Frunk n Electronics

Not sure where to start but here goes... So, my 2004 996 C4S Cab has been in winter storage (on a battery tender) since December. I needed to back it out of the garage once but, otherwise, haven't driven or started it. I did, however, need to get into the frunk once and had some difficulties doing so. Specifically, I tried to open the frunk using the key fob or the switch inside the cabin, heard the latch move (or, at least, it sounded like it did) but the frunk itself wouldn't pop-up. It eventually popped-up one of the times I tried the switch. Pure luck. I found a few old threads where some people recommended replacing the actuator ( http://www.autoatlanta.com/porsche-p...section=803-00 ) to ameliorate the problem. I haven't done so but it's on the list of things to do. Then, yesterday, I wanted to move the car to make room for a large delivery. I didn't have any problems starting the car last month when I needed to move it so I wasn't anticipating any yesterday. So, I flipped the switch to pop the frunk, detached the tender, closed the frunk, got into the car, turned the key in the ignition, and the dashboard went Las Vegas on me. The GPS/Radio screen started flashing. Every possible idiot and warning light on the dashboard started flashing. The spoiler raised on its own. The windows started lowering. The airbag failure warning illuminated, as did some other unfriendly failure lights, and even the horn sounded like a dying moose when I pressed it. I couldn't otherwise turn on the radio or HVAC. Confused, but certain that my car wasn't upside down in a ditch, I tried popping the frunk to see if the problem might, somehow, be battery related. No dice. It wouldn't open. The latch wasn't letting go. I tried the two person method but couldn't open it. I didn't have time to deal with it yesterday so I focused on getting the windows closed (a minor miracle) and called it quits for the day. Oh, and, importantly, the engine wasn't turning over. My first thought went to the infamous ignition starter switch which, I'm assuming is this: http://www.autoatlanta.com/results.p...=911%201998-05 (part #22 on the diagram). So, here are my questions: 1. What are the chances you think my hood and starting problems are related? 2. I'm not sure what the actuator actually does (the frunk's struts seem to be fine - I've never had a problem with them holding up the lid). Theoretically, should replacing it help fix the problem with the trunk? 3. The starter switch seems to be the culprit for many electrical gremlins. I had a faulty glovebox microswitch last year but, otherwise, my car hasn't had any real problems. Just swap it out and start diagnosing the whole dashboard/ignition problem from there? 4. Could a rodent have caused this? Have any of you had similar problems? Thoughts? -Eric

"3. The starter switch seems to be the culprit for many electrical gremlins" -if you mean ignition switch and not starter solenoid (? )- Yes but you would probably have other issues beside the Frunk actuator. Suggestions- Measure the battery voltage across the battery posts when it is fully charged, key off, engine off.If it is much less than 12.4v (normal is 12.6v) start there. Test the release mechanism manually -does it operate freely by pulling the emergency release cable? If not lubricate.Seems like you may need to use that in the near future if we don't solve the problem.

I would start with the most obvious - the battery. Do you have at least 12V across the terminal? Could be your battery tender isn't doing the job. And it could be the battery is just dead. Have you tried jumping the car? Can I make a suggestion - one more time open the trunk (if you can do it) and find the emergency release cable, then relocate it through the front bumper tow hook plug. It will save hours of frustration.

Chances are good. Start with the battery. Pull it and take it down to a parts shop to have them test it. Tenders aren't the be-all-end-all. Our's has acted exactly as described when the battery has been bad. Check all your fuses and relays to make sure they all appear good. Get the frunk actuator replaced (or at least disconnected). If it is going bad it could be causing a weird drain that is making the whole system freak out. Pull all non-essential fuses (headlights, wing, convertible top, etc..) and see if she starts. Really it just releases the latch. What makes it "pop" is just the tension in place. Our hood (or the latch) has never gotten aligned correctly after she rear ended a minivan 10 or so years ago, so ours doesn't pop anymore. We have to stick a finger in on the corners by the headlights and manually pop it. Then we can unlatch it and lift the frunk. Try that with yours. If you can't manually pop it after unlocking it, then either the latch is bad and not releasing correctly or other electrical gremlins are not letting it do it's job when asked. I forgot this in my list of things to try above. Definitely another one to try. Maybe you shouldn't have chased off your feathered friend...

