First service - how much? - Page 4 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

With 2 years and 10,000 miles under the belt of my 981S it's time for first "minor service". OPC have generously informed me their charge will be £480 plus £150 for the brake fluid change so a total of £630 Is this par for the course?

Yes.

Yes that does sound exactly right. I'd be interested to know how much of that is labour and long it takes them.

Dont forget that it will need new front discs and pads. Also, one tyre has a cut in it, but you will have to fit a pair. So, should be about 1.5k all in.

My last service cost £2500. But, to be fair, they also were kind enough to f k up the drive belt so that I was back in 4 days with it having flown off while driving.

Haggle and if that doesn't work, go to an indie. However if you have an extended (beyond 2 years) warranty and want to keep it, grab some lube and bend over, because there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

I think that's about the score. No point playing games with a year of warranty still to run and the car needs minor recall work, plus another small adjustment. I guess that "annualised" at £300 a year it doesn't hurt quite so much!

You won't get much change from £300 servicing a fancy hatchback these days, so it sounds like a bargain for a Porsche.

SkinnyP said: You won't get much change from £300 servicing a fancy hatchback these days, so it sounds like a bargain for a Porsche. Exactly right, I'm running a Civic Type R at the moment and the dealer takes around £300 off me each year for a service However they don't suggest pads and discs need replacing at the first service !...are OPC's really that picky ?

It's not really about being picky. In my fairly limited experience, it's just about getting away with as much as they can in terms of generating work for themselves and cost for you. I doubt many people get away with less than £1k spent any time Porsche West London gets hold of their car, for example.

Make sure the screen wash is brimmed before you take it in!

SkinnyP said: You won't get much change from £300 servicing a fancy hatchback these days, so it sounds like a bargain for a Porsche. Ha! by the time the dealer has "found" a few non-warranty things, your minor service will top £800 Then a major service will go well over £1200. In four years they will rape your wallet to the tune of a minimum of £2000. About £500 a year. Latest Golf R service plan for 4 years/ 40k miles is £579

ilduce said: Latest Golf R service plan for 4 years/ 40k miles is £579 Two ways to look at this. Dealers taking a huge hit with servicing costs i.e. loosing money with about £100 per hour labour rates, plus 4-5 litres of fully synthetic oil and filters at each service...car being properly checked over and looked after. Or Dealer doing basically nothing to the car for four years. I wonder which one it is...I'd be worried.

Klippie said: ilduce said: Latest Golf R service plan for 4 years/ 40k miles is £579 Two ways to look at this. Dealers taking a huge hit with servicing costs i.e. loosing money with about £100 per hour labour rates, plus 4-5 litres of fully synthetic oil and filters at each service...car being properly checked over and looked after. Or Dealer doing basically nothing to the car for four years. I wonder which one it is...I'd be worried. Or possibly the VW service price is right and Porsche are taking the pis5. "yes sir, your discs are worn out after only 23k miles and the original set of pads" "yes sir, £150 to replace brake fluid, that doesn't really need replacing" "yes sir, £130 to do a £49 check on your air con that's working perfectly" "yes sir, £230 to do a £75 geometry check" "yes sir, £250 for a £70 battery" "yes sir, £2000 to change all the shock absorbers. (Fortunately the worn out ones healed themselves by the time they check them 20k miles later.)" You can't have ever owned a modern Porsche.

£250 for a £70 battery, you mean £7.0 right...

SkinnyP said: £250 for a £70 battery, you mean £7.0 right... No, it's worse... Porsche charge the dealer £7, but Porsche actually buy them here:

To be fair to them, if you don't have a warranty they are haggleable. I got my local OPC to do a major service inc MOT for £500 (matched the indie). I asked how long the spark plugs were good for, I can't remember now, but it's at least 60k and my car had done 15k. They're £90 to swap, told them not to bother. Little things like that will save a surprising amount when it comes to things that simply don't need to be done. Used an indie for the last 'smalll one and that was £250. Brakes, DIY, it's not hard and a full set of Pagid disks and pads isn't horrific from Euro Car Parts (under £400 IIRC, I've only done the pads so far). Don't run the pads too low though as it can rub through to the sensors and you'll need new ones (if the light comes on it's too late). There's one on each corner if you do. Easy to re-use them however if you get to them before hand. Not having a warranty also allows you do do things like fit a battery that isn't a complete bag of s t.

