Servicing outside of OPC whilst in warranty - Page 3 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

I have recently bought my first Porsche. I believe in servicing correctly but in my experience specialists tend to have better knowledge about the cars. The car is due a PDK service (12 year mark). I am thinking of using JZM rather than my local OPC partly because the reviews of the local OPC are not great. The exam question is would servicing outside of the OPC invalidate my warranty

FrancisA said: I have recently bought my first Porsche. I believe in servicing correctly but in my experience specialists tend to have better knowledge about the cars. The car is due a PDK service (12 year mark). I am thinking of using JZM rather than my local OPC partly because the reviews of the local OPC are not great. The exam question is would servicing outside of the OPC invalidate my warranty How old is the car & what warranty are we referring to?

It is 12 years old and it has a full OPC warranty for 2 years

FrancisA said: It is 12 years old and it has a full OPC warranty for 2 years I read it as 12 years old, but just checking. Normally any warranty is in tact if OEM parts are used by a VAT registered garage. But, as this is an extended warranty you need to read the policy booklet to check.

Official extended warranty needs to be serviced at an Official Porsche place.

honda_exige said: Official extended warranty needs to be serviced at an Official Porsche place. Are you sure? Aiui European law still applies and providing OE parts and schedules are used then extended warranties are treated in the same way as original ones. ie no tie

Bonefish Blues said: honda_exige said: Official extended warranty needs to be serviced at an Official Porsche place. Are you sure? Aiui European law still applies and providing OE parts and schedules are used then extended warranties are treated in the same way as original ones. ie no tie That only applies to the original new car warranty, not extended ones such as this case. Unless it's changed but can't see anything from a quick Google. 'However, it doesn’t apply to the extended warranties offered by many car makers, so it can be stipulated in the terms and conditions for these that the car must be serviced by a franchised dealer.' https://www.whatcar.com/advice/owning/must-servici...

Your car does not need to be serviced by an OPC to maintain the extended warranty but OEM parts, Mobil 1 etc should be used to remove any risk of issues and the car must be serviced according to schedule. However if you or a subsequent owner wants to renew the warranty then the last service must be by an OPC even if this means duplicating earlier work. This will mean using an Independent is a false economy if you know you intend to renew.

So, as always completely different answers Read the policy is the only answer

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said: So, as always completely different answers Read the policy is the only answer Best advice :-)

Where abouts are you in Herts? I'd suggest Jaz in St.Albans who I've used for 20 years before they moved from Wembley.

The extended warranty is an insurance backed policy so they can set the parameters. As others have said under the 3yr manufacturer’s warranty you have a degree of flexibility but not after the 3yr point when you buy the extended warranty. Presumably the PDK oil change is scheduled with a 2yr service if you’re at the 12yr point? Either way if it’s done by a third party as a service item to comply with the warranty and subsequently goes wrong the warranty assessors will wash their hands of any claim. What’s the PRK oil and filter change these days £500? Extended warranty is good but they put your balls in a noose for it. The policy document will state the criteria. ETA: Page 7 part 2 (c) and (g) https://www.porscheretailgroup.co.uk/binary/getasy... Edited by Armitage.Shanks on Saturday 2nd December 20:02

g7jhp said: Where abouts are you in Herts? I'd suggest Jaz in St.Albans who I've used for 20 years before they moved from Wembley. North London close to J24. I have heard about JAZ - seems the choice is between JAZ and JZM. JZM seem to have the nod in overall reviews and professionalism.

Armitage.Shanks said: The extended warranty is an insurance backed policy so they can set the parameters. As others have said under the 3yr manufacturer’s warranty you have a degree of flexibility but not after the 3yr point when you buy the extended warranty. Presumably the PDK oil change is scheduled with a 2yr service if you’re at the 12yr point? Either way if it’s done by a third party as a service item to comply with the warranty and subsequently goes wrong the warranty assessors will wash their hands of any claim. What’s the PRK oil and filter change these days £500? Extended warranty is good but they put your balls in a noose for it. The policy document will state the criteria. ETA: Page 7 part 2 (c) and (g) https://www.porscheretailgroup.co.uk/binary/getasy... Edited by Armitage.Shanks on Saturday 2nd December 20:02 Ok - I am impressed - you are on the money. However I think JZM might be an authorised service centre. I need to check on that

FrancisA said: Ok - I am impressed - you are on the money. However I think JZM might be an authorised service centre. I need to check on that I disagree, see my post above.

Armitage.Shanks said: The extended warranty is an insurance backed policy so they can set the parameters. As others have said under the 3yr manufacturer’s warranty you have a degree of flexibility but not after the 3yr point when you buy the extended warranty. Presumably the PDK oil change is scheduled with a 2yr service if you’re at the 12yr point? Either way if it’s done by a third party as a service item to comply with the warranty and subsequently goes wrong the warranty assessors will wash their hands of any claim. What’s the PRK oil and filter change these days £500? Extended warranty is good but they put your balls in a noose for it. The policy document will state the criteria. I have read the TS&C's. The relevant clauses extracted (my italics): A claim made under Your Policy for the repair or replacement of a defective system or component shall be invalid to the extent that the defect results from any of the following: Service, repair, or maintenance has previously been performed on the Vehicle by you or a third party who is not an authorised Porsche Centre/Porsche Service Centre; or Non-genuine Porsche parts have been fitted to Your Vehicle So my reading is yes, you can use a third party (because Block Exemption applies) but any work performed by them is explicitly not covered if it subsequently fails and that failure is due to their work - which seems fair. Whether that's worthwhile is up to the individual, of course - on the face of it the only cover you lose is for a Porsche dealer who is negligent in their work. Of course, in the real world you have to deal with a sceptical insurer... Full doc from here: https://www.porsche.com/uk/accessoriesandservice/p... ETA Well-written, and pushes as far as it can, including giving the impression that OPC servicing is mandatory without falling foul of the law, as you'd expect. Edited by Bonefish Blues on Saturday 2nd December 20:38

FrancisA said: g7jhp said: Where abouts are you in Herts? I'd suggest Jaz in St.Albans who I've used for 20 years before they moved from Wembley. North London close to J24. I have heard about JAZ - seems the choice is between JAZ and JZM. JZM seem to have the nod in overall reviews and professionalism. JZM are a independent garage, they're not an authorized service centre, that's the OPCs. I've used Jaz and JZM in the past and would always pick Jaz, but that's my experience.

As stated above - when car is < 3 years old you can use whoever you want (provided they complete to OPC standards, use OE parts, and are completed to time/mileage criteria specified by Porsche), after that if running an extended warranty policy from Porsche you have to use an OPC for servicing if you want the policy to remain valid. Block exemption rule applies to original 3 year warranty. Extended warranty is a complete misnomer and that confuses people, it should be called extended insurance policy and it should be explicit in what its requirements and coverage are. But where's the fun in that?

Fnumber1user said: As stated above - when car is < 3 years old you can use whoever you want (provided they complete to OPC standards, use OE parts, and are completed to time/mileage criteria specified by Porsche), after that if running an extended warranty policy from Porsche you have to use an OPC for servicing if you want the policy to remain valid. Block exemption rule applies to original 3 year warranty. Extended warranty is a complete misnomer and that confuses people, it should be called extended insurance policy and it should be explicit in what its requirements and coverage are. But where's the fun in that? Can you point out where I have misread the TS&C's please? Serious request, because I am clearly missing something here as on my reading (see the relevant paras in my post above) you do not invalidate your insurance by failing to use an OPC. ETA I accept the point about block exemption btw Edited by Bonefish Blues on Saturday 2nd December 22:41

Fnumber1user said: As stated above - when car is < 3 years old you can use whoever you want (provided they complete to OPC standards, use OE parts, and are completed to time/mileage criteria specified by Porsche), after that if running an extended warranty policy from Porsche you have to use an OPC for servicing if you want the policy to remain valid. Block exemption rule applies to original 3 year warranty. Extended warranty is a complete misnomer and that confuses people, it should be called extended insurance policy and it should be explicit in what its requirements and coverage are. But where's the fun in that? If this were the case then you would not be able to apply an extended warranty to any car that had been serviced outside the OPC network which you clearly can - OPCs themselves do this.

