Another 987 vs 981 thread... - Page 4 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

I bought my first Porsche just over a month ago, an immaculate high spec low mileage 987 gen 2 Cayman S. My intention was to keep it for a year then buy a nearly new 981 Cayman S, however a few things have happened and I now find myself being able to afford said 981. The thought of selling my 987 has been made quite sad as I’ve really gelled with it, nevertheless I’ve read and watched all the latest road tests and I have generally been buzzing with excitement. So I get given a 981 S demonstrator car for 2 days, 20” wheels, PDK, Sport Chrono Plus, PCM etc. I took some time off work just to drive the car as much as I could, racking up almost 200 miles in just a few hours. Unfortunately for Porsche, all it has made me realise is how good my 987 is and has positively put me off ‘upgrading’ for a sometime, so much so I returned the car the same day. Believe me when I say I hate to sound like our resident MrDemon and a few of the other users who have been accused of being luddites but I now agree that the 987 is the more fun car and the drivers choice. The 981 is a fabulous and technically more competent and I will own one someday but only when my 987 is worn out. The steering and brake feel are a bit VW Golf, PDK is just plain boring, and while cornering speeds are higher I found the chassis just didn’t talk to me through my arse cheeks as much. Amongst all of that what most disappointed me was the engine note, it sounds very fake/artificial indeed. I suppose you can’t blame Porsche, they’ve made the car easier to drive and more usable for more people so they’ll sell more and make more money but for people like me they’ve drove me in the wrong direction, unfortunately people like me are outnumbered. For now I’m going to relish my positively analogue Cayman and maybe I’ll swap it for an analogue 997.2 S next year. Which is ironic really as when I first started looking at Caymans I thought they were a bit hardcore for a daily driver but bought one anyway, and now I think everything else is soft and wallowy. Edited by SkinnyP on Sunday 31st August 18:50

I felt the same when I was a Cayman owner. I recall driving my 987 back from the OPC having dropped off the 981 I had been loaned for 48 hours and was amazed with the steering feel of my older car. This actually made me very sad as I've always owned Porsches and was looking forward to buying the new model, I now have no clear idea what my next car will be

I've not driven a 981 Cayman yet but the 981 Boxster S I was loaned made me feel exactly like you said...hard to describe but my 987 CS felt tighter to drive.

Risky post lol Cannot have people agreeing with me, people will just say you only like the car you own lol.

I have just spent a couple of days with a 981 Boxster s courtesy car. Fast, smooth blah blah blah. I was really pleased to get back into my 997s. 981 seems a millions miles away from our old 986s. As an aside, the 981 was fitted with Pirelli tyres. I found them quite uninspiring in damp/wet driving conditions.

I am in the 987.2 camp not just on the driving feel but also the looks of the 981 leaves me cold!

mrdemon said: Risky post lol Cannot have people agreeing with me, people will just say you only like the car you own lol. Lol I thought the same, no offence intended by the way. FarQue said: As an aside, the 981 was fitted with Pirelli tyres. I found them quite uninspiring in damp/wet driving conditions. I found the Pirelli tyres ok to be honest, better traction or at least no axle tramp compared to my Cayman on PS2s although active engine mounts may be accountable for that. I did lock up under braking on a couple of occassions, smearing those 20" tyres all over the road! itsybitsy said: I am in the 987.2 camp not just on the driving feel but also the looks of the 981 leaves me cold! I think the 981 is a great looking car, but my 987 gets more attention/head turns because its instantly recognisable as a Porsche.

I have to agree, I drove a 981 cayman recently. Far nicer interior and much more refined than my Boxster Spyder but it's not nearly as involving and lacks feel when compared to the 987. More of a 'nice car' and less of a 'sports car' IMHO

Hmmm.... tough one this. I was recently loaned a 981 whilst my 997tt was in for a service. It reminded me what my old Boxsters were like and I really enjoyed it, even the flappy paddle PDK for some gran-turismo style driving on the local country lanes. I wouldn't swap out my 997tt for it, but it has made me go out and look for a 987S, I forgot just how different and fun the Boxster is. So having driven a few 987S's now I do think it's a close call. The 981 and 987 are very different cars. I prefer the look of the 981 and the extra interior space, but I have to agree the 987s seem to be more go-kart like in their handling, with more feedback and feel coming through the wheel and the seat, and they feel more compact and "chuckable" than that 981. If I had the choice (which I don't) I would probably but the 981, but it would be close, and in the meantime I'm looking forward to my 987S (when I find it). Give me a few months in this and I may change my mind! G

Welcome to the analogue drivers' club There is no question that the 981 is a superb all rounder, but it is somewhat too 'Audi-like' for me with its over-servoed brakes, dead steering and increased levels of creature comfort.

itsybitsy said: I am in the 987.2 camp not just on the driving feel but also the looks of the 981 leaves me cold! Is there a reason to exclude the 987.1? I only ask as I have one and I've never driven a 987.2, so don't know if there's a distinct difference.

