GT4 fast road brake pads - PFC's and which compound - Page 2 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Apologies there are probably many threads about this subject but I don't rate the forum search and couldn't find exactly what I am looking for. 718 GT4 with iron discs. I want to replace the OEM pads, which I've used for one track day and were terrible. I don't intend to do many track days so I need a setup that works well for fast road driving as I go to the Alps etc but when I do go to a track they need to work. I'm thinking PFC's but has anyone tried them and if so which compounds? Options in stock are 331/332 and 11's. I'm not overly concerned about disc wear but I'd like to avoid break squeal so my Wife will still entertain road trips etc. Input and recommendations welcome. Thanks

lotusgeek said: Apologies there are probably many threads about this subject but I don't rate the forum search and couldn't find exactly what I am looking for. 718 GT4 with iron discs. I want to replace the OEM pads, which I've used for one track day and were terrible. I don't intend to do many track days so I need a setup that works well for fast road driving as I go to the Alps etc but when I do go to a track they need to work. I'm thinking PFC's but has anyone tried them and if so which compounds? Options in stock are 331/332 and 11's. I'm not overly concerned about disc wear but I'd like to avoid break squeal so my Wife will still entertain road trips etc. Input and recommendations welcome. Thanks Can only speak for 11s. Great pads but dusty and squeaky.

Discombobulate said: Can only speak for 11s. Great pads but dusty and squeaky. Thanks very much.

What was the issue with standard pads? Doing Snetters next month, 1st time on standard brake setup so interested to know the shortcomings of stock pads

Use the OEM pads up and then change for something else more focused for track work if you do a lot days.

cseven said: What was the issue with standard pads? Doing Snetters next month, 1st time on standard brake setup so interested to know the shortcomings of stock pads I’m also interested in this. I’ve found the standard pads to be great.

cseven said: What was the issue with standard pads? Doing Snetters next month, 1st time on standard brake setup so interested to know the shortcomings of stock pads My car is a 2023 model and I suspect the compounds have changed to meet some legislation and have less copper in them. So you might not have the issue or I could be wrong and maybe they are all the same. I've had issues with the pads binding to the discs. Fine on the road but on track they didn't feel good at all. Vibrations and a terrible grumbling under hard braking. I've read somewhere else that someone had the same issue. A friend drove the car and he was really struggling to feel confident. If you never track the car I'm sure it's fine but even for one track day I wouldn't use them again. Enjoy the track, the car is great.

Also had a 2023 GT4. Did a track day at Snetterton and stock pads weren't up to it. I strongly suspect compound was issue and pretty sure there was a Rennlist thread on it being an issue on later builds. I’ve done Snetterton a lot in a modified 987 and although fast road pads are better than stock the stock pads didn’t suffer any thing like in the way the GT4s did but the GT4 is faster so they have more work to do!

Discombobulate said: Can only speak for 11s. Great pads but dusty and squeaky. Just to add, I only ran PFC discs and pads on the front when tracking my GT3.The standard set up was fine for the rear. May be different for the GT4, but try changing the front first possibly?

Discombobulate said: Just to add, I only ran PFC discs and pads on the front when tracking my GT3.The standard set up was fine for the rear. May be different for the GT4, but try changing the front first possibly? Thanks.

G40R_JL said: Also had a 2023 GT4. Did a track day at Snetterton and stock pads weren't up to it. I strongly suspect compound was issue and pretty sure there was a Rennlist thread on it being an issue on later builds. I’ve done Snetterton a lot in a modified 987 and although fast road pads are better than stock the stock pads didn’t suffer any thing like in the way the GT4s did but the GT4 is faster so they have more work to do! Sorry you had the same problem but glad it isn't just me and reassuring you think the same. I reckon the rear pads wore by over 50% in one track day!

PFC 331 front and 332 rears

Parr have just swapped the PCCB’s on my 4RS for a full steel PFC disc and pad set up plus track geo. The PFC’s were excellent at Silverstone 2weeks ago. Give Parr in Crawley a call and ask to speak to Laurence and I am sure he will give you some advice.