But you have to have owned car for at least 90 days, complete 111 check, and I believe complete an OPC service first to be accepted back in, if that recent last service was conducted elsewhere. IIRC… happy to be corrected.

FrancisA said: It is 12 years old and it has a full OPC warranty for 2 years If the car is 12 years old with full OPC warranty surely the PDK service should have been done before they extended it? Or is it under 12 years old and someone sold it before doing the 12 year service and PDK service?

981Boxess said: FrancisA said: It is 12 years old and it has a full OPC warranty for 2 years If the car is 12 years old with full OPC warranty surely the PDK service should have been done before they extended it? Or is it under 12 years old and someone sold it before doing the 12 year service and PDK service? It was just under 12 years old when I bought it from Porsche. I wrangled a Porsche driving day out of them so could not get them to do the PDK service which is due in May 2024.

FrancisA said: 981Boxess said: FrancisA said: It is 12 years old and it has a full OPC warranty for 2 years If the car is 12 years old with full OPC warranty surely the PDK service should have been done before they extended it? Or is it under 12 years old and someone sold it before doing the 12 year service and PDK service? It was just under 12 years old when I bought it from Porsche. I wrangled a Porsche driving day out of them so could not get them to do the PDK service which is due in May 2024. So presumably no 12 year service either? In which case you either have the 12 year service + PDK service done at an OPC when due or your warranty will not be valid after that service.

981Boxess said: So presumably no 12 year service either? In which case you either have the 12 year service + PDK service done at an OPC when due or your warranty will not be valid after that service. Got an update on this topic. I emailed Porsche GB and got the following response: Dear Francis Thank you for your email to Porsche Cars Great Britain (PCGB) Limited. You can choose to have the work carried out at wherever you wish. However, should any faults occur which can be related back to the workmanship then there is a chance that a warranty claim can be declined. If you need anything further, please do not hesitate to contact us. Kind regards Porsche Customer Interaction Centre On behalf of Porsche Cars Great Britain Limited Bath Road, Calcot, Reading RG31 7SE Phone: 03457 911 911 The information in this message is confidential and may be privileged. It is intended for the addressee alone. If you are not the intended recipient it is prohibited to disclose, use or copy this information. Please contact the sender immediately should this message have been transmitted incorrectly. Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and cannot be relied upon as being those of Porsche. Porsche Cars Great Britain Limited (Registered in England number: 861097) is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority. Porsche Cars Great Britain Limited has registered offices at Bath Road, Calcot, Reading, Berkshire, RG31 7SE, England. The Porsche privacy policy is available on the Porsche website at www.porsche.com/uk. Email communications such as this cannot be guaranteed to be virus or error free and Porsche Cars Great Britain Limited does not accept liability for any such matters or their consequences. Please consider the environment before printing this email. From: Francis Sent: Friday, February 9, 2024 6:23 PM To: PCGB R: Porsche Connect Service Account, PCAC - contact_new <[email removed]> Subject: Used Warranty Question EXTERNAL: This e-Mail is external. Hi I purchased a 911 from Porsche Swindon in October of 2023. The car is under your insurance warranty. I wanted clarification in writing as to whether I can service the car at an independent as long as Porsche official parts are used and there is evidence of those parts being used. Kind regards Francis

Porsche GB said: Thank you for your email to Porsche Cars Great Britain (PCGB) Limited. You can choose to have the work carried out at wherever you wish. However, should any faults occur which can be related back to the workmanship then there is a chance that a warranty claim can be declined. Which is fair. If you have any work carried out at an OPC they cannot claim it was not done to Porsche standards, if you have it done elsewhere then you introduce a grey area. If something large went bang I would rather not have to argue it out, I am sure Porsche GB have bigger guns than I have. The Indy v OPC debate will carry on, you pays your money ……….

That's what I posted. The relevant clause is below: [i]A claim made under Your Policy for the repair or replacement of a defective system or component shall be invalid to the extent that the defect results from any of the following: Service, repair, or maintenance has previously been performed on the Vehicle by you or a third party who is not an authorised Porsche Centre/Porsche Service Centre; or Non-genuine Porsche parts have been fitted to Your Vehicle[/i]

981Boxess said: So presumably no 12 year service either? In which case you either have the 12 year service + PDK service done at an OPC when due or your warranty will not be valid after that service. I assume we now know that this statement isn't correct?

BertBert said: 981Boxess said: So presumably no 12 year service either? In which case you either have the 12 year service + PDK service done at an OPC when due or your warranty will not be valid after that service. I assume we now know that this statement isn't correct? See my previous post. IMO you either keep the warranty going and stick with OPCs or forget the warranty, go indy and put any savings towards any repairs that would have been covered.

That email response above is very interesting which if correct allows you to get the service done elsewhere at what should be half the cost of OPC. But what about when you come to warranty extension? The last service has to be by an OPC and within schedule? Are they now saying this is no longer the case and a 111-point inspection with an Indy service history will suffice? Somehow I can't see that and so from all this you saved some cash on only one service assuming 2-yr intervals? The juice is hardly worth the squeeze for any potential claim hassles.

Bonefish Blues said: That's what I posted. The relevant clause is below: [i]A claim made under Your Policy for the repair or replacement of a defective system or component shall be invalid to the extent that the defect results from any of the following: Service, repair, or maintenance has previously been performed on the Vehicle by you or a third party who is not an authorised Porsche Centre/Porsche Service Centre; or Non-genuine Porsche parts have been fitted to Your Vehicle[/i] You were indeed spot on.

Armitage.Shanks said: But what about when you come to warranty extension? The last service has to be by an OPC and within schedule? No, this is not correct - there's no stipulation that the last service needs to be done by an OPC. Armitage.Shanks said: Are they now saying this is no longer the case and a 111-point inspection with an Indy service history will suffice? For extension purposes , there's no 111-point inspection requirement anymore - it's gone. Once an Approved Warranty has been granted, you can service an at indy and keep extending the warranty without any problems, regardless of who's servicing it. The caveat is obviously that any defects that result due to the servicing at an indy might cause a problem and you will have to then have a dispute with the OPC, regarding that specific claim. Here's what the Approved Warranty brochure says: "If your Porsche has an existing Porsche Approved Warranty, this may be extended until the car is 14 years old for a 12 month policy, 13 years old for a 24 month policy, or 12 years old for a 36 month policy. A 111-point inspection is not required for a warranty extension " Armitage.Shanks said: The juice is hardly worth the squeeze for any potential claim hassles. Yeah, running the Approved Warranty and servicing at an indy doesn't make too much sense because in the event of a claim, the question might arise whether the defect is caused by indy servicing and it becomes murky and a hassle. It's basically either service at OPC + warranty or just go to indy.

I would agree. The warranty is not expensive and if you take the cost of an average OPC service and warranty together it's far less than the cost of just the McLaren warranty.

c3m said: Armitage.Shanks said: But what about when you come to warranty extension? The last service has to be by an OPC and within schedule? No, this is not correct - there's no stipulation that the last service needs to be done by an OPC. Armitage.Shanks said: Are they now saying this is no longer the case and a 111-point inspection with an Indy service history will suffice? For extension purposes , there's no 111-point inspection requirement anymore - it's gone. Once an Approved Warranty has been granted, you can service an at indy and keep extending the warranty without any problems, regardless of who's servicing it. The caveat is obviously that any defects that result due to the servicing at an indy might cause a problem and you will have to then have a dispute with the OPC, regarding that specific claim. Here's what the Approved Warranty brochure says: "If your Porsche has an existing Porsche Approved Warranty, this may be extended until the car is 14 years old for a 12 month policy, 13 years old for a 24 month policy, or 12 years old for a 36 month policy. A 111-point inspection is not required for a warranty extension " Armitage.Shanks said: The juice is hardly worth the squeeze for any potential claim hassles. Yeah, running the Approved Warranty and servicing at an indy doesn't make too much sense because in the event of a claim, the question might arise whether the defect is caused by indy servicing and it becomes murky and a hassle. It's basically either service at OPC + warranty or just go to indy. Glad to see that my earlier comment is wrong, I had a incident on Friday when booking in my GT4 with extended warranty for a service - told them to leave off the brake fluid as it's been done recently 'elsewhere'. Got a snotty email back saying she's checked her system and can't see where it's been done at any OPC "As it would invalidate the warranty if it was not." I checked the warranty terms and found as above the key phrase 'results in', that plus the letter above is pretty conclusive. I've half a mind to send a snotty email back.