Improved interior space seems a commonly quoted advantage of the 981. Am I alone in seeing this as a positive disadvantage? I like a sports cars to feel tight and cosy with as little extraneous space as possible. It's one of the reasons I chose a 987.2 over a 996 or 997 when I was buying my first Porsche - both the 911s felt too big. I wasn't able to afford the 981 so can't comment on that but if it does feel significantly bigger that would put me off. I love my 987.2 and can't see wanting to change until its worn out.

VladD said: itsybitsy said: I am in the 987.2 camp not just on the driving feel but also the looks of the 981 leaves me cold! Is there a reason to exclude the 987.1? I only ask as I have one and I've never driven a 987.2, so don't know if there's a distinct difference. None that I'm aware of. The main advantage of a gen 2 is the dfi engine. Not much else difference imo.

Interesting topic.. Having owned a 981 for a few months now, I would agree that it is not as pure or raw as my previous 987. Also thought this when I had a Boxster on loan and posted the same comments. I suspect going from a manual to a PDK can also create a negative - if you are not familiar with it or understand how to get the best from it. Once you spend more time in the 981, it sort of confirms that as an overall package, it does most things pretty well. Having moved from a base Cayman to an S, probably does not allow me to do a proper comparison, as the S feels night and day faster. G

Whichever way you look at the 981s are crushingly effective real-world sportscars for the money.

Ozzie Osmond said: Whichever way you look at the 981s are crushingly effective real-world sportscars for the money. 981 GTS is an exceptionally fine machine especially with the Sport Chassis option selected but is it cooler than a Spyder to look at and how long before it's price goes well South of a Spyder!

Ozzie Osmond said: Whichever way you look at the 981s are crushingly effective real-world sportscars for the money. So are renaults.

daro911 said: 981 GTS is an exceptionally fine machine especially with the Sport Chassis option selected but is it cooler than a Spyder to look at and how long before it's price goes well South of a Spyder! Who parked that MR2 behind that Spyder ?

mrdemon said: daro911 said: 981 GTS is an exceptionally fine machine especially with the Sport Chassis option selected but is it cooler than a Spyder to look at and how long before it's price goes well South of a Spyder! Who parked that MR2 behind that Spyder ? Who put those wheels on a Spyder?

daro911 said: 981 GTS is an exceptionally fine machine especially with the Sport Chassis option selected but is it cooler than a Spyder to look at and how long before it's price goes well South of a Spyder! How dated does that Spyder look????

Sarnie said: How dated does that Spyder look???? You can say that without smiling about the car behind from 1999 !

mrdemon said: You can say that without smiling about the car behind from 1999 ! The car in front looks like it's from 1987! And not in a good way!

Seems you are on your own with that view The GTS front air vents takes the design from the bespoke Spyder bumper now. Classic shape, the 981 will not date well and just looks like all the others porsche once you get over the MR2 thing (which I cannot lol) what did Porsche have available in 87 which looks like the Spyder ? The Boxster design did not even come out till 96. I like the banter but you will have to do better with such quotes.

mrdemon said: daro911 said: 981 GTS is an exceptionally fine machine especially with the Sport Chassis option selected but is it cooler than a Spyder to look at and how long before it's price goes well South of a Spyder! Who parked that MR2 behind that Spyder ? It's a good looking machine Mr D http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/porsche/boxste... Edited by daro911 on Tuesday 2nd September 08:56

mrdemon said: Seems you are on your own with that view The GTS front air vents takes the design from the bespoke Spyder bumper now. Classic shape, the 981 will not date well and just looks like all the others porsche once you get over the MR2 thing (which I cannot lol) what did Porsche have available in 87 which looks like the Spyder ? The Boxster design did not even come out till 96. I like the banter but you will have to do better with such quotes. White wheels..........on a white car???? Awful combo, with the 80's style stickers along the side, and makes the car look dated, to my eyes anyway!