I loved the performance of the PFC rotors on my 981 GT4. Only slight issues were: 1- sometimes disruption in supply when trying to get hold of replacement friction discs… so I managed by ordering well in advance of requiring a change. 2 - they use a single retaining spring… either 2 coil or 3 coil…. After a few heat cycles the spring gets weaker and you’ll get a rattle as the friction disc is fully floating (radial & axial). Most prevalent in the 2 coil spring version. Can be an annoyance on the road. They have subsequently rebranded these as the ‘race version’ lol. So just check what you have. Product marketing 101: Turn an issue into a feature! Edited by TDT on Saturday 27th April 09:54

RPM and JZM both recommended standard porsche steel discs and RSL29s all round for fast road, sprints and occasional track days. I found them to be excellent.

That's very useful to know ... I have been recommended some Ferodo pads ... I'll ask which ! The problem with the 410mm PCCB disc on the 20" wheels is getting stones trapped between the calliper and the rim ... I'm surprised since Surface Transform have simply replicated the size of the PCCB but also fit in place of the 380mm steel discs, that they didn't just make the front disc a little smaller and the same size as the rear ??

Ref STs.., as you know… Primary Porsche audience is PCCB replacement… so why not produce at the same size as OEM The development costs are then amortised further by being able to resolve for Steel upgrade also, with just adding calliper spacer rather than having to calculate if 380mm CCST would work… Also they probably don’t see calliper down spacing as their problem… so fine they make a smaller spacer for Steel rotors… for say a 400mm rotor for the front… probably not worth it in their eyes… seeing as they seemingly wont even help at all with spare bells for people to convert from ‘Turbo hub’ to ‘GT3 Hub’ which might be a larger use case and actually would cost them nothing, apart from advice, and would be some additional revenue/product line. Just boils down to business. The main issue with 9x1 and prior steel rotors is the cracking due to full cross-drilling. So you ‘might’ end up needing to change them frequently, in a heavy track usage scenario. The 9x2 rotors such as on 992 GT3/RS and 4RS are only dimpled… so cracking risk is heavily reduced and the rotor much more durable. Brakes (pads/rotors) are a consumable, so just depends on how/when you want to spend. Edited by TDT on Sunday 28th April 10:03

gtsralph said: PFC 331 front and 332 rears Thanks, this is what is now on order anyhow.

NS13 said: Parr have just swapped the PCCB’s on my 4RS for a full steel PFC disc and pad set up plus track geo. The PFC’s were excellent at Silverstone 2weeks ago. Give Parr in Crawley a call and ask to speak to Laurence and I am sure he will give you some advice. Thanks, I'm going to do the same when my discs need replacing.

Snowy999 said: RPM and JZM both recommended standard porsche steel discs and RSL29s all round for fast road, sprints and occasional track days. I found them to be excellent. Cheers, gone PFC now but maybe Pagids if they don't work out

TDT said: Ref STs.., as you know… Primary Porsche audience is PCCB replacement… so why not produce at the same size as OEM The development costs are then amortised further by being able to resolve for Steel upgrade also, with just adding calliper spacer rather than having to calculate if 380mm CCST would work… Also they probably don’t see calliper down spacing as their problem… so fine they make a smaller spacer for Steel rotors… for say a 400mm rotor for the front… probably not worth it in their eyes… seeing as they seemingly wont even help at all with spare bells for people to convert from ‘Turbo hub’ to ‘GT3 Hub’ which might be a larger use case and actually would cost them nothing, apart from advice, and would be some additional revenue/product line. Just boils down to business. The main issue with 9x1 and prior steel rotors is the cracking due to full cross-drilling. So you ‘might’ end up needing to change them frequently, in a heavy track usage scenario. The 9x2 rotors such as on 992 GT3/RS and 4RS are only dimpled… so cracking risk is heavily reduced and the rotor much more durable. Brakes (pads/rotors) are a consumable, so just depends on how/when you want to spend. Edited by TDT on Sunday 28th April 10:03 Just seen this .... Maybe this is why Surface Transform are trying to sell what they can sell as complete kits ? There is more reading in the recent update if you care to look ....