do send that snotty response and let us know what they say. It seems that the OPC service bods don't know how their own warranty works, some of these changes are recent. I was told all sorts of guff by OPC Hatfield about my warranty renewal and then just called Guildford and they sorted all over the phone with no problem. I have also had it confirmed by Guildford that as long as all servicing is done to Porsche standards and with the correct products then the warranty still covers the car. Perhaps as an assurance, when carrying out work at an indy, we should in writing stipulate that it all be done to the letter of the Porsche service book, the should agree. Then later if Porsche say they have done something wrong, the indy would have to sort out the problem.

jackliebling said: do send that snotty response and let us know what they say. It seems that the OPC service bods don't know how their own warranty works, some of these changes are recent. I was told all sorts of guff by OPC Hatfield about my warranty renewal and then just called Guildford and they sorted all over the phone with no problem. I have also had it confirmed by Guildford that as long as all servicing is done to Porsche standards and with the correct products then the warranty still covers the car. Perhaps as an assurance, when carrying out work at an indy, we should in writing stipulate that it all be done to the letter of the Porsche service book, the should agree. Then later if Porsche say they have done something wrong, the indy would have to sort out the problem. It's very close to fraud imo, one other thing I found out is the approved used warranty = extended warranty, they are one and the same with the same terms.

c3m said: Armitage.Shanks said: But what about when you come to warranty extension? The last service has to be by an OPC and within schedule? No, this is not correct - there's no stipulation that the last service needs to be done by an OPC. Armitage.Shanks said: Are they now saying this is no longer the case and a 111-point inspection with an Indy service history will suffice? For extension purposes , there's no 111-point inspection requirement anymore - it's gone. Once an Approved Warranty has been granted, you can service an at indy and keep extending the warranty without any problems, regardless of who's servicing it. The caveat is obviously that any defects that result due to the servicing at an indy might cause a problem and you will have to then have a dispute with the OPC, regarding that specific claim. Here's what the Approved Warranty brochure says: "If your Porsche has an existing Porsche Approved Warranty, this may be extended until the car is 14 years old for a 12 month policy, 13 years old for a 24 month policy, or 12 years old for a 36 month policy. A 111-point inspection is not required for a warranty extension " Armitage.Shanks said: The juice is hardly worth the squeeze for any potential claim hassles. Yeah, running the Approved Warranty and servicing at an indy doesn't make too much sense because in the event of a claim, the question might arise whether the defect is caused by indy servicing and it becomes murky and a hassle. It's basically either service at OPC + warranty or just go to indy. So what your saying is you can start servicing with an Indy (with Porsche parts) after its three years old up it fifteen years old, you don’t have to go near Porsche at all and they will keep extending your warranty for whatever time period you choose without a single check or am I misunderstanding that?

jackliebling said: It seems that the OPC service bods don't know how their own warranty works, some of these changes are recent. Yeah, these changes are recent and even the OPC people are not aware of them. I have been digging through T&Cs and documents all of last week to get to the bottom of what's allowed/not allowed (as I was under the same impression that OPC servicing was required to maintain warranty but that's clearly not the case as per the T&Cs).

Youforreal. said: So what your saying is you can start servicing with an Indy (with Porsche parts) after its three years old up it fifteen years old, you don’t have to go near Porsche at all and they will keep extending your warranty for whatever time period you choose without a single check or am I misunderstanding that? I believe that's true (with the ceveat re: any claims for faults being traced back to the indy servicing would not be covered). I've asked Porsche GB for a clarification in writing, so will post an update.

The changes to the Approved Warranty T&Cs raise some interesting question regarding modifications, specifically exhaust/silencers. A lot of Porsches seem to have aftermarket exhausts. The Approved Warranty T&Cs state: "A claim made under Your Policy for the repair or replacement of a defective system or component shall be invalid to the extent that the defect results from any of the following: d) Non-genuine Porsche parts have been fitted to Your Vehicle; or e) The Vehicle has been modified in a manner not formally approved by the manufacturer in writing, irrespective of whether the modification took place before or during the Period of Cover;" Now, as per the above, only a specific claim would be invalidated as long as it results from the modification (e.g., custom exhaust). E.g., if the window actuator broke, a warranty claim should be honoured as it's highly unlikely that an exhaust/silencer would cause a window actuator defect. But what happens if there's an engine problem? Things become very murky here because it seems that Porsche would try to wriggle out of any engine claims if the exhaust has been modified (they could state "exhaust is connected to engine, so it's possible it was the cause"). Has anyone had experiences with Approved Warranty and modified exhaust/silencer?

It is beyond me why anyone would service a Porsche outside of the Porsche network, if it has Porsche warranty on it. I ran Porsches for donkeys' years and had many, many times the cost of servicing back in goodwill from Porsche. Porsche wants not to p s off its buyer and OPCs are more afraid of Porsche than their customers. It was rare that I paid for anything outside of warranty, servicing and MOTs.

c3m said: Youforreal. said: So what your saying is you can start servicing with an Indy (with Porsche parts) after its three years old up it fifteen years old, you don’t have to go near Porsche at all and they will keep extending your warranty for whatever time period you choose without a single check or am I misunderstanding that? I believe that's true (with the ceveat re: any claims for faults being traced back to the indy servicing would not be covered). I've asked Porsche GB for a clarification in writing, so will post an update. Thank you :-)

Louis Balfour said: It is beyond me why anyone would service a Porsche outside of the Porsche network, if it has Porsche warranty on it. I ran Porsches for donkeys' years and had many, many times the cost of servicing back in goodwill from Porsche. Porsche wants not to p s off its buyer and OPCs are more afraid of Porsche than their customers. It was rare that I paid for anything outside of warranty, servicing and MOTs. I'll service with them but trackday consumables I'll get done with a specialist - I'll be damned if I'm waiting 6 weeks anytime I need pads or brake fluid.

honda_exige said: Louis Balfour said: It is beyond me why anyone would service a Porsche outside of the Porsche network, if it has Porsche warranty on it. I ran Porsches for donkeys' years and had many, many times the cost of servicing back in goodwill from Porsche. Porsche wants not to p s off its buyer and OPCs are more afraid of Porsche than their customers. It was rare that I paid for anything outside of warranty, servicing and MOTs. I'll service with them but trackday consumables I'll get done with a specialist - I'll be damned if I'm waiting 6 weeks anytime I need pads or brake fluid. I agree ... OPC wait times are a pain. My daughter needed her Ford Puma servicing ... booked yesterday for next Friday !!

So from the above I can take my car that has a last scheduled service to Porsche standards by an Indy and get the warranty which in this case will include the 111-point check given there is no warranty in place? Then carry on having it serviced by my Indy and just keep renewing the warranty without this time the need for a 111-point check? This must be a change of tack and I suspect if I phone several OPC service managers I'll get different answers. A few years back when they got rid of the 111-point for warranty extensions it was me that corrected the service manager who was adament it was required.

Armitage.Shanks said: So from the above I can take my car that has a last scheduled service to Porsche standards by an Indy and get the warranty which in this case will include the 111-point check given there is no warranty in place? Then carry on having it serviced by my Indy and just keep renewing the warranty without this time the need for a 111-point check? This must be a change of tack and I suspect if I phone several OPC service managers I'll get different answers. A few years back when they got rid of the 111-point for warranty extensions it was me that corrected the service manager who was adament it was required. Wow - I had no idea this would generate the responses it has done when I posted my email response from Porsche GB. To be clear I will be using OPC for servicing, It simply is not worth the grief of having a warranty claim contested. Fortunately for me the next service due is June 2025 which will be 3 months prior to the warranty running out. Then I will decide to extend/trade in or just carry on with an indy. From what I can tell the 991.1 engine on the C2S is regarded as pretty reliable. I have only 10K on the clock so no real urgency for change. I clock about 5K a year. BUT......I have a PDK service (12 yr) and a PDCC service (6 yr) due in May. For that I will go to a specialist (JAZ or JZM). I do believe those indies offer a better service compared to OPCs.