That Autocar review is absolutely pants. A minor example - poor fuel consumption? Really? It will realistically see 30mpg from a tank, I would expect (on the basis that it is a bit more efficient than a 987.2), which is damn incredible for a 320bhp 6 cylinder.

I bought a 981 Cayman 2.7 PDK this summer to replace a much loved 987 Cayman 3.4S manual. They are very different, but the one area in which I have had almost universal agreement is that the 981 is a better looking car than the 987. Styling and appearance is obviously subjective - some people bought the original Fiat Multipla, but I think the rear third of the 981 is much better than the 987.

Sarnie said: mrdemon said: Seems you are on your own with that view The GTS front air vents takes the design from the bespoke Spyder bumper now. Classic shape, the 981 will not date well and just looks like all the others porsche once you get over the MR2 thing (which I cannot lol) what did Porsche have available in 87 which looks like the Spyder ? The Boxster design did not even come out till 96. I like the banter but you will have to do better with such quotes. White wheels..........on a white car???? Awful combo, with the 80's style stickers along the side, and makes the car look dated, to my eyes anyway! Have to agree I'm afriad, that Spyder looks terrible.

The funny thing is that once someone says "It looks like an MR2", you cannot stop seeing it! There is a pretty strong resemblance from some angles.

mrdemon said: what did Porsche have available in 87 which looks like the Spyder ? Was the 911 speedster available? Whatever the whole point of the spyder is retro cues without being pastiche. I'm not sure I'd say it's timeless, but I'm not sure it will date as such as it never was cutting edge.

Put both cars outside the school gates and see which the kids like best and I bet it's the spyder.when I had a plain boxster all I got was negative comments then I had a cayman and the joe public feedback was a little more positive but now I have a spyder I have such adoration for the spyder from joe public ,people pull up beside me to tell me what a nice car and kids always stop and look I am approached constantly at garages so does the 981 get the same attention?

I wonder how many owners on here have regretted purchasing a 981 and went back to a 987. Surely can't be a high percentage? I still believe that when you spend a good amount of time in a 981, it gets better. From a styling perspective, I feel that is so emotive, I love both shapes from different angles. G

itsybitsy said: Put both cars outside the school gates and see which the kids like best and I bet it's the spyder.when I had a plain boxster all I got was negative comments then I had a cayman and the joe public feedback was a little more positive but now I have a spyder I have such adoration for the spyder from joe public ,people pull up beside me to tell me what a nice car and kids always stop and look I am approached constantly at garages so does the 981 get the same attention? Mine does....which is a pain. I don't really like attracting Joe Public. Worse car for getting attention was my Lotus Elise.....

Gio G said: I wonder how many owners on here have regretted purchasing a 981 and went back to a 987. Surely can't be a high percentage? I still believe that when you spend a good amount of time in a 981, it gets better. From a styling perspective, I feel that is so emotive, I love both shapes from different angles. G 981 design is much more purposeful. But the main thing for me is the extra legroom in the cabin....a huge improvement over the 987's...

I suppose the conclusion is that, assuming you actually own a 987 (rather than leasing or whatever), you would have to be a wealthy bugger to think it worth paying many thousands more to trade up.

if you own a Spyder you can to pay less now for a 981. The spyder is a classic in the making and reflected in the prices. you need about 40k plus to get into Spyder ownership, i think in 5 years that will be easily 50k plus and your 2014 981 wil be a lot less.

KMF said: if you own a Spyder you can to pay less now for a 981. The spyder is a classic in the making and reflected in the prices. you need about 40k plus to get into Spyder ownership, i think in 5 years that will be easily 50k plus and your 2014 981 wil be a lot less. I am sure if Porsche produce a limited run, bespoke tuned, unique body panelled 981, that would appreciate in value too. I hardly think comparing a Spyder to a 981 is a worthwhile excersie in comparing the 987 v 981 range as a whole. I would guess that in the future, a 5 year old standard 981 2.7 will be worth more than a standard slightly older 987 2.9.....

ORD said: I suppose the conclusion is that, assuming you actually own a 987 (rather than leasing or whatever), you would have to be a wealthy bugger to think it worth paying many thousands more to trade up. You can say that about any new car purchase really! Wish I didn't have any interest in cars ......I'd save myself a fortune!!