If you must get the service done at an OPC, do as others have said and try to haggle. For the brake fluid change, I'd take it to any decent independent garage. They'd probably do it for under £75. Brakes are easy to do. Many guides on YouTube and Porsche forums. The Brembos are easier to do than normal cars with sliding calipers. As the Brembos have pistons on each side of the brake disc, they are fixed and so come off when you undo two bolts at the back of the caliper. Then, the caliper comes right off and you can change the disc too.

Only need to take the caliper off to swap the disc. Pads come out of the back with it in place.

My '58 Cayman minor serviced at Byfleet last week = £697 inc. brake fluid and MOT. Pretty satisfied with that as my first OPC service experience. Nice 'traffic light' report indicating a few horrors ahead in 2 years time though. I never expected owning a Porsche to be light on my wallet. Hasn't cost a lot more than my old Z4 yet either......

kipperonabike said: My '58 Cayman minor serviced at Byfleet last week = £697 inc. brake fluid and MOT. Pretty satisfied with that as my first OPC service experience. Nice 'traffic light' report indicating a few horrors ahead in 2 years time though. I never expected owning a Porsche to be light on my wallet. Hasn't cost a lot more than my old Z4 yet either...... If you are happy with that then all well and good. In comparison, however, I've just had my 07 CS at my local indy for a minor service, new front discs and pads and an MOT and it came to less than what you've just paid.

Trev450 said: If you are happy with that then all well and good. In comparison, however, I've just had my 07 CS at my local indy for a minor service, new front discs and pads and an MOT and it came to less than what you've just paid. 'Happy' is probably not the best word...but I'm warrantied for another 12 months so will stick with the programme until then, then review whole situation and very likely go warranty-less/indy.

kipperonabike said: Trev450 said: If you are happy with that then all well and good. In comparison, however, I've just had my 07 CS at my local indy for a minor service, new front discs and pads and an MOT and it came to less than what you've just paid. 'Happy' is probably not the best word...but I'm warrantied for another 12 months so will stick with the programme until then, then review whole situation and very likely go warranty-less/indy. Don't be a girl! Haggle. I always did and always got some discount.

ilduce said: SkinnyP said: You won't get much change from £300 servicing a fancy hatchback these days, so it sounds like a bargain for a Porsche. Latest Golf R service plan for 4 years/ 40k miles is £579 My B7 RS4 was approx £200 minor / £300 major plus occasional £70 ish brake fluid IIRC My Porsche indie charges £290 for minor by way of comparison for OP

Adam B said: ilduce said: SkinnyP said: You won't get much change from £300 servicing a fancy hatchback these days, so it sounds like a bargain for a Porsche. Latest Golf R service plan for 4 years/ 40k miles is £579 My B7 RS4 was approx £200 minor / £300 major plus occasional £70 ish brake fluid IIRC My Porsche indie charges £290 for minor by way of comparison for OP He has a warranty so an independent is not really an option.

Adam B said: My Porsche indie charges £290 for minor by way of comparison for OP Can't say I'm surprised. Doesn't look like much activity for £630. See below, "Minor Service £480 - Fault code analysis - Replacement of oil filter and engine oil using Porsche recommended Mobil 1 oil - Replacement of pollen filter - Inspection for: leaks and abrasions, the vehicle's underside and engine bay, coolant hoses, coolant (level and antifreeze check), air intake, radiator, brake system, brake hoses and lines, drive shafts, tyres, locks and latches, electrical equipment, horn, windscreen wiper washing system and lighting system (including headlights and indicators - Items tested during test drive include (if applicable): remote control, front seats, foot and parking brake, engine, clutch, steering, transmission, ParkAssist, speed control, PSM switch, PASM switch, sport switch, heating, air conditioning system and instruments - Final post drive level check is then conducted "Brake Fluid Change £150 The brake fluid induces moisture into the fluid and affects the braking performance. The replacement of brake fluid is not mileage dependant and to ensure your brakes perform at their optimum we recommend that the fluid is changed every 2 years.

ilduce said: He has a warranty so an independent is not really an option. I know, which is why I said "by way of comparison" - just to demonstrate what a rip off OPC prices are. £480 for an oil change, quick joyride in your car and a check over to see if they can charge you for anything else

Adam B said: I know, which is why I said "by way of comparison" - just to demonstrate what a rip off OPC prices are. £480 for an oil change, quick joyride in your car and a check over to see if they can charge you for anything else It is borderline absurd. Of that £630, about £500 must be pure profit no matter now you cut the numbers.