Here's the warranty matrix which states when 111-check is required.

c3m said: Here's the warranty matrix which states when 111-check is required. So according to that you basically need the 111 point inspection unless it is an extension to an existing warranty?

Redline88 said: So according to that you basically need the 111 point inspection unless it is an extension to an existing warranty? Yes.

ChrisW. said: honda_exige said: Louis Balfour said: It is beyond me why anyone would service a Porsche outside of the Porsche network, if it has Porsche warranty on it. I ran Porsches for donkeys' years and had many, many times the cost of servicing back in goodwill from Porsche. Porsche wants not to p s off its buyer and OPCs are more afraid of Porsche than their customers. It was rare that I paid for anything outside of warranty, servicing and MOTs. I'll service with them but trackday consumables I'll get done with a specialist - I'll be damned if I'm waiting 6 weeks anytime I need pads or brake fluid. I agree ... OPC wait times are a pain. My daughter needed her Ford Puma servicing ... booked yesterday for next Friday !! I wonder if OPCs have become a victim of Porsche's success in recent years. When I first started running new Porsches they were a fairly uncommon sight on the roads. Now Porsche badges are everywhere and there is still only one OPC in the city.

FrancisA said: To be clear I will be using OPC for servicing, It simply is not worth the grief of having a warranty claim contested............... BUT......I have a PDK service (12 yr) and a PDCC service (6 yr) due in May. For that I will go to a specialist (JAZ or JZM). I do believe those indies offer a better service compared to OPCs. They are probably cheaper, but out of interest why would you consider an indie better than an OPC for the PDK service?

elan362 said: Redline88 said: So according to that you basically need the 111 point inspection unless it is an extension to an existing warranty? Yes. And if one was buying privately a car with a Porsche extended warranty, the warranty should be valid for more than 90 days or a new 111 point check will be required when renewing it ....

ChrisW. said: And if one was buying privately a car with a Porsche extended warranty, the warranty should be valid for more than 90 days or a new 111 point check will be required when renewing it .... Yes. If I were buying privately and there was less than 3 months Warranty on the car, I'd be looking for the seller to put additional warranty on the car. prior to sale. I'd be happy to add the cost onto the sale price. It's murkier if you by from a trade seller that is not an POC. The warranty terms say the Approved warranty is only transferable If sold privately or via an OPC and it cannot be transferred in a sale from the trade. (The existing owner can get a refund on the unused warranty cost) If you buy from a non OPC trader, then you would require a 111 point check (and have the latest service carried out by a OPC) in order to bring the car back into the Approved Porsche warranty

981Boxess said: They are probably cheaper, but out of interest why would you consider an indie better than an OPC for the PDK service? I am referring to renowned Porsche Indies. They are going to have more knowledgeable staff as their reputation rests on their work. I have watched a couple of YouTube videos from Harry's Garage and 911 Virgins where they have taken work to JAZ for their cars. My experience of running a Mercedes was always an indie down in Fulham I used for 14 years. He knew those cars inside out. It normally is that way with the Indies.

FrancisA said: 981Boxess said: They are probably cheaper, but out of interest why would you consider an indie better than an OPC for the PDK service? I am referring to renowned Porsche Indies. They are going to have more knowledgeable staff as their reputation rests on their work. I have watched a couple of YouTube videos from Harry's Garage and 911 Virgins where they have taken work to JAZ for their cars. My experience of running a Mercedes was always an indie down in Fulham I used for 14 years. He knew those cars inside out. It normally is that way with the Indies. I’ve always found this point of view strange, so more or less Porsche don’t really know what they are doing and an Indy will have more experience/carry out work to a higher standard? In my experience, it all hinges on which master tech or scooby doo get their hands on your car, there are both in Indy and opc’s workshops.

FrancisA said: 981Boxess said: They are probably cheaper, but out of interest why would you consider an indie better than an OPC for the PDK service? I am referring to renowned Porsche Indies. They are going to have more knowledgeable staff as their reputation rests on their work. I have watched a couple of YouTube videos from Harry's Garage and 911 Virgins where they have taken work to JAZ for their cars. My experience of running a Mercedes was always an indie down in Fulham I used for 14 years. He knew those cars inside out. It normally is that way with the Indies. If you are running an older car that might(?) well be the case, but if it is current/recent model the OPCs will be getting updates from the factory as technical data filters through, indies will only know what they have experienced in that one garage, with a much smaller throughput of cars.

Had a reply from the OPC they've accepted I do actually still have a warranty but are now claiming that I won't be able to renew the warranty when it expires. The document she attached seems to be some kind of internal checklist, don't think it's from PCGB. Losing the will to live dealing with OPCs. Edited by honda_exige on Monday 12th February 15:26

c3m said: I believe that's true (with the ceveat re: any claims for faults being traced back to the indy servicing would not be covered). I've asked Porsche GB for a clarification in writing, so will post an update. Well, Porsche GB are now refusing to answer my question regarding extension of warranty if a car has been serviced by an indy. OPC sends you to Porsche GB, Porsche GB sends you to OPC. "For all Warranty information, please reach out to your local Porsche Centre. You can find your Centre using the below link: https://www.porsche.com/uk/dealersearch/"

honda_exige said: The document she attached seems to be some kind of internal checklist, don't think it's from PCGB. This is very interesting - I never signed such a document and it's clear that it's meant to be signed by customers as a signature is required at the bottom. It also seems to refer to "Handover", so presumably it's about setting up a warranty for the first time after buying a car, not extending. As has been said, it only makes sense to keep warranty if servicing at an OPC, while technically it seems it's not required from publicly available documents, the associated hassle would not be worth it.

c3m said: Well, Porsche GB are now refusing to answer my question regarding extension of warranty if a car has been serviced by an indy. Looking at the attachment above would it not suggest that unless the seller can tick 'YES' in all seven boxes in section one the Porsche Approved Warranty would not be recommended? That being the case '1e' requires that you commit to Porsche Centre or an authorised service or repair centre, would any indie be an authorised repairer - I doubt it. Isn't that your answer? Porsche cannot insist you get them to service your car but they can dictate what hoops you need to jump through to have the warranty and be able to claim on it.

Panamax said: Bear in mind these things are often not clear cut. In all seriousness, it seems completely pointless to spend money on a warranty and then try to cut corners on servicing. After all, if you don't trust Porsche to service your car how could you possibly trust them to do any warranty work? Nail on head! Tbh when my current keeper Porsche hits 15years old (if not before) I’ll be doing all myself and will not be gracing the doors of an Indy or OPC

My understanding was basically in-line with the last few posts. You can have work done at an indi using OEM parts but you need to have the scheduled serving done at the OPC if you want to keep the warranty going. If any issues found result from poor workmanship from a non-OPC service, they can be declined under warranty. I got a 718 Cayman last year (first Porsche) and it had a few months of extended warranty left, which I renewed for a year. Debating whether or not to keep it though as you're 700 odd quid a year for the warranty, plus the super high rates just for standard interval work (someone on another forum said their 20k service was up to £1400 at their OPC) so before anyone's even touched a spanner you're in for £2,800 over the two years. Doesn't feel like great value, but then insurance rarely does until you need it.

