991.1 GTS vs 992 C4S - Page 2 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Been wanting to scratch this itch for some time. I really had my eye on a GTS but the prices compared to a C4S seem a huge uplift. Are the differences that pronounced? Especially when you compare across generations? I get that the GTS is a bit tighter but keen to know perspectives from those who know! Thanks

I'll say straight away that I'm not that familiar with the different variants - although I have a C4S. I guess much will depend what you want it for and what you'll do with it. In my case I find the C4S quick enough - 0-60 is around 4 seconds and around 180mph (which I'll never do). Mine is predominantly for European road trips. I look at the higher spec 911's and often think that mine is not that far behind - also that I'm pretty much done with track days. I really don't need better handling or another 100bhp.

Assume you mean 991.1 in both cases? If so then there’s quite a bit which separates the GTS, not just the alcantara interior but it’s got engine mods and suspension changes too. Other positive is that the GTS has pretty much all the choice options out of the box so it’s less of a hunt. I’d also say the 991.1 GTS is more suited to a 2wd coupe, it’s a baby GT car, and the last GTS where it’s more than a remap and interior. Great car and still miss mine ocassionally

Ive literally just been through this exact dilemma, not sure if you mean 991.2 GTS though for similar price? I went 992.1 C4S and its an awesome car, I did it for the following reasons: 1. 2 year Porsche warranty from the OPC 2. the updated interior and exterior style of car was a plus for me, this is a personal choice though, some dont like it 3. price wise, I was getting a much newer car with low miles, another plus for me 4. 0-60 quoted at 3.4, however you will see videos of it doing it in 3 seconds with the chrono pack, its a quick car 5. I wanted a daily driver, which the C4S is Either way, you are going to love it, it'll be personal choice. Edited by Beanie on Sunday 5th January 19:54

I am also looking at buying in the next 10 weeks, once my Tesla company car goes back. Any thoughts on this? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/286199027724?mkcid=16&a... I wasn’t looking at a soft top at all but this caught my eye.

https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/details/porsch... 2 year porsche warranty with this one

Whistle said: I am also looking at buying in the next 10 weeks, once my Tesla company car goes back. Any thoughts on this? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/286199027724?mkcid=16&a... I wasn’t looking at a soft top at all but this caught my eye. It's pretty much identical to mine (same spec and colour) - although I paid £5k more (but it's half the mileage). I only bought mine in August and haven't driven it much yet - I think it's a cool looking car, fab from the rear. Great car, but I'd regard it as GT car (rather than an out and out racer), which is why I bought mine. Plenty fast enough if pushed, but comfortably benign when cruising. Very comfortable and swallows luggage. Worth having the Porsche111 point check done as a prelude to having a Porsche warranty.

I'd buy the one with the Porsche warranty.

Beanie said: https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/details/porsch... 2 year porsche warranty with this one That 2 yr warranty is worth £2.5K. Then theres the piece of mind knowing you can drive it hard with confidence. Owned 997.2 & 991.2 Cabs. Handling is close as makes no difference to a coupe. 997 was initially designed as a Cab & Porsche added a roof. 991 carries on that concept. Whichever one you buy, even OPC, look out for Pirelli tyres over 5 years old. A lot of the grip will have gone.

buddys dad said: 997 was initially designed as a Cab & Porsche added a roof. 991 carries on that concept. This is not true. From the 996 / 986 generations on, for each generation Porsche used a single shared platform across all 911 and Cayster models. All variants - 911 coupe, 911 cab, Boxster (and Cayman from 9x7 on) - were inherent to the platform from the beginning and designed in parallel from the beginning. Porche did not start with a single body style and then adapt the design for others. That said, the 911 cabs were not afterthoughts. The requirements of the cab were part of the core engineering for the platform from inception. But so were those of the coupe. It's worth noting that the 997 cab (and 987 Boxster) is a bit bendy and you can feel that a bit at normal road speeds and without remotely being a racing god. With the 991 (and 981) the open top shells are sufficiently stiff that you really can't feel the difference between the coupe and cab. This is not true of the 997.