ORD said: It is borderline absurd. Of that £630, about £500 must be pure profit no matter now you cut the numbers. Gross profit yes But from that the dealership has to deduct expensive rent, rates, mgt wages, pretty receptionists and all that coffee. None of which I care about hence use an indie

The prices are on the Porsche UK website... http://porscheownerservices.co.uk/ If what you've been charged is different to that then id be kicking up a stink with Porsche GB.

Adam B said: ORD said: It is borderline absurd. Of that £630, about £500 must be pure profit no matter now you cut the numbers. Gross profit yes But from that the dealership has to deduct expensive rent, rates, mgt wages, pretty receptionists and all that coffee. None of which I care about hence use an indie Sure but £500 for what, about 30 mins, is a hell of a contribution to overheads. I wonder what proportion of an OPC's gross profit (using your definition) comes from servicing. I expect that giving away the warranty might not even generate a loss once you take into account the tie-in effect.

From my days of working in franchised dealerships, the bulk of the profits came from the service and parts departments.

ilduce said: He has a warranty so an independent is not really an option. You can use any garage and still qualify for the warranty, as long as they use OPC parts. OPC might get funny about renewing the warranty, but I expect the commission from the new warranty would overcome this. Legally they can't make you use OPC, it's non-competiitve, restraint of customer choice, etc etc. See the AA website who confirm this position.

See the thread's taken its usual course.

ORD said: Sure but £500 for what, about 30 mins, is a hell of a contribution to overheads. So what do you think pre-tax net margin % of an OPC is?

Magic919 said: See the thread's taken its usual course. At least it's correct now!

Adam B said: So what do you think pre-tax net margin % of an OPC is? Assuming that you mean pre-tax profit, it'll be pretty much whatever the accountants are told to make it. In seriousness, I expect that they roll huge profits on servicing and that car sales make a lower contribution to overheads than might be expected. If you are asking me to express a view on whether or not OPCs are flabby and poorly run so don't turn the profit that might be expected from the prices... To a greater or lesser extent, they exhibit the typical characteristics of monopolists - high prices, high overheads, inefficiency, poor customer service, moderate profits, etc

Buts its only £320 for the first 2 years, to me a bargain for a 'premium brand'. Our Kia Rio is 12 month servicing and cost £200 for the first service which didn't include oil! My T350T TVR averaged £1200 a year but it did benefit from near zero depreciation. Paul

Good luck walking out of an OPC only £300 poorer.. :-) You'll probably find that you need a new roof or steering wheel.

I did, second year service on my Cayman £480 + £150 brake fluid and I asked for a discount when I booked it in and got 10%. Paul

I thing he means £320 per year over two....

10% discount is pretty normal isnt it? Anyone can get that if you just ask!

I have always asked for and received a discount - just a polite enquiry when I book the service.

abby030976 said: ilduce said: He has a warranty so an independent is not really an option. You can use any garage and still qualify for the warranty, as long as they use OPC parts. OPC might get funny about renewing the warranty, but I expect the commission from the new warranty would overcome this. Legally they can't make you use OPC, it's non-competiitve, restraint of customer choice, etc etc. See the AA website who confirm this position. In theory maybe, in reality, you'd have more chance of having a baby out of your bum.

ilduce said: In theory maybe, in reality, you'd have more chance of having a baby out of your bum. The warranty is an insurance policy regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority. You would have recourse to the financial services ombudsman in the event they refused a claim. The ombudsman is generally favourable to the consumer. If the fault had nothing to do with service schedules this issue wouldn't even be considered. If the fault could have been service related, as long as you could show it had been serviced as per Porsche service intervals using OPC parts then you would be fine. The ombudsman would not allow Porsche to wriggle out of an insurance policy. The outcome would be fair to the consumer. I speak from experience of the ombudsman from my work as a Solicitor. You might have to pay for the work initially if they refused the claim. The cost would be ordered back to you by the ombudsman, as long as the car had been looked after properly as per the service intervals etc. The AA wouldn't offer advice that other garages could be used if it wasn't correct. Edited by abby030976 on Saturday 30th August 00:44

