Decrease in catastrophic M96 failure threads ??

I have noticed a marked decrease in threads about M96 catastrophic failures and have been wondering what the reason for the decrease ?? Are Rennlisters getting smarter and taking better care in preventing the failures?? What are your thoughts on why ? 1 . getting smarter? 2. taking better care of the engine? 3 . driving like a GrandMa?

Getting smarter and taking better care of their 996s. Plus learning from the mistakes of others. At least, that's what I'm doing. And no Grandma here, my foot is to the floor. (After getting up to temp, of course.)

It can't be by driving like grandma. That is a recipe for disaster.

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Both #1 and #2. There has been huge progress over the last 5-7 years in understanding issues and developing preventative procedures and aftermarket solutions. Good to see.

Thanks to forums like this one it seems owners and new buyers are much more knowledgeable about what to look for and what preventive maintenance can be done before a problem arises. Great advice about using high moly oil, changing out the AOS and oil cooler before they need it, and preventive IMS bearing replacement must be keeping more cars on the road.

I think 1 and 2 for sure. Another factor is probably the price - they aren�t as cheap as they were 5-10 years ago, that�s probably giving people a good reason to have more interest in taking care of them and might be pricing out people who can�t maintain them properly.

I'd like to believe that it's #1 and #2 combining to slow down the rate of failure. But I suspect that if you were to check in with LN, FSI, and the rest of the rebuilders they'd say business was humming right along.

Maybe less track use? Maybe those who are not the type to maintain / proactively replace parts / install non OEM solutions have moved on to other models, and more of those that remain are doing all the things they need to, to keep the engines running? I wonder how many 996's are still on the road versus the number that was manufactured and sold in the USA? Good to see you posting, Porschetech3!

I'll be the pessimist and say that it's the result of fewer aggregate miles driven by the 996 population. The youngest M96s in this generation are now 22+ years old (2005 and 2006 MYs were all Mezgers) and if you look at the 997 board, they are more petrified of bore scoring than we ever were of IMS failure. Relatively few of us are daily driving our 996s anymore (I am!) and many cars have had their IMS bearing replaced (and many cars are no longer on the road). I would also say that the level of internet outrage has declined because those of us who were original owners were appalled in the world where a 4 year old car with <30,000 miles could have a catastrophic failure that cost $25,000 to repair (roughly half the value of the car). The idea that you might need to rebuild the engine on a 20 year old car with 80,000 miles, and the fact that a Porsche engine rebuild is expensive, is not so hard to understand. Bottom line is that I don't think anything has statistically changed about the car or engine, but the owners perceptions of the possible outcomes has.

More frequent oil changes (from the old days of 30,000 miles) might be helping

I watch BAT daily for 996 and 986 auctions and am amazed at the number of 25 year old cars with sub 50K miles (<2K/yr). These are trophy cars and there are more grandma owners than not.

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There may be more grandma owners selling on BaT but they are more than offset by twenty-somethings with twenty-K and a dream of owning a twenty-year-old 911. Those folks are flogging their cars.

Say you have 100,000 cars with Potential for catastrophic failure. Now let's say that 10% of those care are definitely going to fail. When they start to fail, it's a big deal, but as the cars either fail or get prophylactic treatment, there are fewer and fewer cars left to catastrophically fail. After 21-29 years, how many looming catastrophic failures are left out there?

#4 if it�s a 3-5% failure rate.. good news they have already failed.. there will never be another failure �. So we can all buy the cheapest most worn out M96 variant with impunity�

I think we should find the correlation between daily commuting and bore scoring. Inevitably, in daily commuting you have to drive like a grandma. How is it going for all of us that we follow all the right directives to maintain it, but daily commute in city traffic?

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135,000 miles, daily(ish) driver in a cold Northeast climate for 22 years. Very rarely see RPMs over 4,000. I followed the original oil change service interval (15,000 miles) up until 60,000 miles, and have been doing 5,000 mile changes ever since. No bore scoring yet (knock on wood).

The armchair mechanics sleeping at the keyboard? If you look at how many were produced and how many really had "catastrophic failures" the percentage is actually very low. Yes most of us have done a better job doing maintenance, etc. but like the "IMS" scare.......it's all internet hype. If you look hard enough you will be able to find something wrong with virtually every car model made.....this is nothing new.

There are more�proper� rebuilt engines out there too that apply the collective knowledge and products from the last 26 years. I have 21k mechanically trouble free miles on my home built 4l. (Had some engine management issues inrelated to the rebuild. )

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Same thing for me. I have more than 160k miles on the clock but engine was replaced in 2005 due to IMS. I replace the oil with 5w50 and Ceratec every 3000miles. My consumption at this change is 0.6 liters for the 3000miles. So, if we daily use it, this helps the longevity of the engine even if we drive it like grandmas? BTW my grandma bought a Citroen Saxo VTS 16v back in 1996 at 82 years old. May we should change the narrative about grandmas?