FrankCayman said: You can say that about any new car purchase really! Wish I didn't have any interest in cars ......I'd save myself a fortune!! True! But the point here is that, at best, you could say that the 981 is better in some ways and worse in others. I wouldn't be able to justify an extra £20k or whatever to move sideways.

ORD said: I wouldn't be able to justify an extra £20k or whatever to move sideways. By all means enjoy your car and be proud of your car but please accept that Mr Porsche wouldn't have bothered to launch the new range unless he thought it was a step forwards.

mrdemon said: the 981 will not date well. Preserved for posterity. My bet is your contributions to this thread will leave you looking a bit of a tw@t.

Ozzie Osmond said: By all means enjoy your car and be proud of your car but please accept that Mr Porsche wouldn't have bothered to launch the new range unless he thought it was a step forwards. ? I think the change # progress thing has been done to death. Porsche thinks we should all drive PDK, for example, and many of us disagree. We are also in a rather peculiar age in which car manufacturers cannot offer us the products that they want to because of emissions nonsense, making them have to market things they know are compromised - see,e.g., electronic steering.

I’ll save my observations of PDK for another thread other than no thanks! The 981 is a great overall package as is the 987, but as someone who actually owns my car the £15/20k to change is extremely questionable. I think the ‘move sideways’ analogy was very good indeed. The more I think about it the more I look forward to buying a late 997.2 C2S manual next year.

Ozzie Osmond said: Preserved for posterity. My bet is your contributions to this thread will leave you looking a bit of a tw@t. It does not look very good now imo, and it's the 1st try at electric steering which atm is pants. I think the 1st gen of 981 will be forgot quite quick. roll on the 981.2 car. the .2 models are always the best ones as they iron out the crap bits. 987.1 to 987.2 , ie the S sport to the R, no contest, same with the 997.1 to 997.2 flawed engine design with tiptronic to GTS, I am sure the 991.2 will also be loads better and will have N spec PSS lol Edited by mrdemon on Wednesday 3rd September 16:00

If I were in the market to spend more money and "upgrade", I wouldn't be able to look beyond a 997.2 GTS. Better steering than a 981, more power, much better resistance to depreciation, etc.

ORD said: If I were in the market to spend more money and "upgrade", I wouldn't be able to look beyond a 997.2 GTS. Better steering than a 981, more power, much better resistance to depreciation, etc. I agree the GTS is a great car, I would buy one myself but 20k to change over the R is hard to swallow. for some one buying a new 981 now a 997.2 GTS over any thing new has to be the one at 65k spend.

Been away for a few days, just got back and went for a quick drive. God, these cars are amazing. Upgrade? Yeah right, not for a while...

ORD said: If I were in the market to spend more money and "upgrade", I wouldn't be able to look beyond a 997.2 GTS. Better steering than a 981, more power, much better resistance to depreciation, etc. But if you are going down the used route, you are not comparing apples with apples. The cheapest (already 3 1/2 year old) GTS on the Porsche approved used car locator site is £59k with 33k miles. A 2200 mile 981 Cayman S is advertised on the same site for some £13k less than that. Whilst in percentage terms I accept that that the GTS will hold its value better, in cash terms in the medium term, I'm not so sure. Whilst looks are completely subjective, the 981 Cayman is a more modern design, whilst the 997 GTS will just look like a 2004 Carrera S to most people. The 981 has second generation PDK, 2 boot practicality, will be miles better on fuel, is to all intents and purposes just as fast at least 99% of the time, has the engine in the right place, great handling, far more modern interior and at that lower price point offer better value for money and it won't be due a major service in a few months either... After 6k miles in my 981 Cayman S, the steering comment is a non issue in the real world, there's really nothing wrong it. I accept that there's more feel in a 987.2 (I came from the sublime Spyder) but it's still a good sports car. I'm happy with mine anyway.