I am the owner of a coming-up-to-six-year-old 911 991.2 Carrera 4 that I have owned and warrantied from new, via Porsche. I am therefore faced with the decision of whether to extend my Porsche warranty and whether to stick with servicing at OPC’s, or go independent. So first and foremost thanks everyone for this incredibly useful and insightful thread. I think the only thing missing from the debate is what the ultimate financial costs and risks are, from the different choices. I’m not saying by that that its just about £’s. However weighing up how much the £’s are helps focus the mind on the harder-to-quantify other costs and benefits. So - prompted by the debate - I have sat down with a spreadsheet and some plausible assumptions around warranty and servicing costs based around some recent shopping around I have done, looking ahead a further 6 years. The table at the foot of this post summarises my assumptions and conclusions, which assumes that I extend my warranty and service the vehicle at the end of year 6 (i.e. where I am now) and keep warrantying and servicing it until the end of year 12. The cost over six years of going the exclusively Porsche route is just over £15k. If i go ‘half and half’ and extend the warranty but have the servicing done by an Indie I save just over £4k. If I quit the Porsche ecosystem completely and don’t renew my warranty I save nearly £11k. The consensus of the thread is that option 2 (half and half) is viable, subject to the fact that Porsche won’t warranty parts and maintenance not undertaken by an OPC. Some have also made the valid point that Porsche might be more likely to quibble over a warranty claim where there is any sort of non-OPC element. Plus there is an argument that resale value will suffer without a full Porsche service history. If I go option 3 I save a five figure sum but now not only take the risk on resale value but also of a major repair at my cost and risk. My car is a manual so I don’t have to worry about total replacement of a PDK box. I do however worry about failure of one or both turbos, which people tell me is a likely five figure repair, if it comes to pass. But there is a less than 100% probability of that, even over the next six years. But there is a good chance that something fails. What this analysis omits is the diffferential cost of non-servicing maintenance outside the warranty, which will be principally wearing components like brakes and clutches. Factor that in and it will likely increase the differentials as OPC’s will also be more expensive for those (although there is a fourth option of going OPC for servicing, but not for brakes and clutches.) Finally, for the accountants amongst us, this analysis doesn’t reflect inflation but nor does it apply any discounting on future costs, in the interests of keeping it simple. But the two should roughly cancel out. Where this takes me is that I think I am going to stay with Porsche (option 1). But I recognise that there will be other points of view. Summary table of costs over the next six years:

You’ll only be able to tell the right choice 6 years from now but good post

Does this take account of discounted OPC servicing costs once cars become older ? It might be worth checking this out ....

Garagiste said: I think the only thing missing from the debate is what the ultimate financial costs and risks are, from the different choices. I’m not saying by that that its just about £’s. However weighing up how much the £’s are helps focus the mind on the harder-to-quantify other costs and benefits. Yup, indeed. One thing to keep in mind is that the Approved Warranty is a profitable product. As a whole, more money is paid in than paid out to cover claims. So, some owners are subsidising the ones with the expensive repairs. The only question is how lucky you feel. I’d also imagine more modern cars would have higher risk of expensive repairs due to increased complexity.

c3m said: So, some owners are subsidising the ones with the expensive repairs. Porsche are collecting cash from everyone and picking up some repair costs. You can be darned sure Porsche are getting more income than outgoings simply because they control the cost of the warranty. Nobody is subsidising anyone.

Panamax said: Porsche are collecting cash from everyone and picking up some repair costs. You can be darned sure Porsche are getting more income than outgoings simply because they control the cost of the warranty. Nobody is subsidising anyone. When your engine goes pop and a new short block costs £10-20k, your warranty premiums will never cover the full repair costs. Others are subsidising your repairs.

Garagiste said: If i go ‘half and half’ and extend the warranty but have the servicing done by an Indie I save just over £4k. If I quit the Porsche ecosystem completely and don’t renew my warranty I save nearly £11k. I thought we'd just established above you can't go 'half and half'. You're either balls deep or your not? Just for balance a lot of issues can be fixed within certain parts with an Indy who knows that particular part and the components available. OPC don't use this model, they just fit a new part at the full cost which can over inflate the real cost (warranty or otherwise) of a repair.

Garagiste said: If I go option 3 I save a five figure sum but now not only take the risk on resale value but also of a major repair at my cost and risk. Thanks for sharing the numbers. Interesting. One of the issues on warranty value is believing a repair could lead to a “four figure bill,” but such figures are often quoted by those with warranty, which - as we know - will include OPC extortionate labour rate which could make up a substantial proportion of the total bill.

SV_WDC said: One of the issues on warranty value is believing a repair could lead to a “four figure bill,” but such figures are often quoted by those with warranty, which - as we know - will include OPC extortionate labour rate which could make up a substantial proportion of the total bill. The only time you can judge the value of a warranty, or any insurance for that matter, is after it has expired or in this case when you have sold the car - we can all be clever afterwards. The warranty is optional and there isn't a right or wrong answer, nobody posting on here knows anything others don't, you pays your money you takes your choice.

I'm quite surprised that people seem to struggle with how an insurance product works with the majority of people getting less value out than in and a few people getting lots more value out then they put in. Surely that's the very basis of insurance?

BertBert said: I'm quite surprised that people seem to struggle with how an insurance product works with the majority of people getting less value out than in and a few people getting lots more value out then they put in. Hang on, please don't tell us they pay out any less than they take in on any given year as well, that would be the final straw

For anyone thats interested, Further to the email which i posted a couple of days back, i asked for clarification and got this reply Dear Sir I hope my email finds you well. You can choose to have the work carried out at wherever you wish. However, should any faults occur which can be related back to the workmanship then there is a chance that a warranty claim can be declined. Kind regards Decland Richardson Personal Case Manager Porsche Customer Interaction Centre On behalf of Porsche Cars Great Britain Limited Bath Road, Calcot, Reading RG31 7SE

CK11 said: For anyone thats interested, Further to the email which i posted a couple of days back, i asked for clarification and got this reply Dear Sir I hope my email finds you well. You can choose to have the work carried out at wherever you wish. However, should any faults occur which can be related back to the workmanship then there is a chance that a warranty claim can be declined. Kind regards Decland Richardson Personal Case Manager Porsche Customer Interaction Centre On behalf of Porsche Cars Great Britain Limited Bath Road, Calcot, Reading RG31 7SE The problem with this response is that it does not address the pre approved warranty. Below is a copy from the pre approved warranty form which makes clear that if the car is serviced by a non authorised porsche service centre that makes the warranty null and void.

FrancisA said: Below is a copy from the pre approved warranty form which makes clear that if the car is serviced by a non authorised porsche service centre that makes the warranty null and void. That's not what it says. It says a claim will be excluded if the claim results from service or repair at a non-OPC. So if you take your car to a indi to replace the brake discs and they do something stupid which leads to your PCM failing, your warranty is not going to cover the cost of a replacement PCM. The clause is to stop the insurer being responsible for somebody else's poor workmanship, and also has the side effect of encouraging people do get everything done at the OPC.

FrancisA said: CK11 said: For anyone thats interested, Further to the email which i posted a couple of days back, i asked for clarification and got this reply Dear Sir I hope my email finds you well. You can choose to have the work carried out at wherever you wish. However, should any faults occur which can be related back to the workmanship then there is a chance that a warranty claim can be declined. Kind regards Decland Richardson Personal Case Manager Porsche Customer Interaction Centre On behalf of Porsche Cars Great Britain Limited Bath Road, Calcot, Reading RG31 7SE The problem with this response is that it does not address the pre approved warranty. Below is a copy from the pre approved warranty form which makes clear that if the car is serviced by a non authorised porsche service centre that makes the warranty null and void. Read what you quoted again and pay particular notice to the phrase 'results from'.

We're back to the same argument again. Even if the view holds that you can have the car serviced by an Indy with the approved warranty remaining intact what you can't seem to do is present the car for warranty renewal without it having its previous service by an OPC. So for the sake of swapping out one service (given the 2yr interval) by OPC for an Indy is it really worth it?

jeebsy said: That's not what it says. It says a claim will be excluded if the claim results from service or repair at a non-OPC. So if you take your car to a indi to replace the brake discs and they do something stupid which leads to your PCM failing, your warranty is not going to cover the cost of a replacement PCM. The clause is to stop the insurer being responsible for somebody else's poor workmanship, and also has the side effect of encouraging people do get everything done at the OPC. And how do you expect that argument to go if an issue arises and they claim it is as a result of work by an Indie? This is a huge money spinner and they will look for grey areas to avoid fulfilling warranty claims. Therefore if the argument can be made that a fault is a result of a service not being done by an authorised service centre it becomes an issue. I do believe the wording is designed to keep customers in the OPC network.