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Thanks! Yes, I meant the ignition switch. AutoAtlanta calls it an "ignition starter switch" in the link I included. I just wanted to make sure we're all talking about the same part. So, you think the light show from the dashboard, the spoiler, etc. could all just be a symptom of a weak battery? Okay, so, to do that I need to get to the manual release which, I believe, is somewhere in the passenger side wheel well...or hope the hood pops the next few times I try the switch. I'll see if I can find time to get into it this weekend unless I can pop it easily this week. I'll let you know what I find! Thanks! -Eric

ERic the specific test for your battery is S.O.H. (State of Health) which is way more sophisticated than the old carbon pile Load Tester & measuring individual cell voltage. It basically 'measures' the degree of internal discharge and sulphation. You can buy diy testers for this quite inexpensively.Fluke is overkill for diy imho. http://en-us.fluke.com/training/trai...al-uptime.html

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Okay, so, it sounds like there's a consensus so far that the bigger problem could just be the battery. That's encouraging. I'll find a way into the trunk and start by checking it before doing anything else. And, DB, thanks for the recommendation on re-routing the cable. I saw that in one of the threads I came across. It's a great idea and, yes, will definitely save some headaches if it continues to be an issue. Thanks, -Eric I'm ignoring that comment. lol

If you cannot get the trunk to open again, try the engine lid. If that doesn't work, carefully stick a plastic wedge under the left rear light and bumper and use a little bit of pressure to separate. You will need something to fish the emergency release cable out from under the light. That should get you into the engine compartment and jumper points. Hook up a good battery to the jumper points and see if you can get the trunk to open.

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Hmmmm. Thankfully, the engine lid opens without a problem. I hadn't thought about trying to jump start it. I can give that a shot and, if it starts, see if that fixes the frunk issue...although I'm still not sure that's the problem with the frunk since I can hear something moving in the frunk release each time I flip the switch. I'll try to take a short video tonight to show what I'm seeing/hearing. I'm wondering if I'm hearing the sound of the actuator releasing. The lid just doesn't pop after it 'releases.' -Eric

I would try a good jump start first and see if you can get enough juice in to actuate the trunk actuator. The key is to get it open so you have access to the battery and actuator in case that needs to be replaced. The deal is, if you get it opened, don't close it again until you figure out what is wrong. It is far simpler to access the emergency release cable by removing the passenger side light, which is simple from inside the trunk, and then relocating the cable to the tow hook hole. Otherwise, you have to remove the passenger side wheel and then the wheel liner. Total PITA. God forbid your wheel lock socket is also in the trunk. It might also help to have someone help lift the lid while you hit the switch over and over again. See actuator #19 here http://www.autoatlanta.com/porsche-p...section=803-00

IMO you have two issues, one the battery and the other is frunk adjustments, here is a good post on adjusting the frunk. https://www.renntech.org/forums/topi...tch-mechanism/

Seems like these cars are very sensitive to week batteries.

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Most modern cars are. Bad idea to "jump start" a modern car with a completely discharged battery. Better to use a slave battery to open the frunk,replace the discharged battery and start from there. Even so there may be multiple error codes and issues. Usually it is a better idea to get it flat-bedded to your Indie to follow the battery replacement and Initialization procedure correctly.

Like Schnell says, any modern car with ECU and has less than 10v I would never attempt to start, I actually set my mins. to 11v. it might crank slowly at 11v but it will not start a 11.3 c.r. engine and could drain the V right on past 9v and on down. most ECU must see a min. of 9.7v to function and it could still give you all the symptoms that was experience here by the poster. So battery showing good v. can drain right down beyond 9v very easily while pulling a load like a starter. .