What I'd like to know is how the 981 boxster/cayman GTS with the X73 sport chassis compares to a spyder/cayman r. I'm sure it makes a big difference to the car and gives a lot of what the spider/R offered. Sadly most are not brave enough to spec it! I couldn't give a damn about the unique body panels of the spyder - the roof was a right faff. The car is great DESPITE the roof, no matter what Mr Demon or anyone else will tell you. The only thing that will get me out of my manual 360 spider is something as involving as the boxster spyder / cayman r. The cayman R is boomy at motorway speeds when I had one for a week. That's expected in a Ferrari perhaps, but not a cayman. The normal 987S I owned was great but ultimately I got a bit bored of it, amazing as they are. The game does seem to be up with these cars though when you look at the odd gearing of the 981 - 2nd gear having being so high to meet emissions regs.

rob.kellock said: But if you are going down the used route, you are not comparing apples with apples. The cheapest (already 3 1/2 year old) GTS on the Porsche approved used car locator site is £59k with 33k miles. A 2200 mile 981 Cayman S is advertised on the same site for some £13k less than that. Whilst in percentage terms I accept that that the GTS will hold its value better, in cash terms in the medium term, I'm not so sure. Whilst looks are completely subjective, the 981 Cayman is a more modern design, whilst the 997 GTS will just look like a 2004 Carrera S to most people. The 981 has second generation PDK, 2 boot practicality, will be miles better on fuel, is to all intents and purposes just as fast at least 99% of the time, has the engine in the right place, great handling, far more modern interior and at that lower price point offer better value for money and it won't be due a major service in a few months either... After 6k miles in my 981 Cayman S, the steering comment is a non issue in the real world, there's really nothing wrong it. I accept that there's more feel in a 987.2 (I came from the sublime Spyder) but it's still a good sports car. I'm happy with mine anyway. I agree Rob. I've owned several 911's but at this time I wanted a two seater mid engined sports car so the Cayman GTS was ideal for my current needs. For the reasons you have stated the 981 Cayman in any guise is a great car. If depreciation was a factor to me I'd have bought a ten year old MX 5.....

rob.kellock said: ORD said: If I were in the market to spend more money and "upgrade", I wouldn't be able to look beyond a 997.2 GTS. Better steering than a 981, more power, much better resistance to depreciation, etc. But if you are going down the used route, you are not comparing apples with apples. The cheapest (already 3 1/2 year old) GTS on the Porsche approved used car locator site is £59k with 33k miles. A 2200 mile 981 Cayman S is advertised on the same site for some £13k less than that. Whilst in percentage terms I accept that that the GTS will hold its value better, in cash terms in the medium term, I'm not so sure. Whilst looks are completely subjective, the 981 Cayman is a more modern design, whilst the 997 GTS will just look like a 2004 Carrera S to most people. The 981 has second generation PDK, 2 boot practicality, will be miles better on fuel, is to all intents and purposes just as fast at least 99% of the time, has the engine in the right place, great handling, far more modern interior and at that lower price point offer better value for money and it won't be due a major service in a few months either... After 6k miles in my 981 Cayman S, the steering comment is a non issue in the real world, there's really nothing wrong it. I accept that there's more feel in a 987.2 (I came from the sublime Spyder) but it's still a good sports car. I'm happy with mine anyway. That is a fly in the ointment. A 2011 997, now in 2014 is quite dated given that that generation is from 2004 as you said. I'm quite happy to admit my Gen 2 Cayman looks a bit dated, especially on the inside. The 981 is technically better than both the 987 and 997 but as we've discussed before, driving enjoyment. Either it bothers you or it doesn't. For me, the 981 is going to be around for a while to come so there is no rush to jump on the bandwagon and buy one. Were as the longer I leave it the more the analogue 997 dates, so its probably best to buy one sooner rather than later.

I don't really understand this 'dated' thing. I couldn't care less if a car looks like it is from a few years ago, as long as I like the way it looks. Cars look good or bad as far as I am concerned.

Know what you mean. It's all relative to price though. My mx5 mk1 was dated to look at but massively enjoyable to drive for £1000.

(I couldn't give a damn about the unique body panels of the spyder - the roof was a right faff. The car is great DESPITE the roof, no matter what Mr Demon or anyone else will tell you.) pure luxury that roof. we are car enthusiasts, you want to try a Carerham or an Atom

said: I couldn't give a damn about the unique body panels of the spyder - the roof was a right faff. The car is great DESPITE the roof, no matter what Mr Demon or anyone else will tell you. Usual roof comments. It takes less than 60 seconds to put the roof either up or down. If you want a commuting/touring car, go buy an e-class or 5 series or something else nice and comfortable. The car is noisier with the roof down... So if you can't live with that then even considering it is a non starter. The roof ADDS to the Spyder it doesn't detract. The ones who get that will be the long term owners.

I had mine 4 years. The roof is a faff. But worse, makes the car very noisy on the motorway. You can't help but feel a tosser in the work car park walking round it popping press studs and rolling up the rear screen whilst your colleagues drive off home taking the mick... Depends when/where you use it I suppose. Wish I could have kept mine.