FrancisA said: I do believe the wording is designed to keep customers in the OPC network. Exactly the point I made last year - they skirt as close to saying 'you must' as the law allows. Of course OPC staff often go further and Porsche will do little to correct this. Because £250/hour.

981Boxess said: SV_WDC said: One of the issues on warranty value is believing a repair could lead to a “four figure bill,” but such figures are often quoted by those with warranty, which - as we know - will include OPC extortionate labour rate which could make up a substantial proportion of the total bill. The only time you can judge the value of a warranty, or any insurance for that matter, is after it has expired or in this case when you have sold the car - we can all be clever afterwards. The warranty is optional and there isn't a right or wrong answer, nobody posting on here knows anything others don't, you pays your money you takes your choice. Ha, thought you were going to say you can only judge the value based on whether or not you make claims against it. TBH my point was not to say anyone was right or wrong. Simply providing a further perspective related to the 'value' as many here are very opinionated that the warranty is absolutely necessary & quoting "I have had x repair & the claim amounted to £y" but simply reminding people that this is likely to be an inflated number as the OPC labour rate is extortionate. For me, this thread has presented many interesting points & certainly liked the spreadsheet post which incorporates the total cost once OPC servicing is factored into the price.

SV_WDC said: One of the issues on warranty value is believing a repair could lead to a “four figure bill,” but such figures are often quoted by those with warranty, which - as we know - will include OPC extortionate labour rate which could make up a substantial proportion of the total bill. OPCs do not receive anything like the retail rates for parts or labour for warranty work either under the manufacturers warranty nor the extended one. No manufacturer does this.

FrancisA said: And how do you expect that argument to go if an issue arises and they claim it is as a result of work by an Indie? This is a huge money spinner and they will look for grey areas to avoid fulfilling warranty claims. Therefore if the argument can be made that a fault is a result of a service not being done by an authorised service centre it becomes an issue. I do believe the wording is designed to keep customers in the OPC network. I don't disagree with you and that wording will encourage people to use the OPC for everything lest there be any hassle, but if there was a dispute about the cause of the fault and a claim being rejected, as this warranty is basically an insurance contract, the customer has recourse to the Financial Ombudsman Service. If they rejected a claim, the customer would need a letter from an engineer or specialist confirming the cause of the fault and then the ball is back in Porsche's court to prove the indi has caused the problem. So while they could in theory kick out a claim for a failed PDK because an indi changed your brake pads six months ago, they wouldn't have much of a leg to stand on.

jeebsy said: FrancisA said: And how do you expect that argument to go if an issue arises and they claim it is as a result of work by an Indie? This is a huge money spinner and they will look for grey areas to avoid fulfilling warranty claims. Therefore if the argument can be made that a fault is a result of a service not being done by an authorised service centre it becomes an issue. I do believe the wording is designed to keep customers in the OPC network. I don't disagree with you and that wording will encourage people to use the OPC for everything lest there be any hassle, but if there was a dispute about the cause of the fault and a claim being rejected, as this warranty is basically an insurance contract, the customer has recourse to the Financial Ombudsman Service. If they rejected a claim, the customer would need a letter from an engineer or specialist confirming the cause of the fault and then the ball is back in Porsche's court to prove the indi has caused the problem. So while they could in theory kick out a claim for a failed PDK because an indi changed your brake pads six months ago , they wouldn't have much of a leg to stand on. Not really. It's not proximate to the fault which occurred, and would be silly.

Bonefish Blues said: jeebsy said: FrancisA said: And how do you expect that argument to go if an issue arises and they claim it is as a result of work by an Indie? This is a huge money spinner and they will look for grey areas to avoid fulfilling warranty claims. Therefore if the argument can be made that a fault is a result of a service not being done by an authorised service centre it becomes an issue. I do believe the wording is designed to keep customers in the OPC network. I don't disagree with you and that wording will encourage people to use the OPC for everything lest there be any hassle, but if there was a dispute about the cause of the fault and a claim being rejected, as this warranty is basically an insurance contract, the customer has recourse to the Financial Ombudsman Service. If they rejected a claim, the customer would need a letter from an engineer or specialist confirming the cause of the fault and then the ball is back in Porsche's court to prove the indi has caused the problem. So while they could in theory kick out a claim for a failed PDK because an indi changed your brake pads six months ago , they wouldn't have much of a leg to stand on. Not really. It's not proximate to the fault which occurred, and would be silly. Why do they insist on N-rated tyres then? - they aren't proximate to anything on the car that's covered by warranty

Nurburgsingh said: Bonefish Blues said: jeebsy said: FrancisA said: And how do you expect that argument to go if an issue arises and they claim it is as a result of work by an Indie? This is a huge money spinner and they will look for grey areas to avoid fulfilling warranty claims. Therefore if the argument can be made that a fault is a result of a service not being done by an authorised service centre it becomes an issue. I do believe the wording is designed to keep customers in the OPC network. I don't disagree with you and that wording will encourage people to use the OPC for everything lest there be any hassle, but if there was a dispute about the cause of the fault and a claim being rejected, as this warranty is basically an insurance contract, the customer has recourse to the Financial Ombudsman Service. If they rejected a claim, the customer would need a letter from an engineer or specialist confirming the cause of the fault and then the ball is back in Porsche's court to prove the indi has caused the problem. So while they could in theory kick out a claim for a failed PDK because an indi changed your brake pads six months ago , they wouldn't have much of a leg to stand on. Not really. It's not proximate to the fault which occurred, and would be silly. Why do they insist on N-rated tyres then? - they aren't proximate to anything on the car that's covered by warranty I don't know, why do they? I'm just reading the terms of the insurance. ETA Previous thread: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... ETFA So they can insist on this to pass the 111-pointer to be able to buy the/be accepted for the warranty, but thereafter if you chose to fit non-Ns, and a fault occurred which was unrelated to their fitting (so just about everything) they would be very hard-pressed to reject a claim on those grounds. Edited by Bonefish Blues on Monday 19th February 17:45 Edited by Bonefish Blues on Monday 19th February 17:51

Bonefish Blues said: Not really. It's not proximate to the fault which occurred, and would be silly. of course. the previous poster was talking about grey areas to avoid warranty claims so i used an extreme example, but the rest of the sentence ("they wouldn't have a leg to stand on") shows that. if you take your car elsewhere for bread and butter, vanilla type work to be done then in practice the risk of a claim being declined because they think the cause is poor workmanship by a third party should be negligible, and if they try it, you have a route to challenge it.

jeebsy said: Bonefish Blues said: Not really. It's not proximate to the fault which occurred, and would be silly. of course. the previous poster was talking about grey areas to avoid warranty claims so i used an extreme example, but the rest of the sentence ("they wouldn't have a leg to stand on") shows that. if you take your car elsewhere for bread and butter, vanilla type work to be done then in practice the risk of a claim being declined because they think the cause is poor workmanship by a third party should be negligible, and if they try it, you have a route to challenge it. So the car is broken possibly in a big way you then have situation where you could be entering a lengthy argument and you wont see much in the way of goodwill because you have they havent had much business out of you

Bonefish Blues said: Not really. It's not proximate to the fault which occurred, and would be silly. The Dutch/Irish chap who deals in watches and has a YT channel had the manufacturer's warranty voided on his new Ferrari 812 because he fitted an aftermarket exhaust. They refused to replace a broken window motor which is definitely not connected to the modification. That said he's not easy to watch (shouts a lot and cameraman who must be doing an Irish Jig whilst filming!) and I suspect there's a fair amount of clickbait in the story but if it's correct Ferrari have stood their ground and the dealer doesn't want to take them on for their customer.

