GT3 and better for rapid road use particularly relative to its smaller footprint. Also never been a fan of the jittery dw front end of the 992 GT3. Quite a bargain the GT4 RS is but of course it ain't a 911 which is a different market... even accounting for its price hike of the 4RS which of course has affected most cars. Unless you are ringing it out noise levels are very similar to pre ppf 991.2 GT3 and as proved above, the 991.1 GT3 RS. The other intersting aspect is how different it feelsoverall to the 718 GT4 manual despite essentially the same underpinnings. Would have preferred a manual 4RS tbh but hey ho thats the eay things have 'progressed' the gearbox is nevertheless superb and suits the car no question if it means less overall interaction imo. Can I ask you did you have comfort seats in yours I know you have had in several of your Porsche GTs/Spyders etc over the years? Interesting how Steve Sutcliffe has effectively shot himself in the foot re his u turn comments lol. Anyway keep enjoying the cars.... I did as ever find your reviews very interesting so thought I would quote this just for posterity: Stand by it all. It’s a great car and I am glad they made it and I thoroughly enjoyed owning mine. However 3000miles after that got written the good bits got rather overshadowed by some of the less good bits. For me it could not make a strong enough case for it being a keeper. Very much horses for courses I feel. Some of my “keepers” are cars I took longer to bond with. It’s without doubt, in the cabin, the noisiest road car I have been in. Added to that it’s the quality of the noise, it’s not a nice tune in my opinion. At list it’s a great proposition, at over list I don’t see the value.

av185 said: bigmowley said: av185 said: Remain unconvinced a 4RS is any louder overall than a 991.1 GT3 RS tbh.... Jesus! You clearly haven’t driven one then! Good luck with yours, no doubt it will be the best thing ever Morning BM hope you are well and thanks! Driven a couple of WP cars at length actually (both with steels and non mag wheels) and whilst it is not perfect by along stretch I was fairly impressed overall my thoughts generally tally with yours and your rather flattering commentary you posted on your own car when you owned it before you moved it on. Find it way more playful and less 'sterile' than the GT3 and better for rapid road use particularly relative to its smaller footprint. Also never been a fan of the jittery dw front end of the 992 GT3. Quite a bargain the GT4 RS is but of course it ain't a 911 which is a different market... even accounting for its price hike of the 4RS which of course has affected most cars. Unless you are ringing it out noise levels are very similar to pre ppf 991.2 GT3 and as proved above, the 991.1 GT3 RS. The other intersting aspect is how different it feelsoverall to the 718 GT4 manual despite essentially the same underpinnings. Would have preferred a manual 4RS tbh but hey ho thats the eay things have 'progressed' the gearbox is nevertheless superb and suits the car no question if it means less overall interaction imo. Can I ask you did you have comfort seats in yours I know you have had in several of your Porsche GTs/Spyders etc over the years? Interesting how Steve Sutcliffe has effectively shot himself in the foot re his u turn comments lol. Anyway keep enjoying the cars.... I did as ever find your reviews very interesting so thought I would quote this just for posterity: Which year did they start putting ppf on 991.2 GT3 and 991.2 GT3RS? Is 991.1 GT3RS immune from the engine issues of 991.1 GT3? From what I know so far, they are not immune

Particulate filter was introduced on the late run of 991.2 GT3 RS… which predominantly consisted of weissach package cars.. so MY2019. These cars also got a further revised engine from the Speedster introducing ITBs. No PPF/OPF for any 991.2 GT3.

TDT said: Particulate filter was introduced on the late run of 991.2 GT3 RS… which predominantly consisted of weissach package cars.. so MY2019. These cars also got a further revised engine from the Speedster introducing ITBs. No PPF/OPF for any 991.2 GT3. Thanks

Lamedom.....no the 999.1 RS was not immune from the engine issues of the 991.1 GT3 but because there were fewer cars (332 UK 991.1 GT3 between Sept 13 and c Sept 2015 don't know 991.1 GT3RS nos but Summer 2015 until cSpring 2016 from memory) they were far less reported.

av185 said: Lamedom.....no the 999.1 RS was not immune from the engine issues of the 991.1 GT3 but because there were fewer cars (332 UK 991.1 GT3 between Sept 13 and c Sept 2015 don't know 991.1 GT3RS nos but Summer 2015 until cSpring 2016 from memory) they were far less reported. Not 8.5% then ?