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I can't speak for other Grandmas, but my Grandma was born in 1923 in Cicero. She drove Fast As ****, and the deputies knew not to stop her. I use 1st for parking, then drive all day in Chicago traffic in 2nd, 6mph to 70mph

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Your statement highlighted above is NOT accurate" 2005 996's Non Mezgers 728 4S Coupe 763 4S Cabs 201 Carrera Cab 129 Targa Data from: Porsche 996 The Essential Companion

When it comes to IMS,AOS, and Bore-Scoring issues on the M96/7 some people like to think the internet is exaggerating the Issue...Alternatively it could be just their perspective is on what they are comparing it to .....ie... are you compareing it to a Mustang or a Ferrari... I compare things to FOMoCo products because I worked for them from 1974 to 1994 and was Top Troubleshooter in the SouthEast for almost all that time... As a comparison, the FoMoCo Dealer I worked for was the Largest and Oldest in the state, one of 9 Dealers in my city and 100 in my state and sold over 300 cars a month ... ...The Porshe Dealer I worked for for a decade before I retired was the only one in my city and one of three in the state and on a good month would sell about 30 cars.... I vividly remember a beautiful 2004 Targa that had the engine replaced twice in the first 10k miles due to IMS failure...and countless others with IMS failures and AOS failure that got new engines...That's why we have a lot of cars with "AT" engines on the road now...I can't recall ever having a 5.0 Mustang or any other engine fail in the 3 year 36k mile warranty....All of my Troubleshooting was on Drivability issues, Sensors, Computer Controls.... I do remember the T5 5-Speed GT's that would bust 3rd gear if the owner gave it a real speed shift into 3rd.....FoMoCo would warranty the first one,, but not the second... and they even sent some people to Drag Strips to gather VIN numbers to void warranty on Transmissions that were Raced on the Track....but didn't have engine issue at all.... The Rev Limiters keep engines from failing...lol The 5.0 Engines were around for 30 years like the Old Air-Cooled Mezgers......They didn't fail in the 3 year 36k mile warranty, and sure there were a some failure after the 3-36k warranty but was less than>.0.5%...people who are OK with 5-8% failure rates don't get any sympathy from me.....The IMS, AOS issues have been Engineered out with updated products....No Excuse for not learning about the FIX...

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Totally different owner cadre after 20+ years on the market. When a 2-5yr old sports car starts grenading its engine thats a major PR problem. When a 20 yr old sport car start having the well-documented problems that defined its entire production run, it's an expected event that you build into your budget and planning. Probably also some effects of "culling of the weakest" in the herd as well as *maybe* some preventive actions that have been effective.

@Porschetech3 , mine still runs great : )

There's probably several parameters working towards your observation : It's winter and people drive their cars less, hence fewer failures Failures have been discussed at length, so the added value of a new thread got marginally lower: you'll probably find all the info you need in the existing ones 996s are being purchased by younger people, and this new generation doesn't use forums as much as we do 996s are getting older and starting to creep up in value, so they are better taken care of

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This. We've seen a complete transformation in the demographics of who is buying 996s. Most are not on Rennlist and don't know about the issues or fall in the camp of those who believe it's made up or exaggerated.

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If facebook posts are any indication, its the blind leading the blind. Pretty painful to read.

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You said it, not me :-)

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Nice !!! My Son has a FOX body 5.0 Mustang Convertible, although not as clean as yours, he would be envious, he also has a 1999 c2 996 Cabiolet.with the Carrera Aero Kit..( He likes Convertibles:: ) ) ...

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I agree wholeheartedly !!! On Facebook when someone asks a serious question, It can be entertaining or a pain to read... Also I don't think Facebook has a way to Research the answers given to serious questions by the knowledgeable few for posterity ....

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I'm confused on "those who believe it's made up or exaggerated". It's painfully obvious that there were issues with these models, but not all of them. Only seems that you ever hear of the ones that had issues ignoring the 1000's and I mean 1000's that don't. I'm not sure how take your response? It would be interesting to know the actual percentage of cars that had this kind of failure. My bet would be less then 1%

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i agree with your statement in an earlier post that all makes and models of cars have issues, especially those that are pushing 25 years old. For sure, the older they get, the more plastic, rubber and metal deteriorate and the more parts need to be replaced and upgraded. Just part of classic car ownership. But you would loose alot of money on your 1% bet. Nothing to loose sleep over, all you gotta do is understand what parts need to be replaced or upgraded and "get her done". Pretty damn easy. But I do laugh my @$$ off every time i hear someone say... "Well, if the ___________ part hasn't failed yet after 20+ years, it isnt going to fail so I dont have to replace it." That statement defies physics.

I'm just here to find out why several people say their 996's rarely see revs over 4000...

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Me too. Mine rarely sees revs UNDER 4000 once it is up to temp. I treat it like I treated my Ducatis.

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^^^ This. The car sings like an opera star at those revs.

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4000 RPM is like 95MPH in 6th gear...that's enough for me. But mostly I'm daily driving in suburban traffic.

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Where I live, I'm thrilled to get it into 3rd gear. All rural. No traffic.

Yeah, the M96 loves fresh high quality, high moly and high viscosity oil for maximum lubrication, and it loves to be driven between 4,000-6,500 rpm.