Armitage.Shanks said: Bonefish Blues said: Not really. It's not proximate to the fault which occurred, and would be silly. The Dutch/Irish chap who deals in watches and has a YT channel had the manufacturer's warranty voided on his new Ferrari 812 because he fitted an aftermarket exhaust. They refused to replace a broken window motor which is definitely not connected to the modification. That said he's not easy to watch (shouts a lot and cameraman who must be doing an Irish Jig whilst filming!) and I suspect there's a fair amount of clickbait in the story but if it's correct Ferrari have stood their ground and the dealer doesn't want to take them on for their customer. N-marked vs OEM spec but non N-marked tyres as against an aftermarket exhaust. I can see a clear distinction between those two though. ETA Would Ferrari seek to tie the validity of a warranty to the use of Shell lubricants I wonder, since they are their official supplier? Edited by Bonefish Blues on Monday 19th February 23:16

Armitage.Shanks said: The Dutch/Irish chap who deals in watches and has a YT channel had the manufacturer's warranty voided on his new Ferrari 812 because he fitted an aftermarket exhaust. They refused to replace a broken window motor which is definitely not connected to the modification. That said he's not easy to watch (shouts a lot and cameraman who must be doing an Irish Jig whilst filming!) and I suspect there's a fair amount of clickbait in the story but if it's correct Ferrari have stood their ground and the dealer doesn't want to take them on for their customer. he put a video out yesterday or sunday - they've said they'll do the repairs under warranty if he puts the car back to stock.

jeebsy said: I don't disagree with you and that wording will encourage people to use the OPC for everything lest there be any hassle, but if there was a dispute about the cause of the fault and a claim being rejected, as this warranty is basically an insurance contract, the customer has recourse to the Financial Ombudsman Service. If they rejected a claim, the customer would need a letter from an engineer or specialist confirming the cause of the fault and then the ball is back in Porsche's court to prove the indi has caused the problem. So while they could in theory kick out a claim for a failed PDK because an indi changed your brake pads six months ago, they wouldn't have much of a leg to stand on. Do you have any idea who long those disputes can take? 6 months is not unheard of. You have just shelled out over 60K on your dream car only to be told because you had an oil change at an Indie and your PDK is malfunctioning Porsche won’t fix it. You then have your car sitting on your drive for 6 months while you hope the FO will come down in your favour. I would rather bend over and see if it hurts! My point is do not assume that the bureaucratic process is simple and pain free.

FrancisA said: jeebsy said: I don't disagree with you and that wording will encourage people to use the OPC for everything lest there be any hassle, but if there was a dispute about the cause of the fault and a claim being rejected, as this warranty is basically an insurance contract, the customer has recourse to the Financial Ombudsman Service. If they rejected a claim, the customer would need a letter from an engineer or specialist confirming the cause of the fault and then the ball is back in Porsche's court to prove the indi has caused the problem. So while they could in theory kick out a claim for a failed PDK because an indi changed your brake pads six months ago, they wouldn't have much of a leg to stand on. Do you have any idea who long those disputes can take? 6 months is not unheard of. You have just shelled out over 60K on your dream car only to be told because you had an oil change at an Indie and your PDK is malfunctioning Porsche won’t fix it. You then have your car sitting on your drive for 6 months while you hope the FO will come down in your favour. I would rather bend over and see if it hurts! My point is do not assume that the bureaucratic process is simple and pain free. Well put and that’s it in a nutshell immaterial of what anyone likes to think other wise or clear cut here.

FrancisA said: Do you have any idea who long those disputes can take? 6 months is not unheard of. You have just shelled out over 60K on your dream car only to be told because you had an oil change at an Indie and your PDK is malfunctioning Porsche won’t fix it. You then have your car sitting on your drive for 6 months while you hope the FO will come down in your favour. I would rather bend over and see if it hurts! My point is do not assume that the bureaucratic process is simple and pain free. I was an insurance adjudicator at the Ombudsman for several years and, when I started, it was about 18 months to get your case looked at. Close to three years if you needed a final decision. The queues are down a lot now but I have a case ongoing with them about the moment about something relatively minor and we're nine months into that. The wheels of justice can turn slowly, but I honestly think the likelihood of an insurer saying 'sorry, sir, a third party changed your brake pads six months ago, that must be why your engine blew up' is negligible and they'd be on the hook for additional costs and interest too. Obviously if you get work done elsewhere you do invite the possibility of this happening, no matter how remote, but that's a decision for each individual. Personally, for stuff like pads/discs and basic wear and tear stuff, I'd have an indi do it. Anything drivetrain related, I'd probably suck it up and go to Porsche. Edited by jeebsy on Tuesday 20th February 08:02 Edited by jeebsy on Tuesday 20th February 08:30

jeebsy said: I don't disagree with you and that wording will encourage people to use the OPC for everything lest there be any hassle, but if there was a dispute about the cause of the fault and a claim being rejected, as this warranty is basically an insurance contract, the customer has recourse to the Financial Ombudsman Service. If they rejected a claim, the customer would need a letter from an engineer or specialist confirming the cause of the fault and then the ball is back in Porsche's court to prove the indi has caused the problem. So while they could in theory kick out a claim for a failed PDK because an indi changed your brake pads six months ago, they wouldn't have much of a leg to stand on. Lets introduce a real life scenario into this sea of theories. You are driving down the Autobahn, nice sunny day making reasonable progress and you hear a noise coming from the engine so you pull over. You call out ADAC who take a look and mumble a few words including kaput, whilst lining the car up to tow it to the nearest OPC, say Porsche Cologne. When it arrives and the 'Warranty' word starts getting thrown about what are they going to find when they check the service history of the car, which will be the the first thing they do? Sorry sir you appear to not have had a service for 3+ years so any work will be chargeable, how you would you like us to proceed? Are you going to start to explain to them that is has been serviced by someone who knows what they are doing who also happened to be cheaper than Porsche, sorry I meant because you prefer them to Porsche because they do a better job, the same people you are now looking to for help to dig you out of the hole you find yourself in. Who in their right mind would want to put themselves in that position just to save a few quid on servicing, knowing that they would have the Financial Ombudsman in their corner to help save the day, if they ever answer the phone? More importantly when Porsche Cologne have told you to do one, what would you do next, using just some of all that money you have saved on non OPC servicing?

981Boxess said: Lets introduce a real life scenario into this sea of theories. You are driving down the Autobahn, nice sunny day making reasonable progress and you hear a noise coming from the engine so you pull over. You call out ADAC who take a look and mumble a few words including kaput, whilst lining the car up to tow it to the nearest OPC, say Porsche Cologne. When it arrives and the 'Warranty' word starts getting thrown about what are they going to find when they check the service history of the car, which will the the first thing they do? Sorry sir you appear to not have had a service for 3+ years so any work will be chargeable, how you would you like us to proceed? Are you going to start to explain to them that is has been serviced by someone who knows what they are doing who also happened to be cheaper than Porsche, sorry I meant because you prefer them to Porsche because they do a better job, the same people you are now looking to for help to dig you out of the hole you find yourself in. Who in their right mind would want to put themselves in that position just to save a few quid on servicing, knowing that they would have the Financial Ombudsman in their corner to help save the day, if they ever answer the phone? More importantly when Porsche Cologne have told you to do one, what would you do next, using just some of all that money you have saved on non OPC servicing? This is a terrible example because Porsche wouldn't renew your warranty if you hadn't take it into them for a service at the two year interval so you would be stupid or lying to try and claim warranty cover in this event. When talking about the requirement to have your 'servicing' done by Porsche to maintain your warranty, that's your routine interval work as specific in the handbook. If Porsche don't do that, you've got no cover. That's not even up for debate. What people seem to be talking about here is taking your car somewhere else for work between the service intervals, like if you need your pads and discs changed between intervals or something minor done for an MOT. You can do that, with the caveat that if your indi does something which causes a warranty claim, Porsche can decline it. It's up to each person if they want to take the risk but Porsche get enough money between selling you the insurance and £1200 or whatever for the service without also charging you £300 to change your windscreen wipers because you're scared if someone else does it your PDK isn't covered. For simple jobs i'd be comfortable there's enough protection for an indi to do it. Anything which they could feasibly point to as having the potential to cause bigger issues, i'd take it to Porsche.

jeebsy said: When talking about the requirement to have your 'servicing' done by Porsche to maintain your warranty, that's your routine interval work as specific in the handbook. If Porsche don't do that, you've got no cover. That's not even up for debate. That's exactly what's being debated. Do read the thread

jeebsy said: This is a terrible example because Porsche wouldn't renew your warranty if you hadn't take it into them for a service at the two year interval so you would be stupid or lying to try and claim warranty cover in this event. It wouldn't show up on the Porsche system if you had it done at an indie would it? So a perfect example, if you read what I posted again. Porsche do not earn a penny from the insurance/warranty they just do the paperwork on behalf of the insurers, I get trade on everything at my OPC except warranty for that reason. They get their money from the servicing and judging by the 6 week wait to book a car in there is no shortage of people who prefer to do it that way.

jeebsy said: When talking about the requirement to have your 'servicing' done by Porsche to maintain your warranty, that's your routine interval work as specific in the handbook. If Porsche don't do that, you've got no cover. That's not even up for debate. . I agree with your general point but please do try and read the preceeding statements for Porsche before writing stuff that just isn't true.

