996 Complete Power Loss >> Details inside...

On Monday I had my '99 C4 tuned at Paramount Performance. The mods consisted of ; -Lowering Springs -KN Cold Air Induction -ECU Remap This evening I took it out for a spin to see how it ran. I let the car warm up first, then when the conditions were right I footed it. After about four or five seconds of mashing it the Engine Check light blinked on and off constantly for about 10-12secs. Moments after this, there was a complete power loss. The car idled but there was no throttle what so ever. I rolled to a stop. After this, I switched the car off for 30secs and thn switched it back on. It was fine after this although I didn't dare floor it again. Any ideas? All responses appreciated. Paul

I would take it straight back to Paramount Performance and get them to check it out.

That's exactly what I'm going to do. I have a feeling that they may have screwed up the Fuel/Air ratio, as this is one of the things that they adjust when doing a remap. It can cause misfires, which must have lit the Engine Check light up, and loss of power, which happened moments later. I'm going to give them a call and see the response. I'll reply with details...

Ditto. Hope they sort it out OK. Out of interest, what increase does such a change make to one's insurance premium ?

Good luck Paul. It will be interesting to see what went wrong!!

Erm, nothing. If anything insurance wise comes up, just re-install the original filter. [8D] The mods really do make a difference though, sound and performance wise! Well worth the money (if they sort this out!). One thing not to get done at Paramount is anything to do with shocks or suspension, they really didn't seem geared up to fit the lowering springs. It turned out that my rear suspension was fine but that both my fronts needed replacing. +£800! After that they just used brute force to install the springs and put the parts together, hammering away and crowbarring parts. Told the Performance Manager that I wasn't happy at all, so hopefully he'll sort something out on the financial side.

I got a bit carried away there and went off of the subject! I called him and told him what happened, he seemed very concerned and wanted to come to my house and sort out the car. I just told him I didn't want that, so I'm going to treck up there on Saturday and get it sorted. One last thing that may be interesting... The dyno results. It turned out at 243.7whp stock. Have not yet got the bhp after as an M5 screwed up the dyno.

One thing you have to be very careful with the K&N filter is not to over-oil it, otherwise it fries the MAF sensor. If they have got the mapping wrong enough to be causing a CEL, I would be very wary. Are Paramount Performance anything to do with RSJ? They must share the same building. I hope it wasn't RSJ's bods who fitted the springs in that manner.

Paramount are next to RSJ but nothing to do with them buisiness wise as far as I know. Richard, do you reckon that it has been over oiled then?

It's a distinct possibility. Lots of reports on RennTech.org on the subject.

I know I might be asking an idiotic question, but does the filter have to be oiled then? If so, how often?

I would imagine at normal service intervals, but I'm sure K&N will have a recommentation. They do a special oiling kit and you need to be really careful not to overdo it. From what I've read, once the oil mist gets onto the MAF, it's toast.

Ah I know what you're talking about. Without the oil it will not filter out the dirt and dust etc. But I have something called a 'K&N Drycharger', it's a sleeve that goes over the filter head that appears to stop dirt and dust itself... But if it was overoiled, would it really cause a complete power loss?

The regular K&N filter is a similar physical size as the standard 'paper' filter, and is a direct replacement. That's what I thought you had. I realise now you have the cold air intake kit. Does it have an oiled cone filter? If the output of the MAF tells the DME that there is no air going into the engine, then yes, it will do strange things. That could have been the cause of the flashing CEL. Switching off and restarting might have reset the system.

Thanks for all of your support Richard - I appreciate it. Yes, it's the K&N 57i Cold Air Induction Unit. It has an oiled cone filter with a K&N Drycharger sleeve over it. Do you reckon that the MAF Sensor is shagged? Or will it be ok if I dry some of the oil off of the cone do you think? Cheers Paul

Paul You really must tell your insurers about any modifications. If you do not there may be a umber of consequences: - 1. Your insurers may refuse to cover you in respect of any accident damage to your own vehicle or any other vehicle. 2. You may not be able to get insurance in the future if the company discovers that you have not informed them - and might share this with other insurance companies. 3. You may be uninsured and this is a criminal offence; with a fine, points and possible disqualification if you are prosecuted. 4. How much will you save from non-disclosure against not having to worry? Just obey the law, you might think that it is an ass, but you can sleep better if you play by the rules.

