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THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHRennthusiast Blackstone Labs Bore Score Discussion
Leading reported evidence
Replace with "i'm going
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Honey, I HAVE to go flying has now been replaced with "I'm going for a drive".
Leading evidence: 'Replace with "i'm going' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'same' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Repair cylinder' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Interestingly, I did have a chat with Redline's tech folks regarding their oils and suspension of lead residue regarding an antique inboard I run on a 100LL mix.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
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0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
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0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I havent used Blackstone so I dont know their familiarity with the 3.4 and 3.6 M96 in the 996, but I do know that Lake Speed is very familiar with the M96 and the development of Driven street and racing oils for the M96.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that suspect a cause
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
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Replace provide the clearest picture of progression
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
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Suggestion
A single sample can flag severe cases if levels are "scary" high compared to engine-specific averages, though trends over multiple oil changes provide the clearest picture of progression.
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Suggestion
They seem to justify spending $12k on deferred maintenance on his new 996 GT3, numerous mods like Numeric shifter, high end suspension, interior mods...the list goes on but then bellyache about 2 oil changes a year?
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Interestingly, I did have a chat with Redline's tech folks regarding their oils and suspension of lead residue regarding an antique inboard I run on a 100LL mix.
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
35 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
0 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Generation: 20261026T165820Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
What does everone think about about the Rennthusiast podcastYoutube video with the Blackstone Labs guy and bore scoring???? I think it just posted today. Thought people would alread be discussing it here.
Here is a recap of the 47 minute episode:
Bore Scoring Detection
These metals indicate wear on the Nikasil-coated cylinder bores common in water-cooled Porsche flat-six engines (e.g., 996/997 3.4L, 3.6L, 3.8L). A single sample can flag severe cases if levels are "scary" high compared to engine-specific averages, though trends over multiple oil changes provide the clearest picture of progression.
Prevalence Data
Joe from Blackstone shared that bore scoring signs appear in only about 2% of 3.6L samples, 3-3.8% of 3.8L and 3.4L samples (from thousands analyzed, mostly from diligent owners). This debunks forum myths of it being inevitable ("if not when") in most cars, even S models or later 997.2/991 engines—it's a concern but not rampant. Break-in wear or racing can influence readings, but well-maintained engines often stay in safe ranges.
Not everyone sends their sample to Blackstone, so there's definitely some sampling bias going on here. So I'm not sure if you can conclude much from his data, e.g. it could well be that some people only send their samples over after they suspect bore scoring, thus making these % even higher than they are in reality.
I would love to combine SpeedDiagnostics data with Blackstone�s. The analysis machines are likely the same. I really like Lake Speed Jr�s content and want to support him, but the cheaper price of Blackstone is worth a free lunch. I am going alternate between the two.
I have been using them for years mainly on heavy equipment. My car has no records, virgin engine and many years of abuse. The deviation is as close to zero as possible and the car runs harder than any other 996 I have driven. I think to say the least that the internet has the tendency to blow up any negative.
n
This would be awesome if true. I change my oil religiously twice a year daily driving in Canadian winters and send all my samples in to Blackstone for peace of mind.
I don't take Rennthusiast guys very seriously and treat it as mainly entertainment. They seem to justify spending $12k on deferred maintenance on his new 996 GT3, numerous mods like Numeric shifter, high end suspension, interior mods...the list goes on but then bellyache about 2 oil changes a year? C'mon spare me... If you DIY your oil change it's less than 200 bucks, depending on the oil you use so less than $400 bucks a year. If you drive a lot, it's pennies per mile in terms of cost.
I agree with Pete I don't take the video seriously. I use to love the show " MythBusters" ..lol.. I think they just want to make an interesting video......
They guys doing the video are not experts, and Blackstone does all kinds of engines and their reports are always "rosey" and/or "lets see what it looks like next time" or " more analysis needed for a trend" ...