Just catching up after a while off PH. How come so many GT4RS's are for sale and why? Seems a mental amount or am I the mental one?

gunner said: Just catching up after a while off PH. How come so many GT4RS's are for sale and why? Seems a mental amount or am I the mental one? Because lots (most) of them were bought by people to “make a few quid” rather than to use in anger. When you do use them in anger they are bloody hard work on the road. Ace on track but there aren’t many trackdays in winter. Ultimately they are still a hard, bouncy, noisy, very quick Cayman. Sophisticated they ain’t. List feels about right price wise for what they are.

Was there anything that you could have done to make it more compliant ? Would further reducing unsprung mass or a modification to the PASM have made any difference ? We know that people like KW have been very clever at combining high performance damping with compliance in every day use ... fast bump for kerbs etc ....

Biggest thing would have been to sort the dampers out…car is over sprung and underdamped. But the official kit has gone even stiffer on the front.. that said matched a much better 4-way adjustable damper. I think the key thing just like on the GT4 is the rebound, to kill the pogo-ing. Quite expensive though… double the price of the GT4 version… well done Porsche, cream those profits… Other offerings are available and better vfm. As Bigmowley says….given what they really are… List or thereabouts is the right level. They are getting there with plenty more to be built… Have you been out in one yet Chris? Edited by TDT on Sunday 10th December 20:11

gunner said: Just catching up after a while off PH. How come so many GT4RS's are for sale and why? Seems a mental amount or am I the mental one? I think a few have been sat for while as they are missing PCCB's, Mag wheels, PDLS. Ones with those and in the right colour(light blues seem to be popular) seem to shift pretty quickly!

TDT said: Biggest thing would have been to sort the dampers out…car is over sprung and underdamped. But the official kit has gone even stiffer on the front.. that said matched a much better 4-way adjustable damper. I think the key thing just like on the GT4 is the rebound, to kill the pogo-ing. Quite expensive though… double the price of the GT4 version… well done Porsche, cream those profits… Other offerings are available and better vfm. As Bigmowley says….given what they really are… List or thereabouts is the right level. They are getting there with plenty more to be built… Have you been out in one yet Chris? Edited by TDT on Sunday 10th December 20:11 But no helper springs ? to deal with the transitions ... as mentioned, only at Croft and not running the kerbs (which makes a big difference there) ... it didn't feel as fast or as loud as I had expected ?? Do you think the mags improve the ride quality ?

They do have helpers… just maybe difficult to make out in that particular image. See shots from Essen this last week… Front Rear

TDT said: Quite expensive though… double the price of the GT4 version… well done Porsche, cream those profits… Other offerings are available and better vfm. well that's entirely expected if rather bloody pisstaking because presumably they are the exact same v5 KW unit made for the gt4 even if valved differently for a higher spring rate.....

isaldiri said: TDT said: Quite expensive though… double the price of the GT4 version… well done Porsche, cream those profits… Other offerings are available and better vfm. well that's entirely expected if rather bloody pisstaking because presumably they are the exact same v5 KW unit made for the gt4 even if valved differently for a higher spring rate..... Tbf it is v5 (4-way) for the 4RS, where GT4 was v4(3-way). Same price as for 992 GT3 chassis kit. Still a pisstake regardless. SSR use the v4(3-way) for their 4RS kit. Dundon use MCS 3-way for their 4RS. Both keenly priced. Edited by TDT on Monday 11th December 00:01

Many thanks T ... a mine of useful information ... so unless you pay for the Manthey (sorry, I see it's techquipment at £15k !) suspension upgrade you maybe outside the OPC warranty on a virtually unused car for the whole of the suspension at least ... Why wouldn't they do this instead of mags ?? Edited by ChrisW. on Monday 11th December 10:18

ChrisW. said: Many thanks T ... a mine of useful information ... so unless you pay for the Manthey (sorry, I see it's techquipment at £15k !) suspension upgrade you maybe outside the OPC warranty on a virtually unused car for the whole of the suspension at least ... Why wouldn't they do this instead of mags ?? Edited by ChrisW. on Monday 11th December 10:18 For the majority of people, Mags are of greater benefit. Primarily due to resale and looks, but they do also reduces unsprung so improves ride characteristics. Like you, i’d probably rather spend the same money on a damper kit if it was the choice between the two from Porsche.