I know you are fan of the car Rob. However, the whole point of the car and where it comes into its own is with the roof down. The wind noise is far worse roof down than up. So if the car is enjoyed roof down, then it is liveable roof up. On motorways, with roof up it is noisy, bit also far more comfortable than roof down. But the point is that it isn't meant to be a motorway cruiser. I think the roof is a defining character and adds to the model. If the whole rear lid lifted and an automated hood popped up it would just be another boxster. It's not a parts special, it's unique.

Certainly had some memorable roof down drives for sure.

Love the way people still convince themselves the roof is some kind of benefit/feature of the car or that you aren't serious if you can't put up with the roof! "If you don't get the roof, you don't get the car". Just ridiculous. Plenty of us are enthusiasts who couldn't put up with the roof! I'd want a proper roof so I could use the car more often. The car would have been a bigger success for Porsche if they'd have got the roof right. It's still an enthusiasts car because of the great driving experience and low production volume. At least the ex-owners have the honesty to admit the short-comings.

TB303 said: I couldn't give a damn about the unique body panels of the spyder - the roof was a right faff. The car is great DESPITE the roof, no matter what Mr Demon or anyone else will tell you. . Look at my past posts and I state the roofs s t. (But does work and is water tight) I am not going to say black is white because I own one, the roof sucks monkey balls. The thing is I bought my Spyder over a caterham, atom, lotus etc. it's my 3rd car for dry use only I don't even carry the roof let alone put it on. So the roof is not a faff if you don't use it, ;-p. My car has no radio so nothing to nick, I leave it roof off when parked. It's a open top concept , so. Not sure why people buy and spec them up the wrong way then moan about the roof. At the point you spec the weight back in you have bought the wrong car. Cars best feature is the way it feels light with a low C of G that's the fun that's why I don't even carry the roof about. But not sure why this is now a Spyder thread ? Edited by mrdemon on Thursday 4th September 00:48

mrdemon said: Look at my past posts and I state the roofs s t. (But does work and is water tight) I am not going to say black is white because I own one, the roof sucks monkey balls. The thing is I bought my Spyder over a caterham, atom, lotus etc. it's my 3rd car for dry use only I don't even carry the roof let alone put it on. So the roof is not a faff if you don't use it, ;-p. My car has no radio so nothing to nick, I leave it roof off when parked. It's a open top concept , so. Not sure why people buy and spec them up the wrong way then moan about the roof. At the point you spec the weight back in you have bought the wrong car. Cars best feature is the way it feels light with a low C of G that's the fun that's why I don't even carry the roof about. But not sure why this is now a Spyder thread ? Edited by mrdemon on Thursday 4th September 00:48 Have to agree with MrD on this one... I'd have a Spyder or 4C in a heart beat, as a third car, but alas both are financially out of reach for me without sell my GTS which ain't gonna happen, for a while anyway...

anonymous said: [redacted]

Has anyone driven spyder/cayman r back to back with a sport chassis'd GTS then? MrD, you're fun to provoke

anonymous said: [redacted] You could also say the best thing about a base 987.2 is the revvy 2.9 lump! This engine sounds absolutely glorious (far nicer than the 3.8 in my 997S.2). It does lack a little low-end torque - something it shares with the later 2.7 - but really comes alive over 4000rpm or so and is a genuine joy to drive. In the real world, for road use, it's also rare that you're left desperately-wanting for more outright go (and you can regularly use all of the performance there is)! Another big bonus (as you'll already know) is that despite being the reliable 9A1 lump, the 2.9 uses port fuel injection, not DFI, so the intake ports/valves stay absolutely clean over time (if you use decent petrol). Comparing the cars, the performance of 981 and 987 feels very similar. I think the nominal extra abilities of the 981 chassis are probably inaccessible to 95% of us (certainly on public roads) and unfortunately, the 981 steering just isn't as good as 987 and never will be. I'm not particularly keen on the slightly over-servoed-feeling 981 brakes either. On the plus side, the base 981 certainly has a 'nicer', quieter interior (if you want a plush place to be - I can understand those that prefer the more spartan 987 feel). Overall, I agree with others above who have stated that 981 is different to, but not outright better than 987 in absolute terms. ('Progress' isn't always an improvement)! I definitely agree with those who wouldn't part with another £20k+ to 'upgrade'. Comments apply to Boxster, as I haven't driven either Cayman. Edited by Ian_UK1 on Thursday 4th September 11:53

TB303 said: Has anyone driven spyder/cayman r back to back with a sport chassis'd GTS then? MrD, you're fun to provoke I have you little provoker I have driven a Boxster GTS with Sport Chassis & Ceramic Stoppers ... awesome kit indeed and just like most things on the 981 that have been smoothed over v a 987 so has the ride quality on the latest chassis / sport suspension set up over a Spyder.