Given that BlackStone test all kinds of engines and gear boxe oils, some engines have crazy high wear metals as normal..I'm talking from 50-90 ppm of iron and be normal.....so seeing an m96 with near 15ppm of iron is not alarming to them....but would make me stop and think..
And I don't agree with the "fear mongering" conspiracy....I think the experts just tell it like they see it and they see a lot of it...
You can't "scare" a car into bore-scoring or spinning a rod bearing.......the experts are here to fix them back as good as or better than new..
YMMV
Keep in mind there are multiple versions of the 3.4L engine over the years. Early 3.4L engines in the 996 had a different piston coating (Ferrostan) vs. later 3.4L engines in Boxsters & Caymans with Ferroprint piston coatings.
I enjoy watching the show. But in reality, the blackstone guy admittedly did not differentiate between engine types (mezger, m96, m97,etc), just size. To put it another way, he did not differentiate between coatings. He did say that folks that get oil tests probably take better care of their engines and have lower probability of bore scoring. For sure, more data is needed.
For those that want a rennlist poll on M96 996 bore scoring, all you gotta do is read the survey at the beginning of the 996 forum started by
@kincedn9
. You will see that upwards of ~25 that took the poll have it or had it. A larger number do not. And a healthy percentage just dont want to know so have not checked.
I wish both my m96 had Nikasil, Nickel Silicon Carbide cylinders. Instead ALL M96 are Lokasil cylinders thru and thru.
Massive difference, afaik,,, Nikasil does not score/damage easy at all...
So if we are adding in the Mezger 996 TT & GT NikaSil engines, that bore score survey is not accurate at all for our m96.
Skip, I am so glad to be quoting you in a forum post. You have my best wishes for a full recovery.
I have used Blackstone for over 30 years. They are really popular in the general aviation world. Lycoming makes a very popular flat-four engine whose camshaft corrodes because it is not fully immersed in oil and there is no Ultimate AOS that allows more oil in the crankcase. Moisture condenses in the crankcase during inactivity, leading to rust on the cam lobes and tappet faces that spalls off while you're flying - in a single engine aircraft. This issue shows up in UOA and Blackstone tells you in no uncertain terms. The overhaul cost is more than $40K to fix it. I owned an aircraft that had this particular engine, and you have change oil often and fly it for an hour with oil temps between 180 and 200F. I was happy to sell it and move to a Continental engine whose cam was in the correct place.
My opinion, for what little is worth, is the 996 has a great drivetrain that needs attention in a few areas, but does not have a real design issue like Lycoming does. Keyboard warriors blow things out of proportion.
@996.x
Thanks man !!
Good to know about Blackstone....so how high does the Iron ppm have to get on the Lycoming before BlackStone flags it as a serious problem??
@996.x
thankx for that report, it confirms what I said about some engines have Iron PPM from 50-90 ppm as "normal" like in the Continental......but if you see anything close to 15 ppm of Iron in an M96 it is not good.....
Speaking of Piston Aircraft Engines, I still find it interesting that they still use Dino oil and not the great synthetics that we use in our Auto's because the Synthetics will react to the lead in the 100LL fuel and cause sludge and make them fall from the Sky !!!! ....
I dont know why some many folks spin out if control on this stuff. The M96 engine is so damn easy to keep running strong.
All you gotta do for street driving is...
1. Upgrade your AOS
2. Upgrade your IMSB
3. Replace your water pump every 5-7 years
4. Keep your fuel injectors, maf and oxy sensors fresh
5. Run great oil high viscosity oil with high moly amd keep it fresh.
Sometimes we make it more complicated than it should be.
Yep thats right, the Ferrostan coatings were supposedly pretty hardy and made the early 3.4's less likely to suffer bore score.
https://lnengineering.com/products/w...t-bore-scoring
Having flown both the Lycoming O-360 and the Continental O-360 the cam would not bother me in either. Lycoming has the cam above the crank, Continental below. Neither is immersed in oil. The trick to keeping your aero engine working smoothly is to fly the dam thing; same as your Porsche.