TDT said: Tbf it is v5 (4-way) for the 4RS, where GT4 was v4(3-way). Same price as for 992 GT3 chassis kit. Still a pisstake regardless. SSR use the v4(3-way) for their 4RS kit. Dundon use MCS 3-way for their 4RS. Both keenly priced. Edited by TDT on Monday 11th December 00:01 Ah - well that's perhaps not quite that piss-taking actually if the 4rd has same spec (and cost) as the gt3. One would presumably have to think the standard gt4 damper will be of a lower spec (over and above the obvious v4 vs v5) like the older clubsport vs competition KWs. slightly annoyingly, there are v seldom freebies in damper quality and for better or worse, dampers are one of these things that it seems one really does more or less get what one pays for.....

Long time lurker. Seems £150-160k is where they have now settled. I know the early base price was £108k but with options, these are now not too bad value now the silly overs season has passed. Anyone have a rough GFV on theirs to work back a set of numbers at £150k. Thanks

Familymad said: Long time lurker. Seems £150-160k is where they have now settled. I know the early base price was £108k but with options, these are now not too bad value now the silly overs season has passed. Anyone have a rough GFV on theirs to work back a set of numbers at £150k. Thanks Go on the OPF finder. Find a car with “calculate monthly payment” under the price. Click on the link and change the term length to see what the GFV being quoted by VWFS is.

Familymad said: Long time lurker. Seems £150-160k is where they have now settled. I know the early base price was £108k but with options, these are now not too bad value now the silly overs season has passed. Anyone have a rough GFV on theirs to work back a set of numbers at £150k. Thanks Looking at the porsche used site GFV after 3 years will be around the 70k mark, which is very good considering their original list price of 108k plus options. Options rarely increase your GFV. Some of the cars which are currently listed around the 150 to 160k have been for sale for sometime, dealers seem to be holding out above 150k. Guess only time will tell if these will drop further.

GT4RS said: Looking at the porsche used site GFV after 3 years will be around the 70k mark, which is very good considering their original list price of 108k plus options. Options rarely increase your GFV. Some of the cars which are currently listed around the 150 to 160k have been for sale for sometime, dealers seem to be holding out above 150k. Guess only time will tell if these will drop further. If you spec one now a good spec with WP will cost you over £150k. So at todays prices that is about list I doubt they will drop much further while there are fewer cars than buyers just need finance rates to drop to stimulate the market.

Geoff39GL said: GT4RS said: Looking at the porsche used site GFV after 3 years will be around the 70k mark, which is very good considering their original list price of 108k plus options. Options rarely increase your GFV. Some of the cars which are currently listed around the 150 to 160k have been for sale for sometime, dealers seem to be holding out above 150k. Guess only time will tell if these will drop further. If you spec one now a good spec with WP will cost you over £150k. So at todays prices that is about list I doubt they will drop much further while there are fewer cars than buyers just need finance rates to drop to stimulate the market. I’m not sure there are fewer used cars to buys, 27 used gt4rs cars currently for sale. That’s has to be around 10 to 15% of the Uk current allocation. What is interesting is cars which are high specification, low miles with the WP seem to sell fairly quickly if priced competitively. The yellow Ashgood car seems to holding the bottom end pricing up at 150k, this car is now starting to look expensive as competitive opc price similar spec lower mileage cars into the low 150k bracket. What’s interesting is very few owners are attempting to sell a car privately, below dealer pricing. The 7000 mile shark blue car which looks beautiful would probably sell, if it wasn’t priced above current retail pricing for that mileage. Strangely we haven’t seen many shark blue gt4rs cars for sale so this may be a factor for the owner to try and ask for a little more. Cost of borrowing is certainly a factor in slowing the porsche market, but I don’t think it’s the only factor. You only have to look at the 25 plus new 992 at the my local opc to see a storm is coming. The guess the return of depreciation is also a big factor for many.