i think the mix of opinions is good I noticed there was what appeared to be a large price discrepancy between 992 GTS and 992 C4S. Hence me saying 991.1 GTS as they seem more comparable in terms of price. I could be wrong as I am only going off 'trader. I assume that the 992 is leaps and bounds ahead of the 991.1 so would imagine it's possible the 992 C4S is possibly even a better overall car than the 991.1 GTS anyway, but possibly they are sufficiently different in their appear that it's not possible to say. I do fancy the idea of a newer car if I can. I also know a remap would bring the C4S into the same performance envelope as an unmapped GTS anyway. I do fancy a targa... is that a stupid idea? I know they are heavier.

f6box said: This is not true. From the 996 / 986 generations on, for each generation Porsche used a single shared platform across all 911 and Cayster models. All variants - 911 coupe, 911 cab, Boxster (and Cayman from 9x7 on) - were inherent to the platform from the beginning and designed in parallel from the beginning. Porche did not start with a single body style and then adapt the design for others. That said, the 911 cabs were not afterthoughts. The requirements of the cab were part of the core engineering for the platform from inception. But so were those of the coupe. It's worth noting that the 997 cab (and 987 Boxster) is a bit bendy and you can feel that a bit at normal road speeds and without remotely being a racing god. With the 991 (and 981) the open top shells are sufficiently stiff that you really can't feel the difference between the coupe and cab. This is not true of the 997. I refer to Porsche Perfection by Design, where he quotes August Achleitner, Porsche's director of product line management. https://www.amazon.com/Porsche-911-Perfection-Rand... Edited by buddys dad on Monday 6th January 13:30

you really need a short drive in both - massively different engine characteristics - 991.1 GTS 3.8L NA vs 992 3.0L turbocharged. I found the 991.2 S and C4S a bit bland to drive, but I owned an R8 V8 with a loud exhaust at the time.

Nuttcase said: you really need a short drive in both - massively different engine characteristics - 991.1 GTS 3.8L NA vs 992 3.0L turbocharged. I found the 991.2 S and C4S a bit bland to drive, but I owned an R8 V8 with a loud exhaust at the time. good shout, the 991.1 is NA and the 991.2 and also obvs the 992 are turbo.

After reading stuff on here I believe the 991.2 have turbo issues? I think a warranty would be a must with the later model.

I had some similar decisions when I bought my 991.1 C4S - I looked at many cars and read dozens of reviews. Ultimately I decided that a smaller engine and a turbo was not what I wanted - also there have been a few turbo issues. Also that the Targa mechanism has more moving parts than a Rolex (bit of an exaggeration) and is not truly convertible... some issues about the droning sound that some Targa's seem to have with wind over the top. I found a very low mileage 991.1 and it was what I wanted. But, as always, there are a thousand opinions! As I mentioned earlier, it really depends what you're going to do with it. In my case I wanted a GT car for driving through France every year - I didn't want another high performance/supercar and I'm done with track days. ETA mine was about £5k cheaper than buying through a Porsche dealer (I bought privately) - and I spent £2k on the Porsche Warranty that would have been included had I bought through a dealer. I have exactly the same level of protection. Definitely worth looking privately - but making the ability to have the warranty part of the deal... you pay of course. Edited by NDA on Monday 6th January 19:34

I would use it for daily duties when it suits. We plan on spending quite a bit of time doing some Euro and Uk road trips and just enjoy the thing. My other dilemma is I can buy a much much newer Cayman GTS 4.00 for the same budget, and so my search goes round and round and I change my mind weekly.

Whistle said: I would use it for daily duties when it suits. We plan on spending quite a bit of time doing some Euro and Uk road trips and just enjoy the thing. My other dilemma is I can buy a much much newer Cayman GTS 4.00 for the same budget, and so my search goes round and round and I change my mind weekly. But it's not a 911.... Personal choice again, and it's something that crossed my mind, for me it was always a 911

buddys dad said: I refer to Porsche Perfection by Design, where he quotes August Achleitner, Porsche's director of product line management. https://www.amazon.com/Porsche-911-Perfection-Rand... What's the actual quote? I suspect something lost in translation or you're remembering wrong. All the models are based on a modular shared platform. It doesn't make any sense to imply that the coupe is based on the cab or vice versa. It's all much better conceived and planned than that. All the variants are in the planning and engineering from the get go, they don't design a cab and then work out how to adapt that into coupe. But the important point re the cab is that because the open models are part of the engineering from inception, so they can build strength into the platform in the most efficient manner rather than having to resort to ad hoc reinforcement when modifying a closed car into an open car. Which is why the Porsche's modern open models don't have the usual hefty weight penalty you usually see.