The Ferodo's suggested were DS 3.12 ... apparently they don't screech in the way that RSL29's do ? Any experience ? Edited by ChrisW. on Monday 29th April 14:56

Definitely the major part of the picture - drive sales volume as much as possible. As per any other business. Share price has taken a massive hit.. but that isn't a reflection on the product... more just the ST board ability to met shareholder targets that they set - with a technically challenge product with a lot of seeming headwind. Every report I've seen from them says the same thing. Quarter after quarter... manage scrap, scale capacity. Edited by TDT on Monday 29th April 16:37

There is no doubt that the product is superb ... and I guess they know why they need "process" for apparently ordinary things, but it doesn't come-over currently as being very customer focussed. Maybe their hands are so tied. It's also now a concern if the arithmetic makes sense with refurbishments that may not be available ... at the moment I would suggest to anybody that a refurbishment would be a bonus and to base a purchasing decision on single life use ... 50 fast trackways and five sets of pads versus the alternative ? To be fair, PCCB's potentially finished at 30? fast trackdays and eight or nine sets of pads would offer a reasonable comparison. Less determined drivers will obviously get more on both ... but this may no longer be the "no-brainer" that it was.

TDT said: Definitely the major part of the picture - drive sales volume as much as possible. As per any other business. Share price has taken a massive hit.. but that isn't a reflection on the product... more just the ST board ability to met shareholder targets that they set - with a technically challenge product with a lot of seeming headwind. Every report I've seen from them says the same thing. Quarter after quarter... manage scrap, scale capacity. The share price was around 20 times higher in 2021! They must have been some very big promises/targets...

Surface Transforms share price now below 1p ... I looked at Alcon but no Porsche equivalents ... GiroDisc with their caliper mod to avoid the claimed risk of stripping the mounting thread on the "expensive" upright ?

ChrisW. said: Surface Transforms share price now below 1p ... I looked at Alcon but no Porsche equivalents ... GiroDisc with their caliper mod to avoid the claimed risk of stripping the mounting thread on the "expensive" upright ? They've just announced a significant fundraising at 1p per share... https://polaris.brighterir.com/public/surface_tran...

Well I hope they make it ... I have been delighted with the quality of the product ... I've just been bound up in their obvious struggles this year ... From the prospectus my concern would be the origin of the contacts in place that they are depending upon ... Aston Martin ? McLaren ? ... life is a mystery !

ChrisW. said: Well I hope they make it ... I have been delighted with the quality of the product ... I've just been bound up in their obvious struggles this year ... From the prospectus my concern would be the origin of the contacts in place that they are depending upon ... Aston Martin ? McLaren ? ... life is a mystery ! They talk about nearly £400m of contracts, so surely that implies they have contracts with all the super car manufacturers? They also talk about breaking into the EV market. I'd be amazed if they fail within 18 months - that would mean their advisors, directors and investors didn't do their due diligence on this fundraise and could face further consequences.

BandOfBrothers said: They've just announced a significant fundraising at 1p per share... https://polaris.brighterir.com/public/surface_tran... This is a second fund raising round in the last 24 months, first also involved shareholder dilution, which is partially why the share price is in the toilet. Losses in 22, bigger losses in 23, 24 is apparently the point they’ll turn it around with healthy profits in ‘25. However for shareholders ST have been a perpetual jam tomorrow situation for many years. ST are in the process of scaling volumes due to demand. The first funding round in ‘22 was supposed to provide all the capital needed for the scaling project. Some of losses come from this scaling and production not being up to scratch quality wise. The second round appears to be intended to provide working capital. Historically they’ve been very conservative when it comes to investment and growth, reinvesting profits rather than taking on debits. This hasn’t been great for investors seeking returns mind. I wouldn’t worry about them going pop, if they got near to that point a larger manufacturer will snap them up for the technology. Anyway back to PFC have they changed something recently? Either I’m a hand fisted clown or the wear sensor cutout is now too small for the OE sensors. I’ve managed to snap my entire bag of spare sensors trying a simple allround pad change. Not a good day TBH. Don’t get me wrong the sensor cut out in the backing plate used to be tight but with a little force I could get the sensors in… 11 compound pad if that matters, not suited to fast road but excellent on track when you can actually find stock. PFC really do need to sort out their supply chain / stock management issues.