£70 ish K GFV on one then. Thanks for the tip on the Porsche finance GB website. Oddly makes them quite a chunk more than a 992 GT3 to own.

Familymad said: £70 ish K GFV on one then. Thanks for the tip on the Porsche finance GB website. Oddly makes them quite a chunk more than a 992 GT3 to own. Yup, and when you compare the underwritten GFV's on the GT4 v the 4RS, it shows what an absolute bargain the 'normal' GT4 currently is.

You are very right. They are a bargain against a GTS which is double the monthly. Wonder why they are setting GFV like that ?

You’d have to be crazy to use Porsche finance with those GFV on this car at present. Other lenders are much less conservative/greedy. I think it maybe points to Porsche’s caution and not wanting to hold any risk.

Familymad said: You are very right. They are a bargain against a GTS which is double the monthly. Wonder why they are setting GFV like that ? IMO you can ignore the 'monthly' amount. Monthlies are just a product of APR + GFV + Screen Price. GFV is what matters to see what values might be like in the future APR is what matters from a lender v lender POV Screen price is what matters from dealer pricing v dealer pricing POV A quick look on the OPC finder, filtered to 2023 PDK cars, with 1500 miles currently on the clock. After 3yrs (5k miles per year) they are being underwritten around the following marks: GTS - £45k GT4 - £61k GT4RS - £82k Apply the GFV % differences versus current screen price % differences, and the GTS is hugely over screen-priced. The 4RS is still over priced, but we know they are falling and finding their level. Where as the GT4 has a strong residual v screen prices. Gap to fund(GFV v Screen price) on a GT4 is the smallest of the three, which IMO represents really good VFM. TDT said: You’d have to be crazy to use Porsche finance with those GFV on this car at present. Other lenders are much less conservative/greedy. I think it maybe points to Porsche’s caution and not wanting to hold any risk. The thing is VWFS GFV's are higher than pretty much all the lenders when it comes to PCP, but they use a higher APR to counter that (a purchase is charged APR on the loan amount, and a flat rate on the GFV).

Not sure I’d agree that the GT4 has strong residuals having traded mine in and know of others who have.

MannyLon said: Not sure I’d agree that the GT4 has strong residuals having traded mine in and know of others who have. I guess it depends what your expectations are and when/how you purchased it. If you paid OPC used prices over the past 18mths, then I suspect it's going to hurt somewhat depending how far past summer '22 you bought it. But if you got one at list, then it'll be pretty normal. My car was purchased brand new in July 22', with list of £92k. GFV on the car in July this year at 2yrs old is £68k. Not that I'm going to sell, but to get a steer of the market as I am going to need to refinance in July, I got 3 various trade bids last month which ranged c£78-83k, which I'd say that is pretty good value in the current market. Going into spring/summer those bids should stay firm, or maybe even increase a bit depending on availability (this time last year there were 3x the amount of GT4's available on OPC locator) of decent spec cars continuing to shrink. A refinance 3yr GFV I'm being quoted by the finance houses at circa £55-60k. So that'll be 5 years fun motoring for worse case scenario of circa £30-35k depreciation. That's not bad residual value in the real world, I'd say.

That trade in value of £78-83K of July 2022 GT4 is a bit optimistic. A similar one 2 owner bought July 2022 with a list price of £95000+ at a mileage of 5600 miles was estimated today to be 70K trade value by motorway. The car is not being sold anyway, not PCP but HP

In the current market, they’ll pull your trousers down on trade in.