So after watching this I have made my mind up. This is what I will buy. I will seriously start looking in a month. https://youtu.be/P7OyffllE0s?si=iwWeYH2Mgr8qN8ft

Whistle said: So after watching this I have made my mind up. This is what I will buy. I will seriously start looking in a month. https://youtu.be/P7OyffllE0s?si=iwWeYH2Mgr8qN8ft "With seating for four" - er, not unless your children were born within the last hour. I have this car and it's a lovely thing. My online searches are still 'live' and the prices have come down a little over the past 3 months or so - there are always one or two good examples out there. Good luck in your search - I hope you find one.

[quote=f6box] What's the actual quote? I suspect something lost in translation or you're remembering wrong. No I'm not remembering wrong, have the book open, its on page 327. Neither was it printed in Swahili & I've miss-translated it into English. But you my friend have a fine career in diplomacy ahead of you for asking so nicely. If you're so convinced you're correct buy the book, I've posted the link. Every day's a school day.

I went through a similar process to the OP last year. Always wanted a 911 and ran out of excuses not to do it. As a second car I was looking at open top variants to replace a BMW convertible. I prefer the look of the Coupe so set out to get a Targa. In my view, a really cool looking car and best of both worlds - open top with a Coupe-esque shape. The default choice was was a .1 Carrera S. I was concerned about the potential turbo failures of a .2 and also liked the idea of the N/A engine, particularly for an occasional use car. What I hadn't really considered was the GTS until I saw one drop into my ideal budget. After watching YT videos of GTS' I came to the thinking that I should buy my dream car now rather than work up to it. I can't compare to other models but my thoughts on the 991.1 GTS Targa I bought: Looks great, lovely to drive, makes fabulous noises, really comfortable on long distances, surprisingly economical (30 mpg over c4k miles) The Targa element does add weight, creaks a bit over poor roads with the roof up, buffeting at higher motorway speeds but i'm enjoying it immensely and is more comfortable roof off than a convertible. You will get the majority of the positives in an S model but the GTS turns it all up a notch. In Sport mode the engine really does growl and crackle. One thing I would say is consider what is important to you spec wise. So much is optional that you would expect to be standard e.g. heated seats, parking assistance, cruise control. Important to me was the Sports exhaust, seats with leg extensions, BOSE and cruise. Luckily my car had all this and more. Overall, whatever 991 you choose you will be delighted. They are so sought after and popular for a reason. Out of choice, I can't see myself without one now.

Maxus said: I went through a similar process to the OP last year. Always wanted a 911 and ran out of excuses not to do it. As a second car I was looking at open top variants to replace a BMW convertible. I prefer the look of the Coupe so set out to get a Targa. In my view, a really cool looking car and best of both worlds - open top with a Coupe-esque shape. The default choice was was a .1 Carrera S. I was concerned about the potential turbo failures of a .2 and also liked the idea of the N/A engine, particularly for an occasional use car. What I hadn't really considered was the GTS until I saw one drop into my ideal budget. After watching YT videos of GTS' I came to the thinking that I should buy my dream car now rather than work up to it. I can't compare to other models but my thoughts on the 991.1 GTS Targa I bought: Looks great, lovely to drive, makes fabulous noises, really comfortable on long distances, surprisingly economical (30 mpg over c4k miles) The Targa element does add weight, creaks a bit over poor roads with the roof up, buffeting at higher motorway speeds but i'm enjoying it immensely and is more comfortable roof off than a convertible. You will get the majority of the positives in an S model but the GTS turns it all up a notch. In Sport mode the engine really does growl and crackle. One thing I would say is consider what is important to you spec wise. So much is optional that you would expect to be standard e.g. heated seats, parking assistance, cruise control. Important to me was the Sports exhaust, seats with leg extensions, BOSE and cruise. Luckily my car had all this and more. Overall, whatever 991 you choose you will be delighted. They are so sought after and popular for a reason. Out of choice, I can't see myself without one now. So many 911 owners quote the GTS as being the sweet spot of the range. Loving that colour. Enjoy!