Well we get semi-synthetics, should count for something :-) I'd guess it is simply economics, current oils are good enough and it is a limited market with potential for staggering liability. Most aero engines make TBO, so why invest further with limited return.
Interestingly, I did have a chat with Redline's tech folks regarding their oils and suspension of lead residue regarding an antique inboard I run on a 100LL mix. They indicated that their oils, POE base, suspend lead effectively.
So true, and Piston Aircraft Engines control their oil temps very well also...........a lot of Dino oils can protect against wear and high pressure points well,..... but it is very high temps where the Synthetics really shine and protect our high strung Sports Car Engines......and I am definatly a fan of POE Esters like Red Line, Motul, Millers ect..
Aren't aircraft piston engine oils all straight? ie not multigrade ? doesn't that help reduce breakdown and help the oil maintain viscosity and there's no sheering going on?
I like the Motul 300V 5W-50. but now that it is 8000km old (9 months) I've noticed hot pressure isn't as strong as it was when it was only 1000 km old
Most GA recips use Aeroshell 15w50 or Phillips 20w50. Vintage aircraft owners may run straight grades as will some warbirds, and some of those with radials. Some operators also run Phillips 25w60 in their radials.
Honey, I HAVE to go flying has now been replaced with "I'm going for a drive".
I went to the 0-470 - loved that big old flat six. After I sold the plane with the 0-360 the new owner called to tell me how glad he was that I had the CHT/EGT monitor installed. He noticed #3 cylinder was running cooler than normal. The valve seat had cracked - this let them repair the cylinder before the valve sucked, which would have caused a catastrophic.
Another thing I was thinking about; how do they 'ground' their data? I have no doubt they can measure the amount of iron in oil, but what I'm wondering about is how they know whether a specific amount, implies failure.
That'd require some sort of feedback loop between their analyses and the engine being torn down, preferably in a reliable way and with good volume. I don't know their business exactly, but can't imagine they have torn down hundreds of engines for which they have samples.
That is not to say analyses is useless, because certain amounts
make it likely
certain sorts of wear are happening, so I'd still be a fan of doing it, but
conclusively
saying that a certain amount of iron implies bore-scoring, is a bit harder.
They put a lot of emphasis on trend setting for your own engine which combined with averages from similar engines can give you a pretty good idea if something worrisome is happening
^^^This
Its pretty straight forward. Get a virgin oil test to see what you have for the oil baseline. Then start testing your oil to develop data points and a trendline for comparison to other with the same engine. I havent used Blackstone so I dont know their familiarity with the 3.4 and 3.6 M96 in the 996, but I do know that Lake Speed is very familiar with the M96 and the development of Driven street and racing oils for the M96. All you gotta do is send a test in to Speeddiagnostix and you can ask him a million questions knowing he knows the engine. Blackstone may have a similar expert on the M96.
But be carefull, its easy to get addicted to oil testing. 😁
The small valve O-360's had that problem. The large valve O-360 is arguably the most reliable piston aero engine ever. I had the large valve O-360-A4A and ran it for 1,000 hours in the 5 years I had it with no issues whatever. O-470 is nice too, only flew an O-470 powered plane once (ryan navion).
I was going to post a separate thread on these guys. You're right. I can't find them. They still have their separate YouTube channels - Rennthusiast and Elevenafternine. But Rennthusiast Radio seems to have been wiped from the internet. Too bad because I enjoyed listening to those guys.
They are not the same.
Blackstone uses ICP which sees 0-5 micron sized particles.
SPEEDiagnostix uses RDE which sees 0-10 micron.
That's why you can't compare reports...
Glad you caught that. I hate when people think that Lokasil or Alusil is a coating or don't know the difference between these two and Nikasil. Even AI knows the difference.
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