TDT said: ChrisW. said: Great to see, nice driving I just looked up best lap times at Castle Comb and with Jason Plato driving a 718 GT4 he was only 0.9s slower than driving a GT4RS ... and his magic time in the GT4 was 1.12.6 ... The law of diminishing returns applies ... no matter so long as one is having fun, the learning is in the journey. I firmly believe that fun on track leads to less hoon on the road Yep. I only saw Platos lap in the evening after i got home as some else had mentioned it on the day. Now i have a reference! Lol. Just to put a bow on this... Back at Castle Combe... On worn Cup2 N1 (6 previous events) Closing down a 992 GT3 MR and keeping in front of a hard charging 991.2 GT3 RS WP.. Back to back 1m12.7x with a theoretical of 1m12.36.

kmpowell said: Familymad said: £70 ish K GFV on one then. Thanks for the tip on the Porsche finance GB website. Oddly makes them quite a chunk more than a 992 GT3 to own. Yup, and when you compare the underwritten GFV's on the GT4 v the 4RS, it shows what an absolute bargain the 'normal' GT4 currently is. I genuinely don’t think it’s even worth worrying about or comparing the relative cost of the GT4 vs the 4RS. The 4RS is a GT4 on crystal meth - it’s on a total different level in terms of performance and engagement.

But still not considered by EVO to be a "Supercar" and not designed by Porsche to be the equivalent of a GT3RS ... and they will be built into autumn 2025 ??? Nice car but ??

What is a supercar these days?! Being a 911?! Haha, c’mon Chris… 4RS, looks likely to be built until summer next year by all indications. 4RS has ‘supercar’ performance in a UK road suitable package. ‘Supercar’ theatrics, quirks, and a party trick… definitely. Most direct road-race car equivalence since probably 996 GT3’s to their related Cup car. Exactly the same power unit and gearbox, BIW, suspension architecture and castings. Used prices finding proper level and build slots available at list without games if you really want. GT3 RS always moves on…. 992 3RS is a totally different kettle of fish to 991 3RS. And the road cars are quite alot different than the race cars if you are looking at motorsport lineage if thats important to you. 4RS was never ‘intended’ to be the equivalent of a 911 3RS. MSRP should have been the tell tale sign of that. Only that the overs market had brought them into the same market segment. 98% of people will not be quicker in a 3RS (991 or 992) than they would be in 4RS.

ChrisW. said: But still not considered by EVO to be a "Supercar" and not designed by Porsche to be the equivalent of a GT3RS ... and they will be built into autumn 2025 ??? Nice car but ?? Who cares what journos think. Drive it, if you like it, buy it. I drove a few super cars before choosing the RS.

Previously I’ve owned a 991.1 GT3RS, a 991.2 GT3RS and a 991 GT2RS and there is no doubt in my mind that when you put your foot down in a GT4RS it absolutely blows them all away in terms of visceral engagement behind the wheel……

TDT said: What is a supercar these days?! Being a 911?! Haha, c’mon Chris… 4RS, looks likely to be built until summer next year by all indications. 4RS has ‘supercar’ performance in a UK road suitable package. ‘Supercar’ theatrics, quirks, and a party trick… definitely. Most direct road-race car equivalence since probably 996 GT3’s to their related Cup car. Exactly the same power unit and gearbox, BIW, suspension architecture and castings. Used prices finding proper level and build slots available at list without games if you really want. GT3 RS always moves on…. 992 3RS is a totally different kettle of fish to 991 3RS. And the road cars are quite alot different than the race cars if you are looking at motorsport lineage if thats important to you. 4RS was never ‘intended’ to be the equivalent of a 911 3RS. MSRP should have been the tell tale sign of that. Only that the overs market had brought them into the same market segment. 98% of people will not be quicker in a 3RS (991 or 992) than they would be in 4RS.

Whats the latest on 4RS allocations? I've heard one or two eyebrow raising anecdotes of people getting other RS cars at list with no buying history now the overs thing looks to be dead. I might fancy one but would need a drive in one first. Got my fingers burnt with the 991 RS. Is it right that the 4RS has a lower final drive than the 911? That was one of the many rubbish things about the 911 the gearing was just way too long.

So 991.2 GT3 RS ratios… but with a 20inch wheel to give the shortest effective gearing of any production GT car to date. Edited by TDT on Monday 17th June 22:54