Maxus said: I went through a similar process to the OP last year. Always wanted a 911 and ran out of excuses not to do it. As a second car I was looking at open top variants to replace a BMW convertible. I prefer the look of the Coupe so set out to get a Targa. In my view, a really cool looking car and best of both worlds - open top with a Coupe-esque shape. The default choice was was a .1 Carrera S. I was concerned about the potential turbo failures of a .2 and also liked the idea of the N/A engine, particularly for an occasional use car. What I hadn't really considered was the GTS until I saw one drop into my ideal budget. After watching YT videos of GTS' I came to the thinking that I should buy my dream car now rather than work up to it. I can't compare to other models but my thoughts on the 991.1 GTS Targa I bought: Looks great, lovely to drive, makes fabulous noises, really comfortable on long distances, surprisingly economical (30 mpg over c4k miles) The Targa element does add weight, creaks a bit over poor roads with the roof up, buffeting at higher motorway speeds but i'm enjoying it immensely and is more comfortable roof off than a convertible. You will get the majority of the positives in an S model but the GTS turns it all up a notch. In Sport mode the engine really does growl and crackle. One thing I would say is consider what is important to you spec wise. So much is optional that you would expect to be standard e.g. heated seats, parking assistance, cruise control. Important to me was the Sports exhaust, seats with leg extensions, BOSE and cruise. Luckily my car had all this and more. Overall, whatever 991 you choose you will be delighted. They are so sought after and popular for a reason. Out of choice, I can't see myself without one now. Tbh this is my thought process now, a nice 991.1 gts manual coupe would be a car id definitely consider, hard to get a .1 manual though, same thoughts re the turbos.

buddys dad]6box said: No I'm not remembering wrong, have the book open, its on page 327. Neither was it printed in Swahili & I've miss-translated it into English. But you my friend have a fine career in diplomacy ahead of you for asking so nicely. If you're so convinced you're correct buy the book, I've posted the link. Every day's a school day. No doubt if it said what you claimed, you'd quote it. No need to buy the book to work that out. Anyway, the application is in at the FCO, thanks!

Beanie said: https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/details/porsch... 2 year porsche warranty with this one I was going to go and take a look at this, but it seems it’s now sold

Oh I wouldn’t say a 992 is light years ahead of a 991.1 GTS. It’s not as straightforward as that. Or a GTS Cayman. These are very different cars. 992 performance day to day with the turbo is better than 991.1 GTS which needs thrashing to get top performance. 991.1 GTS is more evocative when pushed. 992 more capable, more mundane. Really needs pushing to come alive and even then .1 GTS when on edge is more racy. Caymans a different thing. More of a sports car. But not a 911, less idiosyncratic. Horses for courses! All vg cars. But I sold my 992 within months. Great for zooming around Europe. Boring in UK. Targa is not the same car with a different roof. At all. Cabrio closer to that. Targa is something different.

992s owner here, and former 992.1 owner. 1. Avoid SPASM on the gts cars , look for PASM only. SPASM is too harsh for uk roads Imho 2. Tyres matter a lot. Avoid p-zero 3. I liked the interior quality of the 991 , preferred the drive of the 992 and the infotainment I would certainly have a gts without SPASM , but it would be a 4WD. From my experience as a uk DD that may well be the sweet spot

rainmaker2 said: 992s owner here, and former 992.1 owner. 1. Avoid SPASM on the gts cars , look for PASM only. SPASM is too harsh for uk roads Imho 2. Tyres matter a lot. Avoid p-zero 3. I liked the interior quality of the 991 , preferred the drive of the 992 and the infotainment I would certainly have a gts without SPASM , but it would be a 4WD. From my experience as a uk DD that may well be the sweet spot Why avoid P-Zero?

Beanie said: rainmaker2 said: 992s owner here, and former 992.1 owner. 1. Avoid SPASM on the gts cars , look for PASM only. SPASM is too harsh for uk roads Imho 2. Tyres matter a lot. Avoid p-zero 3. I liked the interior quality of the 991 , preferred the drive of the 992 and the infotainment I would certainly have a gts without SPASM , but it would be a 4WD. From my experience as a uk DD that may well be the sweet spot Why avoid P-Zero? Turn to plastic at sub 5 degrees, much better for warmer weather. Many alternatives much better at between 5 and 12 degrees which is most of the uk’s year. Personal experience of going from p zero to Michelin PS4S was that they were much better. There’s been a lot of conversation about this on ph, I found it to be true.

Thanks I'll keep this is mind