I think the difficulty with a number of the points you raise is that the onus is on the consumer to do the doing. Furthermore, how would an owner prove that torque settings were correct, oil fully drained etc? Stamps and receipts are not evidence of workmanship. It strikes me as strongly in the interests of the consumer to avoid the aggro by going with the opc. I say that as someone who generally avoids extended warranties, but I am interested in the points you raise. I don't doubt they are true for insurance backed warranties not affiliated with a garage or manufacturer, but is that the difference with the porsche warranty?

abby030976 said: The warranty is an insurance policy regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority. You would have recourse to the financial services ombudsman in the event they refused a claim. The ombudsman is generally favourable to the consumer. If the fault had nothing to do with service schedules this issue wouldn't even be considered. If the fault could have been service related, as long as you could show it had been serviced as per Porsche service intervals using OPC parts then you would be fine. The ombudsman would not allow Porsche to wriggle out of an insurance policy. The outcome would be fair to the consumer. I speak from experience of the ombudsman from my work as a Solicitor. You might have to pay for the work initially if they refused the claim. The cost would be ordered back to you by the ombudsman, as long as the car had been looked after properly as per the service intervals etc. The AA wouldn't offer advice that other garages could be used if it wasn't correct. This is my understanding. Some fleet operators use indys to service cars under warranty (cheaper) and providing they service to manufacturers standard and same specification the warranty still holds. This is similar for extended insurance back warrantys. However if the engine goes pop the aggro and onus is on you to prove the service was indeed carried out correctly. Personally I'm going with the first service with opc (£980 for me - the ac pack and brake fuild must have gold flecks in it) then specialist Indy with no extended warranty and a sensible running commentary on what needs doing.

griffter said: I think the difficulty with a number of the points you raise is that the onus is on the consumer to do the doing. Furthermore, how would an owner prove that torque settings were correct, oil fully drained etc? Stamps and receipts are not evidence of workmanship. It strikes me as strongly in the interests of the consumer to avoid the aggro by going with the opc. I say that as someone who generally avoids extended warranties, but I am interested in the points you raise. I don't doubt they are true for insurance backed warranties not affiliated with a garage or manufacturer, but is that the difference with the porsche warranty? It's a regultated insurance policy. Financial services ombudsman applies.

Real world: Hello OPC. I've had it serviced, as required, by an indy and now I'd like a Porsche warranty. Certainly sir, we'll just do the 111 point check, while you wait, for 2 hours, because you can't have a loan car, sorry. FOUR HOURS LATER I seems there are many things to put right before we can issue your warranty. Shi77y little things, but expensive as well, that we probably would have overlooked or sorted free when you got your warranty. Oh, and in the end it will cost you more than you saved by having it serviced elsewhere. Thankyouverymuchsir!

I think that's about the score. Trying to save £200 on the first service of a £50,000 car with a 3-year warranty just isn't worth the risk.

There always seems to be a fair bit of negativity around service charges and warranty issues from OPCs but after 5 years with my Boxster I have to say my experience has generally been positive. I have to say I bought the car with my eyes wide open and after lots of BMWs and Mercs I knew that maintenance etc. was likely to be comparatively a little more expensive. Ultimately I didn't buy it with the objective of saving money. I've renewed my warranty twice and so far I've more than had my money back, no quibbles no issues and on the last occasion I was offered a Cayman S as a loaner because they needed the car a day longer than anticipated. Frankly the service so far has been great. Because of that I have the car serviced at the OPC and never felt that I've been charged more that the published prices and have only ever had the front pads (not discs) replaced. I've now added a Macan to the family car pool and I suspect that will go the same way. I get that people want/need to save money and there are some very good indies out there (used one very good one when I had 924s/944s a couple of decades ago) but if you feel you're getting a good service and your expectations are being met then as the saying goes you pays your money you makes your choice.