TB303 said: Love the way people still convince themselves the roof is some kind of benefit/feature of the car or that you aren't serious if you can't put up with the roof! "If you don't get the roof, you don't get the car". Just ridiculous. Plenty of us are enthusiasts who couldn't put up with the roof! I'd want a proper roof so I could use the car more often. The car would have been a bigger success for Porsche if they'd have got the roof right. It's still an enthusiasts car because of the great driving experience and low production volume. At least the ex-owners have the honesty to admit the short-comings. You just don't get it. The roof quite clearly is a feature, it allows the different bodywork and is just so as a result of ripping out the standard electric roof. Porsche haven't got it wrong, they have designed a lightweight solution to providing a means of keeping the cabin watertight. It isn't by accident it is designed the way it is. Porsche were fully aware it wouldn't appeal to all, that's why it is an additional model on top of the normal range. It isn't meant to be as refined as a normal boxster with the roof up. You buy the car knowing exactly why the roof is as it is. You don't stupidly buy it and then moan because it is a bit noisy. If the spyder is your only car and you do a lot of motorway miles and want hushed refinement, then it simply isn't the right car for you. But that doesn't mean it hasn't been designed correctly, it means you picked the wrong car. As a second car for having fun in and mostly using it as intended with the roof down it is fit for purpose.

anonymous said: [redacted] Really? I have no idea and no particular angle of opinion, I was just thinking a leather motor cycle jacket has a bit of mass and that might reflect in adding hide to the dash/doors etc.

I think it's fair to say that just about everything on the options list adds considerable weight to the car while considerably lightening your wallet! IMO almost all the extras are completely unnecessary. Just jump in and drive! 981 is the very best real-world driver's car value.

anonymous said: [redacted] This. The steering is as sweet as a nut in the 986/996.

The spyder roof is like a bra. A faff to get it off, but worth it.

anonymous said: [redacted] You need to get your rear into the drivers seat of a 987 Spyder and then discover just how pure and communicative any previous Boxster could have been

uwotm8 said: anonymous said: [redacted] This. The steering is as sweet as a nut in the 986/996. This is the first time I have heard this. What was changed to worsen the steering, etc? I understood the differences to be limited other than engine changes to the DFI.

I agree with cmoose most of the time, but the Spyder and R have perfect steering feel and weight. no 911 can match it in any model due to the lack of front weight and the GT cars ruin it with the stiff ARB's which effect the feel over bumps to a point the steering wheels moving about on it own way more than one would want. with the geo set to zero toe on the Spyder/R up front, the cars perfect. Only the Noble betters it.

Bear in mind the steering feel and response can differ quite markedly between nominally identical cars due to tyre type, tyre age, tyre pressures, tyre wear, damper condition, suspension setup, suspension wear, steering rack wear etc. etc. This is probably a big contributor to the substantial difference of opinion about which cars steer/feel the best.

ORD said: This is the first time I have heard this. What was changed to worsen the steering, etc? I understood the differences to be limited other than engine changes to the DFI. The 987/997 has a variable ratio rack and feels a tad lighter, but still generally good.

uwotm8 said: The 987/997 has a variable ratio rack and feels a tad lighter, but still generally good. Thanks. I can't say I find it overly light, but the variable ratio thing is noticeable and, to my mind, unecessary.

The variable steering took a bit of time to get use firmilar with I found, its ok now though. Out of the box the 981 steering is easier to 'learn', quicker and more precise I think, it just lacks the buzz of the 987 and its more noticable in the wet. Not a deal breaker, but its not exactly Porsche either. Can anyone confirm what (if any) changes there are to the 3.4 in the 981 to the 987? Its slightly more economical on the EU test but that may just be stop start, and its 0.2 seconds quicker to 62, maybe thats down to the chassis and putting the power down on a hard launch? 0-99 also down 0.6 seconds. Quite an improvement for an extra 5PS and a little less weight.