Update: I had a few minutes free today so: 1. I popped the engine lid and hooked up jumper cables to the engine connector and the frunk opened the first time I flipped the switch. Success. 2. I twisted the key in the ignition, everything seemed good, the starter seemed to try to turn the engine over but then everything started clicking like the battery didn't have enough power. I know it may not be as precise as measuring the charge at the terminals but the car's battery gauge was registering at around 13 when I tried to start it. I tried a few times to no avail before I re-attached the tender to the battery and shut things down (since I had to get back to work). I was definitely getting power from the jumper cables and my grounds were good on both sides. It still felt like it wasn't getting enough power to start -- although, I'm encouraged that the hood opened easily and the battery seems more and more likely to be the culprit. Any thoughts on what could be going wrong? Could it still be insufficient power? Unless you have any other suggestions, I think my next step will be to pop the frunk again and, this time, try to directly jump the battery itself using the battery from my Sonett; which I know is fully charged. -Eric

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Classic dead (or failing) battery symptoms - good example of Occams Razor in play.

Pull the battery and get that sucker tested properly. Seeming likely at this point. I'm not clear about #2. Was that while it was still being jumped or just trying to start itself?

When you attempted to start the car was the extra battery still hooked up to the fuse box? If so, this is not a good idea. Your should not jump the car through the contact in the fuse box. The wires are too small for the high current draw from a starter.

I look forward to seeing just how dire some of the predictions in this thread get.

Eric, I know you are trying hard to solve the problem but in your enthusiasm you are inadvertently causing(?) more serious issues. The basic Key off battery terminal voltage test can be done accurately with Free MM from Harbor Freight. Recharging the battery is also simple. Then we can go to the next steps. And that certainly would not be jump starting. You may get away with it and I hope you do but you are risking some major expense,delays and complications.

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I don't follow you here Schell. The car has been on a battery tender. Unless there is something seriously wrong, that should be keeping a healthy charged just fine. When he connected another power source (spare battery? Another car? Emergency jump pack?) the electrical gremlins appeared to go away. Those are classic signs of a bad battery. Depending on what the issue is a simple MM test may not show a problem. That's why you need to get it tested with a real test unit like auto parts stores have on hand. If it was being driven and had this issue I'd also suggest having the charging system checked, but since it's been sitting that doesn't seem a likely culprit at the moment.

There are multiple problems with what he did in terms of current Auto Electrician Best Practices that are indicated here: https://www.asme.org/shop/standards/...version-licens The simple diy version is here: Amazon Amazon We would never do what he did professionally . My only concern is that others may follow his example and be unaware of the risks in doing so. This is a big change from what we did 20 years ago and what we still do on older cars with no DME or modules. Ol fashion' Jump starting in the traditional sense has been 'out' for years among pro Auto Electricians. They will typically do some basic MM tests before deciding on a safe strategy. A particular danger is with discharged batteries . The book cited explains this. The appropriate ASME courses go into it in much more detail. It is a subject worthy of a separate thread by experts(not me).

Not being facetious here, I swear The manual in the 996, my 958, and her e90 all includes directions for how to jump start the cars. Not that MFG never tell you stupid things (hello 20k OCIs!!!), but if jumping is so bad why continue to tell people how to do it?

Like has been said, classic case of a dead battery. Get your trunk open and this time put the new good battery in. Takes like 5 minutes or less. The old battery, the one still in your car, probably has a bad cell so it does not complete the circuit. Happens all the time, and is why just "jumping" it does not work. Get it out and put the new battery in.

"First do no harm" If no tests have been done on the defective battery ,there is no way to know what the prudent approach is.A free HF MM is all that is needed. Just post the result here and we can go from there. This is not some obscure diagnosis or fix.It is well covered with detailed explanation in the source cited above and on google. Ignoring this may cause no harm .But why risk it when the MM 1st test takes less time than to write this post. As I suggested , someone qualified(I am not) should write a guide . Meanwhile this may help.It is old news: http://independentmotorcars.com/2010...tons-of-dough/ http://www.mynrma.com.au/get-involve...modern-car.htm http://ricksfreeautorepairadvice.com...-damage-a-car/ This is the brave new world of car electronics since Y2K.Nothing new here.

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Good info in these links. Thanks for sharing!