Miopyk said: and have only ever had the front pads (not discs) replaced You must use the only honest OPC in the UK.

ilduce said: Miopyk said: and have only ever had the front pads (not discs) replaced You must use the only honest OPC in the UK. "They all need replacing every 10,000 miles or so. Heavy use, you see, really wears them out. Then again, light use will also wear them out quite quickly. Moderate use is a killer, though, and will definitely wear them out quickly."

ORD said: ilduce said: Miopyk said: and have only ever had the front pads (not discs) replaced You must use the only honest OPC in the UK. "They all need replacing every 10,000 miles or so. Heavy use, you see, really wears them out. Then again, light use will also wear them out quite quickly. Moderate use is a killer, though, and will definitely wear them out quickly." "yes sir, I know the car has only done 22000 miles and the pads have never been changed but you'll need new discs too"

Washing the car is the biggest killer.

Well, it all went fine at OPC. And a polite enquiry even achieved a modest discount (£25) on the brake fluid change. With a bit of luck the car won't be back at the dealership for another two years. My loan car was Boxster S with PDK, chrono package etc. The "Sport Plus" button seemed pretty wild, red-lining the car in every gear and banging in the gear changes. Can't imagine the car would last very long with that one pressed! Nor your driving licence...

Because I use my 981 quite hard, thought I would have a first oil change at 10,000 miles, the cost, a princely £327 from my OPC. Roll on the car running out of warrantee, by then someone will have cracked Porsche's software, and no doubt bigger throttle bodies and manifolds will be available through the after market.

ravon said: first oil change at 10,000 miles, the cost, a princely £327 from my OPC. Hello and greeetings my friend! I am Ngoto Nbammbewe fro nigeeeria! I have 90 million dollars of america, in a banking account of, my cousin the late General Ungoto. Should you be so disposed I should be most happy to share this considerable sum with you. Please forward £1000 to my account for administrative distribution costs and I shall send you your share most immediate. May god shine on yourself and your fine family. Ngoto. What? Come on, it could work, he was gullible enough to pay Porsche!

I had a funny call with an OPC about oil changes. He said "It is £350 pounds for that". I said "How much does the oil cost?". He told me. I said "How long does it take?". He tried to avoid the question but then said it was about 15 mins. I fell off my chair at the effective hourly rate for the 18 year-old kid who is only allowed to do oil changes.

ORD said: I had a funny call with an OPC about oil changes. He said "It is £350 pounds for that". I said "How much does the oil cost?". He told me. I said "How long does it take?". He tried to avoid the question but then said it was about 15 mins. I fell off my chair at the effective hourly rate for the 18 year-old kid who is only allowed to do oil changes. The rest of the cost is the labour charge for dry fisting the customer.

sleep envy said: ORD said: I had a funny call with an OPC about oil changes. He said "It is £350 pounds for that". I said "How much does the oil cost?". He told me. I said "How long does it take?". He tried to avoid the question but then said it was about 15 mins. I fell off my chair at the effective hourly rate for the 18 year-old kid who is only allowed to do oil changes. The rest of the cost is the labour charge for dry fisting the customer. And then they charge for the unused oil on that one.

OPC's have HUGE overheads, both direct and indirect. The oil and the labour are probably the smallest elements of the charge!

Overheads for an OPC will be a fair bit higher than for, say, a Ford dealer and overheads per unit sold higher still. So expect dealer services to be a % of car retail price to see if you are being charged 'reasonably' and factor in service interval differences too and you'll probably see it is par for the course On a more practical level: - as brake fluid is optional you could opt out - be ready for them offering to service your aircon as yet another add on!

mollytherocker said: OPC's have HUGE overheads, both direct and indirect. The oil and the labour are probably the smallest elements of the charge! Aww bless them, those shiny suits cost money you know!

mollytherocker said: OPC's have HUGE overheads, both direct and indirect. The oil and the labour are probably the smallest elements of the charge! Yep. But, in any remotely well-functioning market, you would expect this kind of thing to make a relatively small contribution to overheads. The guy who does the oil changes would only, if not doing them, be sitting on his hands, so it is all gravy once the direct costs are covered.