981Boxess said: It wouldn't show up on the Porsche system if you had it done at an indie would it? So a perfect example, if you read what I posted again. Porsche do not earn a penny from the insurance/warranty they just do the paperwork on behalf of the insurers, I get trade on everything at my OPC except warranty for that reason. They get their money from the servicing and judging by the 6 week wait to book a car in there is no shortage of people who prefer to do it that way. Summary of the symbiotic relationship that exists between the two.

981Boxess said: It wouldn't show up on the Porsche system if you had it done at an indie would it? So a perfect example, if you read what I posted again. Porsche do not earn a penny from the insurance/warranty they just do the paperwork on behalf of the insurers, I get trade on everything at my OPC except warranty for that reason. They get their money from the servicing and judging by the 6 week wait to book a car in there is no shortage of people who prefer to do it that way. I would be pretty surprised if Porsche / the franchise don't take anything from the sale. My demands and needs statement was done by Sytner, so they handled the sales process, are regulated in their own right and would be on the hook for complaints about the sales itself. Someone selling insurance and taking 0% commission would be pretty unusual. Not that it can't happen, but i think the regulator would find that a bit sus. I was just going through the policy document again to read the terms and interestingly, the Synter document says 'I understand that I am committing to having my Porsche maintained and repaired at a Porsche Centre or Authorised Service centre for the duration of the warranty policy'. Looking at the warranty wording in isolation and excluding what i was told/sent by the OPC, i'm going to row back a bit - it does look a lot more opaque and so long as as the car has been serviced in line with the guidelines, there doesn't seem to be a requirement about who does it. The point about if you want to even give them the option of declining a claim because someone else has worked on the car still stands though, minor service items which aren't going to have any conceivable impact on a 'big ticket' component failing I would be happy to do elsewhere, but drivetrain etc, I would probably suck it up and let Porsche do it for peace of mind. Edited by jeebsy on Tuesday 20th February 11:21

981Boxess said: Porsche do not earn a penny from the insurance/warranty they just do the paperwork on behalf of the insurers, I get trade on everything at my OPC except warranty for that reason. They get their money from the servicing and judging by the 6 week wait to book a car in there is no shortage of people who prefer to do it that way. It would be astonishing if Porsche didn't earn money from the warranty. Obviously they do!

981Boxess said: It wouldn't show up on the Porsche system if you had it done at an indie would it? So a perfect example, if you read what I posted again. Porsche do not earn a penny from the insurance/warranty they just do the paperwork on behalf of the insurers, I get trade on everything at my OPC except warranty for that reason. They get their money from the servicing and judging by the 6 week wait to book a car in there is no shortage of people who prefer to do it that way. Porsche are a business so I fail to see how they would not be earning some money from the warranty. They have not just handed this over to some insurance company with no business plan for a some profitability.

jeebsy said: I was just going through the policy document again to read the terms and interestingly, the Synter document says 'I understand that I am committing to having my Porsche maintained and repaired at a Porsche Centre or Authorised Service centre for the duration of the warranty policy'. What's the difference between an [Official] Porsche Centre and a Authorised Service Centre? If it's somewhere like Syntner Select that sells secondhand Porsche I dread to think what the service is like judging by how they present some of the cars for sale.

BertBert said: 981Boxess said: Porsche do not earn a penny from the insurance/warranty they just do the paperwork on behalf of the insurers, I get trade on everything at my OPC except warranty for that reason. They get their money from the servicing and judging by the 6 week wait to book a car in there is no shortage of people who prefer to do it that way. It would be astonishing if Porsche didn't earn money from the warranty. Obviously they do! I was told that by a mate that works at an OPC who is well placed to know. It made no sense to me either but he had nothing to gain by making it up and knowing him I had no reason to doubt him.

Picking up on this older thread Any experience (good or bad) of claiming on a Used Approve warranty after a non dealer service? My car is coming up for it's 12 year service. Saving between OPC and Indy is £400 (£2300 vs £1900) and the Indy is much more convenient, OPC will require a day off work, a journey across town and hanging around for the day. Indy will collect. Need to decide as I need to think about if I will extend the warranty in Feb?

LastPoster said: Picking up on this older thread Any experience (good or bad) of claiming on a Used Approve warranty after a non dealer service? My car is coming up for it's 12 year service. Saving between OPC and Indy is £400 (£2300 vs £1900) and the Indy is much more convenient, OPC will require a day off work, a journey across town and hanging around for the day. Indy will collect. Need to decide as I need to think about if I will extend the warranty in Feb? They won't extend it unless the most recent service is at an OPC iirc.

honda_exige said: LastPoster said: Picking up on this older thread Any experience (good or bad) of claiming on a Used Approve warranty after a non dealer service? My car is coming up for it's 12 year service. Saving between OPC and Indy is £400 (£2300 vs £1900) and the Indy is much more convenient, OPC will require a day off work, a journey across town and hanging around for the day. Indy will collect. Need to decide as I need to think about if I will extend the warranty in Feb? They won't extend it unless the most recent service is at an OPC iirc. I went and had a chat with the Indy, and they said they have had customers have issues when taking a car back to an OPC after the Indy have completed a service and found a warranty issue. The OPC would not recognise the service record as complete and declined the claim. At best the customer had to pay for the service again. They recommended I stick with OPC servicing whilst in warranty, so that’s that.

LastPoster said: honda_exige said: LastPoster said: Picking up on this older thread Any experience (good or bad) of claiming on a Used Approve warranty after a non dealer service? My car is coming up for it's 12 year service. Saving between OPC and Indy is £400 (£2300 vs £1900) and the Indy is much more convenient, OPC will require a day off work, a journey across town and hanging around for the day. Indy will collect. Need to decide as I need to think about if I will extend the warranty in Feb? They won't extend it unless the most recent service is at an OPC iirc. I went and had a chat with the Indy, and they said they have had customers have issues when taking a car back to an OPC after the Indy have completed a service and found a warranty issue. The OPC would not recognise the service record as complete and declined the claim. At best the customer had to pay for the service again. They recommended I stick with OPC servicing whilst in warranty, so that’s that. I service with OPC to avoid ballache issues like that, not worth the aggro but I don't think that would stand up in court as it's contrary to their T&Cs. I get my indy to do brake fluid though as I put good stuff in, the Porsche lady tried to say my warranty would be at risk, I emailed her their own T&Cs with the relevant section highlighted and got her to admit she was mistaken. They'll try anything.

At 12 years old I’ll be taking on all work on my gt4 myself! No warranty as modified and it’s a keeper so nothing to loose only silly money on services, I’ll buy all parts form my OPC and file it, take pics of process, print and file as well, besides that, at least I’ll know the works been done to my standard process and my cars been treated how I would like it looked after.

I probably could self service as the bit I didn’t mention as it’s not relevant yet is my mate is a mechanic at the Indy I’m happy to stay under warranty for now though