I'll take that on board, cheers.

Paul I had some work done on my 01 C2 including the K&N induction kit you refered to. I had to buy a new sensor which was located near/on the exhaust (exhaust boxes changed as well) sorry but haven't a clue what it was called, this was as a result of a warning light showing (again don't recall which one it was) [ ] My local Indi changed the sensor and haven't had any problems since (no remap). Informed my Ins Co of the changes and they added £20 ish to the premium!!!!!! Don

That'll be a Lambda / Oxygen sensor. They detect the presence of unburnt fuel in the exhaust. If the ECU can't compensate by making the mixture leaner, the CEL will come on. On the K&N 57i kit: they're notorious for destroying MAF's. Loads of people on VW forums have had the same trouble.

Is the verdict that I need a new MAF then? What do you guys think?

As you had it installed, I would say it's incumbent on the installer to ensure that the installation doesn't ruin your MAF or anything else as a consequence. Go back & make a fuss [ ]

I think you need to see what fault codes are being collected first - assuming K&N have sent out an overoiled filter, or the garage have added more oil to it before fitting, and its destroyed the MAF is a possibility, but there could be all sorts of other issues. I would have thought the filter would have to be very very heavily oiled to have caused a MAF failure in such a short run out to be honest.

Well it had been getting some stick on the dyno for 10-15mins, then on the 90min journey home it got thrashed a bit, then a couple of days later after about 10mins of letting warm up I floored it, then the incidents happened as explained. Wha'dya reckon?

Don't worry, you can be sure of that. I've already made a major fuss over the phone, moaning and whining about the way they fitted the springs, about the power loss, that they can't know what they're doing, and that if the car's not perfect after Saturday they'll have a bad name all over the internet. [8D] [ ] [8D]

If a MAF has been contaminated with oil/carbon you can clean it by removing and carefully spraying the very thin sensor wire with an electronic-cleaning solvent available for a few quid from Maplins (you can also buy specific MAF Sensor cleaner in cans but I've always used the Maplins stuff).

Thanks very much RSGulp, I'll try that. Thanks again!

It's a Hot-film MAF, not Hot-wire. You can try a contact cleaner, but in my experience it's a temporary fix (if at all). If you want someone independent to read out the fault codes, drop me an email as I can do that for you.

I think they have that already now !! ;-)

Well they certainly have over PCGB Forums! [ ]

I'm still not sure if the MAF Sensor is gone though. The car was behaving itself after I turned it off and back on, and although I wasn't footing it completely, it was still taking a bit of a thrashing up to about 5500rpm...

Only the diagnostic code search will reveal the true cause, but 5500rpm is the point where the variocam operates, so maybe its related to that if it shuts down above that rev figure ?

What was the outcome of this Paul? I see your signature says +40bhp - have you got the dyno before and after plots?

The dyno beforehand showed a 36 brake increase, but they say that after a few hundred miles when the system has learnt about the new induction and Remap that the brake increase can be upto +46. When I drive the car now I can feel that there is definately more power there..!

But what was the cause of the sudden power loss & CEL? Were the dyno runs done on the same day, before and after? I just find it a little difficult to believe the claims, especially when you compare it with what's involved in a Porsche X50 kit. New heads, cams, pistons, manifolds, remap etc, etc, and it results in 25bhp. It would worry me where they got the 40bhp from, and the long term effects.

Error code 5522, they say it was a CAN error, but they also said that my car doesn't have CAN, so they don't know why it came up. When I looked at the screen it was under the 'PSM' section... Also on a non-Porsche diagnostics kit, the error came up as PSM. Another thing that I noticed when I was thrashing it up a hill the PSM turned itself off.

Morning chaps Sid here,head technician here at RSJ. Just to clarify,seeing as no-one else did,that we are not connected to Paramount in any way. They do rent a unit next to ours,they moved in 2 years ago, but we are not connected. I myself moved to RSJ from OPC Hatfield after 20 years of service to the OPC network. Paul,did the problem with the car get resolved in the end ? Sid

5522 is a CAN communication error, but it only applies to 2002-on cars. You sometimes get PSM errors if the MAF is on the way out, as the signal it generates is implausible to the PSM based on the DME outputs. Your car does have a CAN-BUS.

Yes it did get resolved in the and and the car is awesome now. I got away with a rediculous price! Paul